Baseball hosting a regional

[Gr82batigr 97]

3 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

I's argue BP is our best coach in all sports.

Ok. I’m listening. 

[KansasTiger 3,261]

1 minute ago, Gr82batigr said:

Ok. I’m listening. 

If you don't agree, tell me who you think is? The baseball coach you just slammed, the softball coach that just lost in the regional round for like the fifth time in a row it seems, or the mostly unproven football HC in his first year?

'I'm listening'...

[Gr82batigr 97]

2 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

If you don't agree, tell me who you think is? The baseball coach you just slammed, the softball coach that just lost in the regional round for like the fifth time in a row it seems, or the mostly unproven football HC in his first year?

'I'm listening'...

I’m not touting a best HC. They’re all class folks but streaky because it boils down to player leadership in my opinion. Our coaches put trust in the players to perform at a high level but the players aren’t complementing their coaches trust.  We’re missing player development and player leadership in all major sports for some reason. I have no idea why our beloved sports teams can’t excel but it gets frustrating nonetheless. 

[KansasTiger 3,261]

15 minutes ago, Gr82batigr said:

I’m not touting a best HC. They’re all class folks but streaky because it boils down to player leadership in my opinion. Our coaches put trust in the players to perform at a high level but the players aren’t complementing their coaches trust.  We’re missing player development and player leadership in all major sports for some reason. I have no idea why our beloved sports teams can’t excel but it gets frustrating nonetheless. 

Ah I see. The old, make a case so i can hear it. Oh me? I'm not taking a stance even though I brought it up lol.

[Gr82batigr 97]

11 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

Ah I see. The old, make a case so i can hear it. Oh me? I'm not taking a stance even though I brought it up lol.

I'd argue BP is our best coach in all sports.

Didn’t you state this?

Why is HCBT better than HCBP or any other AUGC?

[KansasTiger 3,261]

8 minutes ago, Gr82batigr said:

I'd argue BP is our best coach in all sports.

Didn’t you state this?

Why is HCBT better than HCBP or any other AUGC?

I did not say anything about this before my first comment responding to you. I have no idea what you're talking about.

My avatar is BP for a reason.

Edited June 4, 2023 by KansasTiger

[Gowebb11 9,424]

For those complaining about Butch, that’s your right. Just cut a check for NIL as you do it. The baseball Big boys in the SEC are playing for recruits with a much bigger pocketbook and lottery scholarships. That’s why so many of us are big fans. BT is doing more with less. No matter the sport or coach, you’re generally only as good as the players you can get. 

[PUB78 1,365]

2 hours ago, tigers23 said:

Another embarrassing effort. Obviously the team didn't deserve to be hosting a regional. Absolutely pathetic effort. Butch should be humiliated. Completely outcoached and talented by an Ivy League and Conference USA school. Pitiful 

This team crashed and burned the last 4  games. It is embarrassing. Butch may have hit his peak at Auburn last year.

[KansasTiger 3,261]

I think alot of people are overreacting to a bad finish. And I get it, leaves a bad taste in your mouth. It's embarrassing to end this way. But BT has done alot here with not alot of resources. He deserves some benefit of the doubt, especially with the level of injuries we had this year.

[1716AU 732]

11 minutes ago, KansasTiger said:

I think alot of people are overreacting to a bad finish. And I get it, leaves a bad taste in your mouth. It's embarrassing to end this way. But BT has done alot here with not alot of resources. He deserves some benefit of the doubt, especially with the level of injuries we had this year.

Help me out, Kansas.  Speaking as a former professor, just what is he missing, other than schorlarships?

[KansasTiger 3,261]

36 minutes ago, 1716AU said:

Help me out, Kansas.  Speaking as a former professor, just what is he missing, other than schorlarships?

I dont know that I'm the best person to answer this, since I don't religiously follow the baseball team until toward the postseason. But he's got two out of our 6 total CWS appearances and our first back to back regional host ever, and while I'm just guessing here, he's probably done it without the most NIL support in the league. He's building something we need for longer term success, prestige. 

[Gowebb11 9,424]

1 hour ago, 1716AU said:

Help me out, Kansas.  Speaking as a former professor, just what is he missing, other than schorlarships?

It’s been said here earlier in the year the Bama’s coach had 3 times the amount of NIL BT has. In 2023, that plus the lack of lottery scholarships is more than enough to put you behind your competitors on the recruiting trail. In spite of that, he’s getting ready to bring in his second Top 10 recruiting class. 

[gr82be 14,502]

If you've played baseball then you know it's one of the hardest games to predict. Auburn baseball is in good hands right now. The Atlanta Braves won 14 consecutive division titles and only 1 WS. They were the best team.in baseball much of that time but their bats went silent when it counted. You can't predict baseball. The big guy doesn't always beat the little guy. 

[Golden Eagle 410]

5 hours ago, PUB78 said:

This team crashed and burned the last 4  games. It is embarrassing. Butch may have hit his peak at Auburn last year.

If you want to talk about embarrassing/disappointing losses, how about Bruce Pearl's former #1 team (with Jabari Smith and Walker Kessler no less) folding in the 2022 postseason with an early exit in both the SEC tournament and the NCAA tournament (only managed to win one game...OUCH)?  Another 'meltdown' in the 2023 NCAA tournament where they, once again, only managed to win one game.  Assuming from your statement above that you would agree results to date would show he hit his peak in 2019.

And yet, Pearl's contract extension in 2022 runs through 2030 and will pay him $5.4 million annually with a $250,000 annual escalator clause. The escalator clause means that Pearl's average salary will be $6.275 million per season and over $50 million for the life of the contract.

Pearl's new contract made him the fourth-highest paid head coach in college basketball at the time, behind only Kentucky's John Calipari, Duke's Mike Krzyzewski and Villanova's Jay Wright.  Do his results warrant the 4th highest pay in the country?

In addition to his multimillion dollar salary, his roster of up to 13 players get full scholarships and, by his own admission, NIL is not an issue in his recruiting efforts.

Contrast that with college baseball in general, and with Auburn in particular.  Butch Thompson's initial contract with Auburn in 2015 paid him $350,000/year (vs the $650,000/year Sunny Golloway was paid before he was fired for cause).  Thompson's contract was re-negotiated in 2018 and he now makes in the neighborhood of $1 million/year with the current contract set to expire in 2024. 

NCAA Division 1 Baseball teams are limited to 11.7 scholarship equivalents (which may be split among more than 12 players);  Auburn shows 39 players on the 2023 roster - so the $ value of 11.7 scholarships is potentially distributed among 39 student athletes.  For the 2022-2023 school year, Auburn's undergraduate tuition and fees was $12,176 for in-state students and $32,960 for out-of-state students. The state of Alabama does not allow waivers of out-of-state tuition for nonresidents.  So, as you can see, it's a hefty burden for an out-of-state student athlete to choose Auburn baseball.  Some states ease this burden by allowing waivers for the out-of-state portion of tuition and fees.  Some state lottery funds award academic scholarships that don't count against the athletic scholarship limits.  And some schools have huge NIL budgets (LSU, for example) for sports like baseball that can cover tuition and living expenses (and more).  Auburn has none of those advantages.  As LPTiger has pointed out when encouraging NIL donations for baseball, these young men aren't using the money to buy cars/clothes/etc - they need it to pay their bills.  And even the in-state baseball athletes aren't getting a full ride.   Same rules apply to softball.  Not sure about other non-football, non-basketball sports (volleyball, gymnastics, soccer, etc.).

And yet, here's what Thompson has accomplished in his 8 years at Auburn:

2016 - no post season

2017 - played in a regional

2018 - won a regional, played in a super regional

2019 - won a regional, super regional, and played in the MCWS

2020 - season cancelled due to COVID

2021 - no post season

2022 - hosted a regional, won super regional hosted by Oregon St, played in the MCWS

2023 - hosted a regional

And he's bringing in another top 10 recruiting class this fall.  Looks to me like Thompson has been at least as effective as Pearl while earning a much lower salary and managing a much bigger roster with a far more limited budget.

To be clear - my intent is not to bash Pearl or AU basketball but to point out a few facts for those bashing Thompson and AU baseball.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by Golden Eagle

[aubaseball 2,670]

Golden, don’t even bother with some on here.   They are trolls!!   Anyone claiming anything about Butch or this season being a waste is a complete joke.   

[woodford 3,677]

16 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

Golden, don’t even bother with some on here.   They are trolls!!   Anyone claiming anything about Butch or this season being a waste is a complete joke.   

For real. They're either Bama trolls or just not very smart. 

[Mikey 16,777]

13 hours ago, KansasTiger said:

I'd argue BP is our best coach in all sports.

Butch Thompson has had Auburn in the college world series (final eight) twice in the last four times it was played. Pearl has made the final eight only once in his career at AU. If facts matter, Butch has done more and done it with less. Pearl is a good coach but he hasn't done anything here to make him better than Thompson.

[Gowebb11 9,424]

For the record, I’m super happy and proud to have both CBP and CBT. Those 2 plus CHF and a United AU should give us some fun years as fans. 

[KansasTiger 3,261]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

Butch Thompson has had Auburn in the college world series (final eight) twice in the last four times it was played. Pearl has made the final eight only once in his career at AU. If facts matter, Butch has done more and done it with less. Pearl is a good coach but he hasn't done anything here to make him better than Thompson.

I'd argue it's alot harder to make the final four than the CWS (with all the double elimination formats), and short of being robbed by the refs Auburn basketball was title game bound and probable national champions while BT's Auburn teams have struggled to find a pulse in Omaha.

Not to mention you're cherry picking here, unless winning SEC regular season and tournement championships don't matter to us anymore.

Edited June 4, 2023 by KansasTiger

[PUB78 1,365]

7 hours ago, Golden Eagle said:

If you want to talk about embarrassing/disappointing losses, how about Bruce Pearl's former #1 team (with Jabari Smith and Walker Kessler no less) folding in the 2022 postseason with an early exit in both the SEC tournament and the NCAA tournament (only managed to win one game...OUCH)?  Another 'meltdown' in the 2023 NCAA tournament where they, once again, only managed to win one game.  Assuming from your statement above that you would agree results to date would show he hit his peak in 2019.

And yet, Pearl's contract extension in 2022 runs through 2030 and will pay him $5.4 million annually with a $250,000 annual escalator clause. The escalator clause means that Pearl's average salary will be $6.275 million per season and over $50 million for the life of the contract.

Pearl's new contract made him the fourth-highest paid head coach in college basketball at the time, behind only Kentucky's John Calipari, Duke's Mike Krzyzewski and Villanova's Jay Wright.  Do his results warrant the 4th highest pay in the country?

In addition to his multimillion dollar salary, his roster of up to 13 players get full scholarships and, by his own admission, NIL is not an issue in his recruiting efforts.

Contrast that with college baseball in general, and with Auburn in particular.  Butch Thompson's initial contract with Auburn in 2015 paid him $350,000/year (vs the $650,000/year Sunny Golloway was paid before he was fired for cause).  Thompson's contract was re-negotiated in 2018 and he now makes in the neighborhood of $1 million/year with the current contract set to expire in 2024. 

NCAA Division 1 Baseball teams are limited to 11.7 scholarship equivalents (which may be split among more than 12 players);  Auburn shows 39 players on the 2023 roster - so the $ value of 11.7 scholarships is potentially distributed among 39 student athletes.  For the 2022-2023 school year, Auburn's undergraduate tuition and fees was $12,176 for in-state students and $32,960 for out-of-state students. The state of Alabama does not allow waivers of out-of-state tuition for nonresidents.  So, as you can see, it's a hefty burden for an out-of-state student athlete to choose Auburn baseball.  Some states ease this burden by allowing waivers for the out-of-state portion of tuition and fees.  Some state lottery funds award academic scholarships that don't count against the athletic scholarship limits.  And some schools have huge NIL budgets (LSU, for example) for sports like baseball that can cover tuition and living expenses (and more).  Auburn has none of those advantages.  As LPTiger has pointed out when encouraging NIL donations for baseball, these young men aren't using the money to buy cars/clothes/etc - they need it to pay their bills.  And even the in-state baseball athletes aren't getting a full ride.   Same rules apply to softball.  Not sure about other non-football, non-basketball sports (volleyball, gymnastics, soccer, etc.).

And yet, here's what Thompson has accomplished in his 8 years at Auburn:

2016 - no post season

2017 - played in a regional

2018 - won a regional, played in a super regional

2019 - won a regional, super regional, and played in the MCWS

2020 - season cancelled due to COVID

2021 - no post season

2022 - hosted a regional, won super regional hosted by Oregon St, played in the MCWS

2023 - hosted a regional

And he's bringing in another top 10 recruiting class this fall.  Looks to me like Thompson has been at least as effective as Pearl while earning a much lower salary and managing a much bigger roster with a far more limited budget.

To be clear - my intent is not to bash Pearl or AU basketball but to point out a few facts for those bashing Thompson and AU baseball.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great information! I love Butch, met him several times and he even gave my family a tour of the baseball facilities his 1st year. I know a few of his classmates and teammates from BSC, and they said he was a great guy and they were very confident he would do well at Auburn.

He does have a few challenges that other schools don’t have. However, when will he win a SEC regular season or tournament championship? He hasn’t came even close to either. I would love to see Auburn win one of these occasionally, not every 25 years or so.

It’s great going to the CWS twice, but the team is 1-4 (20%) on these trips.

[mustache eagle 2,416]

14 hours ago, 1716AU said:

Help me out, Kansas.  Speaking as a former professor, just what is he missing, other than schorlarships?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[LPTiger 5,202]

It is awesome to come here and see some folks passionate about baseball and so many supporting Butch.   There are many very good takes here.   I can't state the facts any better than Golden did above and Gwebb is 100% correct about us needing more NIL $$$.   PUB raises some legit issues.   I'll try to address them.   As color, I played under Coach Baird and had to pay 100% of my tuition, food, rent, books, everything.   To better understand Butch's success, let's look at our history.   Our first team was fielded in 1933 i.e. 90 years ago.   In our entire history, we have appeared in the CWS 6 times -- 67, 76, 94, 97, 19, 22..   In our first 4 appearances we won a total of 2 games.   In 19 we had Mississippi State beat in game 1 if only Edouard Julien could throw the ball from 3rd to 1st for the final out.   Instead he double clutched and threw the ball over our first baseman's head and we lost the game.   In 22 we beat Stanford.   So Butch has 1 of our only 3 wins in the CWS and SHOULD have another one.    In our entire history, we have appeared in 7 super regionals.   Butch has 3 of the 7.  He won 2 of the 3 and should have won the other one as well.   In 2018 we were sent to Gainesville.   We split the first 2 games.   In the 3rd game, in the bottom of the 11th, UF sent a ball to deep right field.   Stephen Williams camped under it and jumped up to make the catch inside the outfield wall.   Somehow, someway the ball bounced up and out of Stephen's glove and went over the fence for a walk off HR.   Butch has been our coach for 7 seasons not counting the canceled covid season of 2020 where we were 13-5 when the season got canceled.   The ONLY YEAR he has missed the post season was 2021.  in that year we lost all 3 outfielders to injuries (Williams face fracture tore, Pierce knee, Hall foot).   We last won the regular season conference championship in 1978 i.e. 45 years ago.   We last won the conference tournament in 98.   From a historical perspective Butch has outperformed all of his peers and it isn't even close except for what Coach Baird did.   Why has Auburn historically not performed as well in baseball?   One main issue -- the 11.7 scholarship issue.   Most of our peers have had some form of the Hope scholarship so that their players could get a free ride or the endowment like Vandy so kids get a free ride.   Historically if you wanted to play baseball at Auburn you had to pay Auburn for that privilege.   Second issue -- Facilities -- in the 90's ours were the best in the country.   Currently ours are around the 9th best IN THE CONFERENCE.   Arky for example has an INDOOR INFIELD.  It is insanely awesome.    Third issue -- no waiver for out of state tuition.     Watch Bryson Ware's interview above.   A Mississippi kid who did not get an offer from either State or Ole Miss is our best offensive player.    Butch is doing it by getting some kids everybody wanted (Irish and Stanfield for example) but also with kids who didn't have many options.   Kason Howell was our centerfielder for 6 years because his dad coached football here and he feel in love with Auburn.   But, we now have the power to change all of this.   The 11.7 scholarship issue isn't as big of an issue anymore if we will all just open up our wallets a little bit.   Hate it or not we can level the playing field with the advent of NIL.   But we currently are not taking advantage of this tool.   As of the LSU series 3 weeks ago, just 13 people had written checks to baseball.   If you want to see us do better, you can actually do something about it by going to "ontovictory.com", click the top left icon, click "other ways to give", click the "donate" button and be sure to click "choose a sport you want your donation to benefit" and select baseball.   No amount is too small.   War Eagle.  

[LPTiger 5,202]

14 hours ago, 1716AU said:

Help me out, Kansas.  Speaking as a former professor, just what is he missing, other than schorlarships?

1716, please see my post above...   As an aside, since you are a former professor, Dr. Street was my stats professor in the early 80's.   I loved the guy.  He made learning fun and stats was fun in his clsss.   We had an away series and our travel schedule interfered with our final exam.   I went to Dr. Street and explained the situation to him.  He told me how much he appreciated me being in class everyday, sitting up front and doing really well on all of our prior exams.  He told me I could take the final in his office when we got back to campus.   That Monday I showed up at his office ready to take the final.   He let me in his office and asked me to sit.   We visited about the series for a few minutes, and he said let me ask you a couple of stat questions.   After about 10 minutes he said "I'm glad you proved me to be correct."   I told him I didn't understand.   He said "son you have worked hard all quarter, you have shown up for every class, you sit up front and you participate.    You have done well on all of my prior exams.  I turned your grade in Friday.   You earned an A in my class."   Colonel Bob Merritt was another great professor I had at Auburn.   Colonel Merritt would tell me "one day you will wear Brooks Brothers suits."   When I finished law school and bought my first suit, I did so in honor of that special man -- it was a Brooks Brothers.   I hope you know how much professors like yourself can have such a positive impact on young people.

 

[Gowebb11 9,424]

4 hours ago, LPTiger said:

Third issue -- no waiver for out of state tuition.  

Very informative post @LPTiger  regarding the out of state waiver, do you see John Cohen working to get that changed? I know he is a big baseball guy and understands what is needed to make us more competitive. 

[LPTiger 5,202]

On 6/4/2023 at 3:59 PM, Gowebb11 said:

Very informative post @LPTiger  regarding the out of state waiver, do you see John Cohen working to get that changed? I know he is a big baseball guy and understands what is needed to make us more competitive. 

Sorry GWebb I've been out of town for a few days.  You raise a good question.   John was, as you know, the baseball coach at state as well as AD.  He knows how valuable the waiver is.   In Mississippi, all border states are treated as Mississippi for tuition purposes.   If we could do that and open up Ga, Miss and Florida (to a lesser extent Tenn) it would be huge.   Dr. Roberts appreciates how good sports teams can lift the entire university.   We have never had better alignment.   I suspect it could happen.