homersapien 11,415 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 This is the topic Loofus and I have opined on. It certainly has me pegged - I saw through Trump way before the election, or even before he ran for office. Like the excerpts I posted, his solid support it's all about grievance, culture war and identity politics mixed with the current climate of (dis)information sources. The eerie stability of Trump’s approval rating, explained. https://www.vox.com/2020/9/2/21409364/trump-approval-rating-2020-election-voters-coronavirus-convention-polls excerpts: ..........“If you went into Trump’s presidency thinking he’s a racist, sexist, xenophobic, immoral, narcissistic, corrupt, and incompetent person — beliefs held by most Clinton voters — then there’s literally almost nothing he could do to change your mind,” says Tesler. The same is true in reverse. “If you see Trump as ‘the protector of Western Civilization,’ as Charlie Kirk called him the other night at the RNC, or the protector of white America, as Desmond King and Rogers Smith have called him, defending cherished (white Christian) American values from atheist, left-wing socialists who want to take your guns and put Cory Booker in charge of diversifying your neighborhoods, then there’s almost nothing that would make you abandon him,” Tesler continues..........." ........"Where past presidents made concerted efforts to shift course as their presidencies evolved, pursuing unexpected policies to win over skeptics and new messages to quiet critics, Trump is just Trump. He’s reliably, inalterably, himself. Your view of the man is your view of the presidency, and that’s the way he wants it."...... ".........It is telling that Trump’s strategy for winning reelection doesn’t seem to be a new message or a new plan for controlling the coronavirus or restarting the economy. Instead, he’s running a racialized campaign against protests, riots, and disorder — even though that disorder is happening on his watch as president. “The GOP has no policies so they deal entirely in grievance and identity,” says Lilliana Mason, a political scientist at the University of Maryland........." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,415 Posted September 2, 2020 Author Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 minute ago, homersapien said: This is the topic Loofus and I have opined on. It certainly has me pegged - I saw through Trump way before the election, or even before he ran for office. As the excerpts I posted suggest, the solid support from his base is about grievance, culture war and identity politics mixed with the modern abundance of (dis)information sources than it is about actual performance. Sounds about right to me. The eerie stability of Trump’s approval rating, explained. https://www.vox.com/2020/9/2/21409364/trump-approval-rating-2020-election-voters-coronavirus-convention-polls excerpts: ..........“If you went into Trump’s presidency thinking he’s a racist, sexist, xenophobic, immoral, narcissistic, corrupt, and incompetent person — beliefs held by most Clinton voters — then there’s literally almost nothing he could do to change your mind,” says Tesler. The same is true in reverse. “If you see Trump as ‘the protector of Western Civilization,’ as Charlie Kirk called him the other night at the RNC, or the protector of white America, as Desmond King and Rogers Smith have called him, defending cherished (white Christian) American values from atheist, left-wing socialists who want to take your guns and put Cory Booker in charge of diversifying your neighborhoods, then there’s almost nothing that would make you abandon him,” Tesler continues..........." ........"Where past presidents made concerted efforts to shift course as their presidencies evolved, pursuing unexpected policies to win over skeptics and new messages to quiet critics, Trump is just Trump. He’s reliably, inalterably, himself. Your view of the man is your view of the presidency, and that’s the way he wants it."...... ".........It is telling that Trump’s strategy for winning reelection doesn’t seem to be a new message or a new plan for controlling the coronavirus or restarting the economy. Instead, he’s running a racialized campaign against protests, riots, and disorder — even though that disorder is happening on his watch as president. “The GOP has no policies so they deal entirely in grievance and identity,” says Lilliana Mason, a political scientist at the University of Maryland........." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdefromtx 3,159 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 I think it is because so many people are tired politics and shady politicians......and frankly don't give a s**t any more. That would be my cliff notes version of why people still approve of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj3jordan 2,058 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 Evolving and shifting course to gain new support from other groups is something Trump has and would excel at. And I am sure he would have during his first term had it not been consumed from before inauguration with constant attacks accusations of racism mysogeny homophobia islamophobia being a russian agent blah blah blah. Can't say I fault him for fighting back and hardening his heart toward his political rivals turned insane haters. Why you think a throws a bone of compliments toward almost every rival or enemy he has at various times. That is what businessmen do. Politicians don't do that. Trump would have loved to find some common ground on various subjects to compromise with democrats on. He would have done it against the advice of the republican party. But the democrats never gave him the chance. It was all attack 24/7 from print media television radio op-eds magazines social media smoke signals etc. That is why despite what you, Homer, claim to have seen through, and all of your amateur psychiatric diagnoses, don't understand about his base. It is easy to stick with Trump. He loves his base and if it drives democrats and people like you insane, then we must be doing something right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,415 Posted September 2, 2020 Author Share Posted September 2, 2020 19 hours ago, jj3jordan said: Evolving and shifting course to gain new support from other groups is something Trump has and would excel at. And I am sure he would have during his first term had it not been consumed from before inauguration with constant attacks accusations of racism mysogeny homophobia islamophobia being a russian agent blah blah blah. Can't say I fault him for fighting back and hardening his heart toward his political rivals turned insane haters. Why you think a throws a bone of compliments toward almost every rival or enemy he has at various times. That is what businessmen do. Politicians don't do that. Trump would have loved to find some common ground on various subjects to compromise with democrats on. He would have done it against the advice of the republican party. But the democrats never gave him the chance. It was all attack 24/7 from print media television radio op-eds magazines social media smoke signals etc. That is why despite what you, Homer, claim to have seen through, and all of your amateur psychiatric diagnoses, don't understand about his base. It is easy to stick with Trump. He loves his base and if it drives democrats and people like you insane, then we must be doing something right. He loves anyone who feeds his narcissism (as long as they are doing so). The fact you think he could love you for anything else, just demonstrates either, 1) you don't understand him at all and 2) you are quite gullible. You really owe it to yourself to read up on Trump's history - the ones written by the people who do know him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autigeremt 6,660 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, wdefromtx said: I think it is because so many people are tired politics and shady politicians......and frankly don't give a s**t any more. That would be my cliff notes version of why people still approve of him. That and the Democrats decision to BURN THIS s*** DOWN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj3jordan 2,058 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, homersapien said: He loves anyone who feeds his narcissism (as long as they are doing so). The fact you think he loves you for anything else, just demonstrates 1) you don't understand him at all and 2) you are quite gullible. You really owe it to yourself to read up on his history - written by the people who do know him. More amateur psychobabble from homer. Pretty sure I understand him way better than you. You want me to read up on Bidens history too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,415 Posted September 2, 2020 Author Share Posted September 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, autigeremt said: That and the Democrats decision to BURN THIS s*** DOWN. Democrats want to BURN THIS s*** DOWN???! Mercy! I'll have to reconsider my support for Biden. What's happened to you emt? You're starting to sound like my sister who watches Fox 24/7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autigeremt 6,660 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 minute ago, homersapien said: Democrats want to BURN THIS s*** DOWN???! Mercy! I'll have to reconsider my support for Biden. What's happened to you emt? I've seen, watched and heard enough. I've been very hard (and deservedly so) on the two parties and the horrible leadership. I'm sick of it all...and now more than ever. I can't stand President Trump but the Democrats have made it clear that I am not important enough as a liberty loving American to even consider their options at this time. While I will NOT promote the orange man I won't even consider the divisive nature in which the Democrats have decided to go. They are as far from my beliefs as ever in almost every category outside of the environment (and hell...look at how their followers leave cities after protesting). Black Americans in Democrat led cities have been taken advantage of for too long. Don't even expect me to vote for that crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,415 Posted September 2, 2020 Author Share Posted September 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, autigeremt said: I've seen, watched and heard enough. I've been very hard (and deservedly so) on the two parties and the horrible leadership. I'm sick of it all...and now more than ever. I can't stand President Trump but the Democrats have made it clear that I am not important enough as a liberty loving American to even consider their options at this time. While I will NOT promote the orange man I won't even consider the divisive nature in which the Democrats have decided to go. They are as far from my beliefs as ever in almost every category outside of the environment (and hell...look at how their followers leave cities after protesting). Black Americans in Democrat led cities have been taken advantage of for too long. Don't even expect me to vote for that crap. You'll need to be more explicit on this part if you want to understand. All I am seeing is a lot of nihilistic, inchoate anger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdefromtx 3,159 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 33 minutes ago, autigeremt said: That and the Democrats decision to BURN THIS s*** DOWN. That’s just the cherry on top!! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autigeremt 6,660 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 8 hours ago, homersapien said: You'll need to be more explicit on this part if you want to understand. All I am seeing is a lot of nihilistic, inchoate anger. I really don’t care what you see. And I don’t owe you a damn thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,415 Posted September 3, 2020 Author Share Posted September 3, 2020 11 hours ago, autigeremt said: I really don’t care what you see. And I don’t owe you a damn thing. I don't feel like you "owe" me clarification but I see no harm in asking for it. (This is supposed to be the "serious" forum, after all. Didn't mean to upset you or to make you angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autigeremt 6,660 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 On 9/3/2020 at 11:01 AM, homersapien said: I don't feel like you "owe" me clarification but I see no harm in asking for it. (This is supposed to be the "serious" forum, after all. Didn't mean to upset you or to make you angry. Try having been a soldier, a coastie, a cop, a firefighter, a hazmedic and a paramedic watching all this s#%^! Angry isn’t the beginning of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
autigeremt 6,660 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Slap that face ichy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,415 Posted September 5, 2020 Author Share Posted September 5, 2020 2 hours ago, autigeremt said: Try having been a soldier, a coastie, a cop, a firefighter, a hazmedic and a paramedic watching all this s#%^! Angry isn’t the beginning of it. Thanks for your service. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey 16,671 Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 My mind could have been changed to vote for Trump's opposition this time. Sadly, the Dems ticket is so far to the left that I'll be voting for Trump in person, just to be certain my vote gets counted. The Dem's offering of a Washington insider in the early stages of dementia and the most radical lefty senator available would wreck this nation should they win. It's not about Trump, it's about the horrible alternatives. Four more years of Trump looks great by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperAUsome09 738 Posted September 6, 2020 Share Posted September 6, 2020 There’s no changing minds on this. The divide between the two candidates is too far. This election is solely “It’s not Biden/Trump”. Policies be d***ed. Just like last election. So ultimately, it’s a waste of time changing minds with either side. Trump is a POS but it’s ok for Biden to say frankly “If you question who to vote for you, ain’t black” or.... Biden has clearly lost cognitive ability, yet it’s ok for Trump to make some of the boneheaded statements he does frequently. smh....that is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,415 Posted September 6, 2020 Author Share Posted September 6, 2020 .......The Atlantic report clearly stung. Witness Trump’s frenzied denials; he even called in the first lady to defend him. But a president who has lied or deceived more than 20,000 times has no credibility — and his defense quickly fell apart. Trump denied having called the late Sen. John McCain a “loser,” yet he did so in 2015. The Atlantic report was confirmed in short order by the Associated Press, The Post and — the cruelest blow — even by Fox News. Confirmation from a Fox reporter did not, of course, prevent Fox hosts from calling the report a “hoax,” but if history is any indication, it won’t be long before they pivot from “he didn’t do it” to “yeah, he did it, so what?” Indeed, a “senior administration official” already tried out that defense with the Daily Beast: “The president means no disrespect to our troops; it’s just that the way he speaks, he can sound like an a------ sometimes.” Why do Trump supporters even go through the motions of trying to discredit the latest allegations? Their support hasn’t been shaken by all of the other things the president has done. He has welcomed Russian election help; called white supremacists “very fine people”; put children in cages; gotten impeached for trying to blackmail an ally into helping him politically; kowtowed to Vladimir Putin and avowed his love for Kim Jong Un; unleashed security forces on peaceful protesters; fomented violence; espoused insane conspiracy theories; refused to say that he would accept the election results; and, most recently, urged his fans to vote twice in violation of the law. He has erased every red line, and none of it seems to matter to his base. He entered office with 45.5 percent approval in the FiveThirtyEight poll of polls. Today he stands at 43.5 percent. Nearly four years of craziness — and his numbers have barely budged. Most remarkably of all, even Trump’s catastrophic mishandling of the covid-19 pandemic and of the economy haven’t dented his popularity. If you had asked me at the beginning of the year what one thing could cause Trump’s support to crater, I would have said a recession. Well, we’ve had the worst recession since the 1930s, combined with the worst pandemic since 1918. Nearly 200,000 Americans have already died — and a widely respected polling model predicts 400,000 deaths by January. Trump’s response has been a combination of inertia, denial and fantasy. He said, “I don’t take responsibility at all,” and he mused about injecting bleach. One study found that at least 70 percent of the U.S. deaths could have been averted if our response had been comparable to that of other wealthy countries. In other words, some 134,000 Americans might still be alive today if Trump were a competent president. And yet his poll numbers remain remarkably steady. His malign incompetence has certainly cost him some support: He is the one president in the history of polling to never crack 50 percent approval, and he has not gotten the kind of polling bump that other leaders have seen during the pandemic. But neither has his support cratered as, by rights, it should have. Richard M. Nixon, who was far more competent and ethical than Trump, saw his approval fall to 24 percent. Trump remains within striking distance of reelection. How can this be? The only explanation I can see is that his supporters place party loyalty above all else. Trump is the leader of red America, and red America will stick with him no matter what, because, despite all evidence to the contrary, it is convinced that Joe Biden will somehow be worse. There is nothing, literally nothing, that Trump could do to shake the support of the Fifth Avenue Republicans. This is the Founding Fathers’ nightmare. Alexander Hamilton called “Party-Spirit” the “most fatal disease” in “governments of the popular kind.” That disease is ravaging America: Were it not for Party-Spirit, Trump could have been impeached and removed before he had a chance to mismanage the coronavirus. And now Party-Spirit is likely to inoculate Trump from the political fallout of his insults to our military. Truly this is, as the kids would say, the “LOL nothing matters” presidency. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/09/05/trumps-insults-troops-are-just-latest-episode-nothing-matters-presidency/?hpid=hp_save-opinions-float-right-4-0_opinion-card-c-right%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey 16,671 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 11 hours ago, homersapien said: The Atlantic report clearly stung. Stung the Atlantic. There are now no fewer than 11 people who were there and say they didn't hear any such thing. Besides which, any evaluation of President Trump's attitude towards the military both over these years he's been in office and before that reveal this report to be hogwash. Dems are getting desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jj3jordan 2,058 Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 20 hours ago, homersapien said: .......The Atlantic report clearly stung. Witness Trump’s frenzied denials; he even called in the first lady to defend him. But a president who has lied or deceived more than 20,000 times has no credibility — and his defense quickly fell apart. Trump denied having called the late Sen. John McCain a “loser,” yet he did so in 2015. The Atlantic report was confirmed in short order by the Associated Press, The Post and — the cruelest blow — even by Fox News. Confirmation from a Fox reporter did not, of course, prevent Fox hosts from calling the report a “hoax,” but if history is any indication, it won’t be long before they pivot from “he didn’t do it” to “yeah, he did it, so what?” Indeed, a “senior administration official” already tried out that defense with the Daily Beast: “The president means no disrespect to our troops; it’s just that the way he speaks, he can sound like an a------ sometimes.” Why do Trump supporters even go through the motions of trying to discredit the latest allegations? Their support hasn’t been shaken by all of the other things the president has done. He has welcomed Russian election help; called white supremacists “very fine people”; put children in cages; gotten impeached for trying to blackmail an ally into helping him politically; kowtowed to Vladimir Putin and avowed his love for Kim Jong Un; unleashed security forces on peaceful protesters; fomented violence; espoused insane conspiracy theories; refused to say that he would accept the election results; and, most recently, urged his fans to vote twice in violation of the law. He has erased every red line, and none of it seems to matter to his base. He entered office with 45.5 percent approval in the FiveThirtyEight poll of polls. Today he stands at 43.5 percent. Nearly four years of craziness — and his numbers have barely budged. Most remarkably of all, even Trump’s catastrophic mishandling of the covid-19 pandemic and of the economy haven’t dented his popularity. If you had asked me at the beginning of the year what one thing could cause Trump’s support to crater, I would have said a recession. Well, we’ve had the worst recession since the 1930s, combined with the worst pandemic since 1918. Nearly 200,000 Americans have already died — and a widely respected polling model predicts 400,000 deaths by January. Trump’s response has been a combination of inertia, denial and fantasy. He said, “I don’t take responsibility at all,” and he mused about injecting bleach. One study found that at least 70 percent of the U.S. deaths could have been averted if our response had been comparable to that of other wealthy countries. In other words, some 134,000 Americans might still be alive today if Trump were a competent president. And yet his poll numbers remain remarkably steady. His malign incompetence has certainly cost him some support: He is the one president in the history of polling to never crack 50 percent approval, and he has not gotten the kind of polling bump that other leaders have seen during the pandemic. But neither has his support cratered as, by rights, it should have. Richard M. Nixon, who was far more competent and ethical than Trump, saw his approval fall to 24 percent. Trump remains within striking distance of reelection. How can this be? The only explanation I can see is that his supporters place party loyalty above all else. Trump is the leader of red America, and red America will stick with him no matter what, because, despite all evidence to the contrary, it is convinced that Joe Biden will somehow be worse. There is nothing, literally nothing, that Trump could do to shake the support of the Fifth Avenue Republicans. This is the Founding Fathers’ nightmare. Alexander Hamilton called “Party-Spirit” the “most fatal disease” in “governments of the popular kind.” That disease is ravaging America: Were it not for Party-Spirit, Trump could have been impeached and removed before he had a chance to mismanage the coronavirus. And now Party-Spirit is likely to inoculate Trump from the political fallout of his insults to our military. Truly this is, as the kids would say, the “LOL nothing matters” presidency. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/09/05/trumps-insults-troops-are-just-latest-episode-nothing-matters-presidency/?hpid=hp_save-opinions-float-right-4-0_opinion-card-c-right%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans Has it ever occurred to you, even a tiny bit on a very low level, that perhaps you could actually be wrong? I know this has to be hard for you but your analysis above seems to indicate consistent lack of understanding as to why your predictions are not coming fruition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,415 Posted September 7, 2020 Author Share Posted September 7, 2020 11 hours ago, Mikey said: Stung the Atlantic. There are now no fewer than 11 people who were there and say they didn't hear any such thing. Besides which, any evaluation of President Trump's attitude towards the military both over these years he's been in office and before that reveal this report to be hogwash. Dems are getting desperate. Did it occur to you there would be literally thousands - if not millions - of people who could honestly claim "they didn't hear any such thing"? Trump, under fire for alleged comments about veterans, has a long history of disparaging military service By Michael Kranish September 6, 2020 As Donald Trump laid the groundwork in 1999 to run for president as the Reform Party candidate, he made a little-remembered attack on the person he saw as a rival in a possible general election campaign: Republican John McCain. Many considered McCain a war hero for surviving five years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam, and a television interviewer asked why Trump felt he was more qualified to be commander in chief. “Does being captured make you a hero? I don’t know. I’m not sure,” Trump said in the CBS interview. A few years earlier, Trump had bragged on a morning radio show about avoiding the Vietnam draft, remarking that one of the show’s hosts who had gotten out of service by declaring he had a bad knee had done a “good job.” Long before Trump’s views of the military would emerge as a flash point in his 2020 reelection campaign — before he would shock the political world with the more widely seen 2015 attack on McCain, in which he said the senator was “not a war hero” and declared, “I like people who weren’t captured” — Trump had a long track record of incendiary and disparaging remarks about veterans and military service. Many of his remarks are memorialized in television interviews and the tapes of radio conversations with shock jocks, dating to his years as a private citizen and businessman. Trump, who avoided military service by citing a bone spur in his foot, has disparaged veterans who were wounded or captured or went missing in action and even compared his fear of sexually transmitted diseases to the experience of a soldier, saying in 1993, “if you’re young, and in this era, and if you have any guilt about not having gone to Vietnam, we have our own Vietnam. It’s called the dating game.” It is a history filled with contradictions, of a man who denigrates his handpicked generals while saying no one supports the military more than he does, and of a commander in chief who questions the bravery of some soldiers even as he reversed disciplinary action against a Navy SEAL over the objections of Pentagon officials. He was raised in a family that criticized the value of military service, according to niece Mary L. Trump, but nonetheless he was sent to a military academy for most of his teenage years. And now, Trump and his aides are fiercely denying a report in the Atlantic in which the president is quoted denigrating U.S. soldiers, including calling those killed in combat “losers.” Trump has on rare occasions admitted that he struggles with how to address military issues because of his efforts to get out of service. He told The Washington Post in 2015 that he “always felt somewhat guilty” about not serving in the military. “I had a lot of deferments,” Trump said. “I had a foot deferment for a short time. And then I got a lucky number. I got 356 [out of 365]. You don’t get a luckier number than that.” In what he called an effort to make up for his guilt, Trump said he “spent a fortune” to build a Vietnam memorial in New York City and sponsor a Memorial Day parade. The Post has reported that Trump gave $1 million in 1985 to help build the memorial and at least $200,000 for the 1995 parade. At the time of the memorial dedication in 1985, Trump struck a tone more in line with the traditions of honoring the service of those who fought for their country. “I was a very strong opponent of the Vietnam War,” Trump said when the memorial was dedicated, “but I also recognized that the people who went to fight were great Americans.” Trump also highlighted the plight of those missing in action, reading a telegram from then-President Ronald Reagan that said the federal government wanted “the fullest possible accounting of your missing comrades in arms.” Such comments stand in stark contrast to Trump’s later criticisms of POWs, as well as private comments, reported by The Post last week, that he didn’t understand why the U.S. government spent so much effort to find missing soldiers who he believed had performed poorly and were caught. Trump told senior advisers that those who served in Vietnam were “losers” because they didn’t find a way to avoid service, a person familiar with the matter told The Post. Military historians said there is no precedent for a commander in chief to have made such attacks on the military he oversees. “He may imagine, however bizarre, that this is a way to energize his so-called base” that agreed with his disdain for “endless wars,” said Andrew Bacevich, a Vietnam veteran and author of “The Age of Illusions: How America Squandered Its Cold War Victory.” “I believe that is one explanation for why he won in 2016 — it came from his willingness to basically denounce post-9/11 military policy as foolhardy, and very few members of the political mainstream were willing to say that,” said Bacevich, who said he will not vote for Trump and may support a third-party candidate. “Since his presidency, he hasn’t ended endless wars, but I just wonder if in some way, if we are looking for a reason, this is some other expression of his opposition to foolish wars.” The White House issued the following statement in response to questions for this story: “President Trump has nothing but the utmost, solemn respect for our nation’s military. He lauds their heroism and has consistently been the strongest advocate for our veterans and active servicemen and women.” The roots of Trump’s view of the military were formed at an early age, according to friends and family. Growing up in a mansion in Jamaica Estates in Queens, Trump heard the family criticize those who joined the military instead of going into business. Trump and his father, Fred Trump Sr., were especially harsh in criticizing the decision by Donald’s older brother, Fred Jr., to join the U.S. Air National Guard, according to Fred Jr.’s daughter, Mary L. Trump. “My father was frequently ridiculed for his career choices and disparaged for serving our country by both his father and by his brother Donald,” said Mary L. Trump, author of a critical book about the president. She said that given the family history regarding the military, it is “beyond comprehension” that her uncle is commander in chief. Notwithstanding the family criticism of the military, Donald was such an unruly boy that his father decided he needed to impose discipline on the 13-year-old by sending him to the New York Military Academy for five years. Trump’s long periods of separation from his family at such an early age, as he was thrust into a militaristic regimen for which he had little aptitude, may have embittered him and created resentment toward some military figures, according to schoolmate John Bolog, who lived a few blocks from Trump in their Jamaica Estates neighborhood and often shared a ride with him when one of their mothers drove them to the academy. 50 years later, disagreements over young Trump’s military academy record Bolog noted a previously reported episode in which Trump headed the A Company but was quickly transferred to a different position because of a dispute over his leadership capabilities. It was one of several experiences that may have weighed heavily on Trump and shaped his view of the military, Bolog said. “You have to know that those formative years are what formed his opinion of the military,” Bolog said. “You come from your beautiful home in Jamaica Estates and suddenly you get dropped off at this military school, it was darkness, it was horrible. So spending five years there and then having a cold, rich man as your father, I can’t imagine it. It’s got to harden your bark.” Other classmates have said the experience was a positive one, and Trump told The Post in 2016 that he left his position at A Company because of a promotion. “I had total control over the cadets,” he said. “I did very well under the military system,” Trump said, while declining to release his transcripts. Trump wrote in his 1987 book, “The Art of the Deal,” that if he stepped out of line at the academy, one of his instructors “smacked [him] hard.” He said initially he wasn’t happy about being sent to the school but that he “learned a lot about discipline, and about channeling my aggression into achievement.” He wrote that “I can’t say I ever worked very hard” at the school and “was never all that interested in schoolwork.” By the time Trump graduated in 1964, some of his peers were volunteering for service in Vietnam, but Trump used a series of deferments to attend college. Upon graduation from the University of Pennsylvania in 1968, Trump faced the prospect of being subject to the draft lottery, which began in 1969. Trump then received a medical deferment for what his campaign called “bone spurs on both heels of his feet.” The daughters of the podiatrist who determined that Trump had bone spurs told the New York Times that the diagnosis was made as a favor to Trump’s father, Fred Sr., who was the doctor’s landlord. Shortly after that, Trump entered the draft lottery, in which he received a high number that ensured he wouldn’t be called to serve. "I got very lucky" Years later, Trump repeatedly congratulated himself and others for avoiding military service. Appearing on the Howard Stern radio show in 1995, he said that “during the Vietnam War, I got very lucky. I had a very high lottery number.” Stern responded that a member of his staff, whom he referred to as Jackie the Joke Man, “convinced the doctor that he had a bad knee. I love that.” “Well, that was a good job, Jackie,” Trump said. Trump’s aversion to service reportedly filtered into his own family. In her book, Mary L. Trump wrote that when Trump’s son, Don Jr., said he might join the military, Trump and his then-wife Ivana, “told him if he did, they’d disown him in a second.” By the time Trump decided to seek the Reform Party presidential nomination in 1999, he veered far from the comments he had made 14 years earlier at the dedication of the Vietnam War memorial he helped finance. At the time, thousands of people flocked to events at which McCain autographed copies of his memoir of the Vietnam War, a prelude to his first presidential bid. In McCain’s book, “Faith of My Fathers,” he cast his decision to serve as putting self-sacrifice for his country ahead of personal ambition. Trump countered by appearing on the CBS show “60 Minutes II” to promote his campaign book, “The America We Deserve,” and tout his presidential ambitions. He was asked to comment on his potential rivals. It was then that, as interviewer Dan Rather said that McCain “flew combat missions with distinction,” Trump questioned whether the shoot-down of McCain’s plane and subsequent capture made him a hero. Mark Salter, who co-wrote McCain’s memoir, said he had no recollection of Trump making the comment at the time and never heard McCain mention it. “In 1999, McCain‘s message was sacrifice for a cause greater than one’s self,” said Salter, co-founder of a group of former McCain staffers supporting Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden. “For Donald Trump, there isn’t a cause greater than self interest . . . sometimes he doesn’t know he is hurting his self interest.” Trump withdrew from the campaign in February 2000. As Trump prepared for his 2016 bid, he told his then-attorney, Michael Cohen, to prepare for questions about his lack of military service, Cohen later told the House Oversight Committee. Cohen said he asked Trump to provide his medical records that would document the bone spur that enabled him to avoid being drafted. “He gave me none and said there was no surgery.” Cohen told lawmakers. Trump ended the conversation by saying, “You think I’m stupid, I wasn’t going to Vietnam,” Cohen said. As Trump watched the 2016 Democratic National Convention, he became infuriated at a speech by Khizr Khan, whose son, Army Capt. Humayun Khan, was killed in a 2004 car bombing in Iraq. After Khizr Khan said Trump had “sacrificed nothing” for his country and had smeared Muslims, Trump seemed to compare the death of a soldier to his financial achievements. “I’ve made a lot of sacrifices,” Trump said. “I work very, very hard. I’ve created thousands and thousands of jobs, tens of thousands of jobs, built great structures. I’ve had tremendous success.” Trump was ridiculed across the political spectrum for picking a fight with the parents of a fallen soldier, but he won the election, touting his pledge to “rebuild the military.” He said he knew more about the Islamic State “than the generals do, believe me.” As president, defense spending rose each of the first three years he was in office, with more than $2 trillion in overall spending and $738 billion approved for 2020. The Pentagon greeted the money warmly after facing cuts during the Obama administration that included a reduction in the overall size of the military, smaller pay raises of 1 percent and a shortage in spare parts. Trump’s criticism of “endless wars” has resonated with voters, including a majority of veterans, who believe that the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan were not worth it, according to the nonpartisan Pew Research Center. But Trump’s relationship with the military sometimes has fractured over his abrupt decisions. For example, while Trump has reduced the number of U.S. troops under his watch in Afghanistan to about 4,000 as part of negotiations with the Taliban to end the war there, violence has remained high, and there is no clarity on whether a full peace deal will be reached. Trump’s withdrawal of U.S. troops from northern Syria last year triggered a period in which Russian forces took over American bases, and some veterans decried what they saw as an abandonment of Kurdish forces who have partnered with the United States against the Islamic State. Trump has had a series of fights with the generals he put in power, some of whom left in anger and dismay. In a 2017 meeting at the Pentagon, he called his top generals “losers” and “a bunch of dopes and babies,” according to “A Very Stable Genius,” by Post reporters Philip Rucker and Carol D. Leonnig. Among those who have departed include his chief of staff, retired general John F. Kelly, and his defense secretary, Jim Mattis, a McCain favorite. Mattis said earlier this year that “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people — does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us.” In response, Trump, who had once lavished praise on Mattis, tweeted: “I didn’t like his ‘leadership’ style or much else about him. . . . Glad he is gone!” https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-under-fire-for-alleged-comments-about-veterans-has-a-long-history-of-disparaging-military-service/2020/09/06/76aba4b8-f053-11ea-9279-45d6bdfe145f_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_trumpmilitary-901pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey 16,671 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 12 hours ago, homersapien said: Michael Kranish Another Trump hater writing for a source that hates Trump. Why do you waste your time copying these meaningless articles? Can't you find something from an old Mad Magazine? That would create more interest than the garbage you post here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,415 Posted September 8, 2020 Author Share Posted September 8, 2020 12 hours ago, Mikey said: Another Trump hater writing for a source that hates Trump. Why do you waste your time copying these meaningless articles? Can't you find something from an old Mad Magazine? That would create more interest than the garbage you post here. Disparage the messenger, ignore the content. It's exactly what a useful idiot would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creed 1,642 Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Can anything change Americans’ minds about Donald Trump? Not my mind. I think he's a turd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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