*Official San Jose St. Post-Game Discussion Thread*

[abw0004 10,112]

56 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Well me personally I remember watching some show on the NFL network where they basically gathered the greatest players who ever played each position and they had a roundtable. Me having played and coached the position of course thought this was amazing to have this group of all time greats sitting down and talking so I was glued watching this.

But anyway Deion or actually it may have been Rod Woodson brought up how it was crazy to him that all his coaches coached to deflect the ball first and try to catch it last as far as how to defend. 

When he mentioned this everybody at the table had a reaction agreeing with him as they all seemed to have heard the same thing. Woodson said he always went for the pick. Charles Woodson said if you throw it to his side of the field he felt like you are throwing the ball to him to catch it. Then Deion said this very important phrase. He said most corners are playing in fear not to get burnt. He said the special guys are playing not to defend but to get the ball away from the offense. 

I told that to say I basically think that's what a lot of it is. You're taught to stay engaged and watch the WR hands as a tell tell as far as when you can make a play on the ball.  

This part is just a theory and I don't know, but I think maybe they are getting too strictly coached as to they are afraid to adlib and make a play because if they do they may get taken out. That's the only reason I can see why EVERYBODY isn't trying to make plays on the ball at all. 

Also during that show Rod Woodson mentioned how he was blessed to play for coaches that let him play the way that he wanted. They coached him and he played a team game but they didn't do the my way or the highway stuff with him. Sanders then agreed and Ronnie Lott did as well for himself.

I also see the pattern as far as Lawrence Taylor, Charles Haley, Ed Reed, Sean Taylor and many of the greatest players to ever play the game were allowed a certain amount of freedom within the game. 

It's no secret I think we are too dull at our school right now, I also think we are probably waaay too strict and we hold our players back a bit as far as achieving greatness. We had that mass exodus and I know how so many here celebrated it because we like the thought of a player not having feelings and being grateful for what they have so they should shut up and just deal with anything going wrong. And we like the military style of perceived "toughness" and some discipline is absolutely needed......but I think it can be overdone. But all of that is just my opinion. I do have examples I could use to support my take though. 

Thanks for your input and that makes sense.  It is a shame.  We had so much success lately putting talented DBs in the draft as of late because I think Steele did just what you hoped to see.  Carlton Davis is a great example of that.  I hope what we have seen so far is a fluke and not the new normal for our fan base to get used too.

[Didba 5,256]

@W.E.D When you say three man rush what do you mean because watching the game back, we would have three down lineman but rushed four by bringing a guy that’s was standing up at various places on the line depending on down and distance. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

@cole256 Harsin talked about DBs needing to compete for the ball in the air in his presser today. Thankfully something they are emphasizing this week. 

[W.E.D 11,070]

11 minutes ago, Didba said:

@W.E.D When you say three man rush what do you mean because watching the game back, we would have three down lineman but rushed four by bringing a guy that’s was standing up at various places on the line depending on down and distance. 

I was referring to last year

[DAG 33,982]

11 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

 Harsin talked about DBs needing to compete for the ball in the air in his presser today. Thankfully something they are emphasizing this week. 

I was about to say, there is no way they are honestly being taught to not turn their head. Every premier defensive back at the next level plays the ball not the man.

[Didba 5,256]

13 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

I was referring to last year

Oh, I am dumb, I apologize.

[W.E.D 11,070]

48 minutes ago, Didba said:

Oh, I am dumb, I apologize.

Just don't let it happen twice!!

[bigbird 60,522]

3 hours ago, Didba said:

We didn’t rush three on Saturday? I saw a ton of four man rushes. Soft zone though 🤮

There were a few times where we lined up in a 4 man front, but would drop Hall into coverage.  We rushed 3 quite a few times.

1 hour ago, Didba said:

@W.E.D When you say three man rush what do you mean because watching the game back, we would have three down lineman but rushed four by bringing a guy that’s was standing up at various places on the line depending on down and distance. 

I saw a few zone and fire zone blitzes.  It was nice 

[bigbird 60,522]

1 hour ago, Didba said:

Oh, I am dumb, I apologize.

We accept it 

[bigbird 60,522]

6 hours ago, abw0004 said:

@bigbird/ @cole256 what are your thoughts about our DBs being told to face guard only and not turn their heads?  It seems like they are continually being put in tough positions because of this.

 

[cole256 17,059]

59 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Thanks for your input and that makes sense.  It is a shame.  We had so much success lately putting talented DBs in the draft as of late because I think Steele did just what you hoped to see.  Carlton Davis is a great example of that.  I hope what we have seen so far is a fluke and not the new normal for our fan base to get used too.

I think it's beyond Steele. It was absolutely idiotic to get rid of the two secondary coaches we had. Imo that may have been Harsin's biggest mistake was not keeping mcgriff. 

People let it go because they were so happy to say etheridge was our new coach. I don't think the secondary played bad last year. We were in a new scheme with no pass rush. If we had been patient we would've been really good, but for whatever reason we hate to give guys a chance to grow. 

[bigbird 60,522]

@abw0004, I'm in Houston the next couple of days starting my son's drug trial.  I'll work on something when I get home and settled. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

1 minute ago, bigbird said:

@abw0004, I'm in Houston the next couple of days starting my son's drug trial.  I'll work on something when I get home and settled. 

Pray that goes well!

[Didba 5,256]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

There were a few times where we lined up in a 4 man front, but would drop Hall into coverage.  We rushed 3 quite a few times.

I saw a few zone and fire zone blitzes.  It was nice 

I have trouble telling when it’s a four man front with a disguised fourth rusher standing up versus a three man front with a true fire blitz from a LBer who’d otherwise be in zone. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by Didba

[bigbird 60,522]

10 minutes ago, Didba said:

I have trouble telling when it’s a four man front with a disguised fourth rusher standing up versus a three man front with a true fire blitz from a LBer who’d otherwise be in zone. 

Not trying to be smart, but that's kinda the point 😂 

 

Sometimes you can pick up on individual tells.  Sometimes it's alignment or pre-snap movement. Sometimes you can read the eyes, but really it's about post snap recognition.

[Didba 5,256]

4 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Not trying to be smart, but that's kinda the point 😂 

 

Sometimes you can pick up on individual tells.  Sometimes it's alignment or pre-snap movement. Sometimes you can read the eyes, but really it's about post snap recognition.

I was about to say if I could just see the play sheets it’d be real easy to pick up!!
 

I’d like to see us run some cover 1 with a safety coming down and linebacker drifting a bit backward in zone covering the middle of the field with everyone else in man. Two zones covering both sides of the 10 down line then man everywhere else. Not sure if it’s too complex for our young secondary. 

Cover 2 invert would be nice to see as well to protect the middle of the field. The inverted safety in cover 2 zone fools QBs that think the safety is dropping deep but actually covers the middle of the field. I think Mercer was in cover 2 invert when TJ threw his first pick. Safety creeped backwards then sprinted forward into the zone, TJ threw it right at him bc for TJ that safety was supposed to be dropping back into coverage deep. 
 

also some zone plays that show a LBer/DB on an outside blitz but then they drop into coverage right where the slant right is run. I think it’s cover 3 or maybe a variation of Cover 2?

Edited September 13, 2022 by Didba

[bigbird 60,522]

2 minutes ago, Didba said:

I was about to say if I could just see the play sheets it’d be real easy to pick up!!
 

I’d like to see us run some cover 1 with a safety coming down and linebacker drifting a bit backward in zone covering the middle of the field with everyone else in man. Two zones covering both sides of the 10 down line then man everywhere else. Not sure if it’s too complex for our young secondary. 

Cover 2 invert would be nice to see as well to protect the middle of the field. The inverted safety in cover 2 zone fools QBs that think the safety is dropping deep but actually covers the middle of the field. I think Mercer was in cover 2 invert when TJ threw his first pick. Safety creeped backwards then sprinted forward into the zone, TJ threw it right at him bc for TJ that safety was supposed to be dropping back into coverage deep. 
 

also some zone plays that show a LBer/DB on an outside blitz but then they drop into coverage right where the slant right is run. I think it’s cover 3 or maybe a variation of Cover 2?

Honestly, until they get more comfortable in space, I'd be living in man-under concepts. I'd also be seeing what my back up safeties looked like, even if to just light a fire.

[Didba 5,256]

7 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Honestly, until they get more comfortable in space, I'd be living in man-under concepts. I'd also be seeing what my back up safeties looked like, even if to just light a fire.

Yeah I barely know what I am talking about execution wise. I just know those zones/man-zone hybrid protect the areas we were being hurt by SJSU. I’m sure they are fairly complex. My experience with secondary play is entirely theoretical. 

[Didba 5,256]

13 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Honestly, until they get more comfortable in space, I'd be living in man-under concepts. I'd also be seeing what my back up safeties looked like, even if to just light a fire.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2154983-nfl-101-breaking-down-the-basics-of-2-man-coverage
 

this article. Man, I still have so much to attempt to learn about secondary play. Geez. I thought I had a good grasp. 

[bigbird 60,522]

26 minutes ago, Didba said:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2154983-nfl-101-breaking-down-the-basics-of-2-man-coverage
 

this article. Man, I still have so much to attempt to learn about secondary play. Geez. I thought I had a good grasp. 

I'd run a lot of cv2 robber trying to protect that middle hole.

[abw0004 10,112]

11 hours ago, bigbird said:

@abw0004, I'm in Houston the next couple of days starting my son's drug trial.  I'll work on something when I get home and settled. 

No problem at all.  Take all of the time you need.  I hope the trial goes well!

[Dshep4au 266]

11 hours ago, bigbird said:

@abw0004, I'm in Houston the next couple of days starting my son's drug trial.  I'll work on something when I get home and settled. 

Praying for your son and the doctors for a successful trial🙏

[bigbird 60,522]

17 minutes ago, Dshep4au said:

Praying for your son and the doctors for a successful trial🙏

Thank you so very much! We meet for our initial visit in 9 minutes and are equally excited for the potential success and terrified for the potential disappointment of it not working.  Any and all prayers are needed. Thank you, again.