Woman accuses Kavanaugh of sexual assault decades ago

[TitanTiger 20,538]

18 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

@TitanTiger want to hear your thoughts on this. Promise won’t fight you on it:

Not a single person who supposedly had knowledge of these rape parties said anything for over 30 years. Does this warrant any consideration whatsoever?

Not really.  For one thing, calling them "rape parties" isn't really how they would have seen them at the time.  They were wild parties.  It's hard to describe how differently things like this were back then, especially when it came to a girl who's wasted at a party.  Attitudes about sexual assault were just no where near what they are now.  If a girl found herself in that position, that's because she was that kind of girl, even though the good girls watched their backs to avoid drinking the spiked punch and such so it wouldn't happen to them.  It was just somewhat normal.

It's looking back on it years later that most of them come to realize how messed up it was.

 

[SaltyTiger 7,900]

7 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

It was just somewhat normal.

No it was not normal Titan. Not even "somewhat". 

[AUFAN78 3,943]

1 minute ago, SaltyTiger said:

No it was not normal Titan. Not even "somewhat". 

Nor was it in my youth. High school nor college. Or beyond.

[TitanTiger 20,538]

Just now, SaltyTiger said:

No it was not normal Titan. Not even "somewhat". 

Yeah, to a degree it kinda was.  Like Dub said earlier, just watch some of the movies of the era.  Not just Porky's but even iconic teen films like Sixteen Candles and see how things that simply aren't condoned now were seen as coming of age, rites of passage and played off for laughs. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

12 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Not really.  For one thing, calling them "rape parties" isn't really how they would have seen them at the time.  They were wild parties.  It's hard to describe how differently things like this were back then, especially when it came to a girl who's wasted at a party.  Attitudes about sexual assault were just no where near what they are now.  If a girl found herself in that position, that's because she was that kind of girl, even though the good girls watched their backs to avoid drinking the spiked punch and such so it wouldn't happen to them.  It was just somewhat normal.

It's looking back on it years later that most of them come to realize how messed up it was.

 

One accuser claims that on numerous occasions, BK would treat girls in a sexually inappropriate manner, and he wouldn’t take “no” for an answer. He would also consistently drug other girls, and the accuser knew it. I just don’t think that’s something you look back on years after and then realize how messed up it was. 

Anyways, thanks for the response.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

5 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

No it was not normal Titan. Not even "somewhat". 

Yeah total BS. 

[AUFAN78 3,943]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

Yeah, to a degree it kinda was.  Like Dub said earlier, just watch some of the movies of the era.  Not just Porky's but even iconic teen films like Sixteen Candles and see how things that simply aren't condoned now were seen as coming of age, rites of passage and played off for laughs. 

I appreciate the disclaimer, but no, not in my world. Movies notwithstanding. Sorry to disappoint. Maybe in Hollywood? That would not surprise me. 

[SaltyTiger 7,900]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

Yeah, to a degree it kinda was.  Like Dub said earlier, just watch some of the movies of the era.  Not just Porky's but even iconic teen films like Sixteen Candles and see how things that simply aren't condoned now were seen as coming of age, rites of passage and played off for laughs. 

Not even to a kinda degree. I have no obligation or desire to explain my history from those years to you. But you are dead wrong.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

1 minute ago, AUFAN78 said:

I appreciate the disclaimer, but no, not in my world. Movies notwithstanding. Sorry to disappoint. Maybe in Hollywood? That would not surprise me. 

Yeah there’s no way I can believe this was somehow a normalized facet of society back then.

[TitanTiger 20,538]

Molly Ringwald wrote an article a few years ago, revisiting some of her films in light of the Harvey Weinstein stuff and MeToo and she sees the difference in then and now, and this is just a small insight:

Quote

If I sound overly critical, it’s only with hindsight. Back then, I was only vaguely aware of how inappropriate much of John’s writing was, given my limited experience and what was considered normal at the time. I was well into my thirties before I stopped considering verbally abusive men more interesting than the nice ones. I’m a little embarrassed to say that it took even longer for me to fully comprehend the scene late in “Sixteen Candles,” when the dreamboat, Jake, essentially trades his drunk girlfriend, Caroline, to the Geek, to satisfy the latter’s sexual urges, in return for Samantha’s underwear. The Geek takes Polaroids with Caroline to have proof of his conquest; when she wakes up in the morning with someone she doesn’t know, he asks her if she “enjoyed it.” (Neither of them seems to remember much.) Caroline shakes her head in wonderment and says, “You know, I have this weird feeling I did.” She had to have a feeling about it, rather than a thought, because thoughts are things we have when we are conscious, and she wasn’t.

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/personal-history/what-about-the-breakfast-club-molly-ringwald-metoo-john-hughes-pretty-in-pink

It was a big moment in the movie that was seen as him finally becoming a "man" and such and the entire thing was him having sex with a girl so drunk out of her mind she can't remember a damn thing about it.  Too drunk to consent.  It would rightly be classified as sexual assault today but then?  One of the film's protagonists achieves his goal.

And that's a mild example, but it's insightful to understand some of the attitudes prevalent in the 80s.

[AUFAN78 3,943]

2 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

One accuser claims that on numerous occasions, BK would treat girls in a sexually inappropriate manner, and he wouldn’t take “no” for an answer. He would also consistently drug other girls, and the accuser knew it. I just don’t think that’s something you look back on years after and then realize how messed up it was. 

Anyways, thanks for the response.

Lets be honest, if proven he should be withdrawn. Now let's see facts. I am listening!  If proven I am on board.  

[TitanTiger 20,538]

3 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Not even to a kinda degree. I have no obligation or desire to explain my history from those years to you. But you are dead wrong.

Well, I'm not dead wrong because the 80s were my teen and college years so I lived in it.  I knew the players, I knew what was being talked about.  It might not have been your experience, but to say it wasn't a pretty prevalent experience for many teens and college age kids of the era simply isn't accurate.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

Just now, AUFAN78 said:

Lets be honest, if proven he should be withdrawn. Now let's see facts. I am listening!  If proven I am on board.  

They don’t care about proving anything. They just want to flop some senators or string it out to primaries. Again, if they cared, they would not have sat on the first allegation for 2 months

[TitanTiger 20,538]

1 minute ago, AUFAN78 said:

Lets be honest, if proven he should be withdrawn. Now let's see facts. I am listening!  If proven I am on board.  

Ok, let's be honest.  Given that almost every sexual assault known to man happens away from other people and the girl and the guy(s) are normally the only witnesses, and that most don't have the wherewithal to be able to video tape the incident, what kind of proof are you asking for?  

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Well, I'm not dead wrong because the 80s were my teen and college years so I lived in it.  I knew the players, I knew what was being talked about.  It might not have been your experience, but to say it wasn't a pretty prevalent experience for many teens and college age kids of the era simply isn't accurate.

Titan you’re a smart guy, but seriously think about some of the things you’re saying. I can’t tell if you actually mean it as the intellect that I truly know you are or if your bias is informing you. Read the allegations and think about it. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

Ok, let's be honest.  Given that almost every sexual assault known to man happens away from other people and the girl and the guy(s) are normally the only witnesses, and that most don't have the wherewithal to be able to video tape the incident, what kind of proof are you asking for?  

Read the allegations man. According to the revelations today, many people knew of and witnessed BK engage in these acts.....

[TitanTiger 20,538]

Just now, NolaAuTiger said:

Titan you’re a smart guy, but seriously think about some of the things your saying. I can’t tell if you actually mean it as the intellect that I truly know you are or if your bias is informing you. Read the allegations and think about it. 

I did read them.  And then I thought about some of the parties I heard of and the stories that made it back to school after the weekend was over.  And ones that were even worse at other schools like Montgomery Academy back in the day.

Color me unsurprised.

[TitanTiger 20,538]

Just now, NolaAuTiger said:

Read the allegations man. According to the revelations today, many people knew of and witnessed BK engage in these acts.....

I have.  What kind of proof could Mrs. Ford produce under the circumstances?

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

Just now, TitanTiger said:

I did read them.  And then I thought about some of the parties I heard of and the stories that made it back to school after the weekend was over.  And ones that were even worse at other schools like Montgomery Academy back in the day.

Color me unsurprised.

So it was widely known? Did you report these acts or were they accepted as the norm?

[AUFAN78 3,943]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Ok, let's be honest.  Given that almost every sexual assault known to man happens away from other people and the girl and the guy(s) are normally the only witnesses, and that most don't have the wherewithal to be able to video tape the incident, what kind of proof are you asking for?  

Some reputable overwhelming corroboration?

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

5 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I have.  What kind of proof could Mrs. Ford produce under the circumstances?

For starters, the named witnesses. But all know how that has turned out.

[TitanTiger 20,538]

9 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

So it was widely known? Did you report these acts or were they accepted as the norm?

I figure it was fairly widely known.  I don't think it registered that it was actually wrong for a lot of guys to have sex with a girl who was wasted but conscious.  A lot of people seemed to act like it was normal.  As I said before it wasn't normal for me.  I tended to think of sex as something I'd want to do with a girlfriend, not just any ol' ho at a party.

And that's part of the deal.  A girl in that situation was generally just seen as a slut.  She got herself into that by getting so drunk around all those guys.  She never said no.  She seemed like she was into it.  Yada yada yada.  

No I didn't report it.  I heard stories.  I wasn't there to see it.  And I probably had the same attitude as some others.  Having not seen how drunk she really was I just figured she was a ho bag.

[TitanTiger 20,538]

6 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

Some reputable overwhelming corroboration?

Given that it was only her and the two perps in the room, what corroboration could she give to satisfy you?

[TitanTiger 20,538]

Guys, it's been a long day and I'm going to bed.  See you on the flip side.

[jw 4 au 526]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I did read them.  And then I thought about some of the parties I heard of and the stories that made it back to school after the weekend was over.  And ones that were even worse at other schools like Montgomery Academy back in the day.

Color me unsurprised.

Stories you heard?  So you weren’t actually there?  Sixteen Candles is your only observed incidence?  Surely you know the stories you heard on Monday morning during third period French probably didn’t actually happen exactly as they were recalled?  Truth was always embellished by those party animals (not you). And that was only a few days later. Now think about 32 plus years later. And these accusers all recalled them the same exact week. Come on man, call a spade a spade and let’s move on. There is nothing to see here anymore. These last few accusations plus the plethora of support from actual witnesses and people who new BK should rule with any reasonable person. And to think, about half of America will think BK on the SCOTUS is marred by controversy.  Sad state of America.  ♠️