Please help me understand: Coming out

[Grumps 3,704]

I have an acquaintance who is also a friend on Facebook. He is a really great guy. He has an awesome and beautiful wife and several kids. He recently posted a video where he "came out" as gay. His now ex-wife is apparently supportive of his decision and they plan to both be active in raising their children.

I don't consider myself to be homophobic. I believe that our Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law and that same-sex couples should have the same legal rights as opposite-sex couples. I pretty much always think it is sad when a couple gets divorced, especially if they have children. Despite it being sad, I think that a person should be able to get divorced if they choose, for whatever reason they choose.

I really hate that this seemingly wonderful family is now going through such drastic changes. No matter what, this situation will be very hard for each of them.

What I would love help understanding is the reactions of people on Facebook. Everyone is talking about how brave, or how courageous the guy is. I really don't understand what is courageous about leaving your wife and drastically changing the lives of your children. If they guy came home and told his wife that he realized, after more than a dozen years of marriage, that he decided he was still in love with his high school sweetheart and that he wanted a divorce to go and have a life with his sweetheart then wouldn't everyone think that the guy is an a**hole? Why do people think it is brave to divorce your wife to seek male companionship and horrible to divorce your wife to seek female companionship?

Is there really a difference? Is it just really good marketing by the LGBTQ+ community? I sincerely would like to understand the reactions of all of the people who think the guy was being courageous with his decisions.

Thanks for your help!

[AUDub 11,158]

31 minutes ago, Grumps said:

His now ex-wife is apparently supportive of his decision and they plan to both be active in raising their children.

I don't get what you have a problem with then.

[AU9377 4,979]

1 hour ago, Grumps said:

I have an acquaintance who is also a friend on Facebook. He is a really great guy. He has an awesome and beautiful wife and several kids. He recently posted a video where he "came out" as gay. His now ex-wife is apparently supportive of his decision and they plan to both be active in raising their children.

I don't consider myself to be homophobic. I believe that our Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law and that same-sex couples should have the same legal rights as opposite-sex couples. I pretty much always think it is sad when a couple gets divorced, especially if they have children. Despite it being sad, I think that a person should be able to get divorced if they choose, for whatever reason they choose.

I really hate that this seemingly wonderful family is now going through such drastic changes. No matter what, this situation will be very hard for each of them.

What I would love help understanding is the reactions of people on Facebook. Everyone is talking about how brave, or how courageous the guy is. I really don't understand what is courageous about leaving your wife and drastically changing the lives of your children. If they guy came home and told his wife that he realized, after more than a dozen years of marriage, that he decided he was still in love with his high school sweetheart and that he wanted a divorce to go and have a life with his sweetheart then wouldn't everyone think that the guy is an a**hole? Why do people think it is brave to divorce your wife to seek male companionship and horrible to divorce your wife to seek female companionship?

Is there really a difference? Is it just really good marketing by the LGBTQ+ community? I sincerely would like to understand the reactions of all of the people who think the guy was being courageous with his decisions.

Thanks for your help!

I do understand what you are asking.  It is a fair question. Having very close gay family members and friends, I will attempt to explain the way in which I believe some people see it as being not the exact same.

The reasoning surrounds the choices that the husband believed he had when he decided to get married years ago. If it had been acceptable for him to choose to be in a relationship with a man at that time, and he nonetheless chose to get married to his wife, the two situations would be identical.  What makes them different is that he did not perceive that to be an option due to the society in which he lived.  As he saw life, his options were to stay single, be alone, and be constantly questioned  or get married and fit in.  He chose to get married and fit it.  That is the choice men and women make every day because the vast majority of kids and adults want to fit in and be normal as much as anything else in life.

I don't know the ages of the kids, but if they are still young, I personally believe that he should have sacrificed his personal happiness, if at all possible, in favor of raising the children in the most stable home atmosphere possible.  I was raised by parents that never placed their own happiness above their children.  That doesn't make other parents selfish, but that has always impacted how I view family relationships.

That said, I don't know their personal situation.  This may be for the wife's benefit as much as his own.  This could also be the most healthy way to raise the children and nobody should judge their situation without knowing the actual circumstances.

[TexasTiger 12,964]

1 hour ago, AUDub said:

I don't get what you have a problem with then.

I think he spelled it out. He didn’t slam the guy. He just wonders what about his actions warrant praise and adulation? It’s one thing to say, “yeah, we get it. Hope you’re happier now.” But why praise for bravery? We use “brave” and “hero” to the point they’ve lost their meaning. We now refer to almost any service member who doesn’t go awol as a “hero.” It used to take extraordinary actions like Audie Murphy to be a hero.

[AUDub 11,158]

39 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

I think he spelled it out. He didn’t slam the guy. He just wonders what about his actions warrant praise and adulation? It’s one thing to say, “yeah, we get it. Hope you’re happier now.” But why praise for bravery? We use “brave” and “hero” to the point they’ve lost their meaning. We now refer to almost any service member who doesn’t go awol as a “hero.” It used to take extraordinary actions like Audie Murphy to be a hero.

That is a fair question and one I've grappled with a lot lately. Have a 16 year old that ID's as gay and is "dating" another young lady at the moment. Quotation marks are intentional. 

There is a lot of culture I don't grasp in my 30s and the idea that embracing your homosexuality is an act worthy of automatic praise is one such conundrum. 

Edited October 17, 2021 by AUDub

[DKW 86 7,431]

Sincerely, I think you are just looking at the immediate issues. 

I have several gay friends that did the whole Marriage, Settle Down, and Have Kids Thing. 

They are now divorced, and several years, 15 or more have passed with two of them. They are happy for the first time ever in their lives AND their wives arent trapped in a lie, they are, believe it or not, happier too. The Kids arent seeing their parents fight 24-7 or going thru a bad marriage either, so they are now FAR HAPPIER.

Sometimes the way to correct a wrong is painful. It still has to be done and should be done. I encourage you to look down the road, not at the short term. I promise, the family will bounce back stronger and better off in a while. 

PS: Like Tex said above, I dont know that I would use the term hero. Nothing heroic about a selfish act, but IN THE LONG TERM, I think they all will be happier.

Edited October 17, 2021 by DKW 86

[DKW 86 7,431]

https://www.facebook.com/RobynKincaidHORN

Some of yall will remember my MSNBC Talking head friend. 

She was born Robin Kincaid _____. JD from Alabama. Worked as an attorney and then went into uber liberal radio. 

She is now Robyn Kincaid. She is now transgender and has a date for her transitional surgery. Still married, with grown kids, etc. 

Been very supportive of her because I know she was living in deep pain for so long. Her wife knew that too. So did her children. 

I could go on about friends like this. Believe me. I dont know one that waant happier AND their families, and spouses, werent ultimately happier too.

[Grumps 3,704]

9 hours ago, AU9377 said:

I do understand what you are asking.  It is a fair question. Having very close gay family members and friends, I will attempt to explain the way in which I believe some people see it as being not the exact same.

The reasoning surrounds the choices that the husband believed he had when he decided to get married years ago. If it had been acceptable for him to choose to be in a relationship with a man at that time, and he nonetheless chose to get married to his wife, the two situations would be identical.  What makes them different is that he did not perceive that to be an option due to the society in which he lived.  As he saw life, his options were to stay single, be alone, and be constantly questioned  or get married and fit in.  He chose to get married and fit it.  That is the choice men and women make every day because the vast majority of kids and adults want to fit in and be normal as much as anything else in life.

I don't know the ages of the kids, but if they are still young, I personally believe that he should have sacrificed his personal happiness, if at all possible, in favor of raising the children in the most stable home atmosphere possible.  I was raised by parents that never placed their own happiness above their children.  That doesn't make other parents selfish, but that has always impacted how I view family relationships.

That said, I don't know their personal situation.  This may be for the wife's benefit as much as his own.  This could also be the most healthy way to raise the children and nobody should judge their situation without knowing the actual circumstances.

Great explanation! That makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

FYI kids ages 5-11.

[Grumps 3,704]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Sincerely, I think you are just looking at the immediate issues. 

I have several gay friends that did the whole Marriage, Settle Down, and Have Kids Thing. 

They are now divorced, and several years, 15 or more have passed with two of them. They are happy for the first time ever in their lives AND their wives arent trapped in a lie, they are, believe it or not, happier too. The Kids arent seeing their parents fight 24-7 or going thru a bad marriage either, so they are now FAR HAPPIER.

Sometimes the way to correct a wrong is painful. It still has to be done and should be done. I encourage you to look down the road, not at the short term. I promise, the family will bounce back stronger and better off in a while. 

PS: Like Tex said above, I dont know that I would use the term hero. Nothing heroic about a selfish act, but IN THE LONG TERM, I think they all will be happier.

Thanks!

It is not the guy's actions that confuse me. As I said, he is a great guy and I expect that his actions were well thought out. I hope that he has a happy life. I am confused at why people seem to be saying that it is a good thing for him to be "true to himself" if his true self now (and perhaps always) is as a homosexual, when these same people would be bashing him mercilessly if he performed the same actions to be "true to himself" to go find happiness with another woman. AU9377's answer makes great sense.

I sure hope that you are right about the family being better off in the long run!

[I_M4_AU 7,874]

54 minutes ago, Grumps said:

Great explanation! That makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

FYI kids ages 5-11.

I agree with AU9377 for the most part.  I really don’t think the gay think has anything to do with this as the husband made a self centered decision just like a husband that left for another woman.  What is left unsaid in you OP is the husband involved with another man and has this swayed the *sudden* decision to end his marriage?  You probably don’t know (yet), but I would guess there is and, if true, he is the same as a cheating spouse.  He is just using the gay think as way to be *courageous*. 

 

[PUB78 1,361]

21 hours ago, AUDub said:

That is a fair question and one I've grappled with a lot lately. Have a 16 year old that ID's as gay and is "dating" another young lady at the moment. Quotation marks are intentional. 

There is a lot of culture I don't grasp in my 30s and the idea that embracing your homosexuality is an act worthy of automatic praise is one such conundrum. 

That took courage on your part to say this.

[homersapien 11,393]

On 10/16/2021 at 11:20 PM, Grumps said:

I have an acquaintance who is also a friend on Facebook. He is a really great guy. He has an awesome and beautiful wife and several kids. He recently posted a video where he "came out" as gay. His now ex-wife is apparently supportive of his decision and they plan to both be active in raising their children.

I don't consider myself to be homophobic. I believe that our Constitution guarantees equal protection under the law and that same-sex couples should have the same legal rights as opposite-sex couples. I pretty much always think it is sad when a couple gets divorced, especially if they have children. Despite it being sad, I think that a person should be able to get divorced if they choose, for whatever reason they choose.

I really hate that this seemingly wonderful family is now going through such drastic changes. No matter what, this situation will be very hard for each of them.

What I would love help understanding is the reactions of people on Facebook. Everyone is talking about how brave, or how courageous the guy is. I really don't understand what is courageous about leaving your wife and drastically changing the lives of your children. If they guy came home and told his wife that he realized, after more than a dozen years of marriage, that he decided he was still in love with his high school sweetheart and that he wanted a divorce to go and have a life with his sweetheart then wouldn't everyone think that the guy is an a**hole? Why do people think it is brave to divorce your wife to seek male companionship and horrible to divorce your wife to seek female companionship?

Is there really a difference? Is it just really good marketing by the LGBTQ+ community? I sincerely would like to understand the reactions of all of the people who think the guy was being courageous with his decisions.

Thanks for your help!

Apparently, he's been living a lie for whatever reasons and has decided to be true to himself.

[homersapien 11,393]

11 hours ago, PUB78 said:

That took courage on your part to say this.

That post is rather ironic considering the OP is all about why the guy in question should be considered brave or courageous.

The core problem here is the social stigma associated with being gay.  The OP is about a guy who apparently knuckled under to that stigma when he married a woman.

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

11 hours ago, homersapien said:

 

The core problem here is the social stigma associated with being gay.  

Yeah.  Blowing up on social media with people falling all over each other to call you a hero must be quite traumatizing.

[homersapien 11,393]

12 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

Yeah.  Blowing up on social media with people falling all over each other to call you a hero must be quite traumatizing.

I suspect it was.

[gr82be 14,442]

On 10/16/2021 at 10:20 PM, Grumps said:

Everyone is talking about how brave, or how courageous the guy is. I really don't understand what is courageous about leaving your wife and drastically changing the lives of your children.

I don't see it as courageous in leaving his wife and changing the lives of his children either. What I'm thinking is that it could be considered courageous to come forth at this point in his life to admit what his true feelings are. It can't be an easy thing to go against what your family expects from you. I've seen it in my family and it's life altering for everyone in some way. I just know that, in what I've witnessed, hurt is not intentional for sure but mom's and dad's have dreams too about their children's lives. Adjusting is not easy. You can say all the right things but your beliefs are your beliefs. It's not easy so I'm going to assume that the folks who call it brave or courageous might be basing it off of personal experiences. 

[aubiefifty 16,823]

On 10/16/2021 at 10:53 PM, AUDub said:

I don't get what you have a problem with then.

it is a trap. he acts all innocent and stuff and then bam! out comes his real motive. it is his M.O.

[aubiefifty 16,823]

On 10/17/2021 at 9:58 AM, I_M4_AU said:

I agree with AU9377 for the most part.  I really don’t think the gay think has anything to do with this as the husband made a self centered decision just like a husband that left for another woman.  What is left unsaid in you OP is the husband involved with another man and has this swayed the *sudden* decision to end his marriage?  You probably don’t know (yet), but I would guess there is and, if true, he is the same as a cheating spouse.  He is just using the gay think as way to be *courageous*. 

 

you assume some nasty stuff because the man came out. people do not have to cheat to know they are gay. there are plenty of honorable gays since you seem to have problems understanding that by your wording.

[jj3jordan 2,056]

1 hour ago, aubiefifty said:

you assume some nasty stuff because the man came out. people do not have to cheat to know they are gay. there are plenty of honorable gays since you seem to have problems understanding that by your wording.

You assumed his comments were because the courageous new homosexual "came out".  Not what he said at all.  He didn't say there weren't plenty of honorable gays.  Just this one if he stepped out before coming out.

[I_M4_AU 7,874]

1 hour ago, aubiefifty said:

you assume some nasty stuff because the man came out. people do not have to cheat to know they are gay. there are plenty of honorable gays since you seem to have problems understanding that by your wording.

When people go through a divorce and the couple has a lot of close friends, those friends have a tendency to take sides in the separation.  This couple seemed to have separated because the man, after 12 years of marriage, came out as gay.  One would have to ask themselves why not just end the marriage without this declaration?   What purpose does him coming out as gay possibly serve?  It really is non of anybody’s business.

The coupled may have wanted to get ahead of the conversation and it seemed to have worked, as people have said it was a courageous thing to do.  This is one of the few times in history he could have declared this and been viewed as courageous.  He obviously did not know (or he suppressed his true feelings) for a period of time before he felt his true feelings as being gay.  The man had a least 3 kids with his wife, the last one being 5 years ago, so when do you think he felt he was gay?  Only he can answer that, but the point is, if he was always gay the man fathered several kids.

What would cause a man to upset a marriage with children in such an abrupt manner?  It wasn’t abrupt to the man, but at least to the kids it was.  If he did not know his true feelings when he got married, how did he know he was gay?  Can you believe you are gay without a previous gay relationship?  I have no idea, but it would seem to me you would have to experience this type of relationship before you decide to pursue a gay relationship forsaking your wife of 12 years.

Therefore, he is no better than a man that entered into marriage and had an affair with another woman and decided the grass was greener elsewhere.  It maybe a cynical view, but human nature dictates human behavior.  This has nothing to do with this man being gay, he felt he wanted out of the marriage for whatever reason.

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

12 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Can you believe you are gay without a previous gay relationship?  I have no idea, but it would seem to me you would have to experience this type of relationship before you decide to pursue a gay relationship forsaking your wife of 12 years.

 

When growing up did you first have to get into a relationship with a woman before you knew if you were attracted to women or not, or did you already...just naturally...have an attraction to women from the start? 

[I_M4_AU 7,874]

4 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

When growing up did you first have to get into a relationship with a woman before you knew if you were attracted to women or not, or did you already...just naturally...have an attraction to women from the start? 

Yes, I had girl friends that I wanted to have a more serious relationship that did not include sex.  I had buds that I didn’t feel the same about.  Obviously this guy didn’t………just naturally…….have an attraction to men.  It would have been better for everyone if he did.

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

4 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Yes, I had girl friends that I wanted to have a more serious relationship that did not include sex.  I had buds that I didn’t feel the same about.  Obviously this guy didn’t………just naturally…….have an attraction to men.  It would have been better for everyone if he did.

I don't know if you can say or know that.  A lot of Gay people who knew they were gay from puberty end up in hetrosexual marriages and relationships either because of shame, embarrassment, religion, family unacceptance, etc. 

If you are gay/ and or bi-sexual and believe that you can't come out and that your options are either make yourself establish relationships with the opposite sex or feel like you can't ever have any romantic relationships the rest of your life, a lot of people will choose to hide who they really are. 

 

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by CoffeeTiger

[I_M4_AU 7,874]

7 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

I don't know if you can say or know that.  A lot of Gay people who knew they were gay from puberty end up in hetrosexual marriages and relationships either because of shame, embarrassment, religion, family unacceptance, etc. 

If you are gay/ and or bi-sexual and believe that you can't come out and that your options are either make yourself establish relationships with the opposite sex or feel like you can't ever have any romantic relationships the rest of your life, a lot of people will choose to hide who they really are. 

 

 

Now it seems that coming out, especially in high school, is trending.  You will still have people that can not be true to themselves because of the perceived fear of disappointing either parents or clergy.  That’s life, it doesn’t necessarily mean the parents are preaching to the kids of the joys of marriage, it’s a life they have grown up with and anything different, the kids would believe the parents would be distraught.  It may or may not be the case.

To the second sentence; these are personal choices and change with circumstances and age.  It is personal and that is on the person that decides to make sacrifices for, what they perceive, are the greater good.  Sacrificing is what a lot of people do for what they feel is right even though is may put a strain on them.

[AU9377 4,979]

On 10/17/2021 at 2:04 AM, AUDub said:

That is a fair question and one I've grappled with a lot lately. Have a 16 year old that ID's as gay and is "dating" another young lady at the moment. Quotation marks are intentional. 

There is a lot of culture I don't grasp in my 30s and the idea that embracing your homosexuality is an act worthy of automatic praise is one such conundrum. 

Sometimes a person can handle trying to figure themselves out, even when it is incredibly difficult.  What they can't handle is having to deal with how their situation is impacting those that have always loved them unconditionally.  When that love becomes conditional, they often feel cornered and incapable of seeing the future.  I admire the fact that you are doing all you can do to support your daughter, even if all you can do is just be there.