TitanTiger 20,483 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 24 minutes ago, AURealist said: The funny thing is that he was actually getting up-votes. Because we have a segment of the fan base that is content to beat Bama once every 3-4 years and average 8 wins a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,988 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 19 minutes ago, kwagoner said: Not that he’s a boogey man.... wasn’t my argument. He is the benchmark of all comparisons. He is a great coach, which I noted. Has been a great coach. He gets to UA and all of a sudden can’t lose? The point of the comparison is that he wasn’t winning 10 games a year every year, which is what people are demanding from a HC. And it took more than 6 years to do it. And, the point of Richt is that even if you get that wish, you. can still be very disappointed. Not saying we are UA or UGA, or that I’m 100% satisfied with the product we are seeing. I’m just saying “Fire Fire Fire” isn’t always the best. It may end up being the best but I’m. It leading a lynch mob just yet. Fair enough but nobody is demanding that Gus win 10 games EVERY year. What most of us are demanding is just some freaking consistency . Is that really that hard to ask for? Maybe in Auburn’s case yes. But the fact is this is too 25 talent and we will be I ranked today. Do you find that acceptable ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwagoner 214 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, DAG said: Fair enough but nobody is demanding that Gus win 10 games EVERY year. What most of us are demanding is just some freaking consistency . Is that really that hard to ask for? Maybe in Auburn’s case yes. But the fact is this is too 25 talent and we will be I ranked today. Do you find that acceptable ? I’ve seen serveal that define consistency as 10 wins yearly. I want 8 to be a down year, with NC being an up year. That is consistency in my mind and my expectation. (More ups than downs wouldn’t be a problem) And no, we are behind where we should be according to talent. I’d think a 15 ranking would be the expectation based only on recruiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKIPPER_01 99 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Buying out Gus is a risk/reward analysis. 2 options: 1. Buy Gus and staff out and hire a new staff, that will cost maybe $60Million; with no guarantees that the new staff works out. That is a HUGE risk. 2. Stick with Gus. Show him support and the team support but encourage him to hire an experienced OC and let that guy bring his own guys. This is obviously a risk as well as we could fall further and lose the players and recruiting which could set us back for 5-10yrs. I don't think we should fire Gus. This decision was made last year with the nature of the new contract. Auburn went All In with Gus last year, win or lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auburn2Eugene 2,317 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 20 minutes ago, kwagoner said: I’ve seen serveal that define consistency as 10 wins yearly. Then they have never looked into or paid attention to Auburns football history. We have won 10 games in back to back years ONLY ONCE in 100+ years of playing football. Again, it's much more about HOW we play vs Ws and Ls. No one is happy losing. But if we fight hard and give it our all on both sides of the ball, don't lose to teams we have no business losing to, and even if it's only baby steps, as long as we look better each week, all the fire-fire-fire will fade away. 10 wins doesnt mark consistency. Improving each week does. But Auburn simply won't just magically win 10 every season. Asking them to do so is NOT reasonable. You don't go a century playing football and doing something only once in that century to suddenly doing it each and every season. However it IS reasonable to expect improvement each week. That is perfectly reasonable... And it's expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 38 minutes ago, TitanTiger said: Because we have a segment of the fan base that is content to beat Bama once every 3-4 years and average 8 wins a season. No. We just don’t want our AD to have to shut down over a bad contract. The whole of point of providing job security was to marry ourselves to Gus and if we happen to have a faling out, it would cost an arm and a leg in doing so. Btw, we aren’t beating Bama the next two years no matter who our personnel and players are. Check their lineups. They are damn near as young as we are and will not slow down. It’s a no win situation. Keep Gus, and our AD will continue on at the risk of losing current players and recruits. Scrap Gus and a whole staff, recruits will still bolt, we will be financially strapped, and may still not have a successful hire. Lastly, it was a bad contract but it was a gamble that Gus had turned the corner to provide recruiting stability. Nobody that signed off on it should be fired over it. We have an AD in tbe house now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bathel 50 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 12 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said: Then they have never looked into or paid attention to Auburns football history. We have won 10 games in back to back years ONLY ONCE in 100+ years of playing football. Again, it's much more about HOW we play vs Ws and Ls. No one is happy losing. But if we fight hard and give it our all on both sides of the ball, don't lose to teams we have no business losing to, and even if it's only baby steps, as long as we look better each week, all the fire-fire-fire will fade away. 10 wins doesnt mark consistency. Improving each week does. But Auburn simply won't just magically win 10 every season. Asking them to do so is NOT reasonable. You don't go a century playing football and doing something only once in that century to suddenly doing it each and every season. However it IS reasonable to expect improvement each week. That is perfectly reasonable... And it's expected. That’s a bit misleading. The 12 game schedule didn’t start until 2006... since that time we are a 10 win team 4 times, or 33% of the time. To me, it’s not the 10 win game mark that bothers me... it’s the 5,6,7 win years I find unacceptable. We shouldn’t go from a 10 win year... to a 5 or 6 win team the next year. That’s the consistency I don’t see. For it this year, I could of easily seen 8 wins as understandable with the knowledge of 4 new starting olineman and a lack of running talent... but that should have been the bottom. Which doesn’t seem to be the bottom this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,988 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 14 minutes ago, Bathel said: That’s a bit misleading. The 12 game schedule didn’t start until 2006... since that time we are a 10 win team 4 times, or 33% of the time. To me, it’s not the 10 win game mark that bothers me... it’s the 5,6,7 win years I find unacceptable. We shouldn’t go from a 10 win year... to a 5 or 6 win team the next year. That’s the consistency I don’t see. For it this year, I could of easily seen 8 wins as understandable with the knowledge of 4 new starting olineman and a lack of running talent... but that should have been the bottom. Which doesn’t seem to be the bottom this year. Yep..we will be fighting to win 7 games this year tbh .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jared52 4,354 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 1 hour ago, SKIPPER_01 said: Buying out Gus is a risk/reward analysis. 2 options: 1. Buy Gus and staff out and hire a new staff, that will cost maybe $60Million; with no guarantees that the new staff works out. That is a HUGE risk. 2. Stick with Gus. Show him support and the team support but encourage him to hire an experienced OC and let that guy bring his own guys. This is obviously a risk as well as we could fall further and lose the players and recruiting which could set us back for 5-10yrs. I don't think we should fire Gus. This decision was made last year with the nature of the new contract. Auburn went All In with Gus last year, win or lose. The problem is, every thinking person has realized that #2 will NEVER happen. Gus has bought into his “guru” status harder than Stidham his “first round lock” status. He will not give any OC the ability to run their offense. He’s incapable of letting it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUsince72 11,084 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Maybe, since the schedule has changed from 11 reg season games + bowl to 12-13 reg season games + conf champ game + bowl or playoff, we should adjust the "10 win goal" to "no more than 2-3 loss goal". Sorry but 10-4 giving the thUga win right back in the SECCG + yet another bowl loss just doesn't make 10 wins feel that big a deal. Face it, 10 wins was only a 71% win margin. That's a "C" in school....and economically not a good return on $7M investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKIPPER_01 99 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 12 minutes ago, jared52 said: The problem is, every thinking person has realized that #2 will NEVER happen. Gus has bought into his “guru” status harder than Stidham his “first round lock” status. He will not give any OC the ability to run their offense. He’s incapable of letting it go. Well, #2 should just say stick with gus. The rest of what I had said was just my opinion and hope. But my point remains, firing Gus is too risky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnthePlains 2,014 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 2 hours ago, kwagoner said: I’ve seen serveal that define consistency as 10 wins yearly. I want 8 to be a down year, with NC being an up year. That is consistency in my mind and my expectation. (More ups than downs wouldn’t be a problem) And no, we are behind where we should be according to talent. I’d think a 15 ranking would be the expectation based only on recruiting. I literally haven’t seen one post on this board demanding 10 wins a year. It should be an expectation but we know there will be down years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigskinPat 2,579 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 7 hours ago, AURealist said: The funny thing is that he was actually getting up-votes. Actually, he only got four for one ridiculous statement and all four were laughing emojis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,483 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 3 hours ago, aujeff11 said: No. We just don’t want our AD to have to shut down over a bad contract. The whole of point of providing job security was to marry ourselves to Gus and if we happen to have a faling out, it would cost an arm and a leg in doing so. Btw, we aren’t beating Bama the next two years no matter who our personnel and players are. Check their lineups. They are damn near as young as we are and will not slow down. It’s a no win situation. Keep Gus, and our AD will continue on at the risk of losing current players and recruits. Scrap Gus and a whole staff, recruits will still bolt, we will be financially strapped, and may still not have a successful hire. Lastly, it was a bad contract but it was a gamble that Gus had turned the corner to provide recruiting stability. Nobody that signed off on it should be fired over it. We have an AD in tbe house now. That’s simply not satisfactory. It’s the epitome of the sunk cost fallacy, also known as “escalation of commitment”: Escalation of commitment is a human behavior pattern in which an individual or group facing increasingly negative outcomes from some decision, action, or investment nevertheless continues the same behavior rather than alter course. The actor maintains behaviors that are irrational, but align with previous decisions and actions.[1] The AD won't shut down over a bad contract and staying in this and allowing the football program to wither on the vine only prolongs the inevitable, only giving the next coach a bigger hole to dig out of. At some point you just have to accept that it's not going to get better. He's an 7-8 win coach who occasionally will ride a star player to 10 or more wins. If you want to have a program that regularly wins 10+ games and only occasionally falls off to 8-4 in a down year, it's going to have to be with someone else and saving money for a couple of years isn't going to make that easier. If the money people have it to pony up, it's time to rip the band-aid off and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timeslider 6 269 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said: That’s simply not satisfactory. It’s the epitome of the sunk cost fallacy, also known as “escalation of commitment”: Escalation of commitment is a human behavior pattern in which an individual or group facing increasingly negative outcomes from some decision, action, or investment nevertheless continues the same behavior rather than alter course. The actor maintains behaviors that are irrational, but align with previous decisions and actions.[1] The AD won't shut down over a bad contract and staying in this and allowing the football program to wither on the vine only prolongs the inevitable, only giving the next coach a bigger hole to dig out of. At some point you just have to accept that it's not going to get better. He's an 7-8 win coach who occasionally will ride a star player to 10 or more wins. If you want to have a program that regularly wins 10+ games and only occasionally falls off to 8-4 in a down year, it's going to have to be with someone else and saving money for a couple of years isn't going to make that easier. If the money people have it to pony up, it's time to rip the band-aid off and move on. I agree with your analysis, however i suspect the right people in power don't feel the same way as you do. wish they did though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,483 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, Timeslider 6 said: I agree with your analysis, however i suspect the right people in power don't feel the same way as you do. wish they did though. I think that's not a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timeslider 6 269 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 1 minute ago, TitanTiger said: I think that's not a given. I hope you're right. I'm sure you know a lot more about that than me. i was just stating my narrow perception. I'm interested any details you may be aware of though. I was a gus fan for awhile but i'm just tired of the poor execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 47 minutes ago, TitanTiger said: At some point you just have to accept that it's not going to get better. We have been to the NC game, had two ten win seasons, and played in two SECCGs. This season (while disappointing) isnt the same as a program withering on a vine. It’s pretty safe to say that life with Malzahn will always have its bumps, but I don’t see the rush to tackle such a contract. 43 minutes ago, Timeslider 6 said: The AD won't shut down over a bad contract We don’t have the money to buy out a whole staff and pay for the salaries of new staff while also taking care of Bruce and continuing facility upgrades. If anything, the recklessness of the contract can only be topped by its quick breach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwagoner 214 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 On 10/9/2018 at 12:57 AM, CleCoTiger said: He's right on the average for AU coaches as far as wins vs. losses. AU fans, me included, want to see that average go from 8 or so wins to a consistent 10, at least. 2 hours ago, OnthePlains said: I literally haven’t seen one post on this board demanding 10 wins a year. It should be an expectation but we know there will be down years. The most recent one I remember is above. Yes, there I’ll be down years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUwent 3,752 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 4 hours ago, aujeff11 said: No. We just don’t want our AD to have to shut down over a bad contract. The whole of point of providing job security was to marry ourselves to Gus and if we happen to have a faling out, it would cost an arm and a leg in doing so. Btw, we aren’t beating Bama the next two years no matter who our personnel and players are. Check their lineups. They are damn near as young as we are and will not slow down. It’s a no win situation. Keep Gus, and our AD will continue on at the risk of losing current players and recruits. Scrap Gus and a whole staff, recruits will still bolt, we will be financially strapped, and may still not have a successful hire. Lastly, it was a bad contract but it was a gamble that Gus had turned the corner to provide recruiting stability. Nobody that signed off on it should be fired over it. We have an AD in tbe house now. Sorry, your first two paragraphs provide ALL evidence that the contract was an IDIOTIC idea. EDIT (after post below): And if we can't make changes because of it, then yes, Leath SHOULD be fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 8 minutes ago, AUwent said: Sorry, your first two paragraphs provide ALL evidence that the contract was an IDIOTIC idea. Did you not read my third paragraph? Lol. First sentence started out as 4 hours ago, aujeff11 said: Lastly, it was a bad contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnthePlains 2,014 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 35 minutes ago, kwagoner said: The most recent one I remember is above. Yes, there I’ll be down years. He’s speaking of consistency not “demanding” 10 wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwagoner 214 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, OnthePlains said: He’s speaking of consistency not “demanding” 10 wins Defining consistency as 10 wins, then saying that’s what the next coach HAS to have or a reason to fire Gus. Basically demanding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnthePlains 2,014 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Just now, kwagoner said: Defining consistency as 10 wins, then saying that’s what the next coach HAS to have or a reason to fire Gus. Basically demanding it. We’ll agree to disagree but any reasonable Auburn fan knows that ain’t happening. Very small faction of our fan base is unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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