The Moral and Strategic Calculus of Voting for Joe Biden to Defeat Trump — or Not

[DAG 33,995]

Just now, homersapien said:

I've seen some strong opinion pieces for making Warren his VP candidate.

I really like Warren. Logically, she would appeal to those who desperately want to shake up the status quo. (All those progressives David keeps talking about.)

I want just want the strongest possible candidate, whomever it is. 

Honestly I am just going to come out and say it. As much as I want the strongest candidate possible I think it will definitely be a big push to have a minority female VP.  It was a major reason why senator klobucher removed herself from VP running (whom I was sure would mesh the best with him). With that being said, if he did pick Warren, this would be an interesting dichotomy. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

8 minutes ago, DAG said:

Man, I really liked Mayor Pete. For the most part I truly loved the substance he did bring. His military background absolutely resonated with me. I also loved how he is one of the few who will stand up and say I got it wrong. That will caught my eyes. I think having the wine cave fundraisers though was truly his death sentence , especially when there was big push resisting elitist hand grabbing. 

Oh Mayor Pete was by far my favorite candidate.

[homersapien 11,388]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

Honestly I am just going to come out and say it. As much as I want the strongest candidate possible I think it will definitely be a big push to have a minority female VP.  It was a major reason why senator klobucher removed herself from VP running (whom I was sure would mesh the best with him). With that being said, if he did pick Warren, this would be an interesting dichotomy. 

That's been pretty much my assumption as well.

I voted for Klobucher in the primary.  If the Democrats can assure her replacement is a Democrat, she'll play a significant role in Biden's administration.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I've seen some strong opinion pieces for making Warren his VP candidate.

While I didn't vote for her, I really like Warren. Logically, she would appeal to those who desperately want to shake up the status quo. (All those progressives David keeps talking about.)

I mainly want the strongest possible candidate, whomever it is. 

Here's the catch though.  You can't go too progressive with the pick.  Biden is 78.  People will legitimately be thinking about "what if he dies" while in office.  He needs someone slightly left of him, but not so far left as to turn off the moderate voters he needs to win.

Trump arguably has the same problem, seeing that he's 76 and overweight.  The advantage Trump does have is that Pence is a known commodity at this point.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, DAG said:

Honestly I am just going to come out and say it. As much as I want the strongest candidate possible I think it will definitely be a big push to have a minority female VP.  It was a major reason why senator klobucher removed herself from VP running (whom I was sure would mesh the best with him). With that being said, if he did pick Warren, this would be an interesting dichotomy. 

In my opinion, some of the best candidates just happen to be minority females. I think Harris and Demings would be great, but their legal/police backgrounds could be problematic. I wish Abrams could've survived vetting. 

[homersapien 11,388]

1 minute ago, Brad_ATX said:

Oh Mayor Pete was by far my favorite candidate.

Maybe I'm too cynical about the electorate and our culture, but I felt the prospect of a "first spouse" in the white house was a little too risky.  He's also very young.

If we had a more-or-less "normal" person as president instead of the disaster we have, I would be more risk-tolerant regarding the possibility of losing.

[DAG 33,995]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

That's been pretty much my assumption as well.

I voted for Klobucher in the primary.  If the Democrats can assure her replacement is a Democrat, she'll play a significant role in Biden's administration.

Correct . I will say I did find that admirable that she was wise enough to say this is not my moment. Now, it is important to find the most qualified VP candidate and by making that stance I don’t necessarily think that compromises that message. I kind of wanted Biden to do that too prior to him putting his hat in the presidential campaigning. I hate to say it but at the end of the day, whether you are blue or red, people will always lean towards “the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t.” I feel as if that reared it’s ugly head ultimately. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, Brad_ATX said:

Trump arguably has the same problem, seeing that he's 76 and overweight.  The advantage Trump does have is that Pence is a known commodity at this point.

To the first sentence, exactly. This is why it's telling when some of the supposed centrists and independents act like Biden's age disqualifies him. As a great candidate, sure. But as the better one in this election, that just doesn't make the least bit of sense.

To the second sentence, that should be as much of a disadvantage as an advantage. But I suppose that's the double edged sword of stability and fear of the unknown. Hard to lean on it in favor of Biden but shy a way from it when discussing the VP. 

[homersapien 11,388]

4 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Here's the catch though.  You can't go too progressive with the pick.  Biden is 78.  People will legitimately be thinking about "what if he dies" while in office.  He needs someone slightly left of him, but not so far left as to turn off the moderate voters he needs to win.

Trump arguably has the same problem, seeing that he's 76 and overweight.  The advantage Trump does have is that Pence is a known commodity at this point.

Proposing "Medicare for all" as the only option was a big mistake for her.

[DAG 33,995]

4 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

In my opinion, some of the best candidates just happen to be minority females. I think Harris and Demings would be great, but their legal/police backgrounds could be problematic. I wish Abrams could've survived vetting. 

I agree but I will say no to Kamala for the reason you just said. IMO, she will not resonate well with a portion of the African American community for her criminal justice record. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, DAG said:

I agree but I will say no to Kamala for the reason you just said. IMO, she will not resonate well with a portion of the African American community for her criminal justice record. 

I was surprised to see those two surge these last couple months. I think they could do the job, but I fear exactly what you said. 

Rice is also a very strong candidate. I don't know enough about Duckworth yet, but she checks a lot of boxes. 

[homersapien 11,388]

11 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

In my opinion, some of the best candidates just happen to be minority females. I think Harris and Demings would be great, but their legal/police backgrounds could be problematic. I wish Abrams could've survived vetting. 

I thought she wasn't being vetted at all, not that she didn't "survive" it?

I really like her.

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just now, homersapien said:

I thought she wasn't being vetted at all, not that she didn't "survive" it?

I really like her.

Sorry, I played it fast and loose with the word "vetting" there. You're right that she's no longer in the running.

[aubiefifty 16,807]

1 hour ago, savorytiger said:

But in the end one of them has to win, and no one here wants to see that.

not true. i will gladly take biden over trump anyday. my concern is whom he picks for vp. donald continues to stomp on the constitution and he is hurting people, killing people, and still has children locked up in cages. sorry it is not even close.

[aubiefifty 16,807]

and let me say this. if biden pulls the same level crap trump does i will be on him as well if that makes you feel better.

[homersapien 11,388]

36 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Sorry, I played it fast and loose with the word "vetting" there. You're right that she's no longer in the running.

I wonder why?  She would kill Pence in a debate.

(And I agree with you about Rice.)

[McLoofus 35,182]

Just now, homersapien said:

I wonder why?  She would kill Pence in a debate.

My wife posited a lack of executive experience (fair) and also some personal debt issues (?).

[aubiefifty 16,807]

4 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

We'll see. We have people hurting like hell in America right at this moment. Healthcare, Minimum Wage, Education, etc etc etc.

If you think the Corporate Democrats are going to do anything to help those folks, you are stoned. Just look at the Summit. And if Progressives dont mean anything, than please quit trying to shame them into voting for Biden. Just stop. Afterall, they are "irrelevant." Already got the coalition built and Biden is already President, apparently. The Democrats already had a stranglehold on DC in 2009-2010. Did any of their Masters on Wall Street get arrested after the 2008 Implosion? Tried? Convicted? Hell they werent even Investigated. SSDD. What would have been different if the Republicans had been in power? Nothing.

As for writing off the Progressives? Sounds just like 2016 to me.

i disagree. while everyone knows your guy lost i think trump has gone so far over the edge most people would rather tread water than four more years of damage under trump who believes is he above the law. how can you respect the law if you hold yourself above it. and people have a right to vote for whom they want but if folks write in they throw their votes away on a lost cause the only person it helps is trump. and we cannot hold trump accountable if we cannot get him out of office. is this really what you want?

[savorytiger 182]

38 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

not true. i will gladly take biden over trump anyday. my concern is whom he picks for vp. donald continues to stomp on the constitution and he is hurting people, killing people, and still has children locked up in cages. sorry it is not even close.

Oh, I was talking about Bama vs UGA. I'm firmly on the Biden may not be an improvement over standard DC politics, but Trump is actively harming us side. 

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, savorytiger said:

Oh, I was talking about Bama vs UGA. I'm firmly on the Biden may not be an improvement over standard DC politics, but Trump is actively harming us side. 

Yet another excellent, concise way of saying it.

[AUFAN78 3,911]

6 hours ago, DAG said:

who offer real substance solutions to the problems effecting people at the micro level

Been thru this for years. 8 years to be exact with Obama/Biden. I can tell you in the inner city nothing really changed. Expect the same with a Biden victory. Sad.

[AUFAN78 3,911]

5 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Biden is 78. 

No he is not. Oh wait, you were talking about his age. 

[AUFAN78 3,911]

5 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

and let me say this. if biden pulls the same level crap trump does i will be on him as well if that makes you feel better.

He already did fidy. Research.

[AUFAN78 3,911]

Only in America can one vote for our grandpa with early onset dementia and smile. Amazing.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

5 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

i disagree. while everyone knows your guy lost i think trump has gone so far over the edge most people would rather tread water than four more years of damage under trump who believes is he above the law. how can you respect the law if you hold yourself above it. and people have a right to vote for whom they want but if folks write in they throw their votes away on a lost cause the only person it helps is trump. and we cannot hold trump accountable if we cannot get him out of office. is this really what you want?

I don’t buy into this about a third vote being a vote for Trump. That’s crap, it’s a vote for neither and one that I can live with considering I don’t like either choice. Hurts both just the same. 

 

If it comes down to one vote then that also tells us everything we need to know.