Is it time to disrupt higher education’s control over the job market?

[TexasTiger 13,017]

Interesting ideas on this thread:

 

[AU9377 5,039]

4 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Interesting ideas on this thread:

 

I don't think higher education has a hold on the job market.  Companies are going to hire people for a couple of reasons.  The first is potential and the second is a connection within the company.  In general, they want the brightest with the most potential.  Those applicants usually also seek out higher education.  I am all for changing the way higher education works, but higher education is one of the things that the U.S. has gotten right historically.  We give too much weight to standardized tests when it comes to admissions in higher education today.  That has contributed to the race to be ranked highly, which has little to do with an institution's purpose.

[TexasTiger 13,017]

4 hours ago, AU9377 said:

I don't think higher education has a hold on the job market.  Companies are going to hire people for a couple of reasons.  The first is potential and the second is a connection within the company.  In general, they want the brightest with the most potential.  Those applicants usually also seek out higher education.  I am all for changing the way higher education works, but higher education is one of the things that the U.S. has gotten right historically.  We give too much weight to standardized tests when it comes to admissions in higher education today.  That has contributed to the race to be ranked highly, which has little to do with an institution's purpose.

Did you read the whole thread?

[AU9377 5,039]

8 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Did you read the whole thread?

I honestly didn't realize there was more the first time I opened it up.  That is what I get for reading and replying on my phone... lol

Now that I have read the entire proposal, I'm not against it.  What he is proposing is a sort of GED for basic education post high school diploma.  I have always believed that the intangibles of a college degree are as important as the actual knowledge gained in most fields.  I still believe that, but everyone's life experiences vary so greatly in a country of 350 million people that some gain those intangibles outside the campus atmosphere.

Over the past 30 plus years, we have been moving farther and farther from general education and more toward focused or specialized education.  From a young age, many are labeled as being better at science or the arts and thereafter their education is focused in those areas.  Some burn out or simply grow in a different direction, but are then left without that well rounded base of knowledge.  That is a different discussion altogether though...

Edited May 5 by AU9377

[TexasTiger 13,017]

2 hours ago, AU9377 said:

I honestly didn't realize there was more the first time I opened it up.  That is what I get for reading and replying on my phone... lol

Now that I have read the entire proposal, I'm not against it.  What he is proposing is a sort of GED for basic education post high school diploma.  I have always believed that the intangibles of a college degree are as important as the actual knowledge gained in most fields.  I still believe that, but everyone's life experiences vary so greatly in a country of 350 million people that some gain those intangibles outside the campus atmosphere.

Over the past 30 plus years, we have been moving farther and farther from general education and more toward focused or specialized education.  From a young age, many are labeled as being better at science or the arts and thereafter their education is focused in those areas.  Some burn out or simply grow in a different direction, but are then left without that well rounded base of knowledge.  That is a different discussion altogether though...

I believe the intangibles are important, too. But colleges have done such a poor job with affordability and, frankly, delivering the intangibles in an increasingly coddled environment. Yet, they have faced little impetus to truly reflect on what they’re doing and make changes. In fact, trends are toward even longer degree programs.

[TexasTiger 13,017]

Follow up:

 

[AU9377 5,039]

On 5/5/2024 at 11:02 AM, TexasTiger said:

I believe the intangibles are important, too. But colleges have done such a poor job with affordability and, frankly, delivering the intangibles in an increasingly coddled environment. Yet, they have faced little impetus to truly reflect on what they’re doing and make changes. In fact, trends are toward even longer degree programs.

One of the things that has to change is the way universities allocate spending.  We don't have to look far to see the massive spending that has taken place building grand structures and replacing buildings that are perfectly operational with new buildings.  Hundreds of millions are spent that have very little to do with education.  It looks really nice, but that doesn't make it necessary.   All over the world, institutions use buildings that are 100 to 200 years old and more, while we urgently replace 40 year old dorms and classroom buildings. 

There are other things eating at the core of higher education.  Tenure often insulates ineffective or lazy professors.  The race for rankings distorts admissions requirements in favor of standardized testing.  I actually like some of the things that Texas does when it comes to admissions.  Specifically, their requirements to accept students from every region of the state. It is really a complicated set of issues without one magic pill to fix it all..

[auburnatl1 5,038]

18 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

One of the things that has to change is the way universities allocate spending.  We don't have to look far to see the massive spending that has taken place building grand structures and replacing buildings that are perfectly operational with new buildings.  Hundreds of millions are spent that have very little to do with education.  It looks really nice, but that doesn't make it necessary.   All over the world, institutions use buildings that are 100 to 200 years old and more, while we urgently replace 40 year old dorms and classroom buildings. 

There are other things eating at the core of higher education.  Tenure often insulates ineffective or lazy professors.  The race for rankings distorts admissions requirements in favor of standardized testing.  I actually like some of the things that Texas does when it comes to admissions.  Specifically, their requirements to accept students from every region of the state. It is really a complicated set of issues without one magic pill to fix it all..

Your point is getting more and more attention ie this example about LSU was  given by John Oliver last week. A lazy river?

https://swimswam.com/lsu-opens-new-lazy-aquatics-center/

[CoffeeTiger 5,179]

A big thing with that idea is, how do you start it? 

What motivation would all these major companies have to create a simpler, easier bypass of University degrees? 

I don't think America largest and most prestigious corporations are necessarily having problems finding employees with basic/bachelor level math, history, and English skills. Entry level positions for college graduates are usually some of the most competitive and sought after jobs there are. I don't see where the incentive would be for companies to take someone with a 'proficiency certificate' for taking online tests over someone who actually completed a full degree program at a University. Even if this proposed program got started, you would still have plenty of people who would pay out or take on debt for the full degree to put themselves ahead of all the others. 

Frums solution seems based on the assumption that Companies believe they would directly benefit from their employees not having student debt and not having to have gone through the rigors of a college education, but I don't really follow that logic. Unless the unspoken logic is that companies could then drastically lower the wages and benefits of their entry level employees due to them having less credentials, and should expect less compensation in return?

I don't know. 

If anything companies are having problems finding skilled labor in very specific areas and specializations that some online proficiency tests could never really gage or be realistically possible without some sort of formal training and education. 

I could see colleges letting some students who display good proficiency in some of the basics to be able to skip those classes and make their overall degree program shorter and thus cost less overall. 

 

 

[AU9377 5,039]

44 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

If anything companies are having problems finding skilled labor in very specific areas and specializations that some online proficiency tests could never really gage or be realistically possible without some sort of formal training and education. 

I could see colleges letting some students who display good proficiency in some of the basics to be able to skip those classes and make their overall degree program shorter and thus cost less overall. 

 

 

This is a very accurate statement.

Schools have greatly increased the number of classes that can be credited in high school by students taking advanced placement courses.  Of course, those kids aren't usually the ones that would need a proficiency exam of some kind anyway.