Leath on Malzahn

[triangletiger 1,599]

2 minutes ago, AURealist said:

Were Gus laser-focused on keeping his reputation as a genius, money would have been practically irrelevant and he'd have stayed on at Auburn for a lot less.  

He probably would have, but he has a good agent who does his job well.  He probably would have been okay with going to Arkansas too, if it came down to that.

[AURealist 2,185]

Just now, triangletiger said:

He probably would have, but he has a good agent who does his job well.  He probably would have been okay with going to Arkansas too, if it came down to that.

Probably not Arkansas.  Anyone leaving Auburn for Arkansas immediately looks like an idiot, not a genius.  

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

9 minutes ago, AU64 said:

agree....Sexton was likely out shopping Gus around after those wins over #1 teams...which upped the ante.....strike while the iron is hot.

As for fulfilling his contract, expect the big issues of the contract were the money, the term and the "don't get into trouble with NCAA" ….so what part of contract has he not lived up to?     AU is the one that appears not willing to live up to the contract ...or at least some AU fans who seem eager to shaft him to save the buyout. 

As you noted...AU willingly made the deal...and never heard of a deal with a coach that came with a "performance guarantee". AU not the first school with a buyout that is making it choke...Louisville and UNC both struggling with that issue right now. ...happens all the time and some of those schools got far less for their money than AU has thus far. As for Gus....if he's turned loose....I'm fine with that..... I never get attached to an athletic coach so that stuff does not bother me..as long as we are fair about it though I do object to an emotionally based change when it does not seem to have a plan or direction. ...and "winning more ball games" is not my idea of plan.JMO  

You know dang well if Leath had told Gus that we would wait until after the SECCG to do any contract Gus would never have left for Arky while he was still facing a possible CFP game. He would have waited till after. Then the price especially the buyout would have fallen dramatic. Anyone with any common sense would have told him he could leave or we will talk after the SECCG.

[triangletiger 1,599]

1 minute ago, AURealist said:

Probably not Arkansas.  Anyone leaving Auburn for Arkansas immediately looks like an idiot, not a genius.  

Well, that’s your perception as an Auburn fan.  Gus is from Arkansas and might see it differently.

[AU64 10,122]

1 minute ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

You know dang well if Leath had told Gus that we would wait until after the SECCG to do any contract Gus would never have left for Arky while he was still facing a possible CFP game. He would have waited till after. Then the price especially the buyout would have fallen dramatic. Anyone with any common sense would have told he could leave or we will talk after the SECCG.

second guessing is pretty easy....JMO possibly.     BUT... as long as the arky option was available the price was gonna be stiff and Sexton played that ...as he should have.  The negotiation with AU was not an isolated event.   …was more like an auction perhaps. 

[DAG 33,997]

5 minutes ago, AU64 said:

agree....Sexton was likely out shopping Gus around after those wins over #1 teams...which upped the ante.....strike while the iron is hot.

As for fulfilling his contract, expect the big issues of the contract were the money, the term and the "don't get into trouble with NCAA" ….so what part of contract has he not lived up to?     AU is the one that appears not willing to live up to the contract ...or at least some AU fans who seem eager to shaft him to save the buyout. 

As you noted...AU willingly made the deal...and never heard of a deal with a coach that came with a "performance guarantee". AU not the first school with a buyout that is making it choke...Louisville and UNC both struggling with that issue right now. ...happens all the time and some of those schools got far less for their money than AU has thus far. As for Gus....if he's turned loose....I'm fine with that..... I never get attached to an athletic coach so that stuff does not bother me..as long as we are fair about it though I do object to an emotionally based change when it does not seem to have a plan or direction. ...and "winning more ball games" is not my idea of plan.JMO  

The part where if you get paid more money, you go forward, not backwards. His ultimate responsibility is to make sure we are winning games. Do you really think not getting in trouble with the NCAA is his sole responsibility? You just stated that he probably got this contract because He beat two #1 teams. In fact, this has been your major tagline with Gus. I don't think he got this raise because he was staying out of trouble with the NCAA. Is that what you consider fulfilling a contract? 

[AURealist 2,185]

Just now, triangletiger said:

Well, that’s your perception as an Auburn fan.  Gus is from Arkansas and might see it differently.

It's a bad move from a coaching point of view.  If, as you say, Gus wants to be known as a coaching genius, he'd need to win to prove it.  It's much harder to be Top 20 successful at Arkansas than at Auburn.  

[keesler 5,925]

33 minutes ago, AURandy56 said:

Do we know for an absolute fact that Arkansas was making a big push for Gus, or was this Jimmy Sexton blowing smoke up Leath's backside? Wasn't Sexton Tuberville's agent? When Tubs was Auburn's coach, it seemed like his name was always in the mix for nearly every major college football coach job that came available. I think Sexton put the old Johnson up leath and made him like it. 

Nailed it Randy!  

They bent the AU Administration over and had their way with 'em ~ if Gus had wanted Jimmy to call off the dogs and take it easy on AU, then he woulda instructed him to do so.  Instead Gus stood right side ole Jimmy and drove it home like a 1970's John Holmes stud.

[AU64 10,122]

3 minutes ago, DAG said:

The part where if you get paid more money, you go forward, not backwards. His ultimate responsibility is to make sure we are winning games. Do you really think not getting in trouble with the NCAA is his sole responsibility? You just stated that he probably got this contract because He beat two #1 teams. In fact, this has been your major tagline with Gus. I don't think he got this raise because he was staying out of trouble with the NCAA. Is that what you consider fulfilling a contract? 

I was suggesting that staying out of trouble with the NCAA was probably the only "performance: type factor in the contract...the moral turpitude type stuff which U of L used to go after Pitino.     Winning X number of ballgames or beating some identified rival teams....don't think you are gonna get that in anyone's contract. 

Got his raise because Sexton/Gus asked for it....or demanded it in order to stay at AU....doubt that AU voluntarily offered it to keep him...JMO. 

[AUsince72 11,084]

Y'know.... something has just occurred to me.  A bit of Sunshine if you will.  Certainly a silver lining.

Consider the morons (whoever they were, officially) who were in charge of Gus' contract renegotiation.  

Now, consider had Gus left for Arky, those same morons would have been in charge of the new coach search.

So, yes, we have to suffer through another year or two of this ineptitude BUT....

At least Auburn will have the guy who was smart enough to make the morons keep Coach Bruce Pearl in charge of the coaching search for Gus' replacement.

So.... there's that. 🤗

And yes, I believe they'll need to replace Gus during or after next season.

[DAG 33,997]

1 minute ago, AU64 said:

I was suggesting that staying out of trouble with the NCAA was probably the only "performance: type factor in the contract...the moral turpitude type stuff which U of L used to go after Pitino.     Winning X number of ballgames or beating some identified rival teams....don't think you are gonna get that in anyone's contract. 

Got his raise because Sexton/Gus asked for it....or demanded it in order to stay at AU....doubt that AU voluntarily offered it to keep him...JMO. 

No crap they didn't voluntary give it.  I am done debating with you because I can ask you something direct and you refuse to answer it. You go to everything except the topic at hand.

[keesler 5,925]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

No crap they didn't voluntary give it.  I am done debating with you because I can ask you something direct and you refuse to answer it. You go to everything except the topic at hand.

AU64's slippery as an eel.    

[DAG 33,997]

Just now, keesler said:

AU64's slippery as an eel.    

I can ask this guy a simple question such as ”do you think Gus Malzhan performance this year has measured up to his top tier pay that he is INDEED entitled to?” and he will mention something about Texas A&M paying Jimbo Fisher lots of money  and look at their record. Haha, what?!

Total 64 move. 

[AURealist 2,185]

21 minutes ago, AUsince72 said:

Y'know.... something has just occurred to me.  A bit of Sunshine if you will.  Certainly a silver lining.

Consider the morons (whoever they were, officially) who were in charge of Gus' contract renegotiation.  

Now, consider had Gus left for Arky, those same morons would have been in charge of the new coach search.

So, yes, we have to suffer through another year or two of this ineptitude BUT....

At least Auburn will have the guy who was smart enough to make the morons keep Coach Bruce Pearl in charge of the coaching search for Gus' replacement (yes, I firmly believe that Gus will hang himself, figuratively of course, next season).

So.... there's that. 🤗

[triangletiger 1,599]

30 minutes ago, AURealist said:

It's a bad move from a coaching point of view.  If, as you say, Gus wants to be known as a coaching genius, he'd need to win to prove it.  It's much harder to be Top 20 successful at Arkansas than at Auburn.  

Agree on that point.

[triangletiger 1,599]

35 minutes ago, keesler said:

Nailed it Randy!  

They bent the AU Administration over and had their way with 'em ~ if Gus had wanted Jimmy to call off the dogs and take it easy on AU, then he woulda instructed him to do so.  Instead Gus stood right side ole Jimmy and drove it home like a 1970's John Holmes stud.

Why would Gus tell his agent to call off the dogs?  What motivation would he have to do that?  I don’t think his intention is screw over Auburn; I think he truly believes that he is a top-tier coach who ought to be paid as such (whatever that amount may be).  

 

Still, I don’t think that the amount of money in and of itself is what’s driving him.  His flaw is more of in the area of pride than greed.

[DAG 33,997]

3 minutes ago, triangletiger said:

Why would Gus tell his agent to call off the dogs?  What motivation would he have to do that?  I don’t think his intention is screw over Auburn; I think he truly believes that he is a top-tier coach who ought to be paid as such (whatever that amount may be).  Still, I don’t think that the amount of money in and of itself is what’s driving him.

Keesler was responding to a poster who suggested that Jimmy Sexton should've shown restraint. Why in God’s name should he have shown restraint when he is only doing Gus’s bidding.? That is where the absurdity is coming from. From Kessler point, if there needed to be restraint shown, it should’ve been from Gus, not Jimmy Sexton. 

[keesler 5,925]

 

14 minutes ago, DAG said:

Keesler was responding to a poster who suggested that Jimmy Sexton should've shown restraint. Why in God’s name should he have shown restraint when he is only doing Gus’s bidding.? That is where the absurdity is coming from. From Kessler point, if there needed to be restraint shown, it should’ve been from Gus, not Jimmy Sexton. 

Thank you DAG.

When regular posters on here learn to follow a thread and the context therein?

[twilli13 600]

The problem with this whole situation is we dont have any in depth football knowledge influencing these contract decisions. On the surface, giving Malzahn an extension and bigger buyout after beating 2 #1 teams and going to the sec title game when Arkansas appeared to come calling didnt seem to be the worst call in the world. They probably felt he had finally turned a corner. However, had the decision makers had someone involved in the process that knew football well, they would have evaluated our upcoming personnel losses the next few years and looked at past performance to determine there was a good chance Gus may regress. Had we been loaded at all positions the next few years (or at a minimum not had some major weak points), maybe the buyout (at least at a little smaller size) maybe would have made some logical sense. In this case, history repeated itself. Jay Jacob's gave Chizik, a career failure as a head coach, a huge contract after winning the natty knowing full well that Cam was a once in a generation player and almost all the major players on that title team weren't coming back. Both contracts were banking huge money on unproven commodities. Huge money on known commodities might make sense, huge money on unknowns. Not so much. 

[cctiger 571]

Leath on Malzhan. When I first seen this it reminded me of something that I once heard my dad say; "Son, that ain't nothing but stink on sh**!"

[PoetTiger 1,899]

1 hour ago, twilli13 said:

The problem with this whole situation is we dont have any in depth football knowledge influencing these contract decisions. On the surface, giving Malzahn an extension and bigger buyout after beating 2 #1 teams and going to the sec title game when Arkansas appeared to come calling didnt seem to be the worst call in the world. They probably felt he had finally turned a corner. However, had the decision makers had someone involved in the process that knew football well, they would have evaluated our upcoming personnel losses the next few years and looked at past performance to determine there was a good chance Gus may regress. Had we been loaded at all positions the next few years (or at a minimum not had some major weak points), maybe the buyout (at least at a little smaller size) maybe would have made some logical sense. In this case, history repeated itself. Jay Jacob's gave Chizik, a career failure as a head coach, a huge contract after winning the natty knowing full well that Cam was a once in a generation player and almost all the major players on that title team weren't coming back. Both contracts were banking huge money on unproven commodities. Huge money on known commodities might make sense, huge money on unknowns. Not so much. 

After winning the first natty for Auburn since freaking 1957...Chizik could have gotten the keys to the Auburn bank acct. Everyone was on cloud nine and I mean no one could forsee the collapse that came afterwards. How many national champion winning coaches have not gotten some type of extension after winning it all. It’s common practice in the business, so Auburn did what at that time seemed appropriate. The same with Gus, after beating UGA and UA back to back he kinda held the cards. Not to mention the thought of having to face Gus every season and the potential of Arky winning with a coach we had...yeah I can see why the contract was granted and approved. Everything is always clearer in hindsight for us on this board. But hey it is what it is now, and it has to me managed carefully without some knee jerk reaction. So Greene/Leath are saying and doing all the right things. But I am sure they have a list on hand of prospective replacements and also a list of improvements Gus needs to quickly act on if he wants to see the field after 2019.

[twilli13 600]

1 hour ago, PoetTiger said:

After winning the first natty for Auburn since freaking 1957...Chizik could have gotten the keys to the Auburn bank acct. Everyone was on cloud nine and I mean no one could forsee the collapse that came afterwards. How many national champion winning coaches have not gotten some type of extension after winning it all. It’s common practice in the business, so Auburn did what at that time seemed appropriate. The same with Gus, after beating UGA and UA back to back he kinda held the cards. Not to mention the thought of having to face Gus every season and the potential of Arky winning with a coach we had...yeah I can see why the contract was granted and approved. Everything is always clearer in hindsight for us on this board. But hey it is what it is now, and it has to me managed carefully without some knee jerk reaction. So Greene/Leath are saying and doing all the right things. But I am sure they have a list on hand of prospective replacements and also a list of improvements Gus needs to quickly act on if he wants to see the field after 2019.

I think your missing the whole point of my post. I get all the fans were on cloud 9 after the championship. That's when it's up to the cooler heads to prevail. Our defense was crap in the championship year. We lost most of our meaningful players the next year. We had a number one draft pick at QB and we were replacing him with a guy any nfl scout would tell you had no tangible nfl talent...oh and 4 starters on the o line, several who were all sec. No other schools were coming after Chizik, Jacobs just gave him an extension. Im not even sure Chiz was pushing it like Gus was. The Gus decision was even worse. For me, it wasnt hindsight. I knew he was capable of going right back down because his track record said so and we were losing key people. Making the best long term decision involves not getting caught in the nostalgia and making the smart call. I do t get paid to make thesedecisions, but if I did, I'd sure as hell put more logic into it than this clown show we have making football decisions. Whoever it really is. 

[PoetTiger 1,899]

27 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

I think your missing the whole point of my post. I get all the fans were on cloud 9 after the championship. That's when it's up to the cooler heads to prevail. Our defense was crap in the championship year. We lost most of our meaningful players the next year. We had a number one draft pick at QB and we were replacing him with a guy any nfl scout would tell you had no tangible nfl talent...oh and 4 starters on the o line, several who were all sec. No other schools were coming after Chizik, Jacobs just gave him an extension. Im not even sure Chiz was pushing it like Gus was. The Gus decision was even worse. For me, it wasnt hindsight. I knew he was capable of going right back down because his track record said so and we were losing key people. Making the best long term decision involves not getting caught in the nostalgia and making the smart call. I do t get paid to make thesedecisions, but if I did, I'd sure as hell put more logic into it than this clown show we have making football decisions. Whoever it really is. 

All valid points but I will say 95% of the time coaches that have won a natty or had successful seasons ala Chizik and Gus did, there are extensions granted. Does it lack logic...did someone have tunnel vision..maybe so. We rewarded one coach for winning it all and one was coming off a hot end to the season. In Chizik’s case...Did he deserve an extension or rework??....I can’t say but he only got what is common in the business after a natty. It had nothing to do with whether he was being pursued and even if he was, what AD would realistically think they could get a coach coming off a natty and heisman winner that easy. And again I’m not sure what the open market was at that time.  I’m sure Auburn would have did what was needed to keep him. As for Gus on paper it looked good for 2018, I personally would have not extended him, but then again there was Arky pursuing him and just maybe Auburn did not want to lose him to a rival. Regardless we can chop this wood all night. Both appear to be bad decisions in hindsight...however I can not fault those that made the decisions because at that time I can see how it made sense. Barring some last minute change of heart, he ain’t going nowhere so we may as well saddle up for 2019.

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

5 hours ago, AU64 said:

second guessing is pretty easy....JMO possibly.     BUT... as long as the arky option was available the price was gonna be stiff and Sexton played that ...as he should have.  The negotiation with AU was not an isolated event.   …was more like an auction perhaps. 

My point was that if he put him off till after the SEC game , no way was Gus going to Arky and miss it. After the game then things would have been entirely different. No way he takes Arky money if AU offered say 5 at 6.5. He knew he couldn’t win at Arky. If after he  lost like he did maybe Leath would have told him “have fun in Arky” .