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Putin's Right-Wing American Shills


CoffeeTiger

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On 2/22/2022 at 4:44 PM, I_M4_AU said:

That piece you posted was a diversion from what has brought us to this point.  Having certain *shills* as they are called *spreading Kremlin propaganda* has nothing to do with what is about to happen.  The ball is squarely in Biden’s court with or without Republican help or resistance.  He made this issue and now he has to work out of it.

He has said for weeks he knew Putin was going to invade, so he should have a plan of attack to immediately implement.  There should be no hesitation.  Republicans, Tucker, or anybody else has little say about the outcome except to rip Biden apart when it fails.

It does amuse me to see the left already blaming Tucker for what may be a cluster of a foreign policy.

Say what you want, the problem is that Putin saw weakness in Biden and took the opportunity. The people I was reading about all of this did not think for a moment that Putin would actually do anything. Wow were we wrong.  But this is Biden's watch. You cannot blame anyone but Biden for what's going on in Ukraine. Biden was part of the Administration that spewed a bunch of nothing talk AND ALLOWED HIM TO TAKE THE CRIMEA. It was plain to him and the rest of the thinking worked that Putin thought that from past history, taking more of Ukraine's land was going to be supported/tolerated by Biden. 

Edited by DKW 86
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12 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

I didn’t misstate anything. He said what he said. 

He said it was genius and he then said he wouldn't have allowed it to happen had he been in office.  In a million years, no less.

We're supposed to take the first thing he said at face value and discount the second thing he said.

Why?

 

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15 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

 

What kind of jackass says things like this?  

He's a jackass, all right.  No argument.  And when he says things like this, I agree it reveals an authoritarian at heart.  That's what he loves about Putin is that Putin is an authoritarian.  He's what Trump wishes he could be in the US.  I won't argue that.

But.

The fact remains that Putin didn't do this while Trump was POTUS.  This is on Biden's watch and more than likely that has something to do with Putin's timing.

If you won't admit that, you are the one twisting yourself into a pretzel for the sake of tribalism.

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I know since no one here on this forum reads a ******* thing that no one here will be able to understand that Putin already has sanctions imposed on him AT THIS TIME. That enitre meaningless meeting at Trump Tower we were told that it was about removing sanctions that were imposed on Russia for an assasination. The Russians are already under what was supposed to be "crippling sanctions." 

Threatening them with slightly more sanctions literally meant nothing APPARENTLY.
Again, all that happened under Obama. We were told for four years trump was going to relieve Russia of the sanctions because trump was such a YUGE fan of Putin. Of course nothing happened. So, trump leaves office and almost exactly a year later Putin strides into Ukraine, almost as if on auto-pilot. Ignores Biden, who was part f the Obama Admin that let him go into the Crimea for basically nothing.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2014/03/20/statement-president-ukraine

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/26/obama-no-cold-war-crimea

Russia's seizure of Ukraine's Black sea peninsula did not herald a new cold war, Obama told 2,000 people gathered in an arts centre in central Brussels in the big speech of his four-day trip to Europe.

But it was also clear that the Kremlin's actions in recent weeks had triggered a deep shift in western perceptions of Putin that would see Russia increasingly isolated internationally and exposed to a spiralling trade war with the west, depending on his next moves.

Putin's decision to redraw his region's borders had caused "a moment of testing", Obama said in a 40-minute speech on his first visit in office to Brussels."Bigger nations can bully smaller ones to get their way," he said. "We must never take for granted the progress that has been won here in Europe and advanced around the world, because the contest of ideas continues. And that's what's at stake in Ukraine today. Russia's leadership is challenging truths that only a few weeks ago seemed self-evident, that in the 21st century the borders of Europe cannot be redrawn with force, that international law matters, that people and nations can make their own decisions about their future."

It was clear Obama had no intention of being drawn into rash action or any kind of dangerous confrontation with Putin over Ukraine. "This is not another cold war that we're entering into. The United States and Nato do not seek any conflict with Russia," Obama said. "Now is not the time for bluster … There are no easy answers, no military solution."

While a major policy shift will take time to become effective, a transatlantic resolve was hardening to break European dependence on Russian energy supplies, with Obama for the first time stating that America's shale gas bonanza could be part of the solution for Europe's vulnerabilities.

Biden is giving an almost word for word response that Putin could not care less to consider.

Crimea - Sanctions
Assassination - Sanctions
Ukraine - Sanctions

Seems Putin knew exactly what was going to happen and he basically said "**** it."

I personally hate what is happening over there. but as Obama said repeatedly about the Crimea, it is not worth a war for a piece of land that is on the other side of the world. 

Edited by DKW 86
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6 minutes ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

He's a jackass, all right.  No argument.  And when he says things like this, I agree it reveals an authoritarian at heart.  That's what he loves about Putin is that Putin is an authoritarian.  He's what Trump wishes he could be in the US.  I won't argue that.

But.

The fact remains that Putin didn't do this while Trump was POTUS.  This is on Biden's watch and more than likely that has something to do with Putin's timing.

If you won't admit that, you are the one twisting yourself into a pretzel for the sake of tribalism.

Tell me you haven't paid attention to Putin's history without telling me...

He invaded Georgia in 2008 while George W. Bush was in office and secured major political concessions from them.

He invaded the Crimea in 2014 while Obama was in office.

He intervened in Syria in 2015 and launched major offensives contrary to what the US wanted and asked them while Trump was in office.

And now we have Ukraine.

Putin does this stuff on his timetable regardless of whether a Republican or Democrat is in office.  And it's laughable that Trump wouldn't have let this happen.  He cozied up to Putin more than anyone in recent memory and was pulling us back from NATO commitments.

Folks need to quit trying to cram this into America's left/right political debate box.  It doesn't fit.

 

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20 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Tell me you haven't paid attention to Putin's history without telling me...

He invaded Georgia in 2008 while George W. Bush was in office and secured major political concessions from them.

He invaded the Crimea in 2014 while Obama was in office.

He intervened in Syria in 2015 and launched major offensives contrary to what the US wanted and asked them while Trump was in office.

And now we have Ukraine.

Putin does this stuff on his timetable regardless of whether a Republican or Democrat is in office.  And it's laughable that Trump wouldn't have let this happen.  He cozied up to Putin more than anyone in recent memory and was pulling us back from NATO commitments.

Folks need to quit trying to cram this into America's left/right political debate box.  It doesn't fit.

 

So Putin does what he wants regardless of who is in office, unless it's Trump, in which case he still doesn't invade another country, and what Trump says is what he says, unless he says something that doesn't fit the "Trump enables Putin" narrative, which we should completely discount.

O.k.

There's someone twisting themselves into a partisan pretzel around here.  But it's not me.

You do have a point regarding Bush.  He was weak all the way back in 2008 and that could have started this whole domino line falling.  

Do you have confidence in Biden to stop it now?

Edited by Shoney'sPonyBoy
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53 minutes ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

So Putin does what he wants regardless of who is in office,unless it's Trump, in which case he still doesn't invade another country, and what Trump says is what he says, unless he says something that doesn't fit the "Trump enables Putin" narrative, which we should completely discount.

Even if it's Trump.  He's invaded someone about every 6-7 years, across administrations and parties.  And during Trump he inserted himself into Syria "doing what he wants" against the wishes of the US and causing far more problems than good.

 

53 minutes ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

O.k.

There's someone twisting themselves into a partisan pretzel around here.  But it's not me.

You keep creatively and narrowly defining the scope of Putin's actions to exclude Trump, so yes, you're twisting yourself into a pretzel. Stop deluding yourself about Trump's strength here.

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On 2/23/2022 at 1:14 PM, aubiefifty said:

if trump was president and the same exact things were happening you would give trump a pass.

This DIDN'T happen and wouldn't under Trump's leadership! Putin has been passionately waiting for the USA to have a President as weak as Biden and I'm sure he still can't believe what a generous gift he has been given in Biden.

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22 hours ago, Grumps said:

I am not trying to make it palatable or normal. He is an idiot and he doesn't care about anything or anyone but himself. I am simply trying to state the truth as I see it. Misstating what he said isn't okay just because he is a pathetic human being.

You are totally missing the point. 

This is not about being frank about how clever or successful Putin is in achieving what he wants.  What he wants is to weaken the western alliance of democracies in Europe and re-build the authoritarian, anti-democratic empire of Russia.

We are (again) at a crossroads similar to what we faced last century. Major authoritarian anti-democratic regimes are vying with democratic countries for political control of the world.  The United States is once again being tested as the foremost champion of the free (democratic) world.

We need to demonstrate to the rest of the world that democracy is the superior form of government and freedom is worth fighting for.

It is therefore unconscionable for a former U.S. president to speak out in praise of this authoritarian tyrant who is plotting the downfall of democracy and freedom.  Doing so is providing direct aid and support to our enemy - the people who would destroy us.

 

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23 minutes ago, keywest said:

This DIDN'T happen and wouldn't under Trump's leadership! Putin has been passionately waiting for the USA to have a President as weak as Biden and I'm sure he still can't believe what a generous gift he has been given in Biden.

That's a view straight from Bizarro world.  Trump has been doing Putin's bidding - and vice versa - from the git go.

Only a complete idiot would make such a post even while Trump's latest ass kissing of Putin is in the daily news.  :laugh:

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, keywest said:

This DIDN'T happen and wouldn't under Trump's leadership! Putin has been passionately waiting for the USA to have a President as weak as Biden and I'm sure he still can't believe what a generous gift he has been given in Biden.

so you mean all those middle east countries the right destroyed to the point amecia does not want another war? get real. this is the same bs as you guys claimed biden screwed the pooch in larryland when he in fact used the same damn plan trump came up with for theo withdrawal.  and now about half the repukes are saying putin is a good guy and blah blah blah.

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1 hour ago, homersapien said:

That's a view straight from Bizarro world.  Trump has been doing Putin's bidding - and vice versa - from the git go.

Only a complete idiot would make such a post even while Trump's latest ass kissing of Putin is in the daily news.  :laugh:

 

 

 

You are the idiot homer. And a liar. Trump NEVER spoke out in praise of Putin. That is YOUR word not his. Sorry for you that when Trump merely states the truth that you mislabel that as praise. Your are continuously full of s*** with your self proclaimed psychiatric diagnoses and just plain hate. Please shut your stinking pie hole until you have something else to say besides your diatribe of hate for trump.

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5 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

so you mean all those middle east countries the right destroyed to the point amecia does not want another war? get real. this is the same bs as you guys claimed biden screwed the pooch in larryland when he in fact used the same damn plan trump came up with for theo withdrawal.  and now about half the repukes are saying putin is a good guy and blah blah blah.

More lies fiddy. Trumps plan had troops in country to cover and protect the withdrawal. Biden took that out and that is why the disaster occurred.  Pretty simple, so simple even you and possibly homer could understand it.  Nobody from the right ever said Putin is a good guy. Leftist like you love commies. Not republicans or conservatives.  

 

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1 hour ago, homersapien said:

You are totally missing the point. 

This is not about being frank about how clever or successful Putin is in achieving what he wants.  What he wants is to weaken the western alliance of democracies in Europe and re-build the authoritarian, anti-democratic empire of Russia.

We are (again) at a crossroads similar to what we faced last century. Major authoritarian anti-democratic regimes are vying with democratic countries for political control of the world.  The United States is once again being tested as the foremost champion of the free (democratic) world.

We need to demonstrate to the rest of the world that democracy is the superior form of government and freedom is worth fighting for.

It is therefore unconscionable for a former U.S. president to speak out in praise of this authoritarian tyrant who is plotting the downfall of democracy and freedom.  Doing so is providing direct aid and support to our enemy - the people who would destroy us.

 

I am not missing the point, but thanks! I agree 100% with everything you said. Trump is a complete scumbag for saying what he said, especially when he said it. He should be bashed to pieces for saying it but there is no need to lie about what he actually said to try to make things even worse.

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On 2/24/2022 at 3:35 PM, homersapien said:

I haven't seen anyone is defending our current system.  :dunno:

Personally, I'd like to see us re-write the constitution and move to a parliamentary system.

I prefer a democratic republic that actually works for the interests of the citizen. 

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5 hours ago, homersapien said:

That's a view straight from Bizarro world.  Trump has been doing Putin's bidding - and vice versa - from the git go.

Only a complete idiot would make such a post even while Trump's latest ass kissing of Putin is in the daily news.  :laugh:

 

 

 

Only an idiot would still believe the loony leftist conspiracy of Trump/Russia, Russia, Russia that has been proven repeatedly to be 100% false! The FACT is this is happening under spineless weak senile Biden. The 100% AVOIDABLE disaster in Afghanistan happened under spineless weak senile Biden.

A typical dishonest leftist liar, Thump NEVER "praised Putin". He stated the OBVIOUS that Putin used the best strategy to go on this offensive while the USA has such absolutely weak leadership and it would completely go uncontested by Biden. 

Edited by keywest
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4 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

so you mean all those middle east countries the right destroyed to the point amecia does not want another war? get real. this is the same bs as you guys claimed biden screwed the pooch in larryland when he in fact used the same damn plan trump came up with for theo withdrawal.  and now about half the repukes are saying putin is a good guy and blah blah blah.

BS...........the debacle in Afghanistan is 100% due to Biden's inept leadership and would have NEVER happened under Trump. Trump DIDN'T have a PLAN to leave 100's of US citizens and Afghanistan to be slaughtered that was Biden paln and RESULTS!  

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9 hours ago, keywest said:

BS...........the debacle in Afghanistan is 100% due to Biden's inept leadership and would have NEVER happened under Trump. Trump DIDN'T have a PLAN to leave 100's of US citizens and Afghanistan to be slaughtered that was Biden paln and RESULTS!  

link?

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2 minutes ago, keywest said:

Common sense? Didn't happen in 4 years under Trump and was a absolute train wreck under Biden that cost many LIVES

no deflections hoss. rules state if you throw something out there you have to be able to back it up. ask titan. so cough it up................

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16 hours ago, autigeremt said:

I prefer a democratic republic that actually works for the interests of the citizen. 

A parliamentary system would be exactly that.  But it would provide for more choices and better representation of various views than with the current system.

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14 hours ago, keywest said:

BS...........the debacle in Afghanistan is 100% due to Biden's inept leadership and would have NEVER happened under Trump. Trump DIDN'T have a PLAN to leave 100's of US citizens and Afghanistan to be slaughtered that was Biden paln and RESULTS!  

Huh?  The Afghanistan war was 19 years and 10 months - our longest.

While I agree that our exit was a terrible example of execution, it was destined to be messy regardless (see Viet Nam).

But your certainly right that Trump didn't have a plan for getting out.  I don't think he was capable of administering the development of such a plan.  He had already run off his capable military advisors.

And you'll need to document your statement that 100's of US citizens were "slaughtered".

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14 hours ago, keywest said:

Only an idiot would still believe the loony leftist conspiracy of Trump/Russia, Russia, Russia that has been proven repeatedly to be 100% false! The FACT is this is happening under spineless weak senile Biden. The 100% AVOIDABLE disaster in Afghanistan happened under spineless weak senile Biden.

A typical dishonest leftist liar, Thump NEVER "praised Putin". He stated the OBVIOUS that Putin used the best strategy to go on this offensive while the USA has such absolutely weak leadership and it would completely go uncontested by Biden. 

Putin has unfinished business in America

Maybe now that the Russian invasion of Ukraine is well underway, the implications of President Vladimir Putin’s actions against the United States in 2016 will finally sink in, especially for Republicans in Congress. The Vladimir Putin who planned, staged and launched a large-scale war on Ukraine is the same Vladimir Putin who ordered an aggressive, multifaceted, clandestine campaign to interfere in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

Putin’s Ukraine goal: pull that country from the West and back into Russia’s sphere of influence. His U.S. goal in 2016: undermine the democratic process, disparage and undercut Hillary Clinton and her campaign for president, and help elect Donald Trump.

The outcome of his Ukraine campaign is yet to be decided. His U.S. effort found full success.

But more than a personality contest was at stake five years ago. To be sure, Putin had his reasons for loathing Clinton. As Barack Obama’s secretary of state, she took a hard line on Russia. She was a vocal supporter of the 2011 protests of Putin’s government. But Putin also had his reasons for wanting Trump in the Oval Office. As with the buildup in his campaign to take Ukraine, Putin was clearly playing a long game: put in place a U.S. president who would pursue policies that weaken the European Union and NATO, the bulwarks against Russian expansion into former Soviet countries. Trump was the answer.

In Trump, Putin finally had a U.S. president who generated more anti-American sentiment in Europe than the Kremlin could ever have hoped to produce on its own.

Perhaps now, Republicans will reappraise reports — which many of them discounted — of Russian social media campaigns aimed at provoking discord in this country. The Russian disinformation campaign to bolster domestic support for an invasion into Ukraine reminded me of the targeted disinformation operations in the 2016 election by the Internet Research Agency, based in St. Petersburg and allegedly controlled by a Russian oligarch tied to Putin.

Now that Russian government hackers have probably penetrated Ukrainian military, energy and other critical computer networks to collect intelligence, skeptical Republican partisans might come to accept the evidence that the Russian intelligence service known as the GRU hacked into the computer networks of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and the Democratic National Committee. Maybe Republicans who turned a blind eye to 2016 will now accept findings that the GRU agents stole hundreds of thousands of documents from the compromised email accounts and networks.

Now that it has been reported that Russian propaganda and misinformation campaigns have been launched on social media platforms and have targeted websites, including those of Fox News in the United States, Le Figaro in France, La Stampa in Italy, and Der Spiegel and Die Welt in Germany, maybe more people in this country will believe findings that the Internet Research Agency purchased political advertisements on social media in the names of Americans and U.S. organizations, and even staged political rallies within the United States in support of Trump.

The simple truth is that Putin believed Russia would benefit from having Trump in the White House, and he pushed his intelligence services to help secure that outcome. Just as he perceives that a subjugated Ukraine benefits Russia and is now working to achieve that end.

There’s a lesson in this for the United States.

Putin said he would not invade Ukraine. He lied. He said Russia did not interfere in our 2016 presidential election. He lied about that, too.

In the present crisis, President Biden has been stalwart in rallying a unified response from NATO and the West. If Americans didn’t believe it before, they sure should believe it now: Putin sees Biden, as he saw Clinton, as an impediment to what he wants.

And Trump, who calls Putin a “genius” and accepts his lie about the presidential election, wants back in.

Russia had success with its information-warfare playbook in 2016. Count on a Russian influence operation conducted through social media to disparage Biden, undermine his leadership and stoke support for his opposition. The goal: defeat an American political enemy.

It worked once before. Wake up, America, to another Russian threat. This time, no one can claim to have not seen it coming.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/25/putin-biden-trump-2024-election-interference/

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1 minute ago, homersapien said:

Putin has unfinished business in America

Maybe now that the Russian invasion of Ukraine is well underway, the implications of President Vladimir Putin’s actions against the United States in 2016 will finally sink in, especially for Republicans in Congress. The Vladimir Putin who planned, staged and launched a large-scale war on Ukraine is the same Vladimir Putin who ordered an aggressive, multifaceted, clandestine campaign to interfere in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

Putin’s Ukraine goal: pull that country from the West and back into Russia’s sphere of influence. His U.S. goal in 2016: undermine the democratic process, disparage and undercut Hillary Clinton and her campaign for president, and help elect Donald Trump.

The outcome of his Ukraine campaign is yet to be decided. His U.S. effort found full success.

But more than a personality contest was at stake five years ago. To be sure, Putin had his reasons for loathing Clinton. As Barack Obama’s secretary of state, she took a hard line on Russia. She was a vocal supporter of the 2011 protests of Putin’s government. But Putin also had his reasons for wanting Trump in the Oval Office. As with the buildup in his campaign to take Ukraine, Putin was clearly playing a long game: put in place a U.S. president who would pursue policies that weaken the European Union and NATO, the bulwarks against Russian expansion into former Soviet countries. Trump was the answer.

In Trump, Putin finally had a U.S. president who generated more anti-American sentiment in Europe than the Kremlin could ever have hoped to produce on its own.

Perhaps now, Republicans will reappraise reports — which many of them discounted — of Russian social media campaigns aimed at provoking discord in this country. The Russian disinformation campaign to bolster domestic support for an invasion into Ukraine reminded me of the targeted disinformation operations in the 2016 election by the Internet Research Agency, based in St. Petersburg and allegedly controlled by a Russian oligarch tied to Putin.

Now that Russian government hackers have probably penetrated Ukrainian military, energy and other critical computer networks to collect intelligence, skeptical Republican partisans might come to accept the evidence that the Russian intelligence service known as the GRU hacked into the computer networks of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and the Democratic National Committee. Maybe Republicans who turned a blind eye to 2016 will now accept findings that the GRU agents stole hundreds of thousands of documents from the compromised email accounts and networks.

Now that it has been reported that Russian propaganda and misinformation campaigns have been launched on social media platforms and have targeted websites, including those of Fox News in the United States, Le Figaro in France, La Stampa in Italy, and Der Spiegel and Die Welt in Germany, maybe more people in this country will believe findings that the Internet Research Agency purchased political advertisements on social media in the names of Americans and U.S. organizations, and even staged political rallies within the United States in support of Trump.

The simple truth is that Putin believed Russia would benefit from having Trump in the White House, and he pushed his intelligence services to help secure that outcome. Just as he perceives that a subjugated Ukraine benefits Russia and is now working to achieve that end.

There’s a lesson in this for the United States.

Putin said he would not invade Ukraine. He lied. He said Russia did not interfere in our 2016 presidential election. He lied about that, too.

In the present crisis, President Biden has been stalwart in rallying a unified response from NATO and the West. If Americans didn’t believe it before, they sure should believe it now: Putin sees Biden, as he saw Clinton, as an impediment to what he wants.

And Trump, who calls Putin a “genius” and accepts his lie about the presidential election, wants back in.

Russia had success with its information-warfare playbook in 2016. Count on a Russian influence operation conducted through social media to disparage Biden, undermine his leadership and stoke support for his opposition. The goal: defeat an American political enemy.

It worked once before. Wake up, America, to another Russian threat. This time, no one can claim to have not seen it coming.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/02/25/putin-biden-trump-2024-election-interference/

So are you saying that this proves Trump colluded with RUSSIA?🤣

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15 hours ago, keywest said:

A typical dishonest leftist liar, Thump NEVER "praised Putin".

Maybe it's you who is being "dishonest" - with yourself.

Fortunately, the rest of the world understands "praise" when they see it:

 

https://www.npr.org/2022/02/23/1082630139/trump-praises-putins-moves

Trump praises Putin's moves as 'savvy'

 

https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/24/politics/donald-trump-praises-putin/index.html

Why Donald Trump can’t stop praising Vladimir Putin

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/putin-eyes-ukraine-invasion-trump-praises-actions-genius/story?id=83062704

As Putin eyes Ukraine invasion, Trump praises his actions as 'genius'

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/donald-trump-praises-pretty-smart-vladimir-putin-for-russias-ukraine-invasion-11645720539

Donald Trump praises ‘pretty smart’ Vladimir Putin for Russia’s Ukraine invasion

 

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-praise-putin-smart-war-ukraine-invasion-1682182

Donald Trump Praises 'Very Smart' Putin During Mar-a-Lago Fundraiser

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-26/trump-s-praise-for-savvy-putin-showcases-party-divide-at-cpac

Trump Praise for ‘Savvy’ Putin Showcases GOP Divide at CPAC

  • Former president praising Putin in break from traditional GOP
  • Some Republicans fear Trump could hurt party in 2022 midterms
 
 
I could go on, and on, and on........

 

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