Trump's Proposed Travel Ban----Reconsider?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

In light of the attack in Manchester should opponents of Trump's proposed travel ban reconsider. Herman Cain thinks so. I wouldn't call them stupid as Cain does.......just not realistically facing the threat.

http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/05/23/ariana-grande-attack-donald-trump-travel-ban-critics-stupid-herman-cain-says/

[homersapien 11,425]

We should ban Brits? 

[TexasTiger 12,992]

38 minutes ago, homersapien said:

We should ban Brits? 

 No more Rolling Stones concerts.

[alexava 6,973]

10 hours ago, homersapien said:

We should ban Brits? 

That moment when someone thinks they made a point but actually just totally counter their point and don't realize it?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

52 minutes ago, alexava said:

That moment when someone thinks they made a point but actually just totally counter their point and don't realize it?

Trump never  proposed banning Brits. Just another case of not being able to express an opinion on the real question.

[alexava 6,973]

1 hour ago, Proud Tiger said:

Trump never  proposed banning Brits. Just another case of not being able to express an opinion on the real question.

?

[SaturdayGT 719]

LOL,  Did you really expect anything else when starting this thread in this forum PT? 

[AUDub 11,167]

Travel ban would not have prevented this. The perp was born in England. 

[I_M4_AU 7,944]

3 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

Travel ban would not have prevented this. The perp was born in England. 

Your thought process is myopic. It very well could prevent this from happening in 22 years.

[TexasTiger 12,992]

8 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Your thought process is myopic. It very well could prevent this from happening in 22 years.

One thing America has done much better than Europe is having immigrants "buy in" to our society/culture, even as immigrants retain elements of their original culture.

[SaturdayGT 719]

14 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

Travel ban would not have prevented this. The perp was born in England. 

  I only heard a bitm but I thought he was traveling back and forth to Libya or Tunisia?...Regardless, even if that's wrong, this stuff is not going to stop. Its being stemmed from several countries who looking to do these kinds of things. I think we need to be very cautious in letting these people come and go into our countries. If a ban is needed to figure things out, or find a more secure way of vetting people, then so be it. It doesn't make us bad people to want that, that all lies on the terrorist organizations.

[homersapien 11,425]

36 minutes ago, SaturdayGT said:

LOL,  Did you really expect anything else when starting this thread in this forum PT? 

All such threads should receive the attention they deserve.  There's nothing wrong with enforcing standards.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

3 hours ago, SaturdayGT said:

LOL,  Did you really expect anything else when starting this thread in this forum PT? 

I guess I let my expectations get to high sometime and forget the mindset of some here.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

3 hours ago, SaturdayGT said:

  I only heard a bitm but I thought he was traveling back and forth to Libya or Tunisia?...Regardless, even if that's wrong, this stuff is not going to stop. Its being stemmed from several countries who looking to do these kinds of things. I think we need to be very cautious in letting these people come and go into our countries. If a ban is needed to figure things out, or find a more secure way of vetting people, then so be it. It doesn't make us bad people to want that, that all lies on the terrorist organizations.

Exactly. And as far as peaceful Muslims assimilating into our society the problem is they often know or suspect something fishy is going on but are afraid to speak up lest they become a target og the bad guys. I saw an interview with the Muslim next door neighbor of the Manchester bomber. He said he was very suspicious of what he saw going on but was afraid to say anything.

[augolf1716 21,253]

17 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

 No more Rolling Stones concerts.

I would approve too damn old

[alexava 6,973]

4 hours ago, Bigbens42 said:

Travel ban would not have prevented this. The perp was born in England. 

I think what he was getting at is the guy would have been banned from traveling to and or from Lybia. I don't know enough about where how or when this individual was radicalized to know if it could have helped. 

[TexasTiger 12,992]

54 minutes ago, alexava said:

I think what he was getting at is the guy would have been banned from traveling to and or from Lybia. I don't know enough about where how or when this individual was radicalized to know if it could have helped. 

His ban wouldn't effect British citizens coming from the U.K.  regardless of where they had recently traveled.

[I_M4_AU 7,944]

10 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

One thing America has done much better than Europe is having immigrants "buy in" to our society/culture, even as immigrants retain elements of their original culture.

Where is you evidence for this statement?  Have you spent a lot of time in Europe?  

[TexasTiger 12,992]

22 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Where is you evidence for this statement?  Have you spent a lot of time in Europe?  

Yes. Read a lot, too.

https://www.cato.org/blog/muslim-immigration-integration-united-states-western-europe

[I_M4_AU 7,944]

9 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Yes. Read a lot, too.

https://www.cato.org/blog/muslim-immigration-integration-united-states-western-europe

Interesting article.  I agree that Europe is heavily unionized and that can affect the ability of unskilled labor to secure a well paying job.  It's interesting how the welfare systems of Europe and the "guest worker" program is some of the problems America faces, just with a different ethnic group.

The statistics stating American Muslims are more tolerant of morally acceptable issues are also interesting, but has little bearing on how a rogue immigrant will affect society and does not take into affect the terrorist thought process.  An example of this is the acceptance of homosexuality in Europe as opposed to the US.  The US Muslim are tolerant of homosexuality at a 27% rate, yet Omar Mateen targeted a LBGT night club in Orlando with his terrorist attack.  It is also interesting to note the Omar was an American born Muslim 29 years old, which is similar to Abedi, a 22 year old born in the UK.

[TexasTiger 12,992]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Interesting article.  I agree that Europe is heavily unionized and that can affect the ability of unskilled labor to secure a well paying job.  It's interesting how the welfare systems of Europe and the "guest worker" program is some of the problems America faces, just with a different ethnic group.

The statistics stating American Muslims are more tolerant of morally acceptable issues are also interesting, but has little bearing on how a rogue immigrant will affect society and does not take into affect the terrorist thought process.  An example of this is the acceptance of homosexuality in Europe as opposed to the US.  The US Muslim are tolerant of homosexuality at a 27% rate, yet Omar Mateen targeted a LBGT night club in Orlando with his terrorist attack.  It is also interesting to note the Omar was an American born Muslim 29 years old, which is similar to Abedi, a 22 year old born in the UK.

What's the reason for Eric Rudolph? Dylan Ruff? Timothy McVeigh? Multiple guys killing doctors?

[quietfan 233]

Based on this link from Titan's other thread:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/24/security-services-missed-five-opportunities-stop-manchester/

Isn't it just as probable that we'd be keeping valuable allies, informants, & community sources out?  Or alienate those who currently side with us in denouncing terrorist acts, while giving extremists one more recruiting aid?

[quietfan 233]

Question/Opinion:  Odds of SCOTUS accepting, much less overruling, an appeal of a 10-3 decision?

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/appeals-court-upholds-ban-enforcing-trump-travel-restrictions-n764701

Quote

 

A federal appeals court Thursday upheld one of two bans on enforcing President Donald Trump's executive order restricting travel from six predominately Muslim countries.

The Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, based in Richmond, Virginia, voted 10-3 to uphold a ruling by a federal judge in Maryland who declared in March that the president's revised travel order amounted to unconstitutional religious discrimination.

 

 

[AuburnNTexas 7,167]

We shouldn't be banning Muslim's but there is a need for a better vetting process from any country where due to violence has become an anarchy. Syria and Libya are great examples as there is almost no way to vet a person from these countries as the agencies that do this type of vetting no longer exist or are run by people like ISIS in certain parts of the countries.

Over the last couple of administration's we have helped create these situations. Bush in taking out Hussein almost totally destroyed or disbanded the Iraqi army allowing a vacuum to be created a breeding ground for terrorist's.Along with simmering issues like Sunni, Shia, Kurd, Arab this area was ready for an explosion if there wasn't a restraint. Regime change has consequences. Then Obama/Hillary after constantly telling us how stupid Bush was for doing this in Iraq does the same thing in Libya but also directly and indirectly routed arms into Libya to fight Qaddafi creating the same vacuum and also arming a lot of bad people. Regime change has consequences.

Under Obama we decided to get rid of Assad we even drew a line in the sand. When the line was crossed we did nothing. We armed people fighting against Assad some were good people some were not but we did just enough to keep the war going but not enough to get a winner. We had the opportunity early on to create no fly zones to stop barrel bombing and safe zones in Syria but opted out of it.  We did just enough for so long  that the Russians moved into the vacuum.

This has created a huge refugee crisis with no place for this large a number of people to go. It isn't fair to the great majority of these people who are good people who just want a safe place to go. However because of the numbers other countries can't handle the large number refugees in addition there are bad people coming in with the good people. We can't vet people from these countries so there is some risk There is no easy solution but Trump is not wrong in saying that we need a better process in place before letting people from these countries in.  I would like some exceptions made for humanitarian reasons and I would like a timeline on how soon we could start allowing limited numbers of people in as we develop a process for trying to exclude the bad guys.

I have heard people who want to allow people in from these countries point to the fact that many of the terrorists are home grown as they were born here or came very young. That doesn't mean that they were not influenced by the bad people who came from these regions and converted them into terrorists.

 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,944]

4 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

What's the reason for Eric Rudolph? Dylan Ruff? Timothy McVeigh? Multiple guys killing doctors?

I'm guessing you are asking what was the reason these individuals did what they did.  That's actually an easy one, each one of these people believed in a doctrine so passionately (radically) that they felt they needed to increase public awareness.  The way they choose was not the best way to get their point across, but that's what terrorists do.  I'm shocked you didn't know this and had to ask me.  

My response earlier was to the article you posted regarding American and European integration of Muslims.