For someone who really understands X's & O's

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

Need some help from someone who really knows X's and O's. (Specifically offensive line) Why are we struggling on the offensive line?? We are having an extremely difficult time running up the middle. Even against inferior opponents. The last 2 games our offensive line has had a significant size advantage on our opponents, but you can't tell by watching. I'm just confused because the O line was the ONE thing I had ZERO worries about coming into the season, even after losing Kozan. We have very highly recruited athletes at the position. I thought they would be one of the best units in the country. It's clear we aren't getting push like we did last year. Just want to know why it's happening from someone who really understands offensive line play.

Honest answer? Last year the interior runs between the tackles by Tre Mason often made the offensive line look better than it was. Mean that in the most serious way possible.

[tigermac 11]

I don't know if you have followed what Malzahn has done in the last decade but what we did last year was different. The run concepts were not the same as any other year he has been in college dating back to Arkansas minus a few principles we used in 2010 with Cam. If you think what we have done the last 16 games is similar to what he has ever done minus 2010 feel free to correct me where I'm wrong.

Just my two cents. It's not an x's and o's thing. It's simply execution. Too many missed (or non) blocks by the guys on the perimeter or just plain and simply getting beat 1 on 1. We have to win individual matchups more consistently. Also, our lineman aren't as agile and able to get up and get blocks on the second level.

We lost the best offensive lineman in the country, who we ran behind like crazy last year. We lost one of the best guards in the country in Kozan. We have talent, but we are not as good as we were in that unit as last year.

Also, Prosch is gone. He's starting in the NFL now. The best fullback in the country. Clearly, we were going to take a dip, and CAP and Nick don't have the same chemistry as Nick/Tre did. You add that to the fact that people have tape on Gus' offense now, and we were bound to regress a little. These things take time.

Are you serious? You telling me the 8 years that CGM has been in college coaching didn't show what Gus has up his genius sleeves, but last year did? Give me a break.

Back to the real planet earth...K st and La Tech were both stacking the line and holding to their assignments.

[Lowrider 0]

Need some help from someone who really knows X's and O's. (Specifically offensive line) Why are we struggling on the offensive line?? We are having an extremely difficult time running up the middle. Even against inferior opponents. The last 2 games our offensive line has had a significant size advantage on our opponents, but you can't tell by watching. I'm just confused because the O line was the ONE thing I had ZERO worries about coming into the season, even after losing Kozan. We have very highly recruited athletes at the position. I thought they would be one of the best units in the country. It's clear we aren't getting push like we did last year. Just want to know why it's happening from someone who really understands offensive line play.

Honest answer? Last year the interior runs between the tackles by Tre Mason often made the offensive line look better than it was. Mean that in the most serious way possible.

Mason was one of the best backs we have ever had at Auburn. If you go and watch his highlights from last season. On almost every good run he had he made a quick lateral cut in the backfield as soon as he got the ball. He picked his spot because he saw the running room. CAP is physical and has some speed but Mason had that running back vision to get his 5-6 yards against a stacked box.

[PowerOfDixieland 3,226]

If I'm a defensive coordinator (and I'm obviously not), I am scheming to stop the run. Marshall has always been significantly better running than throwing and until our offense can consistently prove successful through the air, we will continue to see defenses dare us to throw. Our offensive line has the potential to be very good, but the play calling and passing game execution is going to have to help them out.

[war eagle6 0]

Our offense is struggling in learning their assignments and getting off the ball. They are not aggressive enough, missing blocking assignments, and not pulling properly on trap type running plays.

In addition, Marshall is simply not leading the offense like last year, for whatever reason. You can notice a marked difference when Marshall is in and when Johnson is in. When the coaches let Johnson play his game, the entire offense seems to be more in sync. I am not sure why this is, but look at the series when Marshall is in verses when Jeremy is in.

I notice a marked difference too. We become a more dangerous team passing the ball but based on what I saw in the first half of Arkansas and JJ's work in this game, the running game is less effective.

Marshall is great at the read option, but our line is not executing in the read option game. Jeremy is much better running a pro style offense and this simply seems to fit this offensive unit better.

I love Nick Marshall, but if the offense continues to sputter, Gus needs to make the QB change. It is not a personal preference of mine of Johnson over Marshall, it is a statement of fact if you watch the film of which offense is more effective on a consistent basis.

Again, watch the film and decide for yourself. The offense was pretty much totally in sync on the first drive where Johnson came into this game (no incomplete passes and a TD), and it was true the first game of the year against Arkansas. The offense simply clicks better under Johnson and Johnson is a much more accurate passer.

The offense does not "click better", it does some things differently.

People are having some selective memory on JJ's Arkansas performance. Yes, he came out on fire and we scored 21 pts with him lacing it in there. Then in the 2nd quarter we sputtered:

3 plays, 8 yards, PUNT

3 plays, 4 yards, PUNT

8 plays, 36 yards, end of half at our 40 yard line

Even today, he had one nice drive that ended with a wobbly TD pass that Uzomah made a nice grab on (somewhat like the Bray grab from Marshall some wish to write off). Next drive, 5 plays for 19 yards and a turnover on downs. It's not like we were suddenly lighting the world on fire with JJ in there.

The bottom line is this: QB play is not the real problem. It is the line and it won't get consistently better no matter who is in there until that gets solved. Period.

Hey now, don't be using logic and facts. That's uncalled for. 15 yard penalty for idiot baiting :)/>

Yep, I don't see the JJ fans coming back from this. Before I get labeled a JJ hater, let me clearly say this, I respect our starting qb, whomever Gus decides is our best option to win, which just happens to be NM

[AUFAN78 3,943]

If I'm a defensive coordinator (and I'm obviously not), I am scheming to stop the run. Marshall has always been significantly better running than throwing and until our offense can consistently prove successful through the air, we will continue to see defenses dare us to throw. Our offensive line has the potential to be very good, but the play calling and passing game execution is going to have to help them out.

Bingo

[CCTAU 3,355]

The chemistry between NM and Tre was phenomenal. There was a mesh between them every play. There is zero mesh with CAP or Grant. This makes the handoff very noticable and slows down the attack toward the line. As it sits, our handoffs are more like an I formation than a zone read. This hid a lot of o-line issues last season. If NM cannot create a mesh with one of our backs, then the zone read is dead and he is not the ideal solution. But even without great chemistry In the backfield, a better short passing game will open up the run. Last year we got away with being one dimensional. This year I just don't see it being as successful at this point.

I see no issue with giving JJ a series or two each game. Especially in the first half. NM is a winner, but he's not a winner on his own. Let's help him out a bit by shaking the defense up every now an then.

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

Need some help from someone who really knows X's and O's. (Specifically offensive line) Why are we struggling on the offensive line?? We are having an extremely difficult time running up the middle. Even against inferior opponents. The last 2 games our offensive line has had a significant size advantage on our opponents, but you can't tell by watching. I'm just confused because the O line was the ONE thing I had ZERO worries about coming into the season, even after losing Kozan. We have very highly recruited athletes at the position. I thought they would be one of the best units in the country. It's clear we aren't getting push like we did last year. Just want to know why it's happening from someone who really understands offensive line play.

Honest answer? Last year the interior runs between the tackles by Tre Mason often made the offensive line look better than it was. Mean that in the most serious way possible.

Mason was one of the best backs we have ever had at Auburn. If you go and watch his highlights from last season. On almost every good run he had he made a quick lateral cut in the backfield as soon as he got the ball. He picked his spot because he saw the running room. CAP is physical and has some speed but Mason had that running back vision to get his 5-6 yards against a stacked box.

It seems to be characteristic of Malzahn's offenses at AU that it takes a while for him to figure out how to best use the new/different tools each year. Thing is...he does generally figure it out.

Mason was one of the best I have ever seen in college/at AU when it comes to making a little something (2,3,4 yards) out of what appears to be nothing at all. This group of Tigers still seems to be trying to figure that out. My best advice would be stop trying to be the offense of Marshall and Mason last season and work on what we are now. Of course I am 100% sure (no sarcasm) that's exactly what this staff is trying to do.

[AuburnArch13 185]

Need some help from someone who really knows X's and O's. (Specifically offensive line) Why are we struggling on the offensive line?? We are having an extremely difficult time running up the middle. Even against inferior opponents. The last 2 games our offensive line has had a significant size advantage on our opponents, but you can't tell by watching. I'm just confused because the O line was the ONE thing I had ZERO worries about coming into the season, even after losing Kozan. We have very highly recruited athletes at the position. I thought they would be one of the best units in the country. It's clear we aren't getting push like we did last year. Just want to know why it's happening from someone who really understands offensive line play.

Honest answer? Last year the interior runs between the tackles by Tre Mason often made the offensive line look better than it was. Mean that in the most serious way possible.

Mason was one of the best backs we have ever had at Auburn. If you go and watch his highlights from last season. On almost every good run he had he made a quick lateral cut in the backfield as soon as he got the ball. He picked his spot because he saw the running room. CAP is physical and has some speed but Mason had that running back vision to get his 5-6 yards against a stacked box.

It seems to be characteristic of Malzahn's offenses at AU that it takes a while for him to figure out how to best use the new/different tools each year. Thing is...he does generally figure it out.

Mason was one of the best I have ever seen in college/at AU when it comes to making a little something (2,3,4 yards) out of what appears to be nothing at all. This group of Tigers still seems to be trying to figure that out. My best advice would be stop trying to be the offense of Marshall and Mason last season and work on what we are now. Of course I am 100% sure (no sarcasm) that's exactly what this staff is trying to do.

That's been the biggest difference to me. 2nd and nine was something we almost never said last season, and it's really what made the offense so unstoppable. We are still getting the explosive runs we did last year, but last year our "bad runs" still netted about 3 yards, whereas this year they've really bogged down the offense. Whether that is CAP not being as slippery as Tre, the lack of Jay, O-line issues, or some combination of the 3, I'm not sure.

[TeBoneAU 89]

Its definitely no secret by now that this year offense is not going to perform like last year offense. As they have been discuss already there are 2 issues right now causing the problems in my observations. First the O-line personnel lost of Robinson and Kozan has been big so far. Why because of the lack of chemistry and consistency with the blocking scheme from this year line. This is causing a ripple effect with Nick and Payne...who is having their own chemistry issue. Nick doesn't look as effective in hiding that ball in the RB gut so the defense aren't guessing as much where the ball is going. just my .02

[80Tiger 904]

Google scrape exchange and bear double eagle fronts. Seeing a lot of that. Defenses are catching up to newer concepts.

I would think that if teams give us the double eagle front that play action passes would be almost unstoppable, especially to Duke where he creates serious match up problems.

[corchjay 5,311]

A couple things I've noticed...

Most people think we are running a ton of zone read which we aren't like we were last year. Most of the plays are designed gives or keeps this year. Some one earlier mentioned the mesh point between Nick and Tre last year and they were amazing at it. Nick and CAP do not have that chemistry and not sure they ever will. I think Nice and Corey run more zone read when he's the primary back. Couple things to look for to notice we are just a give or an actual zone read. When we do a read Nick will do a hop step with the ball in the belly of the running back. If it's a give or a fake give with a keeper designed you don't have that hop step. So the people that think we are running about 1 out of 3 plays being zone read are off on their numbers. It's actually probably close to about 10 times a game or about 1 out 8 plays or so.

Another issue in the run game is we don't seem to have that 1 cut back... a one cut back doesn't dance, he hits the hole and either does a jump move or a plant move while in the hole. CAP is looking for daylight every play and not reading his blocks very well. It's gonna be stacked in there, read the block get to the back side of the guard or center where ever the hole was called for and hit that crease then in the hole make your 1 cut move to not get blown up by a line backer. Tre was incredibly within the hole using his 1 cut move plus he didn't mind the contact and would fall for that extra yard when he was hit after a 2-3 yard gain. Makes a big difference to get hit in the hole and be sitting at 2nd down and 6 as opposed to looking for open space and dancing and getting dropped for 1 yard gain or 1 yard loss making it 2nd and 9 or 11.

On top of that Kozan and Robinson dominated the left side of the line. We are essentially stalemating in that area right now. Not playing bad but not totally dominant.

[AU64 10,122]

On top of that Kozan and Robinson dominated the left side of the line. We are essentially stalemating in that area right now. Not playing bad but not totally dominant.

IMO that's about 80% of our problem....we got stuffed on the left side all afternoon...maybe all season for all I know. It is not like it was last year...and of course, check some old video and watch Kozan pull out and then drill a LB on the right side when the play went that way.

[mrdude 3]

Watching the replay this morning, and the thing I've noticed about the first half was that La Tech had their nickelback keying on the run the entire time. If it was a running down he was blitzing almost all the time, and even on passes you could tell he was keying on the run first and had safety help behind him. If this guy was not blocked he was typically able to disrupt the play. For the most part La Tech did a great job of containing the weakside, though Nick had some good runs when they didn't. La Tech didn't always line up with 8 in the box, but the way that they were aggressively playing the run was effectively giving them a numbers advantage, and that's hard to block. La Tech and K State also emphasized maintaining the edges, making it more difficult to break to the outside or run sweeps. One last think I've noticed La Tech doing is have the weakside linebacker key on Nick allowing the other linebackers to focus on the running back. We've often tried to take advantage of linebackers getting confused over who has the ball but this has allowed them to stay focused on one person and avoid falling for misdirection. There were a few times where there have been missed assignments by our OL, and quite a few times where our OL hasn't been able to get to the second level, but that's only part of it.

The challenge is how to do we adjust to what these defenses are doing. If teams keep blitzing their nickelback we need to have our slot receiver run a zero route. The nickel will jump for the play action and our receiver will be wide open. Quite often when we ran play action we were running vertical routes so the safety was able to pick up our slot receiver. This should force their nickelback to be less agressive and more blockable. I think we could also run the inverted veer more often. Nick is no Cam, but this play has been effective with him running up the middle. With the weakside linebacker playing outside contain and the strong side aggressively playing the outside sweeps the middle of the field has been open.

[mrdude 3]

Also wanted to add that we made a few adjustments to having the nickel blitzing by having Fulse pick him up and that seems to have been pretty effective.

[PatBoCamRob 30]

You know where we were really slipping in 2012 was physicality. Meaning both strength and willingness to hit. Toward the beginning of the season, a friend of mine who is still in school said one of our starters was often out at night. Some of the stills from yesterday in sports media show less than ideal muscle tone. Are other readers seeing/hearing this? And, if it's even the case, what can be done to correct this as we head into the meat of our schedule?

[maxwere 82]

Google scrape exchange and bear double eagle fronts. Seeing a lot of that. Defenses are catching up to newer concepts.

I would think that if teams give us the double eagle front that play action passes would be almost unstoppable, especially to Duke where he creates serious match up problems.

Bingo! Why Marshall we'd be talking about a 400 yd pass performance at Ksu were it not drops and deflects. We've got to improve our constraints from a coaching perspective. Got to scheme better develop offensive identity... But I think those guys will get it done.

[mrdude 3]

We've got to improve our constraints from a coaching perspective.

Agreed, there were plenty of options to run constraint plays to make the defense have to punish the defense for their keys, yet we rarely did. There were some times that we adjusted to what they were doing, but we didn't really take advantage as much as we could have.

[Randman5000 4,235]

There are a couple of things going on here. First and foremost is a numbers problem. There are only 5 lineman and teams are putting 8 in the box. 5 can't block 8. Last year it didn't matter because Prosch took his man out and Mason had a first step quick enough to get through the crease that was there. He was also very good at making his lateral move in the backfield to let the crease open up. Mason has outstanding vision. CAP is a good back but he is not on Mason's level. There are times when he sees things but often he is not patient enough to find the crease. Neither of our feature backs are a replacement for Mason and Fulse is not a replacement for Prosch. The oline can only do so much .

I think the problem is he's too patient. He likes to wait for daylight instead of hitting a crease. And when edge rushers meet him in the backfield, he's having to dance and slow him down before he's able to pick up speed.

[cooltigger21 0]

You know where we were really slipping in 2012 was physicality. Meaning both strength and willingness to hit. Toward the beginning of the season, a friend of mine who is still in school said one of our starters was often out at night. Some of the stills from yesterday in sports media show less than ideal muscle tone. Are other readers seeing/hearing this? And, if it's even the case, what can be done to correct this as we head into the meat of our schedule?

If that is the case then there is really not much to be done during the course of the season. That is what the offseason is for.

[lutzintheredzone 0]

I simply blame playcalling. Who we fooling they run same dive play with Payne up the gut. Run same sweep play with Grant.Were not using much pull blocking when we do we get yards,re watch game. Their putting 8 in box and spying safties. That leaves guys unblocked and when your running two run plays,your not getting fooled.The blocking was actually fine, I just rewatched game. We actually played better when Miller got hurt. The playcalling sucks where is the playaction rolling Nick out for pass run option. Where is the wrap around delayed handoff, cross buck sweep,reverse,double reverse,counter plays,sweep pitch play with grant instead of the in motion jet sweep which is so predictable.They run that weak option pitch. We need to pass to open up the run duh. Marshall arm isnt Johnsons arm,secondaries arent scared,Marshall misses wide open td strikes.Nick isnt a QB he is an athlete. Personally Johnson my QB,Marshall would be my wildcat. Marshall looks slower,he is thinking too much. He not playing loose. Jeremy Johnson plays loose,why yes offense looked better when he was in. The first possession was with starting line,then subs after that.Coaches from day 1 needed to mix in Peyton as short down and goal line back and Thomas to rotate with Grant. Payne gotta stop running with head down so he can look for a hole,he trying to run people over. Hes not looking up till he hits second level. In my opinon o line needs to be Robinson,Smith,Dismukes,Slade,Young. Play Braden Smith at LG,which what he played in hs and all 5 guys at their normal postion from last year. Danzey was strong at LG,when Young went to RT,once Miller went down. I think Kamyrn Pettaway should be considered for H Back, although were in the world is the wheel route to him.

[lutzintheredzone 0]

Coleman not Robinson

[AuburnNTexas 7,197]

I am going to repeat what many have said to re-enforce a few points. O-Line is a unit, If one guy makes a great block but another misses a block I am including the H_back when it comes to blocking the play doesn't run. A lot of people have forgotten where Tre got hit in backfield and still gained 3-4 yards on his own. This year when our backs get hit in the backfield they usually go down as do most backs in the country.

If you count the H-Back as part of the O-Line we have lost 1/2 of the O-Line Prosch, Robinson (1st Round NFL Draft), and Kozan (All Freshman SEC guard). That is a lot of talent and cohesiveness to replace. I think it is a tossup as to who we miss most Prosch or Kozan as neither player replacing them is as good as them at this time. Given time this O-line will get better. Even though Braden Smith has been practicing at left tackle I would not be surprised to see him at left guard before the season is over as that is where I think he could help us the most.

La Tech did stack the box so we should have adjusted early and thrown on first down. K-State did not stack the box but they creatively ran run blitz's with outside linebackers tight ends and H-Backs didn't react well so we had pressure in backfield before play had a chance to develop. Also in K-State game Slade just got beat a few times. I noticed that during the game. I didn't re-watch and analyze the game so I can't say if other O-Line men just got beat.

The few times we threw to a RB out of the backfield it was very successful as there is nobody there to cover RB with some of the defensive schemes we are seeing. JJ was successful in 1st Quarter against Arkansas as they were stacking the box trying to stop the run. When the D adjusted to stop the pass we were not allowing JJ to run the read Option so 2nd quarter was less successful.

Bottom line without a special back like Tre and without the Chemistry that last years O-Line had with Robinson, Kozan and Prosch the O-Line Unit will need to develop and the coaches will need to help them by adjusting offense to take advantage of what D is trying to stop.

As others have said it takes time for coaches to make the required adjustments. Hopefully we will start to see some changes and improvements against LSU.

[lutzintheredzone 0]

Throw the ball,i was getting bored at times watching big 10 run same play up the middle

screen passes work great when box stacked to the running backs

Also they need to put in Jaylon Denson and Melvin Ray on run plays theyre the best blocking recievers we have.

[WDavE 332]

I think we miss Prosch more then anyone else from last years team.

The H-back is responsible for picking up the first first defensive guy coming to make the play. Right now, we are not good at it. If you look our current starter struggles to hold blocks on DE's and LB's. Prosch use to man-handle them. Sometimes he would make two blocks on the same play.

When lead blocking outside, we currently alot of times leave the CB to pick up the coming safety. CB makes the play! Several times we pick up neither.

Having said that! This is a thankless job and it takes a special kind of mindset. Prosch had it...........