The ultimate defender

[kd4au 1,145]

2 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

Imo Gus's qb recruiting has been weak

That's putting mildly. I would say it has been awful. I've said this in other threads, Gus doesn't seem to even know what kind of QB he wants or needs to run his offense.

[corchjay 5,311]

7 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

The issue isn't that Malzahn doesnt want great dual threat qbs. In fact, Nick Marshall saved Gus's ass and made him like look better that he was in 2013 and 2014. Perfect example is the 2014 Ole Miss game. Nick Marshall scrambling and hitting huge plays to Sammy Coates won us that game. Period. Not Gus's play calling. The real issue is Gus and his merry band of lackey assistants have not landed a really talented dual threat since NM, while missing on many. Deondre Francois, Lamar Jackson, Justin Fields, Kelly Bryant, etc. Instead, he had to settle for John Franklin iii, Malik Willis, etc. Imo Gus's qb recruiting has been weak. 

A lot depends on how Joey/Bo goes...moving forward.  

[corchjay 5,311]

8 minutes ago, kd4au said:

That's putting mildly. I would say it has been awful. I've said this in other threads, Gus doesn't seem to even know what kind of QB he wants or needs to run his offense.

I kind of agree with you.  Sure everyone wants a great passer but what makes our run game hum is a guy who can keep the ball 10-15 times a game.  Moving the chains is the name of the game in the SEC.  

and I think our team this year would benefit if Stidham kept it 10 times a game as well.  

[AURocketman 73]

I’d like your opinion on what I consider as soft practice.  It’s nothing like good ole days.  Started with Chizic and may influence Gus.

I drank the koolaide when I saw Jeremy Johnson in practice.  He was very good while wearing an orange Penny Jersey.  (Non-contact).  I quit going but suspect same with Stidham.

id like your thoughts on a secondary effect.  What has jumped out since Chizic days is bad angle/arm tackling on defense.  During practice scrimmage they took angles for flag football. Perfect to tag as they run by.  I’d complain during games to everyone sitting by me because they looked like they did in practice.  It’s a half-step to to step behind in the angle to make a “form” tackle.  Mostly called arm tackling.  They practice arm tackling a lot in my opinion.  Mushchamp changed this, but this year it seems to have returned on defense.  

Extrapolate to the O-line.  One would think that blocking our DLine would make good test and evaluation of O-line talent.  If QBs are non-contact does the DL run through the wall as hard.  Easier to block someone putting on the breaks. You know the DL is not coming as hard as if they are trying to sack opponent QB. 

Isnt this a situation where you limit your ability to evaluate players at game speed?

I was at Scholarship practice and the only plays that were “live” were kicks and punts.  These are the highest percentage for injuries.  It was something wanted because we had been fumbling punts.  So it was few years ago.  I quit going because that are so lame under Gus.

We lack toughness.  Other teams “punch us in the mouth”.

 

[Mike4AU 1,739]

Unless a miracle happens, we are stuck with Doug, uh, Gus, for 2-3 more years.  The bright spot is we have become exhibit A for all schools on what not to do when negotiating a contract. 

[twilli13 600]

1 hour ago, corchjay said:

A lot depends on how Joey/Bo goes...moving forward.  

I dont see Joey ever playing QB in D1. Imo that's one of Gus's biggest issues. He recruits too many project qbs. Franklin another great example. Nix I think may be really good, but hes going to have a ton pressure to succeed. Though he has a ton of long runs on his Youtube highlights, I still doubt hes as quick as NW or as dynamic a runner. 

[twilli13 600]

1 hour ago, corchjay said:

I kind of agree with you.  Sure everyone wants a great passer but what makes our run game hum is a guy who can keep the ball 10-15 times a game.  Moving the chains is the name of the game in the SEC.  

and I think our team this year would benefit if Stidham kept it 10 times a game as well.  

The trick here is we need a guy who can do both very effectively. When JFIII came into games, his presence opened the running game. Unfortunately he either couldn't or wasnt trusted to throw the ball. I lean towards not trusted because he couldn't as he was a backup everywhere he went. Conversely, guys like Stidham need dynamic run blocking and a great running back to open things up. Until we have a guy who is really good at both again or Gus gets some elite o lineman and backs, I think you'll see similar results. 

[twilli13 600]

11 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

The trick here is we need a guy who can do both very effectively. When JFIII came into games, his presence opened the running game. Unfortunately he either couldn't or wasnt trusted to throw the ball. I lean towards not trusted because he couldn't as he was a backup everywhere he went. Conversely, guys like Stidham need dynamic run blocking and a great running back to open things up. Until we have a guy who is really good at both again or Gus gets some elite o lineman and backs, I think you'll see similar results. 

So I think  one of the main underlying issues really is recruiting great players to fit needs. Gus's staffs recruiting, to me, always looks good on paper but fails to get the guys he needs to execute his offense consistently. Yeah we are always top 10 or near it, but it's always a random hodgepodge of guys with seemingly no theme or recruiting strategy involved. It seems we only take whatever the highest rated guys are that want to jump on board, regardless of anything else. 

[corchjay 5,311]

22 minutes ago, AURocketman said:

I’d like your opinion on what I consider as soft practice.  It’s nothing like good ole days.  Started with Chizic and may influence Gus.

I drank the koolaide when I saw Jeremy Johnson in practice.  He was very good while wearing an orange Penny Jersey.  (Non-contact).  I quit going but suspect same with Stidham.

id like your thoughts on a secondary effect.  What has jumped out since Chizic days is bad angle/arm tackling on defense.  During practice scrimmage they took angles for flag football. Perfect to tag as they run by.  I’d complain during games to everyone sitting by me because they looked like they did in practice.  It’s a half-step to to step behind in the angle to make a “form” tackle.  Mostly called arm tackling.  They practice arm tackling a lot in my opinion.  Mushchamp changed this, but this year it seems to have returned on defense.  

Extrapolate to the O-line.  One would think that blocking our DLine would make good test and evaluation of O-line talent.  If QBs are non-contact does the DL run through the wall as hard.  Easier to block someone putting on the breaks. You know the DL is not coming as hard as if they are trying to sack opponent QB. 

Isnt this a situation where you limit your ability to evaluate players at game speed?

I was at Scholarship practice and the only plays that were “live” were kicks and punts.  These are the highest percentage for injuries.  It was something wanted because we had been fumbling punts.  So it was few years ago.  I quit going because that are so lame under Gus.

We lack toughness.  Other teams “punch us in the mouth”.

 

Under Gus generally I'd say we have been fairly physical.  We are a power run team but we also have some slight of hand smoke and mirrors in the run game so all 300 yard rushing games aren't created equal.  

I've always been of the opinion you go live in spring with everyone regardless of what year the player is in or position.  You go live a couple scrimmages in the fall with at least 1 being live for the QB for timing and just getting back into a flow and you go live 15-20 plays in a game week on Wednesdays 1v1s or 1v2s no contact on the QB but thud on running backs and WRs that means hitting just not taking them to the ground and you can mix it up every week, like we are going every play is a first down play... 1st and 10...  and say the next week every play is 3rd and 8 or 3rd and 3...  

But our OL does need to be more physical and the in week hitting would probably help bring that along quicker.  They are still very inexperienced. 

[AUsince72 11,084]

2 hours ago, corchjay said:

Chip doesn't want out as bad as you think he does.  He's making bank and shouldering very little blame...  

At least on this forum, you're correct.

I don't think this is Chip's Offense nor is he TRULY in charge of game planning and available plays to call.

Unfortunately, unless the coaching world really does understand the inner workings of "Gus World" this is hurting Chip's coaching reputation for future gigs and you'd think he'd at least want to protect that.

[corchjay 5,311]

4 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

So I think  one of the main underlying issues really is recruiting great players to fit needs. Gus's staffs recruiting, to me, always looks good on paper but fails to get the guys he needs to execute his offense consistently. Yeah we are always top 10 or near it, but it's always a random hodgepodge of guys with seemingly no theme or recruiting strategy involved. It seems we only take whatever the highest rated guys are that want to jump on board, regardless of anything else. 

It's probably a little more indepth then that.  Maybe not good enough OL recruiting and development... Taking speed over football players on offense, taking tweeners on defense.  I'm very excited about Owen Pappoe in this years class but he's the classic example of taking a chance on size... he will either be an electric player or a bust.   

But we have to take some chances like that.  We always have had to because we don't generally walk into 5 star players and are their top choice because they are fans.  

[corchjay 5,311]

1 minute ago, AUsince72 said:

At least on this forum, you're correct.

I don't think this is Chip's Offense nor is he TRULY in charge of game planning and available plays to call.

Unfortunately, unless the coaching world really does understand the inner workings of "Gus World" this is hurting Chip's coaching reputation for future gigs and you'd think he'd at least want to protect that.

Chip is calling the plays and very involved in game planning.  I know both of those as absolute facts.  

And no it's not Chip's offense it's a mix and Gus and Chip, but it's not blended very well, but Chip knew it would be a mix when he signed on and his job is/was to develop QB's and make the pass game more flexible.   

The coaching world knows how each staff is.  There are close friends all over the country from different teams

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

2 hours ago, corchjay said:

Could be.  QB projection is very tough.  Stidham is about as highly rated a guy as you can get and has all the tools you could possibly want in a QB... but for whatever reason he processes information very slowly, he doesn't read defenses well at all and I'm not talking difficult schemes just normal "high schoolish" defensive schemes, and definitely wilts under pressure whether it be game pressure or pressure from the rush.   I don't want this to be a bash Stidham thread either.  

Yeah it's amazing he seemed to do this just fine with that when he played for Baylor and once the line gelled last season, he did excellent last season as well. 

Stidham would be an absolute superstar under a coach who knows how to use him. Put Stidham under Mike Leech, Bobby P, or Jimbo and he passes for 4,000 yards and pushes 50 TDs. Stidham under Gus (IN YEAR 2) will be lucky to push 2,000 and 10.

2 hours ago, OnthePlains said:

Make no mistake, Chip wants out. So if he leaves and someone tries to paint HIM as the problem then that’s just wrong. We know who the problem is...

We absolutely do. All one needs to do is look at Chips offenses before coming to Auburn. They look NOTHING alike. 

22 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

I dont see Joey ever playing QB in D1. Imo that's one of Gus's biggest issues. He recruits too many project qbs. Franklin another great example. Nix I think may be really good, but hes going to have a ton pressure to succeed. Though he has a ton of long runs on his Youtube highlights, I still doubt hes as quick as NW or as dynamic a runner. 

Everyone who complains about Stidham will complain even more about Bo. Bo is a shorter, smaller version of Stidham with less arm strength. 

Bo won't be much different than Sean White. 

That is if he even signs with us. If I'm Patrick Nix, there is 0 (ZERO) chance I get my son ruin his career playing QB for Gus Malzahn. With Bos game, he will be no different than the last two... One of which had the tools NFL scouts drool over... 

If I'm Bo, it's an easy choice. I go play under Jimbo, and actually have a shot at the next level. I don't see that happening here, unless some drastic changes are made... Changes that Gus has proven incapable of making. 

[Win4AU 4,054]

2 hours ago, corchjay said:

Could be.  QB projection is very tough.  Stidham is about as highly rated a guy as you can get and has all the tools you could possibly want in a QB... but for whatever reason he processes information very slowly, he doesn't read defenses well at all and I'm not talking difficult schemes just normal "high schoolish" defensive schemes, and definitely wilts under pressure whether it be game pressure or pressure from the rush.   I don't want this to be a bash Stidham thread either.  

You could hear Gus yelling from the sideline at Jarrett to throw it a couple times yesterday.  

[corchjay 5,311]

6 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

Yeah it's amazing he seemed to do this just fine with that when he played for Baylor and once the line gelled last season, he did excellent last season as well. 

Stidham would be an absolute superstar under a coach who knows how to use him. Put Stidham under Mike Leech, Bobby P, or Jimbo and he passes for 4,000 yards and pushes 50 TDs. Stidham under Gus (IN YEAR 2) will be lucky to push 2,000 and 10.

We absolutely do. All one needs to do is look at Chips offenses before coming to Auburn. They look NOTHING alike. 

Everyone who complains about Stidham will complain even more about Bo. Bo is a shorter, smaller version of Stidham with less arm strength. 

Bo won't be much different than Sean White. 

That is if he even signs with us. If I'm Patrick Nix, there is 0 (ZERO) chance I get my son ruin his career playing QB for Gus Malzahn. With Bos game, he will be no different than the last two... One of which had the tools NFL scouts drool over... 

If I'm Bo, it's an easy choice. I go play under Jimbo, and actually have a shot at the next level. I don't see that happening here, unless some drastic changes are made... Changes that Gus has proven incapable of making. 

Baylor was a 1 read offense not even remotely the same as now.  Plus every team in the Big 12 puts up 40 a game so apples to oranges.  Stidham has sought out pocket presence and reading defenses from AUs coaches, outside coaches, and Baylor coaches.  He still can’t even make correct run checks much less read defensive coverages.  No he doesn’t have a great OL in front of him but neither does Burrow at LSU.  Very similar situation but one is a gamer and leader and the other isn’t.  I’ll let you decide which is which...

I thought Sean was a fine QB just couldn’t stay healthy and had very little to do with OL or scheme.  He just got hurt.  Plus I’m not sure he was/is the athlete Bo is.  Bo isn’t a burner as a runner but he’s a danged good athlete.

[corchjay 5,311]

8 minutes ago, Win4AU said:

You could hear Gus yelling from the sideline at Jarrett to throw it a couple times yesterday.  

Absolutely zero anticipation of when to throw.  Gotta get a lot better

[AUsince72 11,084]

16 minutes ago, corchjay said:

Chip is calling the plays and very involved in game planning.  I know both of those as absolute facts.  

And no it's not Chip's offense it's a mix and Gus and Chip, but it's not blended very well, but Chip knew it would be a mix when he signed on and his job is/was to develop QB's and make the pass game more flexible.   

The coaching world knows how each staff is.  There are close friends all over the country from different teams

Don't get me wrong, I do believe Chip is calling plays and "involved" in the game plan.  ....and you certainly would know more than me...

However, this is the same tired offense that we've watched, outside of a few passing routes, for 4+ years.

Thus why I personally believe this is still 90% Gus' offense, Gus' "game plans" (which is the same one no matter who they play) and Chip's merely calling plays fed to him by Gus' play sheet.

I'm certainly no football genius but there's ample evidence that it doesn't take one to sniff out Gus' Offense.

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

3 minutes ago, corchjay said:

Absolutely zero anticipation of when to throw.  Gotta get a lot better

You are 100% correct. Man, one would think coaching could help with that? 

[corchjay 5,311]

1 minute ago, AUsince72 said:

Don't get me wrong, I do believe Chip is calling plays and "involved" in the game plan.  ....and you certainly would know more than me...

However, this is the same tired offense that we've watched, outside of a few passing routes, for 4+ years.

Thus why I personally believe this is still 90% Gus' offense, Gus' "game plans" (which is the same one no matter who they play) and Chip's merely calling plays fed to him by Gus' play sheet.

I'm certainly no football genius but there's ample evidence that it doesn't take one to sniff out Gus' Offense.

It’s Gus’ offense as it should be.  When execution is high it’s a great O when execution is poor it looks like this year or when we play tough defenses.  But that basically all offenses that why you must have a strong defense to win consistently 

[corchjay 5,311]

5 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

You are 100% correct. Man, one would think coaching could help with that? 

They are definitely trying and he’s trying his reads are just so slow.  Hate to do this but watch how fast Tua goes through his progressions he will get through 3 before Jarrett gets through one.  But it’s not all on Stidham everyone has to get better.

[AUsince72 11,084]

2 minutes ago, corchjay said:

It’s Gus’ offense as it should be.  When execution is high it’s a great O when execution is poor it looks like this year or when we play tough defenses.  But that basically all offenses that why you must have a strong defense to win consistently 

Well you know me..I would be on board with Gus' offense if he would use the correct pieces (especially QB).  I was STILL excited after 2013 as it reminded me of 90's Nebraska with Tommie Frazier and 1990 GA Tech with Sean Jones, the Colorado teams with Kordell Stewart, etc.  

However, I've been told over & over by friends on this forum that that won't work anymore either.  So if Gus' Offense won't work with the right QB (true DT, excellent runner) and we have seen that a pocket passer QB doesn't work, then no, it shouldn't be Gus' Offense anymore.

[corchjay 5,311]

I will say a few things that drives me crazy about coaching.  Nothing Xs and Os.  I actually love our base offense and defense...  but...

When you need a spark why not just try another player for a series... at QB, at RB, anywhere basically.  If the entire OL if you are trying to build a unit out of them and 1 or 2 are fricking up or fricking off... bench the whole group a series... put OL line number 2 in for a series and see what happens...

Stop kicking 50+ yard field goals this year.  If we are in no mans land either go for it on 4th or punt and hope we pin them deep.  

I understand trying to protect the D with getting a first down to go tempo but we have plenty of depth on defense lets go tempo old Chip Kelley style from the first snap.  The players seem to have more life and fire in tempo.  If it's a quick 3 and out so be it.  At least trying something a little different.  

Lets mix up defensive coverage just a little bit throughout the game.  Yes I love the attacking 1 on 1 style but when the QB and OC know the coverage every play it's kind of easy to scheme around.  

[corchjay 5,311]

9 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

Well you know me..I would be on board with Gus' offense if he would use the correct pieces (especially QB).  I was STILL excited after 2013 as it reminded me of 90's Nebraska with Tommie Frazier and 1990 GA Tech with Sean Jones, the Colorado teams with Kordell Stewart, etc.  

However, I've been told over & over by friends on this forum that that won't work anymore either.  So if Gus' Offense won't work with the right QB (true DT, excellent runner) and we have seen that a pocket passer QB doesn't work, then no, it shouldn't be Gus' Offense anymore.

Any scheme works if you execute.  Some may be a little better then other schemes but for the most part if you can win the majority of individual battles plus execute at a high rate you will put up points.  

[kwagoner 214]

2 hours ago, corchjay said:

 

and I think our team this year would benefit if Stidham kept it 10 times a game as well.  

Agreed. Sitting in the endzone, the middle opened up where he could have gotten 5-20 yards 4 or 5 times. Only once did he run. It could relieve pressure on OL and keying in on RB.

[aubcali 433]

Gus is not as safe as a lot of you guys think.