Wildcat

[LKEEL75 2,566]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

However, the real point is that the wildcat adds a blocker, typically giving the offense a mathematical advantage. Furthermore, the defense doesn't know where the ball carrier is going, even if he's unlikely to throw it. 

Who is the added blocker?  Last year, JS spread out as WR when KJ was carrying the ball.  He is by no means a blocker.  So you still have the same number of players on the field and QB is still not blocking.

[AUsince72 11,084]

35 minutes ago, LKEEL75 said:

I agree that NFL are typically more sophisticated than college, but it is not hard to scheme against something when you know that 90% of the time what the play is.  Exact same thing that most of the board has been saying for the last few years regarding the play right after a first down and we HUNH to run a dive play.  Teams have caught on and know what is coming.  Same goes for WC.

True enough.  I'm guessing that it's just matter of the college coach expecting "my guys are tougher than your guys".

[AUsince72 11,084]

12 minutes ago, LKEEL75 said:

Who is the added blocker?  Last year, JS spread out as WR when KJ was carrying the ball.  He is by no means a blocker.  So you still have the same number of players on the field and QB is still not blocking.

Keep in mind too...  The WC is not simply a RB playing QB.  It's an unbalanced line formation designed to flood one side of the LOS with blockers.... Think "student body right/left".  Check out replays of WC's and usually you'll see an extra lineman on one side of the ball.

Also, not all the time is the QB on the field....but maybe an extra TE, FB or even OL-man.  Thus the extra blocker.

It's actually a sophisticated scheme.....for college ball.

[LKEEL75 2,566]

3 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

Keep in mind too...  The WC is not simply a RB playing QB.  It's an unbalanced line formation designed to flood one side of the LOS with blockers.... Think "student body right/left".  Check out replays of WC's and usually you'll see an extra lineman on one side of the ball.

Also, not all the time is the QB on the field....but maybe an extra TE, FB or even OL-man.  Thus the extra blocker.

It's actually a sophisticated scheme.....for college ball.

yeah, I know there are the times when QB is off the field, but ultimately you would want to run it without swapping personnel.  

To be honest, I heard Golic & Wingo (sp?) talking about it this morning and they had some pretty good points (that I have stated).  I get what you guys are saying and not trying to be a pain.  It just seems like we should not force the WC if we don't have the starting personnel that can run it.

[AUsince72 11,084]

3 minutes ago, LKEEL75 said:

yeah, I know there are the times when QB is off the field, but ultimately you would want to run it without swapping personnel.  

I get what you're saying.  I just go back to my previous post about being tougher than the other team.  Probably just a gut-check attitude.

4 minutes ago, LKEEL75 said:

To be honest, I heard Golic & Wingo (sp?) talking about it this morning and they had some pretty good points (that I have stated).  I get what you guys are saying and not trying to be a pain.  It just seems like we should not force the WC if we don't have the starting personnel that can run it.

No pain....good discussion.

I don't disagree at all.  I've stated elsewhere that I'm not even sure who a good WC back will be on this particular team.  Gatewood?  Maybe, but I'm on record as not being sure he's really a downhill runner, a la Cam.

[McLoofus 35,182]

34 minutes ago, LKEEL75 said:

Who is the added blocker?  Last year, JS spread out as WR when KJ was carrying the ball.  He is by no means a blocker.  So you still have the same number of players on the field and QB is still not blocking.

Right. So when the QB shifts out to WR and nobody takes his place in the backfield, that means you've got an extra player to put somewhere. That usually happens in the form of an extra tight end (who is usually an OL reporting as a tight end). 

As for the QB, a defender still has to stay out of the box and cover him somewhat. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

28 minutes ago, LKEEL75 said:

It just seems like we should not force the WC if we don't have the starting personnel that can run it.

No disagreement here. I just find it unlikely that we don't have the personnel that can run it. 

[toddc 13,194]

8 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Right. So when the QB shifts out to WR and nobody takes his place in the backfield, that means you've got an extra player to put somewhere. That usually happens in the form of an extra tight end (who is usually an OL reporting as a tight end). 

As for the QB, a defender still has to stay out of the box and cover him somewhat. 

Yeah, see the kodi burns to cam touchdown! Have to account for qb. 

[LKEEL75 2,566]

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Right. So when the QB shifts out to WR and nobody takes his place in the backfield, that means you've got an extra player to put somewhere. That usually happens in the form of an extra tight end (who is usually an OL reporting as a tight end). 

As for the QB, a defender still has to stay out of the box and cover him somewhat. 

yeah, I get what you are saying, you can have another player in the backfield with QB at WR.  I was thinking another blocker in the game.  IE: the dreaded year where we sucked it up because every play we were substituting players to get different personnel on field.

[LKEEL75 2,566]

1 minute ago, toddc said:

Yeah, see the kodi burns to cam touchdown! Have to account for qb. 

I actually posted that video a few pages ago.  The difference was that we actually threw from the formation at that time.  We don't seem to do that any more.

[japantiger 4,051]

Does anyone have any real stats on our success in the Wildcat?  YPCarry, Completions, TD's, etc.?   

[TexasTiger 12,897]

5 hours ago, japantiger said:

Does anyone have any real stats on our success in the Wildcat?  YPCarry, Completions, TD's, etc.?   

Yes.

[TexasTiger 12,897]

16 hours ago, LKEEL75 said:

I actually posted that video a few pages ago.  The difference was that we actually threw from the formation at that time.  We don't seem to do that any more.

 

[AUsince72 11,084]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

Yes.

 

[kd4au 1,145]

2 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

 

All fans of the WC want to point to this play. I wonder how many times we actually passed from the WC besides this play? I would be fine with running the WC as long as we did A. not run the same play every time B. not run the same play every time and C. maybe not run the same damn play every time. It has grown old with me much as the run up the gut after every first down.

[LKEEL75 2,566]

14 minutes ago, kd4au said:

All fans of the WC want to point to this play. I wonder how many times we actually passed from the WC besides this play? I would be fine with running the WC as long as we did A. not run the same play every time B. not run the same play every time and C. maybe not run the same damn play every time. It has grown old with me much as the run up the gut after every first down.

This is exactly what I was saying about tendencies that the good teams pick up on.

[LKEEL75 2,566]

2 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

 

So you have one pass play out of how many runs from that formation?  Maybe @StatTiger has the numbers for WC formation?

[TexasTiger 12,897]

12 minutes ago, LKEEL75 said:

So you have one pass play out of how many runs from that formation?  Maybe @StatTiger has the numbers for WC formation?

I’m not disagreeing with being less predictable, just clarifying facts. Kerryon was 4-4 as a WC:

https://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/players/playerpage/2183973/kerryon-johnson

[LKEEL75 2,566]

2 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

I’m not disagreeing with being less predictable, just clarifying facts. Kerryon was 4-4 as a WC:

https://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/players/playerpage/2183973/kerryon-johnson

4-4 in 3 years.  So we threw 4 passes in 3 years from that formation.  Thanks for the stat.

[TexasTiger 12,897]

4 minutes ago, LKEEL75 said:

4-4 in 3 years.  So we threw 4 passes in 3 years from that formation.  Thanks for the stat.

Well, you said there was only one. Here’s another.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-football/2017/11/28/16701578/auburn-trick-play-wildcat-wheel-offense

[LKEEL75 2,566]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

Well, you said there was only one. Here’s another.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-football/2017/11/28/16701578/auburn-trick-play-wildcat-wheel-offense

You are right.  In 1 post I did use the word "one".  In all of my other posts I have used "90% of the time it is a run".  In fact, 90% is probably low, but I was just trying to make a point about tendencies.

[McLoofus 35,182]

On 8/9/2018 at 10:02 AM, kd4au said:

All fans of the WC want to point to this play. I wonder how many times we actually passed from the WC besides this play? I would be fine with running the WC as long as we did A. not run the same play every time B. not run the same play every time and C. maybe not run the same damn play every time. It has grown old with me much as the run up the gut after every first down.

How many times did we run it and fail to gain a first down or touchdown?

 

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

How many times did we run it and fail to gain a first down or touchdown?

 

Good (and maybe the relevant) question.

[kd4au 1,145]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

How many times did we run it and fail to gain a first down or touchdown?

 

IDK if you have those numbers lay them on me and I would be impressed. It's probably more successful than not, but it may could be even more successful if there were a more diverse set of plays ran out of the WC.

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, AUld fAUx@ said:

Good (and maybe the relevant) question.

What nobody has demonstrated, at least to me, is that it has been an unproductive play for us when we've run it. People have claimed that defenses have adjusted to it, but I don't recall that being the case at all.

And that last point is often looked at the wrong way. "Defenses have adjusted to it", if even true, means that "defenses have had to devote very limited film room and practice time to it".  From what I've read, defenses have to spend WAY more time preparing for it than offenses do. Maybe that's not as true if they've been at it  for a few years, but they do still have to prepare for it no matter what. And we're probably still going to get 3 yards when we run it. 

Oh, and that 1 time we threw it? Guess what? Every defense we face in 2018 has to devote film room and practice time to defending against the pass because of that 1 time we did it. And they have to be ready for it every time we line up in the WC this season.