Fire Gus (merged threads)

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

2 hours ago, kwagoner said:

 

The most recent one I remember is above.

Yes, there I’ll be down years. 

I want. I do not demand. If I did demand 10+ wins on average all I would be doing is setting myself up for misery.

[TitanTiger 20,483]

3 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

We have been to the NC game,

Five seasons ago. And since then have had two five loss seasons, one six loss season and a four loss season. And we’re headed for another of at least five losses and could be as many as seven. 

 

Quote

had two ten win seasons, and played in two SECCGs. This season (while disappointing) isnt the same as a program withering on a vine. It’s pretty safe to say that life with Malzahn will always have its bumps, but I don’t see the rush to tackle such a contract. 

The bumps aren’t bumps. They are the norm. 7-8 wins is the constant. The occasional 10 win is the bump. That’s simply unacceptable.

 

Quote

We don’t have the money to buy out a whole staff and pay for the salaries of new staff while also taking care of Bruce and continuing facility upgrades. If anything, the recklessness of the contract can only be topped by its quick breach. 

Let’s be frank, you don’t know what we have the money for. And people who do say it’s not out of the question. We’re one of the most profitable ADs in the country. And that’s just what’s on the books, not counting private money. Would we all rather have seen Gus take the contract and show it was a worthwhile investment by putting a reasonably good product on the field?  Of course. But instead we’ve reverted to the product that put him on the hot seat last year to begin with. 

At some point you have to get over the sunk cost. 

[TitanTiger 20,483]

2 hours ago, kwagoner said:

 

The most recent one I remember is above.

Yes, there I’ll be down years. 

Down years are his norm. Everything else is the exception. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

 

12 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Five seasons ago. And since then have had two five loss seasons, one six loss season and a four loss season. And we’re headed for another of at least five losses and could be as many as seven. 

 

The bumps aren’t bumps. They are the norm. 7-8 wins is the constant. The occasional 10 win is the bump. That’s simply unacceptable.

 

Let’s be frank, you don’t know what we have the money for. And people who do say it’s not out of the question. We’re one of the most profitable ADs in the country. And that’s just what’s on the books, not counting private money. Would we all rather have seen Gus take the contract and show it was a worthwhile investment by putting a reasonably good product on the field?  Of course. But instead we’ve reverted to the product that put him on the hot seat last year to begin with. 

At some point you have to get over the sunk cost. 

Well,  alright. I guess it’s just a difference of opinion. I say let tbe contract dwindle down, give Gus some more 8 win seasons, get our facilities upgraded, take care of Bruce, and then fire Gus over an inappropriate sneeze when the time is right. Like I said, it doesn’t make a hoot to me if we have a couple more 8 win seasons. Auburn has historically been an 8 win team and our bad losses are forgotten by me by the next day. You have your own valid opinion. 🍻

[ChltteTiger 649]

3 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

 

Well,  alright. I guess it’s just a difference of opinion. I say let tbe contract dwindle down, give Gus some more 8 win seasons, and let’s get our facilities upgraded plus take care of Bruce, and prepare for the life of Saban and then fire Gus over an inappropriate sneeze. Like I said, it doesn’t make a hoot to me if we have a couple more 8 win seasons. Auburn has historically been an 8 win team and our bad losses are forgotten by next day. You have your own valid opinion. 🍻

I don't think anyone else here shares your opinion of the situation.

[aujeff11 6,243]

1 minute ago, ChltteTiger said:

I don't think anyone else here shares your opinion of the situation.

Probably not. Because, I still don’t see Gus getting fired, I’ll be the first to start the #2020 Official HC thread. 

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

On 10/13/2018 at 10:05 PM, Zeek said:

Agreed, mostly jesting about the bags. I mean it though people. Don’t go to the games. Sell your tickets to away fans.  Let there be more TAMU fans than Auburn fans 

Question is would Auburn handle that situation the same way that aTm did? They pulled 15,000 student tickets for the season for violation of the no re-sale policy.

https://www.theeagle.com/news/local/texas-a-m-students-face-penalties-for-selling-alabama-tickets/article_ba1549ec-bf30-5964-b151-f4c1f

Can't prove it with articles or citations, but I heard from a friend that this also impacted priority for season ticket holders that were spotted the following years.

Also people talk about aTm getting Fisher. Well despite displeasure with Sumlin they didn't turn their back on their program. In fact that continued to make it the most valuable program in college football. Part of getting him was that they didn't burn down the village to get rid of Sumlin.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2018/09/11/college-footballs-most-valuable-teams/#7a36ae696c64

 

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

18 hours ago, Bathel said:

That’s a bit misleading. The 12 game schedule didn’t start until 2006... since that time we are a 10 win team 4 times, or 33% of the time. 

 

To me, it’s not the 10 win game mark that bothers me... it’s the 5,6,7 win years I find unacceptable.   We shouldn’t go from a 10 win year... to a 5 or 6 win team the next year. That’s the consistency I don’t see. 

 

For it this year, I could of easily seen 8 wins as understandable with the knowledge of 4 new starting olineman and a lack of running talent... but that should have been the bottom.  Which doesn’t seem to be the bottom this year. 

I don't disagree with anything you said. But I never said anything about how many times we have won 10, what I said is how many times we have won 10 in back to back seasons. In our history, we have done it a grand total of one time. And when we did it, we weren't playing a 12 game schedule. And I'm pretty sure when we did do it bowl games didn't count either. 

So there is nothing misleading about what I said at all. It doesn't matter how many games are on the schedule or if bowl games count in the win loss record or not. The simple fact remains, we have won 10 games in back to back years ONLY once. Expecting us to magically win 10 every year is not realistic. 

[AUJarhead 70]

11 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

Probably not. Because, I still don’t see Gus getting fired, I’ll be the first to start the #2020 Official HC thread. 

I think at some point, we need to move on from “bad football” decision to a “bad business” decision. Fire him now or a year from now, it’s a 5M difference. Do you see Auburn losing more than 5M if we keep him?  Will donations and ticket sales come down after this year if we keep him?  Probably.  Does it hurt merchandise sales if we keep him?  Absolutely  

And that’s not taking into account all the hotels, bars, and restaurants in Auburn that won’t be as packed. You can bet your life that the owners of those places are talking to the Athletic Department. 

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

3 minutes ago, AUJarhead said:

You can bet your life that the owners of those places are talking to the Athletic Department. 

And they can cluck all they want. Unless they plan on ponying up a couple million each, it will be nothing but talk. 

And no, it doesn't matter this year or next, that's why he is most likely the head coach in 2021 no matter what happens between now and then. 

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

4 minutes ago, AUJarhead said:

I think at some point, we need to move on from “bad football” decision to a “bad business” decision. Fire him now or a year from now, it’s a 5M difference. Do you see Auburn losing more than 5M if we keep him?  Will donations and ticket sales come down after this year if we keep him?  Probably.  Does it hurt merchandise sales if we keep him?  Absolutely  

And that’s not taking into account all the hotels, bars, and restaurants in Auburn that won’t be as packed. You can bet your life that the owners of those places are talking to the Athletic Department. 

Where does the money come from though to buy him out and the next coach, assuming you get what people want? The POTB will make their decision when ready, but if people just dump the program ticket/donation wise to get rid of Gus that doesn't exactly look good either.

Do you then raise ticket prices and student fees (AU students spend 4.4 million of their tuition on the AD yearly and that doesn't include tickets). Remember most of the money is now coming from things like TV contracts. You would make more of dent if everyone went to the game and didn't watch Auburn on TV probably.

Then also remember, even Alabama has had losses in ticket sales over the past two years. The continuing increasing costs of running a program are pricing many out of attending the games.

Why I strongly disagree with the amount of money that coaches are paid these days. Most of it goes back to them with little return to the academic side of the University:

Quote

In the 2016-17 fiscal year alone, those teams’ athletic departments spent a combined $800 million on capital expenditures and $250 million on debt service for athletic facilities. That year, those same athletics programs combined to transfer just $65 million back to their universities to support academic programming.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2018/09/11/college-footballs-most-valuable-teams/#2d3fd0576c64

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

12 hours ago, ChltteTiger said:

I don't think anyone else here shares your opinion of the situation.

Speak for yourself, I FULLY agree with @aujeff11 on this. Now if you want to talk about what no REAL fan agrees with, let's talk about your total boycott of Auburn football while Gus is the head coach. THAT  my friend, is what no REAL fan agrees with.

12 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

Probably not. Because, I still don’t see Gus getting fired, I’ll be the first to start the #2020 Official HC thread. 

Some do. Some of us have something that isn't too common these days... Common sense. 

[NCTiger1982 171]

1 hour ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

I don't disagree with anything you said. But I never said anything about how many times we have won 10, what I said is how many times we have won 10 in back to back seasons. In our history, we have done it a grand total of one time. And when we did it, we weren't playing a 12 game schedule. And I'm pretty sure when we did do it bowl games didn't count either. 

So there is nothing misleading about what I said at all. It doesn't matter how many games are on the schedule or if bowl games count in the win loss record or not. The simple fact remains, we have won 10 games in back to back years ONLY once. Expecting us to magically win 10 every year is not realistic. 

The part of our fan base that accepts 8 win seasons regardless of our history are our biggest challenge. 

FSU was a home coming opponent until Bowden. 

Clemson was not a consistent 10 win season team until Dabo. Think they will tolerate  8 win seasons with any regularity now ? 

LSU before Saban/Miles was not a double digit winner. Look at Miles run. Sure, he got canned because he could not beat Saban but why can LSU run off double digit seasons and we can’t? It kills me that the LSU fan base demands more than mine does and I’m NOT endorsing Coach O as a good hire. I think he is a mistake but applaud them and TAM for having the balls to take a stand on what they think their program should attain   

Our 8-win history is NOT acceptable in my eyes. All of the teams mentioned above had a weaker history than Auburn and they changed their history with better hires, resetting their expectations bar and demanding the newly attained expectations be met or exceeded with consistency. Auburn brass & our fan base are the ONLY ones that can change this. We don’t have to trash the Creed to consistently compete for the SECC/playoffs/NC winning our share. We don’t have to sacrifice a damn thing that makes Auburn a special place to consistently win championships. 

 

War Eagle ! 

[johnnyAU 3,633]

Next time Gus goes to Waffle House, I wonder if any of the wait staff would have the stones to hand him a receipt for $32 million.  Now that would be funny.  😂

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

7 minutes ago, NCTiger1982 said:

The part of our fan base that accepts 8 win seasons regardless of our history are our biggest challenge. 

FSU was a home coming opponent until Bowden. 

Clemson was not a consistent 10 win season team until Dabo. Think they will tolerate  8 win seasons with any regularity now ? 

LSU before Saban/Miles was not a double digit winner. Look at Miles run. Sure, he got canned because he could not beat Saban but why can LSU run off double digit seasons and we can’t? It kills me that the LSU fan base demands more than mine does and I’m NOT endorsing Coach O as a good hire. I think he is a mistake but applaud them and TAM for having the balls to take a stand on what they think their program should attain   

Our 8-win history is NOT acceptable in my eyes. All of the teams mentioned above had a weaker history than Auburn and they changed their history with better hires, resetting their expectations bar and demanding the newly attained expectations be met or exceeded with consistency. Auburn brass & our fan base are the ONLY ones that can change this. We don’t have to trash the Creed to consistently compete for the SECC/playoffs/NC winning our share. We don’t have to sacrifice a damn thing that makes Auburn a special place to consistently win championships. 

 

War Eagle ! 

I never said anything about accepting Auburn as an 8 win team. 

I did say Auburn has won 10 in back to back seasons only once in our history. I did say Auburn won't just magically turn into a team that wins 10 every year. We have so much going against us with the schedule. Besides playing in college footballs toughest division and playing Bama, LSU, and Mississippi State EVERY season, we also play UGA each and every season. We also have to play at least one major OOC team a year. Plus having UGA and Bama in 2 out of the last 3 weeks of the season, and playing each one on the road in the same season. This gives us one of the most difficult schedules each and every year. FSU doesn't have to play anywhere near the same schedule. Clemsux doesn't have anywhere near that difficult of a schedule every season. Bama doesn't have that difficult of a schedule every season. LSU doesn't have that difficult of a schedule every season. Comparing any of those teams schedules to ours is the same as comparing apples to oranges. 

 

Like I said, I'm not happy with the way we have looked this season. I'm not happy with Gus getting complacent after signing a contract that makes him one of the highest paid coaches in college football. I'm not happy with Gus surrounding himself with Yes Men. I'm not happy with any of those things... But what I am is realistic. What I do is view things without orange and blue shaders. What I do is call it like I see it... And I'm a history buff. One who doesn't know history is doomed to repeat it. And history says Auburn is a top 15 all time program. Auburn is not a top 5 all time program. Auburn does not win 10 consistently. 

Would I like us to consistently win 10? OF COURSE! But that doesn't stop me from seeing things objectively. 

[SKIPPER_01 99]

12 hours ago, ChltteTiger said:

I don't think anyone else here shares your opinion of the situation.

I am one of the loudest critics of Gus, lack of leadershio, player development. Etc...but I share AUjeff's opinion that AU should not buy out Gus after the season. 

As bad as I hate it. AU can't buy out $31Mil + assistants + hire a new staff that possibly has a buyout of their own. We are talking upwards of $60Mil. AU can not and should not consider that.

Use that money for a football facility.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

On 10/13/2018 at 5:50 PM, TitanTiger said:

Yep.  Half up front, the rest divided over 4 years.

But everything is negotiable.  And also, it goes down approximately $7 million per year.  Does that go down Dec 1st or Dec 31st?  If it's earlier, you could wait til then and then the buyout is only about $25M.  If it's later, you could tell him he's gone as soon as the buyout goes down, or he can take $X amount now divided over the next 10 years rather than lose $7M while being a lame duck.

Would anything change if he was hired by a different school? How much would he still be entitled to from AU?

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

1 minute ago, SKIPPER_01 said:

I am one of the loudest critics of Gus, lack of leadershio, player development. Etc...but I share AUjeff's opinion that AU should not buy out Gus after the season. 

As bad as I hate it. AU can't buy out $31Mil + assistants + hire a new staff that possibly has a buyout of their own. We are talking upwards of $60Mil. AU can not and should not consider that.

Use that money for a football facility.

 

[Butthead 525]

if i am the AD, i am starting to make Gus's life very uncomfortable.

[Butthead 525]

7 minutes ago, SKIPPER_01 said:

I am one of the loudest critics of Gus, lack of leadershio, player development. Etc...but I share AUjeff's opinion that AU should not buy out Gus after the season. 

As bad as I hate it. AU can't buy out $31Mil + assistants + hire a new staff that possibly has a buyout of their own. We are talking upwards of $60Mil. AU can not and should not consider that.

Use that money for a football facility.

No reason to buy out.  Make Gus very uncomfortable.  Eventually, he will fix it or negotiate an exit.

[SKIPPER_01 99]

12 minutes ago, Butthead said:

No reason to buy out.  Make Gus very uncomfortable.  Eventually, he will fix it or negotiate an exit.

I'd be fine with that. How much power does AU have over Malzahn and hiw he runs the program? Whatever it is, Allen Green should be all over it. 

I'll hide the bubble gum. 

[kwagoner 214]

19 minutes ago, Butthead said:

if i am the AD, i am starting to make Gus's life very uncomfortable.

Because that passive aggression will make the job so much appealing for whomever the next target would be. 🙄

If you want him gone, man up and do it. Otherwise, don’t.

[gr82b4au 5,568]

13 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

Probably not. Because, I still don’t see Gus getting fired, I’ll be the first to start the #2020 Official HC thread. 

I don’t either. Now if we lose out and go 4-8 there might be an issue with retaining him. 

[Butthead 525]

I've never worked in an athletic department, but I would think the AD could involve himself in such a way as to drive Gus crazy.  

[Butthead 525]

3 minutes ago, kwagoner said:

Because that passive aggression will make the job so much appealing for whomever the next target would be. 🙄

If you want him gone, man up and do it. Otherwise, don’t.

i am trying to save the university $50 million, not make a hypothetical new coach happy.  plus, most people that are really, really good at their chosen fields thrive on pressure.