cooltigger21 0 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 It wasn't long ago that Vanderbilt among others told Christian organizations they couldn't exclude people who didn't share their faith from leadership positions. None of them excluded people who were not their faith from being members just from leadership. For refusing to give in to the demands they were kicked off of campus. Vanderbilt is a private school, not an extension of the state. Private schools have much greater leeway in setting their own rules and aren't really relevant to this conversation. Well Vanderbilt is just one example. It goes on at public universities. as well. It is much more pervasive at public schools than any private school. Eventually these people will propose that churches cannot discriminate and must allow non believers to hold positions of authority. They will press to force them to perform wedding ceremonies for same sex couples and label sermons that speak against that as hate speech subject to government sanction. I realize that is not exactly the same thing but the people that inhabit one of these movements are also in the others as well.http://www.religionn...llege-campuses/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,483 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Common sense and reasonableness prevails: ASU: Players may voluntarily wear crosses on helmets Posted: Sep 17, 2014 7:12 PM CST Updated: Sep 18, 2014 8:04 AM CST Posted by Region 8 Newsdesk - bio | [email=news@kait8.com?body=http://www.kait8.com/story/26561591/arkansas-state-university-responds-to-letter-from-liberty-institute]email[/email] JONESBORO, AR (KAIT) - Arkansas State University has responded to the Liberty Institute after a football player said the school violated his free speech after the team altered a cross decal on the back of his helmet. The player said he feels the university censored the helmet sticker, which was shaped like a cross to honor two team members who recently passed away. The Liberty Institute said that ASU had until Wednesday to reinstate the stickers and publicly acknowledge that players have the right to express themselves or face more legal action. In a letter to the Liberty Institute from ASU System President Charles Welch, it is pointed out that the head coach, not the players designed the memorial for Markel Owens and Barry Weyer. Members of the coaching staff and 15 players, known as the head coach's "Leadership Council" approved the decals and decided to place them on the helmets of all players. The letter said that the decals were paid for by public funds from the team's equipment fund. Also contrary to the Liberty Institute's letter, the students themselves did not affix the stickers to the helmets. ASU's response stated that "all the remaining officially-designed and publicly-funded decals were affixed to the helmets by the team's equipment managers." The University's response said "The foregoing facts are in stark contrast to the misinformation contained in your letter stating that the 'students designed the helmet sticker,' that '[e]ach teammate affixed the sticker to his helmet,' and that the 'stickers were designed by the students on their own.'" The letter also said that all of this was done without the advice of counsel. The University argued that "Accordingly, when the school modified the stickers to avoid Establishment Clause concerns, no student speech was infringed." ASU concluded by saying that any player who wishes to voluntarily place an NCAA-compliant sticker on their helmet to memorialize their fallen colleagues will be able to do so. The letter said "The display of these stickers will be totally voluntary and completely independent of university involvement. The university will not procure the stickers, purchase them, or affix them to the helmets." According to NCAA guidelines, persons or events may be memorialized by an insignia not greater than 1.5 inches in diameter on the uniform or helmet. http://www.kait8.com/story/26561591/arkansas-state-university-responds-to-letter-from-liberty-institute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Common sense and reasonableness prevails: ASU: Players may voluntarily wear crosses on helmets Posted: Sep 17, 2014 7:12 PM CST Updated: Sep 18, 2014 8:04 AM CST Posted by Region 8 Newsdesk - bio | email JONESBORO, AR (KAIT) - Arkansas State University has responded to the Liberty Institute after a football player said the school violated his free speech after the team altered a cross decal on the back of his helmet. The player said he feels the university censored the helmet sticker, which was shaped like a cross to honor two team members who recently passed away. The Liberty Institute said that ASU had until Wednesday to reinstate the stickers and publicly acknowledge that players have the right to express themselves or face more legal action. In a letter to the Liberty Institute from ASU System President Charles Welch, it is pointed out that the head coach, not the players designed the memorial for Markel Owens and Barry Weyer. Members of the coaching staff and 15 players, known as the head coach's "Leadership Council" approved the decals and decided to place them on the helmets of all players. The letter said that the decals were paid for by public funds from the team's equipment fund. Also contrary to the Liberty Institute's letter, the students themselves did not affix the stickers to the helmets. ASU's response stated that "all the remaining officially-designed and publicly-funded decals were affixed to the helmets by the team's equipment managers." The University's response said "The foregoing facts are in stark contrast to the misinformation contained in your letter stating that the 'students designed the helmet sticker,' that '[e]ach teammate affixed the sticker to his helmet,' and that the 'stickers were designed by the students on their own.'" The letter also said that all of this was done without the advice of counsel. The University argued that "Accordingly, when the school modified the stickers to avoid Establishment Clause concerns, no student speech was infringed." ASU concluded by saying that any player who wishes to voluntarily place an NCAA-compliant sticker on their helmet to memorialize their fallen colleagues will be able to do so. The letter said "The display of these stickers will be totally voluntary and completely independent of university involvement. The university will not procure the stickers, purchase them, or affix them to the helmets." According to NCAA guidelines, persons or events may be memorialized by an insignia not greater than 1.5 inches in diameter on the uniform or helmet. http://www.kait8.com...berty-institute Im glad those kids can honor their fallen team mates. All the rest is just unfortunate noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURaptor 1,125 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 A player's # or a persons initials should suffice. I wonder if a Star of David or Islamic crescent moon would be greeted with the same enthusiasm as the cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 A player's # or a persons initials should suffice. I wonder if a Star of David or Islamic crescent moon would be greeted with the same enthusiasm as the cross. Probably so if they were Jewish or Islamic. My guess is, however, they were Christians but that's just a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooltigger21 0 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 A player's # or a persons initials should suffice. I wonder if a Star of David or Islamic crescent moon would be greeted with the same enthusiasm as the cross. If the ones being honored were of that faith then that would be fine to honor them in that way. I have absolutely no problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietfan 233 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 A player's # or a persons initials should suffice. I wonder if a Star of David or Islamic crescent moon would be greeted with the same enthusiasm as the cross. Probably so if they were Jewish or Islamic. My guess is, however, they were Christians but that's just a guess. I agree that the school's position would probably be the same in those cases (and would have to be, legally). I have serious doubts that a crescent of Islam or a Satanic pentagram would be equally as tolerated by many of the fans (or some of the posters in this forum).I think this final ruling on the part of the school is the best policy in terms of both constitutional law and NCAA regulations. I understand, however, that some may still feel religious symbols of any kind should not be attached to state property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueVue 177 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 A player's # or a persons initials should suffice. I wonder if a Star of David or Islamic crescent moon would be greeted with the same enthusiasm as the cross. Probably so if they were Jewish or Islamic. My guess is, however, they were Christians but that's just a guess. I agree that the school's position would probably be the same in those cases (and would have to be, legally). I have serious doubts that a crescent of Islam or a Satanic pentagram would be equally as tolerated by many of the fans (or some of the posters in this forum). Nice moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooltigger21 0 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 A player's # or a persons initials should suffice. I wonder if a Star of David or Islamic crescent moon would be greeted with the same enthusiasm as the cross. Probably so if they were Jewish or Islamic. My guess is, however, they were Christians but that's just a guess. I agree that the school's position would probably be the same in those cases (and would have to be, legally). I have serious doubts that a crescent of Islam or a Satanic pentagram would be equally as tolerated by many of the fans (or some of the posters in this forum). You assume an awful lot there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,379 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 A player's # or a persons initials should suffice. I wonder if a Star of David or Islamic crescent moon would be greeted with the same enthusiasm as the cross. Probably so if they were Jewish or Islamic. My guess is, however, they were Christians but that's just a guess. I agree that the school's position would probably be the same in those cases (and would have to be, legally). I have serious doubts that a crescent of Islam or a Satanic pentagram would be equally as tolerated by many of the fans (or some of the posters in this forum). You assume an awful lot there. Not really a stretch if you review some of the comments about Islam made by more than one poster. Perhaps they don't have the courage of their convictions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 A player's # or a persons initials should suffice. I wonder if a Star of David or Islamic crescent moon would be greeted with the same enthusiasm as the cross. Probably so if they were Jewish or Islamic. My guess is, however, they were Christians but that's just a guess. I agree that the school's position would probably be the same in those cases (and would have to be, legally). I have serious doubts that a crescent of Islam or a Satanic pentagram would be equally as tolerated by many of the fans (or some of the posters in this forum). You assume an awful lot there. They usually do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,379 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 A player's # or a persons initials should suffice. I wonder if a Star of David or Islamic crescent moon would be greeted with the same enthusiasm as the cross. Probably so if they were Jewish or Islamic. My guess is, however, they were Christians but that's just a guess. I agree that the school's position would probably be the same in those cases (and would have to be, legally). I have serious doubts that a crescent of Islam or a Satanic pentagram would be equally as tolerated by many of the fans (or some of the posters in this forum). You assume an awful lot there. They usually do. That's pretty funny when you have posters like Proud Tiger trying to associate liberalism with support for terrorists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 Common sense and reasonableness prevails: ASU: Players may voluntarily wear crosses on helmets Posted: Sep 17, 2014 7:12 PM CST Updated: Sep 18, 2014 8:04 AM CST Posted by Region 8 Newsdesk - bio | [email=news@kait8.com?body=http://www.kait8.com/story/26561591/arkansas-state-university-responds-to-letter-from-liberty-institute]email[/email] JONESBORO, AR (KAIT) - Arkansas State University has responded to the Liberty Institute after a football player said the school violated his free speech after the team altered a cross decal on the back of his helmet. The player said he feels the university censored the helmet sticker, which was shaped like a cross to honor two team members who recently passed away. The Liberty Institute said that ASU had until Wednesday to reinstate the stickers and publicly acknowledge that players have the right to express themselves or face more legal action. In a letter to the Liberty Institute from ASU System President Charles Welch, it is pointed out that the head coach, not the players designed the memorial for Markel Owens and Barry Weyer. Members of the coaching staff and 15 players, known as the head coach's "Leadership Council" approved the decals and decided to place them on the helmets of all players. The letter said that the decals were paid for by public funds from the team's equipment fund. Also contrary to the Liberty Institute's letter, the students themselves did not affix the stickers to the helmets. ASU's response stated that "all the remaining officially-designed and publicly-funded decals were affixed to the helmets by the team's equipment managers." The University's response said "The foregoing facts are in stark contrast to the misinformation contained in your letter stating that the 'students designed the helmet sticker,' that '[e]ach teammate affixed the sticker to his helmet,' and that the 'stickers were designed by the students on their own.'" The letter also said that all of this was done without the advice of counsel. The University argued that "Accordingly, when the school modified the stickers to avoid Establishment Clause concerns, no student speech was infringed." ASU concluded by saying that any player who wishes to voluntarily place an NCAA-compliant sticker on their helmet to memorialize their fallen colleagues will be able to do so. The letter said "The display of these stickers will be totally voluntary and completely independent of university involvement. The university will not procure the stickers, purchase them, or affix them to the helmets." According to NCAA guidelines, persons or events may be memorialized by an insignia not greater than 1.5 inches in diameter on the uniform or helmet. http://www.kait8.com/story/26561591/arkansas-state-university-responds-to-letter-from-liberty-institute Good, because God forbid anybody spread a message of hope, joy, peace, love, acceptance, Grace, forgiveness, goodwill, and provision. Can't have that happen.... Must spread, pornography, sex, abortion, murder, strife, suicide, drugs, alcohol, the breakdown of family,and such, because that stuff makes our society sooooooooo much better. O_o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietfan 233 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Good, because God forbid anybody spread a message of hope, joy, peace, love, acceptance, Grace, forgiveness, goodwill, and provision. Can't have that happen.... Must spread, pornography, sex, abortion, murder, strife, suicide, drugs, alcohol, the breakdown of family,and such, because that stuff makes our society sooooooooo much better. O_o Not quite sure how you translate a school's statement that, "as an agency of the state, we will neither support nor oppose a student's individual statement" into "Must spread, pornography, sex, abortion, murder, strife, suicide, drugs, alcohol, the breakdown of family,and such,..", but acknowledge your (misguided, in my opinion) right to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 Good, because God forbid anybody spread a message of hope, joy, peace, love, acceptance, Grace, forgiveness, goodwill, and provision. Can't have that happen.... Must spread, pornography, sex, abortion, murder, strife, suicide, drugs, alcohol, the breakdown of family,and such, because that stuff makes our society sooooooooo much better. O_o Not quite sure how you translate a school's statement that, "as an agency of the state, we will neither support nor oppose a student's individual statement" into "Must spread, pornography, sex, abortion, murder, strife, suicide, drugs, alcohol, the breakdown of family,and such,..", but acknowledge your (misguided, in my opinion) right to do so. I didn't. It was a general statement. Try asking me what I meant next time instead of just assuming something ok? Thanks so much.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,379 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Sometimes I think the problem on this forum is that people don't actually seem to understand what their posts imply. "Good, because God forbid anybody spread a message...." is not the way you introduce a "general statement". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 And..... You guys act like this forum is actually important. It is probably the LEAST IMPORTANT, and most annoying forum on this entire site because every single thread ends up the exact same way, in a circular argument that accomplishes absolutely nothing. I am trying to stop wasting my valuable time in this forum, but sometimes the idiocy that I happen to run across here is just too much to let go. Hopefully you will only see me on the football, basketball, and recruiting boards from now on, because this forum only contributes to the dumbing down of everyone who visits here. Good day and good night and WAR DAMN EAGLE MY BROTHERS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,483 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Door's over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 The cliff is over there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,483 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 The cliff is over there... I'm just saying, no one's tying you up and making you stay in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 Don't you dare leave Weegs. If you do you are a dang liberal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weegle777 78 Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 The cliff is over there... I'm just saying, no one's tying you up and making you stay in here. Remember, in the end, we are all Auburn men here. No need to be that way. Respect is earned, not given. War Eagle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AURaptor 1,125 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 A player's # or a persons initials should suffice. I wonder if a Star of David or Islamic crescent moon would be greeted with the same enthusiasm as the cross. If the ones being honored were of that faith then that would be fine to honor them in that way. I have absolutely no problem with that. Now flip it. Would there be as much an outcry from the critics were it NOT a cross ? Just askin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooltigger21 0 Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 A player's # or a persons initials should suffice. I wonder if a Star of David or Islamic crescent moon would be greeted with the same enthusiasm as the cross. If the ones being honored were of that faith then that would be fine to honor them in that way. I have absolutely no problem with that. Now flip it. Would there be as much an outcry from the critics were it NOT a cross ? Just askin'. I doubt it. The left has gone out of its way to appease Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,483 Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 The cliff is over there... I'm just saying, no one's tying you up and making you stay in here. Remember, in the end, we are all Auburn men here. No need to be that way. Respect is earned, not given. War Eagle. I'm not being any "way." But if you think the forum is that unimportant and useless, why bother with it? Those of us that enjoy talking about this stuff will continue to do so and those who don't aren't forced to endure it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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