Who should be the starting QB?

[DAG 34,034]

27 minutes ago, BlueFrogg said:

Dang I guess if he had just gotten the 61% Cam had in JUCO...

http://www.njcaa.org/sports/fball/2009-10/teams/BlinnCollege/players/CameronNewton.html

next.

 

 

Well let's see. 61% is better than 58%, right? Not to mention Cam threw the ball 200 more times than JF3 was ever was allowed to do. Imagine what JF3 completion rate would be, if he attempted 300 passes in a season. 22-5 TD/Int. Pretty dang good. JF3 barely passed and couldn't complete 60% of his passes.

 

Not to mention CN was averaging over 200 passing yards per game. Did JF3 ever pass for over 200 yards in any game that he played in?

Next.

[Malcolm_FleX48 1,869]

41 minutes ago, BlueFrogg said:

You make good points. But what if Gus gave him no option? I believe he was told "you will hand the ball off". He needs to be given some reps tonight so the AU faithful can see for themselves.

I'm not sure where people came up with the idea that when coaches call a ZR it's really a straight handoff. The motions for a ZR handoff and a straight handoff in our offense are clear. These plays are pre-called and if it is a ZR play, the QB has FULL discretion to make the read and keep or pull. The only thing that is instructed pre-ZR call is whether or not the QB can throw a Run-Pass Option pass in addition to ZR responsibility.

ZR: Receives the snap and immediately turns to face field-side or backside depending on the read. QB throws hips backwards, eyes to the backside end to hopefully freeze or spot the crash. Ball is open and exposed with arms fully extended to allow for a "Quick Snapping" pullback motion that draws the defender's eyes on the arms rather than the ball itself. QB's feet are planted rather than moving towards the RB to get a cleaner handoff. The whole motion is slower and MUCH more delayed to create time for the backside end to freeze and make a decision that can be read, also gives time for zone blocks to develop and defenders to declare their zones. H-Back also will arc to take the backside linebacker to prevent a responsibility exchange if the backer wants to scrape to allow the DE to crash. A clear indicator of the ZR is that the backside DE will be UNBLOCKED completely, creating the aesthetic that there is a hole being opened to create space. 

Ex - JFIII should have made a quicker read and took the ball himself, normally the end would be in a position to tackle them both or to adjust to who to tackle. He made a late tackle, and Kerryon takes JFIII's run assignment himself bouncing it outside.

 

 Ex - Again, here JFIII should have ran it. Though the end hesitates later, he is still too far up field and you can see that should JFIII pull it, he has the speed to beat the end to the edge and has the bucking receiver coming backside to pick up the block on the nickel.

 

Handoff: The overall motion is much quicker and snappier as the QB will step either backwards or laterally towards the running back to accelerate the motion. The overall mesh is held for a much shorter duration, too short to give any defenders time to actually make a decision or for the QB to actually get a read. This is because the play isn't set up for a read and is rather just a run in and of itself which means is going to be a quick hitting play. A key telltale of a called run is there is no man left unblocked deliberately, backside tackle will deliver a seal block to prevent the play from being blown up through the back side because the QB doesn't have to pull the ball and run that way to replace.

Ex- Notice JJ's mechanics. This is a called handoff and smartly done since JJ isn't a runner. 

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can clearly see that the play JFIII had was indeed a ZR by those criteria. It's impossible to pre-designate what will happen with a ZR successfully because you don't know what that unblocked DE will do and that shapes the play completely. JFIII Should have pulled it, since the DE crashed, however, Kerryon luckily, and possibly unintentionally took the ball where JFIII was going to go should he have kept it due to the DE already being back there in their laps. On both of the plays, you can tell that Kerryon's original designation is to take the ball through the playside A gap as you see the double team to work up blocks by the center and the backside guard as they zone step to their assignments. As an ILB, we have what are known as triangle reads which tell you where the play is supposed to go. Double teams and or combo blocks in the A indicate an inside run that's either a dive or an at run. This is just for the handoff however, reading that the end was unblocked tells you that they have the option of the QB to run the ball where the backside end is coming from should he vacate and not stay home as Clemson started doing later.

[weathergeakal 283]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

Yes juco football is not in the same stratosphere as D-1 football. In fact him throwing 58 % in juco is pretty bad. Also based on the fact that he has yet to gain the coaches confidence .

 

You sound silly.

 

1 hour ago, BlueFrogg said:

This is called data, I use my eyeballs and brain to form analysis from it. Put me back on your ignore list if you don't like my threads. And no, Gus telling me Sean White is the best QB does not convince me, it makes me lean farther towards JFIII.

 

JFIII 58% last year

http://emccathletics.com/sports/fball/2015-16/bios/franklin_iii_john_8tul?view=splits&pos=qb

Sean White 58% last year

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/sean-white-3.html

how do I add you to my ignore list? 

You can look at data all day but there is other aspects then data. Yes JF3 threw 58% but if you compare that to Sean's 58% Sean's is better. You have to factor in the strength of the teams you play. D1 over JUCO teams. Crowd Noise. D1 over JUCO. Home or away. Plus how many passing attempts they have. Sean had about 30 more attempts then JF3.

Now JF3 played in more games then SW. Consider too that Sean was #1 for most of the season. JF3 played late in games. JF3 wasn't recruited as a QB (even though i do think that is where he is best) Sean was. You could also factor in SW was hurt for 3 1/2 games that he played in and JF3 was not.

These were EMCC results last season

Result	Time/Status	Links
Aug. 27	Southwest Mississippi Community College		W, 69-20	Final	Video Preview  Box Score Recap
Sep. 3	at Copiah-Lincoln Community College		L, 31-24	Final - OT	Video Preview  Box Score Recap
Sep. 10	Coahoma Community College *		W, 69-0	Final	Video Preview  Box Score Recap
Sep. 17	at Northeast Mississippi Community College *		W, 56-7	Final	Preview Box Score  Recap
Sep. 26	Itawamba Community College *		W, 48-24	Final	Video Preview  Box Score Recap
Oct. 1	at Jones County Junior College		W, 49-7	Final	Video Preview  Box Score Recap
Oct. 8	at Holmes Community College *	Faculty/Staff Appreciation & High School Night	W, 44-28	Final	Preview Box Score  Recap
Oct. 15	Northwest Mississippi Community College *		W, 49-16	Final	Video Preview  Box Score Recap
Oct. 22	at Mississippi Delta Community College *		W, 48-0	F

 

They scored 44+ points in every game except one. Which was there best opponent of the year by far.

So for JF3 to be a "D1 Passer" and throw 58%? Thats ugly. 

Here is Auburn's results from last season. 

G	Date	Time	Day	School		Opponent	Conf		Pts	Opp	W	L	Streak	TV	Notes
1	Sep 5, 2015	2:00 PM	Sat	(6) Auburn	N	Louisville	ACC	W	31	24	1	0	W 1
2	Sep 12, 2015	12:00 PM	Sat	(6) Auburn		Jacksonville State	Non-Major	W	27	20	2	0	W 2
3	Sep 19, 2015	3:30 PM	Sat	(18) Auburn	@	(13) Louisiana State	SEC	L	21	45	2	1	L 1
4	Sep 26, 2015	7:30 PM	Sat	Auburn		Mississippi State	SEC	L	9	17	2	2	L 2
5	Oct 3, 2015	4:00 PM	Sat	Auburn		San Jose State	MWC	W	35	21	3	2	W 1
6	Oct 15, 2015	7:00 PM	Thu	Auburn	@	Kentucky	SEC	W	30	27	4	2	W 2
7	Oct 24, 2015	12:00 PM	Sat	Auburn	@	Arkansas	SEC	L	46	54	4	3	L 1
8	Oct 31, 2015	12:00 PM	Sat	Auburn		(19) Mississippi	SEC	L	19	27	4	4	L 2
9	Nov 7, 2015	7:30 PM	Sat	Auburn	@	(25) Texas A&M	SEC	W	26	10	5	4	W 1
10	Nov 14, 2015	12:00 PM	Sat	Auburn		Georgia	SEC	L	13	20	5	5	L 1
11	Nov 21, 2015	4:00 PM	Sat	Auburn		Idaho	Sun Belt	W	56	34	6	5	W 1
12	Nov 28, 2015	3:30 PM	Sat	Auburn		(2) Alabama	SEC	L	13	29	6	6	L 1
13	Dec 30, 2015	12:00 PM	Wed	Auburn	N	Memphis	American	W	31	10	7	6	W 1		Birmingham Bowl (Birmingham, AL)

 

Sean threw 58% against the best in the country.

To compare to the "best QB in the country" 

Deshaun Watson only threw 67%.

But he had 491 attempts almost 400 more than JF3. 

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/deshaun-watson-1.html

 

[gr82be 14,507]

I don't get some of the people who post on here. Some people are never satisfied. You didn't like the QB rotation last week? Gus said he is through with that. You want him to settle on a starter.? He did with White. Because your favorite was not selected Gus must have made the wrong choice. I have seen zero evidence that JF3 should be the starter at this point. I don't think White is a world beater by any means at this time but if no other quarterback can separate themselves from him by being CLEARLY better then Sean should be the guy. Actually Sean, by not clearly separating himself, has not made me feel much better but the bottom line is that the decision has been made. Get on board and be an Auburn fan or get off. Either way this season will go on with or without some of you. This is not intended for the usual critique after each game. I've been guilty of that myself. It's the criticism that just never stops by a certain few that makes me wonder why they even follow college football. I hope for their sake that at least home life or work is going well for them because football doesn't seem to bring them any happiness. Flame away if you must. 

[weathergeakal 283]

3 minutes ago, gr82be said:

 I have seen zero evidence that JF3 should be the starter at this point.

This i why i think he needs playtime to show if he can or cant do it.

[bigbird 60,580]

1 minute ago, weathergeakal said:

This i why i think he needs playtime to show if he can or cant do it.

He has shown the coaches that he shouldn't.  That's what practice is for. A game is not the place for auditions.

[Charhair 345]

4 minutes ago, weathergeakal said:

This i why i think he needs playtime to show if he can or cant do it.

If the coaches know he can't do it right now, why throw him in and hurt his confidence? To prove to the fans he can't do it? We saw how they went with Jason Smith in the bowl game 

[weathergeakal 283]

4 minutes ago, bigbird said:

He has shown the coaches that he shouldn't.  That's what practice is for. A game is not the place for auditions.

Didnt gus say JF3 was going to get playing time? and he is 2 over JJ?

A game isnt for auditions i agree but a game is better then practice. IF we get by 28 or more whats wrong with putting JF3 in to get better?o

[weathergeakal 283]

2 minutes ago, Charhair said:

If the coaches know he can't do it right now, why throw him in and hurt his confidence? To prove to the fans he can't do it? We saw how they went with Jason Smith in the bowl game 

Then dont do it. But gus has said JF3 is getting playtime so thats not the case.

[bigbird 60,580]

11 minutes ago, weathergeakal said:

Didnt gus say JF3 was going to get playing time? and he is 2 over JJ?

A game isnt for auditions i agree but a game is better then practice. IF we get by 28 or more whats wrong with putting JF3 in to get better?o

I believe he is #2 because JJ showed what he does.  JF3 also showed have can be dangerous as a change of pace/package player. He is, however, not a starting QB 

[weathergeakal 283]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

I believe he is #2 because JJ showed what he does.  JF3 also showed have can be dangerous as a change of pace/package player. He is, however, not a starting QB 

No,not ATM.

[Charhair 345]

34 minutes ago, weathergeakal said:

Then dont do it. But gus has said JF3 is getting playtime so thats not the case.

Playing time most likely equates to the "wildcat" role and possibly mop up duty. 

It's no longer just a rumor or speculation that jf3's throwing ability is suspect, it's pretty much common knowledge at this point.

the "lets just take our chances and let woody/jf3 take over the offense because we suck" is not very good logic when it comes to coaching a football team, especially one with as much talent as ours. 

If we can't throw the ball down field our offense will be very similar to what we saw last year after SW was injured. No matter who the QB is. Sure, the runs may be more effective with jf3 than JJ but teams can still stack the box against it.

based off jf3's performance in the Clemson game, I'm not sure how capable he is of running the zone read either. I hate to knock the dude so much cause he's obviously got a bunch of potential but he was even making the wrong reads for running plays. He likely scores at least one (probably two) touchdowns against Clemson if he keeps it instead of handing off to KJ. Maybe that was his first game jitters, hopefully it was. 

But IMO the thing jf3 is missing is more time to get used to the offense and more QB coaching. Maybe he'll never succeed at QB, maybe he'll be the next Nick Marshall for us. 

I do believe we'll see him get plenty of reps against arky state, especially running the zone read, to see if he can get the zone read down. I also believe we will continue to see him take snaps throughout the season against SEC opponents even with SW being the starter. But I believe he will be limited and will not throw down field very often. If he does,'I'm guessing it'll be one of the plays designed to throw a team off.

I do not believe the solution to helping him grow as a player is to let him take over the offense, is what I'm getting at.

[CCTAU 3,355]

I think we should give JJ6 a chance. All he needs is a whole game practicing the read option and he is tall enough to throw the ball over the LBs. He just needs a little more repetition to keep from throwing it to the other team!

[cole256 17,084]

1 hour ago, Charhair said:

Playing time most likely equates to the "wildcat" role and possibly mop up duty. 

It's no longer just a rumor or speculation that jf3's throwing ability is suspect, it's pretty much common knowledge at this point.

the "lets just take our chances and let woody/jf3 take over the offense because we suck" is not very good logic when it comes to coaching a football team, especially one with as much talent as ours. 

If we can't throw the ball down field our offense will be very similar to what we saw last year after SW was injured. No matter who the QB is. Sure, the runs may be more effective with jf3 than JJ but teams can still stack the box against it.

based off jf3's performance in the Clemson game, I'm not sure how capable he is of running the zone read either. I hate to knock the dude so much cause he's obviously got a bunch of potential but he was even making the wrong reads for running plays. He likely scores at least one (probably two) touchdowns against Clemson if he keeps it instead of handing off to KJ. Maybe that was his first game jitters, hopefully it was. 

But IMO the thing jf3 is missing is more time to get used to the offense and more QB coaching. Maybe he'll never succeed at QB, maybe he'll be the next Nick Marshall for us. 

I do believe we'll see him get plenty of reps against arky state, especially running the zone read, to see if he can get the zone read down. I also believe we will continue to see him take snaps throughout the season against SEC opponents even with SW being the starter. But I believe he will be limited and will not throw down field very often. If he does,'I'm guessing it'll be one of the plays designed to throw a team off.

I do not believe the solution to helping him grow as a player is to let him take over the offense, is what I'm getting at.

If we haven't seen jf3 play then all things said about jf3 is speculation. And as far as the read option if we giving everybody else a pass then I don't think we should really be on him about making reads either

[Charhair 345]

16 minutes ago, cole256 said:

If we haven't seen jf3 play then all things said about jf3 is speculation. And as far as the read option if we giving everybody else a pass then I don't think we should really be on him about making reads either

We haven't seen him in game a lot but there is plenty of footage and info from insiders saying the same. 

Who else are we giving a pass? I don't think JJ and SW's specialty is running as compared to that being JF3's strength. Just like how most would be quicker to criticize SW's accuracy/arm than they would be JF3/NM's. 

[cole256 17,084]

SW frankly haven't been that accurate. But I thought you were using the high screen throw as evidence of saying he can't throw and that made me think well everybody had bad plays that game. 

My thought is we give them benefit of the doubt to brag on them let's give them a little room on bad stuff too, especially when a game plan was so bad the coach has to come out and admit to it. 

[SouthGATiger 64]

Well I guess this discussion is over.....SW is it.

[bigbird 60,580]

I can hear blue crying as I type.

[BlueFrogg 11]

29 minutes ago, SouthGATiger said:

Well I guess this discussion is over.....SW is it.

SW has had a great game and deserves credit. I would like to see this caliber of play against a quality opponent and hope we see it. WDE

[Guest WarEagleSteve]

Gee Grenouille for starting QB. He won the Bourbon Bowl, he can win an SEC title. 

[tiger88 934]

7 hours ago, CCTAU said:

I think we should give JJ6 a chance. All he needs is a whole game practicing the read option and he is tall enough to throw the ball over the LBs. He just needs a little more repetition to keep from throwing it to the other team!

They see me trollin, they hatin.

[augolf1716 21,434]

Enough is enough