FBI NCAA stuff

[steeleagle 2,945]

25 minutes ago, Maverick.AU said:

 

Now THAT is an interesting post. Even though it's not Jalen Green's twitter account I found out. 

[Maverick.AU 13,279]

36 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

Now THAT is an interesting post. Even though it's not Jalen Green's twitter account I found out. 

If Jalen Green had the twitter handle @pabloescobarner, I would be howling. 😂😂

I’ll also add I didn’t know the song choice when I posted it as I saw the tweet but my sound was muted. Lol, so just a language disclaimer for some, even tho it’s only one word

[boomstick 1,315]

32 minutes ago, Maverick.AU said:

If Jalen Green had the twitter handle @pabloescobarner, I would be howling. 😂😂

I’ll also add I didn’t know the song choice when I posted it as I saw the tweet but my sound was muted. Lol, so just a language disclaimer for some, even tho it’s only one word

Pretty sure Jalen’s twitter handle is @jalenromande

[slyinsocal 831]

1 hour ago, GwillMac6 said:

Everyone knows we were going to get a NOA. Wolken and forde in typical fashion are trying to make it a lot bigger deal than it really is. They didn't have close to the same energy when other schools got one or were heavily speculated to get one. 

They need to stop their bitching trying to stir the pot just because they didn't get their way and couldn't pin down on the record if we got one or not so they could get their clicks. So they had to resort to these tactics and whine about it on Twitter. Just absolute egregious acts of unorofessionalism again from both of them towards AU.

Go change your diaper your leaking Patty cakes and Danny boy.

As a young man who 30 years ago once wanted to be a part of that industry, it is refreshing to see these two hobo senior writers have elected to broadcast their infinite wit and wisdom for all to see, on Twitter, in the manner of Thayer Evans. The poster child for class and responsible journalism. Boy has he disappeared from the face of the earth....

[Maverick.AU 13,279]

6 minutes ago, boomstick said:

Pretty sure Jalen’s twitter handle is @jalenromande

I know it is! I was saying since he got it confused. I was just stating the fact if you looked at that if jalen actually had that @ lol

[slyinsocal 831]

Lack of institutional control and head coach responsibility is quite a broad brush, and would be a bit unfair in this particular situation. You can perform, document, and even video record all the appropriate compliance meetings and educational classes, which requires signatures indicating understanding and compliance. While the university issued phones have records, but there is no authority in the world giving the college, or the head coach, the power to monitor personal phones, bank transactions, money transfers, and cash exchanges. And you can still purchase a throw away phone with cash these days to hide your identity. Whether the NCAA likes it or not, there reaches a point where colleges and coaches have no choice to but to trust assistant coaches and players/families. They were so good at hiding their intentions, it took FBI wiretaps to uncover it in the first place. As soon as the school found out, punishments were swift and punitive. Minus the obvious visual signs of expensive cars, clothes, jewelry, electronics, and wads of cash all of a sudden being flashed around, maybe the NCAA can demonstrate some supernatural or governmental power colleges and head coaches are simply not aware of? Do colleges need/use private investigators?

[boomstick 1,315]

16 hours ago, slyinsocal said:

Lack of institutional control and head coach responsibility is quite a broad brush, and would be a bit unfair in this particular situation. You can perform, document, and even video record all the appropriate compliance meetings and educational classes, which requires signatures indicating understanding and compliance. While the university issued phones have records, but there is no authority in the world giving the college, or the head coach, the power to monitor personal phones, bank transactions, money transfers, and cash exchanges. And you can still purchase a throw away phone with cash these days to hide your identity. Whether the NCAA likes it or not, there reaches a point where colleges and coaches have no choice to but to trust assistant coaches and players/families. They were so good at hiding their intentions, it took FBI wiretaps to uncover it in the first place. As soon as the school found out, punishments were swift and punitive. Minus the obvious visual signs of expensive cars, clothes, jewelry, electronics, and wads of cash all of a sudden being flashed around, maybe the NCAA can demonstrate some supernatural or governmental power colleges and head coaches are simply not aware of? Do colleges need/use private investigators?

This is the fight we will put up if the HC responsibility or LOIC charges are handed down in the NOA. IMO I think you’ve nailed our compliance department’s stance on the issues. I just don’t trust the NCAA at all in these situations. 

[Tiger 8,826]

16 hours ago, slyinsocal said:

Lack of institutional control and head coach responsibility is quite a broad brush, and would be a bit unfair in this particular situation. You can perform, document, and even video record all the appropriate compliance meetings and educational classes, which requires signatures indicating understanding and compliance. While the university issued phones have records, but there is no authority in the world giving the college, or the head coach, the power to monitor personal phones, bank transactions, money transfers, and cash exchanges. And you can still purchase a throw away phone with cash these days to hide your identity. Whether the NCAA likes it or not, there reaches a point where colleges and coaches have no choice to but to trust assistant coaches and players/families. They were so good at hiding their intentions, it took FBI wiretaps to uncover it in the first place. As soon as the school found out, punishments were swift and punitive. Minus the obvious visual signs of expensive cars, clothes, jewelry, electronics, and wads of cash all of a sudden being flashed around, maybe the NCAA can demonstrate some supernatural or governmental power colleges and head coaches are simply not aware of? Do colleges need/use private investigators?

Tell em, Sly!

[keesler 5,924]

16 hours ago, slyinsocal said:

Lack of institutional control and head coach responsibility is quite a broad brush, and would be a bit unfair in this particular situation. You can perform, document, and even video record all the appropriate compliance meetings and educational classes, which requires signatures indicating understanding and compliance. While the university issued phones have records, but there is no authority in the world giving the college, or the head coach, the power to monitor personal phones, bank transactions, money transfers, and cash exchanges. And you can still purchase a throw away phone with cash these days to hide your identity. Whether the NCAA likes it or not, there reaches a point where colleges and coaches have no choice to but to trust assistant coaches and players/families. They were so good at hiding their intentions, it took FBI wiretaps to uncover it in the first place. As soon as the school found out, punishments were swift and punitive. Minus the obvious visual signs of expensive cars, clothes, jewelry, electronics, and wads of cash all of a sudden being flashed around, maybe the NCAA can demonstrate some supernatural or governmental power colleges and head coaches are simply not aware of? Do colleges need/use private investigators?

I'd have to think this is the angle the Auburn legal and Compliance team intend use in defense if the NOA has sites LOIC or HC's failure to monitor.  Hell, I'd venture to say those guys have been working in this defense for years now.  

If a Compliance Dept does everything in their power to educate the athletic staff and each student-athlete and they put measures in place for continuing education on compliance, then what else are they suppose to do when an Asst HC & alumni parents & active student-athletes choose of their own will to break the rules?

There has to be an "out" for a university and a HC who've educated people and can produce executed documents of mutual understanding of compliance issues that later go off on their own and screw up everything.  I understand you can not have crap like that going on, but Auburn paid a heavy price to right a wrong IMO.

 

 

[aubiefifty 16,791]

why does the ncaa and others have it in for bruce? has he not be squeaky clean since lying about having a recruit at a bbq at his home? and this crap with chuck has hurt us and i thought we gave ourselves some strong penalties while others have basically said it is not true like lsu's coach who was caught red handed on tape and still denied it? can someone basically explain why the folks are going after us even tho we took immediate action by firing folks and sitting players for a year? again. why? is bruce a jerk or something off camera to the ncaa? i doubt that but i just do not get any of this. if someone who understands all this can explain it so some of us can understand i would appreciate it.

[keesler 5,924]

32 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

why does the ncaa and others have it in for bruce? has he not be squeaky clean since lying about having a recruit at a bbq at his home? and this crap with chuck has hurt us and i thought we gave ourselves some strong penalties while others have basically said it is not true like lsu's coach who was caught red handed on tape and still denied it? can someone basically explain why the folks are going after us even tho we took immediate action by firing folks and sitting players for a year? again. why? is bruce a jerk or something off camera to the ncaa? i doubt that but i just do not get any of this. if someone who understands all this can explain it so some of us can understand i would appreciate it.

You agree that in light of Persons/Wiley/Purifoy's actions that the NCAA had to get involved, right?

Auburn under the direction of the NCAA self-imposed sanctions because the infractions were severe.  Auburn paid a heavy price for the actions of a selfish bunch of "Auburn" folks.  Auburn's defense has been that Bruce knew nothing.  

Now we come to the part where the NCAA has to follow the protocol's that were agreed upon by the member institutions (Auburn is a voluntary member institution and helped create those protocol's) where the NCAA has to provide an NOA listing infractions and the level of infractions.   Hopefully, Auburn won't get LOIC or HC failure to monitor, but what Persons & his selfish participant's did is a Level I infraction.  I believe Auburn paid for their misdeed's and should only get a probation period, and because Auburn was forthcoming and self-imposed (what the NCAA told them to do) I feel like and Level I infractions should be mitigated and reduce to Level II or lower just base on time served.  The NCAA (made up of member institutions) may not agree, but I feel like it's fair because I love Auburn and Pearl and basketball.

You mentioned LSU's coach caught red-handed.  The tapes he was allegedly found making his strong ass offers were sealed by the courts, they will never be heard by the NCAA.  Unless there's a money trail from LSU to a player, how can the NCAA levy punishment or sanctions?  

We want to believe Will Wade is paying players based on comments from a tape (we haven't even heard) and we think Wade should be hammered by the NCAA. At the same time We want to believe Bruce Pearl knew nothing about the actions of his Asst HC + two more staffer + 2 players + 2 sets of parents where there's evidence they accepted $$ and we think the NCAA should leave Pearl alone.

 

[bigbird 60,529]

Go the NC and LSU route

Hey NCAA!

[ellitor 33,093]

Hooks on the Head Coach Responsibility concerns FWIW

Quote

 

Bingo the NCAA since putting that rule in place has been looking for an opportunity to nail someone with it to make a point.

The silly thing is CBP would have had to have use a private eye, a phone tap and have Chuck followed to know what he was up to. There is just no way he could of had any idea as Chucks whole scheme was to put cash in his hands and get kids to leave AU for the NBA for the "agent" to get paid.

 

 

[twilli13 600]

10 hours ago, keesler said:

You agree that in light of Persons/Wiley/Purifoy's actions that the NCAA had to get involved, right?

Auburn under the direction of the NCAA self-imposed sanctions because the infractions were severe.  Auburn paid a heavy price for the actions of a selfish bunch of "Auburn" folks.  Auburn's defense has been that Bruce knew nothing.  

Now we come to the part where the NCAA has to follow the protocol's that were agreed upon by the member institutions (Auburn is a voluntary member institution and helped create those protocol's) where the NCAA has to provide an NOA listing infractions and the level of infractions.   Hopefully, Auburn won't get LOIC or HC failure to monitor, but what Persons & his selfish participant's did is a Level I infraction.  I believe Auburn paid for their misdeed's and should only get a probation period, and because Auburn was forthcoming and self-imposed (what the NCAA told them to do) I feel like and Level I infractions should be mitigated and reduce to Level II or lower just base on time served.  The NCAA (made up of member institutions) may not agree, but I feel like it's fair because I love Auburn and Pearl and basketball.

You mentioned LSU's coach caught red-handed.  The tapes he was allegedly found making his strong ass offers were sealed by the courts, they will never be heard by the NCAA.  Unless there's a money trail from LSU to a player, how can the NCAA levy punishment or sanctions?  

We want to believe Will Wade is paying players based on comments from a tape (we haven't even heard) and we think Wade should be hammered by the NCAA. At the same time We want to believe Bruce Pearl knew nothing about the actions of his Asst HC + two more staffer + 2 players + 2 sets of parents where there's evidence they accepted $$ and we think the NCAA should leave Pearl alone.

 

Why are those LSU tapes sealed by courts and the NCAA can never hear them when the FBI handed information about Auburn to the ncaa? I assume they did or would have otherwise why would Auburn have self imposed sanctions when Lsu did not. Did Auburn just niavely believe it was better to voluntarily confirm the wrongdoings whereas LSU told the ncaa to f off? 

[slyinsocal 831]

11 hours ago, keesler said:

I'd have to think this is the angle the Auburn legal and Compliance team intend use in defense if the NOA has sites LOIC or HC's failure to monitor.  Hell, I'd venture to say those guys have been working in this defense for years now.  

If a Compliance Dept does everything in their power to educate the athletic staff and each student-athlete and they put measures in place for continuing education on compliance, then what else are they suppose to do when an Asst HC & alumni parents & active student-athletes choose of their own will to break the rules?

There has to be an "out" for a university and a HC who've educated people and can produce executed documents of mutual understanding of compliance issues that later go off on their own and screw up everything.  I understand you can not have crap like that going on, but Auburn paid a heavy price to right a wrong IMO.

 

 

Some of this is a bit of a repeat, but I'd like to add another potential strategy to this saga. If Auburn has the confidence to do so, they should consider enlisting CP's testimony (players/family members as well?) during their presentation before the infractions committee. If CP is truly remorseful like he seems to be, then here's his chance to fall on the sword. Go before the committee. Tell his story. How could BP and the university possibly suspect the school's all time leader scorer? An ex NBA player and coach? A beloved figure to the program, to be involved in such a scheme? He was given a hero's welcome. As beloved as Charles Barkley. They didn't know he was broke. And with no prior criminal history or NCAA issues, why should they? His pride, stubbornness, and irrational fear of embarrassment and humiliation wouldn't allow him to ask for help. He was highly motivated to hide his actions. But he also knew he wouldn't be under suspicion and preyed on everyone's good faith. And now, his reputation and lifetime of hard work is all down the tubes. He managed to escape prison time, but the worse part still lingers. A whole lot of innocent people are still on the hook. The program is at stake. With his life hanging in the balance, he bared his soul before a Federal judge. He can do it again to save his former coach, players, and university. Innocent people suffering in perpetuity awaiting their fate, while he bears the shame of being cut off to protect them. Redemption can be a strong motivator. He has no real job prospects as a coach. Hell. Offer himself up. Maybe he has value as an advocate or a consultant for investigations into matters such as these. And not just basketball related either. Who would be better qualified to assist the NCAA? Sometimes you gotta hire a former crook to catch all the other crooks. Computer hackers, ex-casino cheats, etc. Make a deal. Offer up CP, a scholly, maybe some "minor" recruiting restrictions, a fine, etc. Absolutely no postseason ban, and no personnel terminations. Whatever is reasonable. If the NCAA is truly about fairness and justice then prove it. Otherwise, fight like hell. Threaten a very public, possibly nation wide lawsuit that could last for years. The NCAA's track record in court is not good lately. Can you imagine the national press reaction? They would salivate at the prospect of covering it. I dare say the discovery process alone would make the NCAA nervous, if the potential negative press weren't enough of a deterrent.

[slyinsocal 831]

26 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

Why are those LSU tapes sealed by courts and the NCAA can never hear them when the FBI handed information about Auburn to the ncaa? I assume they did or would have otherwise why would Auburn have self imposed sanctions when Lsu did not. Did Auburn just niavely believe it was better to voluntarily confirm the wrongdoings whereas LSU told the ncaa to f off? 

Wade was suspended with 1 game left in the regular season, and for the entire SEC and NCAA tournaments. Not saying that was enough by any stretch.

[twilli13 600]

7 hours ago, slyinsocal said:

Wade was suspended with 1 game left in the regular season, and for the entire SEC and NCAA tournaments. Not saying that was enough by any stretch.

So the school got 0 punishment other than that? Honestly that's a glorified slap on the wrist. 

[Sani-Freeze 552]

22 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

why does the ncaa and others have it in for bruce? has he not be squeaky clean since lying about having a recruit at a bbq at his home? and this crap with chuck has hurt us and i thought we gave ourselves some strong penalties while others have basically said it is not true like lsu's coach who was caught red handed on tape and still denied it? can someone basically explain why the folks are going after us even tho we took immediate action by firing folks and sitting players for a year? again. why? is bruce a jerk or something off camera to the ncaa? i doubt that but i just do not get any of this. if someone who understands all this can explain it so some of us can understand i would appreciate it.

I've been wondering the same thing, and I think this traces back to his recording a recruit and turning in Illinois 32 years ago, when he was an asst at Iowa. It's like he violated some unwritten coaching code that has caused the entire establishment to work against him ever since. He was blackballed from getting a D-1 job which is why he coached at Southern Indiana for a decade. What he did at Tenn was wrong, but it wasn't nearly bad enough to draw a 3-year show cause/ban - and yet they hammered him with it anyway. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

17 hours ago, ellitor said:

Chucks whole scheme was to put cash in his hands and get kids to leave AU for the NBA

I mean, if that's accurate, then there's no way Auburn's name should continue to be part of the conversation. 

Just doesn't make sense. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just now, Sani-Freeze said:

I've been wondering the same thing, and I think this traces back to his recording a recruit and turning in Illinois 32 years ago, when he was an asst at Iowa. It's like he violated some unwritten coaching code that has caused the entire establishment to work against him ever since. He was blackballed from getting a D-1 job which is why he coached at Southern Indiana for a decade. What he did at Tenn was wrong, but it wasn't nearly bad enough to draw a 3-year show cause/ban - and yet they hammered him with it anyway. 

I'm embarrassed to admit that I just found out about the Illinois thing recently. And I gotta say, I don't blame Illinois for holding a grudge.

Otherwise, though, it seems like folks should have let it go a couple decades back. 

(The media have certainly forgiven him. In fact, he's Exhibit A for why it's valuable to have a charismatic, available coach- doesn't even have to be nice- who makes their jobs easier instead of harder.) 

[Sani-Freeze 552]

6 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I'm embarrassed to admit that I just found out about the Illinois thing recently. And I gotta say, I don't blame Illinois for holding a grudge.

Otherwise, though, it seems like folks should have let it go a couple decades back. 

(The media have certainly forgiven him. In fact, he's Exhibit A for why it's valuable to have a charismatic, available coach- doesn't even have to be nice- who makes their jobs easier instead of harder.) 

If you follow the comments on various twitter threads about this, the Ill. folks are still RAVING mad - I mean like scary, bizarre, obsessed kind of furious - even three decades later.  Maybe Ill. has some influential boosters or something that have managed to stalk him all these years and try to make things more difficult at his later jobs. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, Sani-Freeze said:

If you follow the comments on various twitter threads about this, the Ill. folks are still RAVING mad - I mean like scary, bizarre, obsessed kind of furious - even three decades later.  Maybe Ill. has some influential boosters or something that have managed to stalk him all these years and try to make things more difficult at his later jobs. 

Ruh roh, Bruce done pissed off Abe Froman!

 

[Tiger 8,826]

36 minutes ago, Sani-Freeze said:

I've been wondering the same thing, and I think this traces back to his recording a recruit and turning in Illinois 32 years ago, when he was an asst at Iowa. It's like he violated some unwritten coaching code that has caused the entire establishment to work against him ever since. He was blackballed from getting a D-1 job which is why he coached at Southern Indiana for a decade. What he did at Tenn was wrong, but it wasn't nearly bad enough to draw a 3-year show cause/ban - and yet they hammered him with it anyway. 

Man it's strange. There seems to be more of a dark cloud over him within coaching circles because of the Illinois thing you mentioned. And the NCAA not feeling favorably towards Bruce was because he lied about the BBQ thing at UT. Which is more egregious than the "crime" itself but that was back when people actually thought the NCAA had any teeth. But it's kind of a weird place to be in, rival fans continue to say Bruce is dirty because of the UT thing...which is dumb, and rival coaches are mad at him for trying to out someone for breaking the rules. It's a truly bizarre in-between area.

And don't get me wrong -- I get why Illinois fans are mad. I mean 30 years later while I may not be mad I could definitely see why it's fun and easy to pile on Bruce on the internet as an Illini fan. But I bet they wish Bruce was coaching their 18-9 team right now.

[steeleagle 2,945]

29 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Man it's strange. There seems to be more of a dark cloud over him within coaching circles because of the Illinois thing you mentioned. And the NCAA not feeling favorably towards Bruce was because he lied about the BBQ thing at UT. Which is more egregious than the "crime" itself but that was back when people actually thought the NCAA had any teeth. But it's kind of a weird place to be in, rival fans continue to say Bruce is dirty because of the UT thing...which is dumb, and rival coaches are mad at him for trying to out someone for breaking the rules. It's a truly bizarre in-between area.

And don't get me wrong -- I get why Illinois fans are mad. I mean 30 years later while I may not be mad I could definitely see why it's fun and easy to pile on Bruce on the internet as an Illini fan. But I bet they wish Bruce was coaching their 18-9 team right now.

I know... it's mind boggling how many up there still just hate him. I will read all these online articles about Pearl, with his coaching flare, his success at Auburn over the last 3 years. And if those online articles have a comments section after, There will be so many commenters that just spew negative stuff about him. It's like they follow him, and troll him JUST so they can talk bad about him still about something that happened over 30 years ago. 

And when we lost in the Final Four, they came out for sure, with tweets and such, saying it was the best thing to happen to Pearl and karma and all that crap.

I believe besides the fact that Illinois got put on probation b/c of him, he also cost them top level recruits, who were going to sign with Illinois but changed their minds when they weren't sure if Illinois would escape the NCAA penalties. Cuonzo Martin was one of those high sought after players who changed his school of choice. And believe me in that hot-bed area of college basketball, you don't mess with their recruiting, evidently as Pearl did.

But let me add this...I don't think the NCAA holds a grudge like the media or fans do against Pearl. But since he has a history with the NCAA, and with them being lit up for not being proactive in the college basketball corruption that goes on, then they might try to use Pearl as an example of how they are still the top dog in college athletics power...

[Tiger 8,826]

17 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

I know... it's mind boggling how many up there still just hate him. I will read all these online articles about Pearl, with his coaching flare, his success at Auburn over the last 3 years. And if those online articles have a comments section after, There will be so many commenters that just spew negative stuff about him. It's like they follow him, and troll him JUST so they can talk bad about him still about something that happened over 30 years ago. 

And when we lost in the Final Four, they came out for sure, with tweets and such, saying it was the best thing to happen to Pearl and karma and all that crap.

I believe besides the fact that Illinois got put on probation b/c of him, he also cost them top level recruits, who were going to sign with Illinois but changed their minds when they weren't sure if Illinois would escape the NCAA penalties. Cuonzo Martin was one of those high sought after players who changed his school of choice. And believe me in that hot-bed area of college basketball, you don't mess with their recruiting, evidently as Pearl did.

But let me add this...I don't think the NCAA holds a grudge like the media or fans do against Pearl. But since he has a history with the NCAA, and with them being lit up for not being proactive in the college basketball corruption that goes on, then they might try to use Pearl as an example of how they are still the top dog in college athletics power...

Oh man nothing triggers midwestern trolls quite like a Bruce Pearl sighting.

I get it, nobody likes Eric Ramsey around here. But we aren't just waiting for random moments to pounce on him either lol. We've moved past it. I think you're spot on though -- basketball recruiting up there is like football recruiting down in the deep south. I hope you're right in that the NCAA doesn't see Pearl as an enemy. I think the media just kind of rehashes his past with the NCAA to bolster their articles about him and get the AU fanbase riled up when it comes to potential penalties. One thing working in our corner is that at least there are way more issues directly tied to Bill Self, Sean Miller, Will Wade etc which could be more beneficial for them to make an example out of rather than Bruce who really had no hand in this at all. It would be going against his and AU's interest to pay kids to hire a financial advisor to leave school early. The other guys were making strong ass offers to get kids to sign to their schools