Supreme Court plays coward. Get raped in Texas and u can be forced to have the baby.

[homersapien 11,393]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Sure I do, but in times of war the initial battles are bloody with large loss of life totals.  As the Generals understand the enemy they strategically battle to control the outcome.

 

How many wars can you name in which we have lost 656 k deaths, and still counting?

And your last sentence is right on.  That's exactly why our "generals" are pushing vaccination.

[homersapien 11,393]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

And Joe is responsible for almost half of those deaths.  Why did the death counts stop after the inauguration?

That's insane.

[homersapien 11,393]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

Like I have said before; you assume too much.

I don't have to assume.  You've made yourself perfectly clear, with your "protect the old and let er rip" statements. (As if young people don't die from this. )

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by homersapien

[AU9377 4,977]

21 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

No, I’m aware of vaccine mandates.  The *mandates* for MMR, for example, are for the young to enter school, now a parent can get a waiver for there child if they do not have the vaccine.  Polio was another *mandated* vaccine and is very affective.  I grew up in a generation that believed in what the government was saying and, for the most part, they were correct.  Now, there are conflicting opinions that are not considered by the censors of information.  Why have we not heard a lot about therapeutics in Joe’s 6 part plan to fight Covid?  That would save more lives for the people that are not vaccinated.  But, alas, they are the enemy, according to some they should die a horrible death for not succumbing to the boot heels of government. 

You say some things are necessary for public health and safety reasons do, but who gets to decide? They fact that people overwhelmingly support every public health emergency we have ever faced is overwhelmingly due to fear.  We have lived with this virus for a year and a half, you should know how to deal with it by now and each individual has the right to *vote* on how he/she handles his own life.

About half of the deaths in the US have been people over the life expectancy in America (about 78 years old).  If you are under 50, your chances of survival is like 99%.  Protect the vulnerable, get vaccinated as you feel appropriate and let people live their lives.  That has worked for years and will work as time goes on.

Uncle Billy Joe is believing the *science* that fits his narrative. Joe Biden is believing the same thing, but he is forcing the entire nation to believe what he believes.

During times of *existential* threats the powerful will convince the public they need more power.  How many *existential* threats are we living through now?

There are only multiple narratives being pushed by the anti vax folks.  The medical community is in near total agreement on the need for these vaccines and the fact that they are proven safe.  Therapeutics are being investigated, but why would any sane human prefer treatment over prevention? After all, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as the old saying goes.  We have vaccines that have gone thru extensive trials and have now been given to hundreds of millions of people worldwide with very few adverse reactions.

You are desperately trying to make this decision about politics, but you fail to consider the fact that this is not a fight in the U.S. alone.  This is a worldwide problem.  We are simply handling it worse than any other first world country due to making the issue a political one.  This is not an issue in the EU, UK, and other countries that are every bit as "free" as we are here in the good ole U.S.A.

[I_M4_AU 7,865]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

How many wars can you name in which we have lost 656 k deaths, and still counting?

And your last sentence is right on.  That's exactly why our "generals" are pushing vaccination.

The generals are limiting their resources to only one thing.  Therapeutics is the other front that needs to be pushed as well.  

[homersapien 11,393]

6 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

And Joe is responsible for almost half of those deaths.  Why did the death counts stop after the inauguration?

No, Biden isn't responsible.  Stupid and/or selfish people like you are.

[homersapien 11,393]

7 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

The generals are limiting their resources to only one thing.  Therapeutics is the other front that needs to be pushed as well.  

Vaccines avoid the need for more expensive and less available therapeutics. Every heard the saying, one ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?

And if you need therapeutics, chances are you are already taking up an ICU bed. That's a major aspect of the Delta outbreak.

(And if your problem is simply fear of needles, keep in mind that's the way therapeutics are delivered.) 

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,393]

11 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

You are desperately trying to make this decision about politics, but you fail to consider the fact that this is not a fight in the U.S. alone.  This is a worldwide problem.  We are simply handling it worse than any other first world country due to making the issue a political one.  This is not an issue in the EU, UK, and other countries that are every bit as "free" as we are here in the good ole U.S.A.

 Bingo!

Edited September 10, 2021 by homersapien

[I_M4_AU 7,865]

5 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Therapeutics are being investigated, but why would any sane human prefer treatment over prevention?

Why would a sane person smoke and/or be so overweight it would affect their health?  Those people rely on treatment to keep them going as it is easier for them then to sacrifice convenience for a better life.  I would think human nature plays a part.

 

11 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

You are desperately trying to make this decision about politics, but you fail to consider the fact that this is not a fight in the U.S. alone.  This is a worldwide problem.  We are simply handling it worse than any other first world country due to making the issue a political one. 

Can you clarify?  It appears you agree that it is a political issue.

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

41 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

.  I grew up in a generation that believed in what the government was saying and, for the most part, they were correct.  Now, there are conflicting opinions that are not considered by the censors of information.

Because now you have access to the world wide web, social media, and the differing opinions of millions of different people with varying agendas that you didn't have access to when growing up.

There were still all these conflicting and varying opinions back in your day too, you just didn't know about most of them because, ironically, the government was much better about its censorship when everyone wasn't connected to each other. 

like you said, for the most part the government and its experts were correct. 

 

Quote

 Why have we not heard a lot about therapeutics in Joe’s 6 part plan to fight Covid?  That would save more lives for the people that are not vaccinated.  But, alas, they are the enemy, according to some they should die a horrible death for not succumbing to the boot heels of government. 

Because that is for people who already are sick with covid. Biden and the governments primary focus is slowing the spread of covid through the healthy population via a vaccine so they hopefully never need medical treatment to fight it off. 

Leave the therapies, medicines and treatments of the actual sick people to the doctors and hospitals.  

Quote

You say some things are necessary for public health and safety reasons do, but who gets to decide? They fact that people overwhelmingly support every public health emergency we have ever faced is overwhelmingly due to fear.  We have lived with this virus for a year and a half, you should know how to deal with it by now and each individual has the right to *vote* on how he/she handles his own life.

The government decides because we are a representative republic where we democratically elect people to decide these things on our behalf. There is no area of life or society where a person has true personal freedom to do whatever they want. Everything has rules and laws to follow. This is how society functions. 

Quote

About half of the deaths in the US have been people over the life expectancy in America (about 78 years old).  If you are under 50, your chances of survival is like 99%.  

 even a 99% survival rate = several million dead Americans if it spreads unabated. 1-2% death rate can be a very high number of people if a large enough population gets sick 

Quote

Protect the vulnerable, get vaccinated as you feel appropriate and let people live their lives.  That has worked for years and will work as time goes on.

600,000+ dead in a little over a year says it isn't working now. 

Quote

Uncle Billy Joe is believing the *science* that fits his narrative. Joe Biden is believing the same thing, but he is forcing the entire nation to believe what he believes.

During times of *existential* threats the powerful will convince the public they need more power.  How many *existential* threats are we living through now?

It just so happens that the science that fits Biden's narrative is the consensus science of a overwhelmingly vast majority of the scientific and medical community. 

Yes, you can go on youtube and find some doctors or self described experts that will say they disagree and give you reasons why, but that's true of everything. This is why scams are so prevalent, because too many people are very easily convinced of things that aren't true if the person on the other end giving the false info seems intelligent, trustworthy, and manipulates using religion, politics, family, love, or whatever they think will influence the other person. 

 

 

[AU9377 4,977]

18 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Why would a sane person smoke and/or be so overweight it would affect their health?  Those people rely on treatment to keep them going as it is easier for them then to sacrifice convenience for a better life.  I would think human nature plays a part.

 

Can you clarify?  It appears you agree that it is a political issue.

The difference is that this is an infectious disease.  I'm sympathetic to the opinion of some that "we are going to die from something, so I eat what I want."  I have seen the harm that smoking can do as well.  My dad has moderate to severe COPD today and he stopped smoking in the early 1990s.  The difference is that I can go to a friend's house that smokes and when I leave all I take with me is the smell of cigarettes on my clothes.  Likewise, if someone I go to dinner with insists on gorging themselves on high fat foods, it doesn't transfer to me personally.  Neither of those decisions is leading to an overburdened health care system.

Compare that to Covid-19.  Covid-19 is overburdening the health care system, making ICU beds hard to come by and putting trauma care in jeopardy.  However, there is a solution that is safe and free.  Vaccination alone protects the vast majority of people from ever suffering serious sickness and hospitalization.  As of today, Georgia and Alabama are both running out of available ICU beds due to 40% or more of them being used by Covid patients.  We know for a fact that between 92% and 96% of those Covid ICU patients are unvaccinated.

I believe that this has become a political issue in the U.S.,  but that it should not be and should have never been a political talking point.  People at the NIH and CDC are not perfect, but they have made their life's work protecting people from diseases in the U.S. and across the world.  To think that any of them would work for 50 years doing that and then all of a sudden be part of some grand conspiracy to harm people just makes no sense whatsoever.

Edited September 10, 2021 by AU9377

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

16 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

You assume too much. I am for personal choice though.  

The employees are given a choice true, but when this administration is telling corporations to require vaccinations where would an employee turn for another job?

Most corporations will probably welcome the requirement. Just last month saw a conference in Colorado involving a team of engineers and government personnel blown to hell and back by a positive check of one the attendees unvaccinated  wife. Turns out the attendee positive also. All meetings canceled. Flight and accommodation expenses, salaries,…..all for naught. Not to mention lost time on project schedule. 

As far as working for or contracting with government pretty simple. Play to their safety standards or do not play.

Edited September 10, 2021 by SaltyTiger

[I_M4_AU 7,865]

1 hour ago, AU9377 said:

I believe that this has become a political issue in the U.S.,  but that it should not be and should have never been a political talking point.

This has been my point from the beginning. The country had the opportunity to come together against a common foe, but refused to do it as some saw the virus as a way to divide the country.

[Randman5000 4,229]

Then Texas should also make contraceptives more widely available and teach about safe health in schools. 

[Leftfield 2,617]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

And Joe is responsible for almost half of those deaths.  Why did the death counts stop after the inauguration?

Take a close look at this graph and when the deaths occurred. Inauguration Day, as you know, is January 20.

If after looking at this, you still honestly believe Biden should be considered responsible for half of the deaths, then any arguments you posit from here on that are based on your "logic" are null and void.

[I_M4_AU 7,865]

51 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Most corporations will probably welcome the requirement. Just last month saw a conference in Colorado involving a team of engineers and government personnel blown to hell and back by a positive check of one the attendees unvaccinated  wife. Turns out the attendee positive also. All meetings canceled. Flight and accommodation expenses, salaries,…..all for naught. Not to mention lost time on project schedule. 

As far as working for or contracting with government pretty simple. Play to their safety standards or do not play.

Of course corporations will welcome this requirement.  It is the same as Facebook wanting the government to step in regarding censorship.  They don’t want to make those decisions because of the repercussions.

Now corporations are absolved of responsibility of making their own policies and is backed up by the government.  Joe just absolved them of all responsibility.  They are now more dependent on the government.

Joe has stated that if you are vaccinated you are safe and are highly unlikely to become deathly ill if you come down with Covid from an unvaccinated person.  So what’s the problem?  He also said at least 75% of Americans that can take the shot have at least one dose.  Wasn’t his goal 70% to open up the country?  When will this end?  Under Biden; never.

Also, OSHA is being used to set up this mandate, not the constitution.  It’s a workaround and is why the 100 employee rule.  Interestingly, the unions are pushing back because the unions have not been brought into the conversation. If there is a change in contract, it is negotiable.  This is why the USPS were being exempt.  The man is unhinged.

[Leftfield 2,617]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

Of course corporations will welcome this requirement.  It is the same as Facebook wanting the government to step in regarding censorship.  They don’t want to make those decisions because of the repercussions.

Huh. It's almost like you're saying corporations won't do the right thing unless forced to by the government. I'm sure that's just in this case, though.

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Joe has stated that if you are vaccinated you are safe and are highly unlikely to become deathly ill if you come down with Covid from an unvaccinated person.  So what’s the problem?  He also said at least 75% of Americans that can take the shot have at least one dose.  Wasn’t his goal 70% to open up the country?  When will this end?  Under Biden; never.

Not sure about Biden, but my recollection was the CDC said 75-80% would need to be fully vaccinated for herd immunity to even have a real chance. If you have a quote that shows Biden saying 70%, with some of them only having one shot, I'd like to see it. 

 

7 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Also, OSHA is being used to set up this mandate, not the constitution.  It’s a workaround and is why the 100 employee rule.  Interestingly, the unions are pushing back because the unions have not been brought into the conversation. If there is a change in contract, it is negotiable.  This is why the USPS were being exempt.  The man is unhinged.

Biden critics: He's a disaster! One of his main promises was to control the pandemic, and it's worse than ever!

Biden implements additional measures to control the pandemic.

Biden critics: He's unhinged!

And of course this is said with no irony, while the former President is still flinging election lies like they're Mardi Gras beads.

[I_M4_AU 7,865]

3 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Take a close look at this graph and when the deaths occurred. Inauguration Day, as you know, is January 20.

If after looking at this, you still honestly believe Biden should be considered responsible for half of the deaths, then any arguments you posit from here on that are based on your "logic" are null and void.

There were about 400,000 deaths as of Jan. 20th.  Now we are north of 660,000 in less than 9 months. If you project this out, by the end of the year he will be responsible for about half the deaths.  Joe ran on ending the pandemic and now realizes he’s incapable of achieving his campaign promise, so he has resorted to blaming the unvaccinated for his failure.

If you can’t see that the media and political affiliations are treating this pandemic differently and not allowing any unity of purpose, maybe you should consider your thought process as null and void.

[Leftfield 2,617]

19 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

There were about 400,000 deaths as of Jan. 20th.  Now we are north of 660,000 in less than 9 months. If you project this out, by the end of the year he will be responsible for about half the deaths.  Joe ran on ending the pandemic and now realizes he’s incapable of achieving his campaign promise, so he has resorted to blaming the unvaccinated for his failure.

If you can’t see that the media and political affiliations are treating this pandemic differently and not allowing any unity of purpose, maybe you should consider your thought process as null and void.

You apparently can't grasp the graph. Or maybe didn't even look at it? The huge wave of deaths were occurring when he came into office. It was too late to stop that surge. 

There is very good reason to blame the unvaccinated. By and large, they are also the ones opposing mask mandates, or any measure that might lessen the impact of the pandemic. Any step taken to control it is met with outcries of stolen rights and government overreach.

And yet you sit there and blame everyone else about not allowing unity of purpose. I guess it's everyone else that is at fault for that, and not those that are actively preventing measures to stop the pandemic?

Edited September 10, 2021 by Leftfield

[SaltyTiger 7,816]

8 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

When will this end?

IMO, and with good reason, when people wake up and choose to be vaccinated. It should and could be well under control right now.

Me- received JJ vaccine in March. 67 years old. Albeit 20 years ago a smoker. 2 week hospital stay with spontaneous pneumothorax 30 months ago. Hospital with COVID August 21. O2 stayed stable and home August 26.

Attendee of meeting former post: unvaccinated 32 years old in excellent condition. 15 days in hospital including 2 days in ICU and on 40L high flow 02. Home to finish recovery on 02. Never a respiratory problem and former cross country runner.

with that said i do believe that our doctors are correct in urging the vaccine. Hate that this thing has to be so political. It’s damn common sense.

[I_M4_AU 7,865]

21 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

36 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

 

Huh. It's almost like you're saying corporations won't do the right thing unless forced to by the government. I'm sure that's just in this case, though.

Corporations are all about profit.  If they implement a policy that any employee disagrees with, they will have to deal with HR and they are scared to death of the HR.  Biden just absolve that responsibility with his edict. Now the corporation will be fined $14,000 per violation.  The choice is clear.

26 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

36 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

 

Not sure about Biden, but my recollection was the CDC said 75-80% would need to be fully vaccinated for herd immunity to even have a real chance.

Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said he has estimated 70-85% of the population would need to be vaccinated or immune to reach herd immunity.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210322/fauci-says-child-vaccinations-needed-for-herd-immunity#:~:text=Fauci%2C director of the National,immune to reach herd immunity.

This article was back in March of this year.  And yes 70% is the low end, but this doesn’t even consider natural immunity.

31 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Biden critics: He's a disaster! One of his main promises was to control the pandemic, and it's worse than ever!

Biden implements additional measures to control the pandemic.

The man could not bring this country together just by his words so he is now mandating policy and blaming fellow Americans for his troubles.  He is even attaching Governors as part of the problem.  Can he take any responsibility for his failed policies?

[Leftfield 2,617]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Corporations are all about profit.  If they implement a policy that any employee disagrees with, they will have to deal with HR and they are scared to death of the HR.  Biden just absolve that responsibility with his edict. Now the corporation will be fined $14,000 per violation.  The choice is clear.

I'm glad you agree that the government will sometimes have to impose mandates on businesses for them to do the right thing. 

 

4 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

The man could not bring this country together just by his words so he is now mandating policy and blaming fellow Americans for his troubles.  He is even attaching Governors as part of the problem.  Can he take any responsibility for his failed policies?

Could you explain exactly what his policies were and how they failed?

Shockingly he wasn't able to "bring together" a group that largely consists of people that hate him and believe him to be an illegitimate President. That should have been easy, right? How dare he resort to these draconian measures just because he failed to make them like him!

If he really wanted to help unify I guess he should have resorted to insulting and humiliating everyone who didn't agree with him, instead of showing kindness, understanding, and patience.

[I_M4_AU 7,865]

26 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

You apparently can't grasp the graph. Or maybe didn't even look at it? The huge wave of deaths were occurring when he came into office. It was too late to stop that surge. 

There is very good reason to blame the unvaccinated. By and large, they are also the ones opposing mask mandates, or any measure that might lessen the impact of the pandemic. Any step taken to control it is met with outcries of stolen rights and government overreach.

And yet you sit there and blame everyone else about not allowing unity of purpose. I guess it's everyone else that is at fault for that, and not those that are actively preventing measures to stop the pandemic?

The media are the ones that started this ridiculous death count and totally quit when Biden took office.  I’m just pointing out the difference in perception of that ridiculous metric in blaming the President for deaths due to a virus.

If a person is vaccinated and has increased his chance of survival of the virus, why would he blame someone that has chosen not to be vaccinated?  The unvaccinated have made their choice and the results are on them.

As for the unity of purpose; we have a common foe and it’s the virus, yet both sides are blaming others for not controlling and eliminating the virus.  Joe made some campaign promises that were unattainable just like every other President has made during their campaigns.  It also fair game to call him on those promises. 

The only thing an individual can do is protect him/herself from this virus.  Leaders are suppose to influence people to do the right thing.  If you have to force them to do it, you’re not leading.

[I_M4_AU 7,865]

6 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Could you explain exactly what his policies were and how they failed?

Immigration policy, both at the Southern boarder and recently the un-vetted Afghan refugees.

Allowing Covid positive illegal immigrants into the nation during a pandemic he promised to eliminate.

The withdrawal from Afghanistan is too broad a subject get into detail, but it was a disaster.

His trying to spend his way out of the looming inflation is a policy yet to be seen by the general public.

and it’s only 8 months into his Presidency.

14 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

If he really wanted to help unify I guess he should have resorted to insulting and humiliating everyone who didn't agree with him, instead of showing kindness, understanding, and patience

I believe he just did insult and humiliate everyone that have not been vaccinated.  

[I_M4_AU 7,865]

45 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Hate that this thing has to be so political

This is what I have been saying all along.