Wray says Russia engaged in 'very active efforts' to interfere in election, damage Biden

[homersapien 11,416]

3 hours ago, Grumps said:

What if the people here knew that the U.S. tries to influence foreign elections as well?

If such influence was designed to further democracy, I don't think there would be a problem with it.

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

Do you not understand the difference between a personal attack vs an attack against one's actions?  I've never attacked Homer personally.

And yet you exhibit the same habits that you find so distasteful when he exhibits them. I'll forgive myself the confusion.

[homersapien 11,416]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

A Or do you really think Homer et. al would post 27 articles a day attacking his preferred candidate

Please don't "exaggerate" (as SC would  put it).  

Thanks. 

[bigbird 60,578]

12 hours ago, homersapien said:

Please don't "exaggerate" (as SC would  put it).  

Thanks. 

you've never employed hyperbole in your post?

[homersapien 11,416]

33 minutes ago, bigbird said:

you've never employed hyperbole in your post?

Possibly, but not in a quantitative way (using numbers) that I can remember. 

[homersapien 11,416]

Trump suggests he’d consider removing FBI director over unfavorable testimony

 

Colby Itkowitz and 

Devlin Barrett

September 18, 2020

 

President Trump didn’t dispute Friday that he could consider removing Christopher A. Wray as FBI director after Wray gave congressional testimony Trump didn’t like on Russian interference in the 2020 election and the threat of antifa to Americans.

Wray told the House Homeland Security Committee on Thursday that Russia is still working to interfere in the U.S. presidential election, trying to “denigrate” Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden. Questioned about antifa protesters, Wray said that they were not a structured group, but an ideology or movement that attracts followers, and that some of those adherents are under investigation for possible crimes.

Trump was asked outside the White House before departing for a campaign event whether he would consider removing Wray over his testimony.

“We’re looking at a lot of different things and I did not like his answers yesterday and I’m not sure he liked them either. I’m sure he probably would agree with me. Antifa is bad, really bad,” Trump said. Trump has used the fringe anarchist believers to paint a dark image of America under Biden.

“And if you look at it, who is the real problem? The big problem is China. And we can have others also and I’m not excluding anybody. But the big problem is China, and why he doesn’t want to say that, that certainly bothers me,” Trump added, referring to reports that China was working to boost Biden in the election.

An FBI spokesman did not immediately reply to a request for comment.

Trump had made his annoyance with the FBI director’s testimony known, tweeting after that the FBI was letting antifa “get away with murder.”

The president has also complained privately about Wray for months, but advisers have urged him not to make any moves or personnel decisions before the election, according to people familiar with the discussions.

This was the second time this week that Trump pushed back against sworn testimony from one of the top officials in his administration on issues that are central to the election and his own political interests. Trump publicly rebuked Robert Redfield, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, for telling a congressional committee that it was unlikely that a coronavirus vaccine would be available to the general public until at least the middle of next year.

The president has frequently criticized Wray’s FBI for not pursuing criminal cases against former officials such as ex-director James B. Comey or former deputy director Andrew McCabe, who investigated the president’s 2016 campaign.

Trump fired Comey as head of the FBI early in his presidency in an attempt to quell investigations into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-wray-fbi-testimony/2020/09/18/2c7d16a2-f9f3-11ea-89e3-4b9efa36dc64_story.html

 

Just what the country needs - firing the director of the FBI for simply testifying to the truth.

[aubiefifty 16,858]

On 9/18/2020 at 6:46 AM, DKW 86 said:

Here we go again. 

Yes, there is some very small, negligible Russian Presence, just as there is an Israeli, Chinese, Cuban, Korean, etc etc etc Presence as well. 
Will it change the outcome? No, It never has. But there are some on here that unless they get 100% of there wish list on election day will not buy into every lame disproven conspiracy theory that comes down the pike. 

i got a serious question for ya dk. why do people hate pelosi? is she really a drunk that can barely talk? is she evil? she catches as much hate as trump does and i believe her to be a saint compared to trump. maybe it is the impeachment thing. but the right wing attack machine has gotten so bold with her lately some "MAGA" who claims he is not just loaded a video of himself pooping on her driveway. they know trump is incompetent and they would like the used to be leader of the free world to stay in office so i believe not only are they attacking biden but that they are having some success.

[Grumps 3,704]

14 hours ago, homersapien said:

If such influence was designed to further democracy, I don't think there would be a problem with it.

And would the non-democratic country we are trying to influence be ok with that? 

The point I am trying to make is that Russia is going to try to influence our election in ways that benefit them just like the U.S. is going to try to influence the elections of others in ways that benefit us. I am far more concerned about my actions and the actions of my country than I am in the actions of Russia or any other country that I have no influence on or stake in. If anyone in the U.S. is illegally helping Russia have an influence then prosecute them, but going bonkers because Russia is trying to advance their own cause seems pointless to me.

[homersapien 11,416]

18 minutes ago, Grumps said:

And would the non-democratic country we are trying to influence be ok with that? 

The point I am trying to make is that Russia is going to try to influence our election in ways that benefit them just like the U.S. is going to try to influence the elections of others in ways that benefit us. I am far more concerned about my actions and the actions of my country than I am in the actions of Russia or any other country that I have no influence on or stake in. If anyone in the U.S. is illegally helping Russia have an influence then prosecute them, but going bonkers because Russia is trying to advance their own cause seems pointless to me.

I am not as bothered by the simple fact that Russia is trying to influence our election as I am over the fact that our sitting POTUS solicited  their help and continues to behave in ways that suggest Putin has compromising information on him.

Bottom line, I don't trust Trump to act in the best interests of our country if it conflicts with what he perceives as his personal interests.  If you're honest with yourself regarding Trump, you'd feel the same way. 

 

And lest we forget:

Paul Manafort, who was sentenced to more than seven years in prison in 2019 for a slew of charges from Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian election interference, including tax and bank fraud, and conspiracy against the United States. 

The Mueller probe resulted in 100 charges against 34 people, six of whom were Trump associates, while the other 25 were Russians accused of interference. 

Rick Gates, a Trump campaign deputy, was sentenced to 45 days in jail on a plea bargain for charges of conspiracy against the U.S. and making false statements;

Michael Flynn, Trump’s first national security advisor, pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI, though his case is currently in limbo as the Department of Justice is attempting to withdraw his charge; 

George Papadopoulos, Trump’s former foreign policy advisor, was sentenced to 14 days in prison with a year of supervised release, for lying to FBI agents about his contacts with Russian intermediaries during the 2016 campaign. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/08/20/bannon-joins-long-list-of-trump-associates-who-have-been-charged-or-imprisoned/#475064395ea4

 

 

[savorytiger 182]

49 minutes ago, Grumps said:

And would the non-democratic country we are trying to influence be ok with that? 

The point I am trying to make is that Russia is going to try to influence our election in ways that benefit them just like the U.S. is going to try to influence the elections of others in ways that benefit us. I am far more concerned about my actions and the actions of my country than I am in the actions of Russia or any other country that I have no influence on or stake in. If anyone in the U.S. is illegally helping Russia have an influence then prosecute them, but going bonkers because Russia is trying to advance their own cause seems pointless to me.

Hard disagree with the second part. Morally, we shouldn't be interfering with the elections of foreign countries. As a democratic republic, though, we have to take action against those who try to interfere with our elections. The election is what defines us and the direction that we go, and allowing a foreign entity to have a say in that process contaminates it. We may disagree on the policies, but our motivations come from what we believe is the best for our country. Russia (and China, and Iran) do not have such notions.

[Grumps 3,704]

8 minutes ago, savorytiger said:

Hard disagree with the second part. Morally, we shouldn't be interfering with the elections of foreign countries. As a democratic republic, though, we have to take action against those who try to interfere with our elections. The election is what defines us and the direction that we go, and allowing a foreign entity to have a say in that process contaminates it. We may disagree on the policies, but our motivations come from what we believe is the best for our country. Russia (and China, and Iran) do not have such notions.

I think I just communicated poorly again because I agree with your comments completely. I don't think it is ok for Russia to interfere in our elections or for the U.S. to interfere in the elections of others. I agree that we should try to stop Russia from influencing our elections as much as possible. But I have zero say in what Russia does and I do have at least a little say in what the U.S. does. If I say it is okay for the U.S. to try to influence an election in Israel (for example) but not ok for Russia to try to influence our election, then I am a hypocrite.

Either way, it is not Trump's fault if Russia tries to influence our elections and it is not Putin's fault if the U.S. tries to influence theirs.

[homersapien 11,416]

27 minutes ago, Grumps said:

I think I just communicated poorly again because I agree with your comments completely. I don't think it is ok for Russia to interfere in our elections or for the U.S. to interfere in the elections of others. I agree that we should try to stop Russia from influencing our elections as much as possible. But I have zero say in what Russia does and I do have at least a little say in what the U.S. does. If I say it is okay for the U.S. to try to influence an election in Israel (for example) but not ok for Russia to try to influence our election, then I am a hypocrite.

Either way, it is not Trump's fault if Russia tries to influence our elections and it is not Putin's fault if the U.S. tries to influence theirs.

I think a better example would be influencing an election in Belarus openly by defending democracy in general. 

If you are talking strictly about covert influence, I can agree with your moral standpoint, but IMO there's no problem with overt influence by anyone on anyone else, which is not what we have with the Russians and our election.

 

[jj3jordan 2,058]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

I am not as bothered by the simple fact that Russia is trying to influence our election as I am over the fact that our sitting POTUS solicited  their help and continues to behave in ways that suggest Putin has compromising information on him.

Bottom line, I don't trust Trump to act in the best interests of our country if it conflicts with what he perceives as his personal interests.  If you're honest with yourself regarding Trump, you'd feel the same way. 

 

And lest we forget:

Paul Manafort, who was sentenced to more than seven years in prison in 2019 for a slew of charges from Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian election interference, including tax and bank fraud, and conspiracy against the United States. 

The Mueller probe resulted in 100 charges against 34 people, six of whom were Trump associates, while the other 25 were Russians accused of interference. 

Rick Gates, a Trump campaign deputy, was sentenced to 45 days in jail on a plea bargain for charges of conspiracy against the U.S. and making false statements;

Michael Flynn, Trump’s first national security advisor, pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI, though his case is currently in limbo as the Department of Justice is attempting to withdraw his charge; 

George Papadopoulos, Trump’s former foreign policy advisor, was sentenced to 14 days in prison with a year of supervised release, for lying to FBI agents about his contacts with Russian intermediaries during the 2016 campaign. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/08/20/bannon-joins-long-list-of-trump-associates-who-have-been-charged-or-imprisoned/#475064395ea4

 

 

Real big fish there Homer.  Most if not all charges unrelated to the fake Russia interference.  Spending $100K on Facebook adds is not interference. If you are dumb enough to let Facebook sway your vote then you are too stupid to have a sufficient grasp of the issues to vote. Do yourself and others a favor and stay home.

[Leftfield 2,628]

2 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

If you are dumb enough to let Facebook sway your vote then you are too stupid to have a sufficient grasp of the issues to vote.

And yet some people are swayed. Advertising works. If it didn't nobody would advertise.

[homersapien 11,416]

4 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Real big fish there Homer.  Most if not all charges unrelated to the fake Russia interference.  Spending $100K on Facebook adds is not interference. If you are dumb enough to let Facebook sway your vote then you are too stupid to have a sufficient grasp of the issues to vote. Do yourself and others a favor and stay home.

While I understand the technical difference - and it's theoretically significant - I don't make a strong distinction between "interference" and "influence" when we're talking about a presidential campaign colluding with a foreign government for political help, particularly a hostile foreign government like Russia. 

The Trump campaign clearly colluded with the Russians for any help they might provide and some of them got caught. 

But thanks for the reminder to keep ignoring you.   (I like to occasionally check on people to see if they have changed.  You haven't.)

[IronMan70 3,277]

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2020 at 7:21 PM, johnnyAU said:

Or how Biden is China's preferred candidate?

 

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2020 at 7:30 PM, McLoofus said:

Are you certain of that? Btw this really isn't helping your image as a Biden-obsessed creeper with no actual viewpoint.

****

As opposed to a Trump-obsessed creeper. 

[DKW 86 7,437]

On 9/18/2020 at 5:47 PM, Grumps said:

What if the people here knew that the U.S. tries to influence foreign elections as well?

If you dont know that, you are an idiot of the highest order. Every country on earth is engaged in this at some level. See any political history book ever written.

On 9/18/2020 at 6:01 PM, bigbird said:

They wouldn't care or say anything about it

Thats the point. We do it all the time, no one cares. We only care when other countries do it to our candidates, NO MATTER HOW INCONSEQUENTIAL THAT HELP MAY BE.  

On 9/18/2020 at 6:21 PM, johnnyAU said:

Or how Biden is China's preferred candidate?

Dont think there is any chance Biden is not China's preferred candidate. See Biden's support of numerous trade agreements benefitting China and how his family members always seem to benefit from those agreements one way or another. 

On 9/18/2020 at 6:25 PM, bigbird said:

Because neither side acknowledges much of their own hypocrisy. If HRC had won, and the "Russians helped", then the left wouldn't be saying s*** about it. In Fact, they'd be arguing that the right was just sour over the loss. Just like the right has done for four years. 

As far as how it relates to your thought of Trump being Putin's preferred candidate, its not relevant. It's relevant to the post I quoted.

The total effect of the Russian Interference is insignificant at this point. It didnt matter in any way in any outcome. We have rehashed this for four years and it has achieved just about nothing.  

On 9/18/2020 at 6:25 PM, AUDub said:

They like to deflect like that.

Have we ****** around clandestinely with other countries? Oh yeah, no doubt about that. s***, look at the Shah in Iran or the various banana republics in central America. The excuse was often "stopping the insidious spread of socialism/communism" or some other thing.

But they're equivocating in this day and age.

We interfered in elections and in other countries outright and it has many times kicked us in the teeth. Carter and the Shah is example #1. Battista, etc. 

On 9/18/2020 at 6:43 PM, McLoofus said:

Yeah, I know we have plenty of blood on our hands. It would be surprising that anyone bothering to post in this forum thought that was news to anyone else, were it not Grumps. Hardly surprised he would bring it up as though it were some startling revelation or that it is in any way germane to our own, current election.

We do it. All nations do it. So what? You couldnt stop it even if you had the Gestapo and the Wehrmacht at your disposal. Nothing could not stop it. 

On 9/18/2020 at 9:46 PM, homersapien said:

If such influence was designed to further democracy, I don't think there would be a problem with it.

Our attempts at Democracy have blown up in our face as many times as it has been modestly successful. Trying to to do good and getting damaged is just par for the course. 

On 9/19/2020 at 11:44 AM, aubiefifty said:

i got a serious question for ya dk. why do people hate pelosi? is she really a drunk that can barely talk? is she evil? she catches as much hate as trump does and i believe her to be a saint compared to trump. maybe it is the impeachment thing. but the right wing attack machine has gotten so bold with her lately some "MAGA" who claims he is not just loaded a video of himself pooping on her driveway. they know trump is incompetent and they would like the used to be leader of the free world to stay in office so i believe not only are they attacking biden but that they are having some success.

I dont know about success, but Pelosi, she is the chief fundraiser for the Democrats. After PPACA, she lost a 1000 seats across the US. Many are furious with her letting that happen. Many see her sold out to Wall Street and the Techies. She is really the poster girl for Neo-Liberalism. Forgot about the Middle-Class as she fundraises and sells out even more for Wall Street. 

On 9/19/2020 at 12:09 PM, Grumps said:

And would the non-democratic country we are trying to influence be ok with that? 

The point I am trying to make is that Russia is going to try to influence our election in ways that benefit them just like the U.S. is going to try to influence the elections of others in ways that benefit us. I am far more concerned about my actions and the actions of my country than I am in the actions of Russia or any other country that I have no influence on or stake in. If anyone in the U.S. is illegally helping Russia have an influence then prosecute them, but going bonkers because Russia is trying to advance their own cause seems pointless to me.

Those arguing with you seem to think that if the US does this, then it is alright. But if anyone else does this, well that is just awful. Chickens-Roost-etc...

On 9/19/2020 at 12:42 PM, homersapien said:

I am not as bothered by the simple fact that Russia is trying to influence our election as I am over the fact that our sitting POTUS solicited  their help and continues to behave in ways that suggest Putin has compromising information on him.

Bottom line, I don't trust Trump to act in the best interests of our country if it conflicts with what he perceives as his personal interests.  If you're honest with yourself regarding Trump, you'd feel the same way. 

And lest we forget:

Paul Manafort, who was sentenced to more than seven years in prison in 2019 for a slew of charges from Robert Mueller’s investigation into Russian election interference, including tax and bank fraud, and conspiracy against the United States. 

The Mueller probe resulted in 100 charges against 34 people, six of whom were Trump associates, while the other 25 were Russians accused of interference. 

Rick Gates, a Trump campaign deputy, was sentenced to 45 days in jail on a plea bargain for charges of conspiracy against the U.S. and making false statements;

Michael Flynn, Trump’s first national security advisor, pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI, though his case is currently in limbo as the Department of Justice is attempting to withdraw his charge; 

George Papadopoulos, Trump’s former foreign policy advisor, was sentenced to 14 days in prison with a year of supervised release, for lying to FBI agents about his contacts with Russian intermediaries during the 2016 campaign. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/08/20/bannon-joins-long-list-of-trump-associates-who-have-been-charged-or-imprisoned/#475064395ea4

In four years of howler monkey screaming, we have had just slightly more than nothing found out. Years of investigations and Trump is still in the WH despite some of the horribly misinformed on this forum guaranteeing that he would be impeached and removed for the better part of two-three years now. 

Some of us here can post up 27 articles of drivel everyday. That doesnt make their point that they are right, it just makes the point that there are many just as crazy people out there in the world as they are. You know, psychiatrists that give driveby psychiatric opinions based on the National Enquirer Article they just read because they have never seen the person they are sliming and smearing professionally nor socially. Or the Body Language Experts that look at 2-3 awkwardly taken pictures and diagnose someone based on that. Trump is bad, we get it. I got it 33 years ago. But quit posting absolute crap opinion pieces aimed at the perpetually lobotomized masses and pretending that they mean anything other than a two bit slam at someone. 

 

[IronMan70 3,277]

9 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

If you dont know that, you are an idiot of the highest order. Every country on earth is engaged in this at some level. See any political history book ever written.

Thats the point. We do it all the time, no one cares. We only care when other countries do it to our candidates, NO MATTER HOW INCONSEQUENTIAL THAT HELP MAY BE.  

Dont think there is any chance Biden is not China's preferred candidate. See Biden's support of numerous trade agreements benefitting China and how his family members always seem to benefit from those agreements one way or another. 

The total effect of the Russian Interference is insignificant at this point. It didnt matter in any way in any outcome. We have rehashed this for four years and it has achieved just about nothing.  

We interfered in elections and in other countries outright and it has many times kicked us in the teeth. Carter and the Shah is example #1. Battista, etc. 

We do it. All nations do it. So what? You couldnt stop it even if you had the Gestapo and the Wehrmacht at your disposal. Nothing could not stop it. 

Our attempts at Democracy have blown up in our face as many times as it has been modestly successful. Trying to to do good and getting damaged is just par for the course. 

I dont know about success, but Pelosi, she is the chief fundraiser for the Democrats. After PPACA, she lost a 1000 seats across the US. Many are furious with her letting that happen. Many see her sold out to Wall Street and the Techies. She is really the poster girl for Neo-Liberalism. Forgot about the Middle-Class as she fundraises and sells out even more for Wall Street. 

Those arguing with you seem to think that if the US does this, then it is alright. But if anyone else does this, well that is just awful. Chickens-Roost-etc...

In four years of howler monkey screaming, we have had just slightly more than nothing found out. Years of investigations and Trump is still in the WH despite some of the horribly misinformed on this forum guaranteeing that he would be impeached and removed for the better part of two-three years now. 

Some of us here can post up 27 articles of drivel everyday. That doesnt make their point that they are right, it just makes the point that there are many just as crazy people out there in the world as they are. You know, psychiatrists that give driveby psychiatric opinions based on the National Enquirer Article they just read because they have never seen the person they are sliming and smearing professionally nor socially. Or the body language Experts that look at 2-3 awkwardly taken pictures and diagnose someone based on that. Trump is bad, we get it. I got it 33 years ago. But quit posting absolute crap opinion pieces aimed at the perpetually lobotomized masses and pretending that they mean anything other than a two bit slam at someone. 

 

Damn DKW that's a pretty good post right there.