Only one officer charged in Breonna Taylor's killing

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uh oh

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The only silver lining to me was that I expected a total no bill.

But this is going to kick the hornets' nest. 

[TitanTiger 20,508]

Good Lord, and he wasn't even charged for breaking into the wrong apartment and shooting Taylor.  He was charged for recklessly firing his weapon such that a bullet went through the wall into another person's apartment.

[homersapien 11,416]

While I think what happened is absolutely deplorable, to me, the real issue is more about the policy of no-knock entering instead of individual culpability on the part of any given officer.

Such a policy might very well be an indicator of systemic racism or bias.

(This assumes that the tactics were predetermined.  If a decision was made on scene to break in without knocking, it would change my perspective.)

  

 

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6 minutes ago, homersapien said:

While I think what happened is absolutely deplorable, to me, the real issue is more about the policy of no-knock entering instead of individual culpability on the part of any given officer.

Such a policy might very well be an indicator of systemic racism or bias.

And this is why BLM is a thing. A 26 year old woman is dead for no damn reason, and nobody is going to be held accountable for it.

It's a big, dumb machine that feeds on fear and sh**s out tragedy. 

[I_M4_AU 7,915]

19 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Good Lord, and he wasn't even charged for breaking into the wrong apartment and shooting Taylor.  He was charged for recklessly firing his weapon such that a bullet went through the wall into another person's apartment.

The wrong apartment narrative was put out there by Ben Crump, the attorney representing Breonna, and is known for putting out non factual information.  He never walks it back. 

The charges seem reasonable. 

[homersapien 11,416]

3 minutes ago, AUDub said:

And this is why BLM is a thing. A 26 year old woman is dead for no damn reason, and nobody is going to be held accountable for it.

It's a big, dumb machine that feeds on fear and sh**s out tragedy. 

Well put.   Militarization of the police comes to mind.

Systemic problems are definitely real.

[AUFriction 1,179]

I figured this is what would happen.
 

The officers that entered the apartment had a no knock warrant for Breonna’s apartment (there’s an inaccurate rumor floating around the internet that the cops are at the wrong place) that they served the way they were instructed to. Upon entering the apartment, her boyfriend fired at the officers thinking they were intruders. Police policy is that you are allowed to respond with equivocal force to what is being used against you. Once he fired that shot, the police were legally justified in returning fire. 

The officer that was arrested did not follow policy. He opened fire from outside the building and had no force being used against him. This situation really sucks, but the other two officers followed police protocol. They were never getting indicted. If the DA had charged them,  a judge probably would’ve tossed the case anyway.
 

Very happy that the city banned no knock warrants after this, and wish other places would do the same. This whole scenario wouldn’t have happened and Breonna would still be alive if not for no knock warrants. 

[TitanTiger 20,508]

7 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

The wrong apartment narrative was put out there by Ben Crump, the attorney representing Breonna, and is known for putting out non factual information.  He never walks it back. 

The charges seem reasonable. 

The cop was indicted for firing his weapon recklessly and for a bullet that penetrated the wall and went into the next door apartment, almost hitting a pregnant woman.  That's what I meant by "wrong apartment."

[I_M4_AU 7,915]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

The cop was indicted for firing his weapon recklessly and for a bullet that penetrated the wall and went into the next door apartment, almost hitting a pregnant woman.  That's what I meant by "wrong apartment."

Really???  You might want to edit your OP because it’s misleading as written. 

[TitanTiger 20,508]

The no-knock warrant thing definitely needs to go.

But in this case, the warrant was asked to be no-knock but what was granted was "knock and announce."  The police officers and one witness say they announced, but differ on how they announced themselves.  Her boyfriend and 11 other witnesses say they never announced themselves.    You decide who's telling the truth.

The other aspect of why people say "the wrong apartment" though is that there wasn't very good reason to even choose Taylor's apartment.  She and the guy they were after had broken up two years prior.  They claimed they saw him leave her residence recently with a suspicious package and had the post office monitoring mail going to Taylor's apartment.  After a few months the post office told them nothing of any importance had been mailed to it.

So somebody effed up and it wasn't Taylor or Walker (her current boyfriend at the time who fired on the officers who broke in).  Whether it's the person who pushed for the warrant, an investigating officer who misrepresented (exaggerated) the facts, the officers for not clearly announcing who they were or what, it shouldn't just end with one guy in trouble for firing his weapon recklessly.

[TitanTiger 20,508]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

Really???  You might want to edit your OP because it’s misleading as written. 

Sorry, you're right.  I conflated the two things.

It was the "wrong apartment" in the sense that they really didn't have a solid reason to believe this was the place they needed to go busting down doors.  The suspect didn't live there and hadn't for over two years and the post office had told them no packages were delivered there of any importance or unusual nature.

[AUFriction 1,179]

8 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

The no-knock warrant thing definitely needs to go.

But in this case, the warrant was asked to be no-knock but what was granted was "knock and announce."  The police officers and one witness say they announced, but differ on how they announced themselves.  Her boyfriend and 11 other witnesses say they never announced themselves.    You decide who's telling the truth.

The other aspect of why people say "the wrong apartment" though is that there wasn't very good reason to even choose Taylor's apartment.  She and the guy they were after had broken up two years prior.  They claimed they saw him leave her residence recently with a suspicious package and had the post office monitoring mail going to Taylor's apartment.  After a few months the post office told them nothing of any importance had been mailed to it.

So somebody effed up and it wasn't Taylor or Walker (her current boyfriend at the time who fired on the officers who broke in).  Whether it's the person who pushed for the warrant, an investigating officer who misrepresented (exaggerated) the facts, the officers for not clearly announcing who they were or what, it shouldn't just end with one guy in trouble for firing his weapon recklessly.

They actually did announce, and, from what I’ve read, they actually didn’t even use the no knock at first. Because it was low risk, they decided to try knocking and to only use the no knock if no one answered. This was corroborated by another witness who heard them knocking from a neighboring apartment. What the other 11 people said was just that they didn’t hear anything. It’s a crappy situation, but the officers weren’t legally at fault here. I think it’s right to raise questions about why a no knock warrant was even signed for this address. I think we should be asking serious questions about the recklessness of the DA and/or judge who thought it was necessary for that apartment. It’s even fine to ask questions about what role race might have made in the decision to use a no knock warrant for a relatively safe search. But legally and fairness-wise, it makes no sense to indict the two cops here. They just did what they they were ordered and trained to do. Indicting then would just ruin the lives of more people unnecessarily, and wouldn’t really be justice.

[TitanTiger 20,508]

1 hour ago, AUFriction said:

They actually did announce, and, from what I’ve read, they actually didn’t even use the no knock at first. Because it was low risk, they decided to try knocking and to only use the no knock if no one answered. This was corroborated by another witness who heard them knocking from a neighboring apartment. What the other 11 people said was just that they didn’t hear anything.

We don't know that they announced.  No one was wearing a body cam (which is a problem right out the gate).  You have the officers and one other witness saying they announced, and the boyfriend and 11 other people saying they didn't or that they didn't hear any announcement.

 

1 hour ago, AUFriction said:

It’s a crappy situation, but the officers weren’t legally at fault here. I think it’s right to raise questions about why a no knock warrant was even signed for this address.

Well, it wasn't.  The warrant issued was a 'knock and announce.'

And those should be outlawed as well.

 

1 hour ago, AUFriction said:

I think we should be asking serious questions about the recklessness of the DA and/or judge who thought it was necessary for that apartment. It’s even fine to ask questions about what role race might have made in the decision to use a no knock warrant for a relatively safe search. But legally and fairness-wise, it makes no sense to indict the two cops here. They just did what they they were ordered and trained to do. Indicting then would just ruin the lives of more people unnecessarily, and wouldn’t really be justice.

I would want to know what, if any, involvement these three cops had in building the case for the warrant before I write them off as "just following orders."  And I agree on the DA and the judge.  I mean, you're talking about an apartment where the drug dealer they're after doesn't even live and hasn't lived for two years.  You know you're likely just going to catch Breonna and maybe the dude she's with now doing...what exactly?  Maybe possessing some package with drugs in it?  Even though the post office told you no suspicious or notable packages have come to that address since you asked them to monitor?  

What a clusterf***.

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

What a s***show. I don’t blame black people one bit for being bitter towards our country and it’s lack of fairness and justice. If the accountability for taking someone’s life wrongfully is this, if you’re a police officer, the system is broken. I feel bad for the family. They will never have peace.

[AUFriction 1,179]

2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

We don't know that they announced.  No one was wearing a body cam (which is a problem right out the gate).  You have the officers and one other witness saying they announced, and the boyfriend and 11 other people saying they didn't or that they didn't hear any announcement.

 

Well, it wasn't.  The warrant issued was a 'knock and announce.'

And those should be outlawed as well.

 

I would want to know what, if any, involvement these three cops had in building the case for the warrant before I write them off as "just following orders."  And I agree on the DA and the judge.  I mean, you're talking about an apartment where the drug dealer they're after doesn't even live and hasn't lived for two years.  You know you're likely just going to catch Breonna and maybe the dude she's with now doing...what exactly?  Maybe possessing some package with drugs in it?  Even though the post office told you no suspicious or notable packages have come to that address since you asked them to monitor?  

What a clusterf***.

I'll admit I could be wrong here, but I think I remember reading that none of those officers were really in charge of the investigation. They were just briefed hours earlier on what they were supposed to look for and sent into the field. 

 

I do agree on the no knock warrants though. That's where the problem is. I hope you didn't misunderstand my point. The police and the justice department are absolutely responsible for her death. My argument is just that, given the circumstances and the extant evidence, it seems highly unlikely that the blame should fall primarily at the feet of those two officers, especially if you want to talk about an indictment for a very serious felony charge that wouldn't just destroy their careers but their lives. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

22 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

What a s***show. I don’t blame black people one bit for being bitter towards our country and it’s lack of fairness and justice. If the accountability for taking someone’s life wrongfully is this, if you’re a police officer, the system is broken. I feel bad for the family. They will never have peace.

Here's what bothers me so much.  So many who are in the corner of the police on this one are the same folks who say "if someone enters my house, they are going to get shot".  Now you have cops entering a home unexpectedly, apparently without identifying themselves, and when they get shot at once, they return fire 30+ times.  But because they are cops, we're all supposed to be OK with that and the "someone getting shot if they come in my home" rule doesn't apply.

That's flat out BS.

* For those of you saying the cops did identify themselves, there's one person who said that.  There are over 10 neighbors who have disputed that claim.

[AUFriction 1,179]

10 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Here's what bothers me so much.  So many who are in the corner of the police on this one are the same folks who say "if someone enters my house, they are going to get shot".  Now you have cops entering a home unexpectedly, apparently without identifying themselves, and when they get shot at once, they return fire 30+ times.  But because they are cops, we're all supposed to be OK with that and the "someone getting shot if they come in my home" rule doesn't apply.

That's flat out BS.

* For those of you saying the cops did identify themselves, there's one person who said that.  There are over 10 neighbors who have disputed that claim.

The 10 neighbors situation is being misconstrued. They said that they did not here them say anything either way. Basically, there was only one witness that saw or heard anything. The others cannot confirm or deny whether the cops announced themselves. 
But, let’s say the cops didn’t announce, that’s a fireable offense, but not a manslaughter or murder charge. A gun was fired in their direction. If Kentucky law is anything like Alabama’s, they were legally justified to fire.

 

For the record, I completely support the BLM movement, and am disgusted by  what the police did to George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, and many of the other cases that have been discussed. To me, this situation just seems different from those. Those were very obvious cases of police using excessive force against someone unarmed. In this case, all the evidence suggests that the fault should be put on whomever sent them to that apartment with the no knock order, not the officers themselves.

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

16 minutes ago, AUFriction said:

The 10 neighbors situation is being misconstrued. They said that they did not here them say anything either way. Basically, there was only one witness that saw or heard anything. The others cannot confirm or deny whether the cops announced themselves. 
But, let’s say the cops didn’t announce, that’s a fireable offense, but not a manslaughter or murder charge. A gun was fired in their direction. If Kentucky law is anything like Alabama’s, they were legally justified to fire.

 

For the record, I completely support the BLM movement, and am disgusted by  what the police did to George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, and many of the other cases that have been discussed. To me, this situation just seems different from those. Those were very obvious cases of police using excessive force against someone unarmed. In this case, all the evidence suggests that the fault should be put on whomever sent them to that apartment with the no knock order, not the officers themselves.

The problem is the police are held to a lower standard. Put this situation in the shoes of civilians.
 

I work in Insurance Restoration. Say I get a call from one of my admin people and they tell me the issue I need to look at is in Apartment A and it’s actually B. They tell me I can just knock and go in because the homeowner is bed ridden. I knock and walk into apartment A and someone gets scared and they shoot at me, because I walked in their home. I shoot back and kill them, I’m going to be charged with Murder or Manslaughter. I can’t use the defense, “my administrator told me it was A”.

[AUFriction 1,179]

12 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

The problem is the police are held to a lower standard. Put this situation in the shoes of civilians.
 

I work in Insurance Restoration. Say I get a call from one of my admin people and they tell me the issue I need to look at is in Apartment A and it’s actually B. They tell me I can just knock and go in because the homeowner is bed ridden. I knock and walk into apartment A and someone gets scared and they shoot at me, because I walked in their home. I shoot back and kill them, I’m going to be charged with Murder or Manslaughter. I can’t use the defense, “my administrator told me it was A”.

The example doesn’t quite work, but I get your point. Even going to your example, I’d argue that the person entering the apartment likely would not get convicted. It would be seen as an accidental shooting. 
 

But in this case specifically, the big difference is that they had permission to enter. 

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An officer has apparently been shot. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

31 minutes ago, AUFriction said:

The example doesn’t quite work, but I get your point. Even going to your example, I’d argue that the person entering the apartment likely would not get convicted. It would be seen as an accidental shooting. 
 

But in this case specifically, the big difference is that they had permission to enter. 

But how is a homeowner supposed to know that?  I'm speaking from an experience here.  I was the victim of a break in while in bed.  My bedroom door got kicked down and I had a gun pointed at me.  I was asleep and had zero idea what was going on, but apparently the criminals had been in the apartment already making noise and rounding up roommates.  I'm just a very heavy sleeper.  If I had quick access to a gun and shot, is that my fault or the fault of the intruder?

I say this because if the cops only said "police" once, how is the onus not on them?  The homeowner or occupant has a legal right to defend against intrusion.

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31 minutes ago, AUDub said:

An officer has apparently been shot. 

Two officers. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

23 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Two officers. 

That blows but I'm not at all surprised.  People are only going to get pushed so far.  The family, civil rights leaders, and politicians we're all pleaing for peaceful protests earlier today.  Eventually though that will all fall on deaf ears when the same things keep happening over and over to the same community.  

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

10 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

That blows but I'm not at all surprised.  People are only going to get pushed so far.  The family, civil rights leaders, and politicians we're all pleaing for peaceful protests earlier today.  Eventually though that will all fall on deaf ears when the same things keep happening over and over to the same community.  

I completely agree. This government has waged war on the black community and they have every right to fight back against what they can only see as violent tyranny. Everyone should be held accountable for their actions. Even if they serve our stand or federal government.