FL Police Officer Shoots Air Force Airman To Death for Answering Apartment Door While holding a Gun by his side.

[I_M4_AU 8,030]

3 hours ago, AU9377 said:

In a situation where there is a pursuit

In Chicago the police are not even allowed to pursue a suspect, so yeah regionally there is different rules, no real standards.

3 hours ago, AU9377 said:

We then have a situation where the officer never has a weapon pointed at him, yet shoots the resident and then yells at him to "drop the gun." 

I am not aware of any rule that says a weapon has to be pointed at or used in a manner in which the office’s life could be in danger.  A lot of shootings have just had guns and/or knifes present and been *good shoots*.  Again, no standards.  As to shooting the suspect and then telling him to *drop the gun* I’m sure is just his training as there is the possiblility the suspect is still capable of shooting the officer.

This one will take a while to sort out.

[Aufan59 82]

6 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Yes it is a right and alway will be.  With any right there comes responsibility, which in this case, seems to be difficult to comprehend.  

What was not responsible?

 

What other rights can get you murdered in your own home by government when you exercise them?

[I_M4_AU 8,030]

50 minutes ago, Aufan59 said:

What was not responsible?

 

What other rights can get you murdered in your own home by government when you exercise them?

Your right to privacy in your own home when being served a *no knock warrant*.

[AU9377 5,109]

5 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

In Chicago the police are not even allowed to pursue a suspect, so yeah regionally there is different rules, no real standards.

I am not aware of any rule that says a weapon has to be pointed at or used in a manner in which the office’s life could be in danger.  A lot of shootings have just had guns and/or knifes present and been *good shoots*.  Again, no standards.  As to shooting the suspect and then telling him to *drop the gun* I’m sure is just his training as there is the possiblility the suspect is still capable of shooting the officer.

This one will take a while to sort out.

The problem is showing a reasonable fear of imminent harm of some kind.  If having a weapon alone was enough to justify any shooting, anyone legally carrying could be shot and killed with no consequences.  The added problem here is that this guy was in his home and doing nothing to suggest that the officer was in danger of being harmed.

[AU9377 5,109]

12 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

That’s why it was a question, not a statement.

When confronting a police officer a citizen has to be aware of the possibility he/she may be thought of as a combatant if they are welding a weapon.  The perception is all on the police officer and that is what matters in the moment.

The officer has limits like anyone else.  His cause for the use of force has to be reasonable.  The standard isn't just what he thinks is reasonable at the time, but what others, given the same set of facts, would consider reasonable.

If he/she can't handle that, they don't need to be in that position.

Edited May 12 by AU9377

[AUDub 11,187]

I’m at a loss for folks that think a gun in hand isn’t an immediate threat. 

[I_M4_AU 8,030]

2 hours ago, AU9377 said:

The officer has limits like anyone else.  His cause for the use of force has to be reasonable.  The standard isn't just what he thinks is reasonable at the time, but what others, given the same set of facts, would consider reasonable.

If he/she can't handle that, they don't need to be in that position.

The police officer’s perception, in the moment, is what he reacts to.  Once the deed is done, It is up to his supervisor and lawyers to sort out the details.  If the officer is true to his training, he shouldn’t have a problem.

[AUDub 11,187]

18 hours ago, Aufan59 said:

Don’t open your own door, in your own house, exercising your own rights?

A right that entails the ability to deal death with a simple point and pull of a trigger.

This is the tragedy of a right that doesn’t allow law enforcement to have a monopoly of force. 

[Aufan59 82]

4 hours ago, AUDub said:

A right that entails the ability to deal death with a simple point and pull of a trigger.

This is the tragedy of a right that doesn’t allow law enforcement to have a monopoly of force. 

I’m not immediately disagreeing with that premise, but it is a right.

 

Imagine the government showing up to your home and murdering you when you exercise other rights, like your right to free speech, or your right to remain silent.  

Edited May 12 by Aufan59

[Aufan59 82]

11 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

Your right to privacy in your own home when being served a *no knock warrant*.

You’ll have to explain this one.  When does this get you murdered by the government?

[I_M4_AU 8,030]

5 hours ago, Aufan59 said:

You’ll have to explain this one.  When does this get you murdered by the government?

A person in his own home and the police storm in, the person thinks he is being invaded and is shot.  Like this case, if it was at the wrong address, the home owner is protecting his property lawfully and is shot.

[AU9377 5,109]

10 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

The police officer’s perception, in the moment, is what he reacts to.  Once the deed is done, It is up to his supervisor and lawyers to sort out the details.  If the officer is true to his training, he shouldn’t have a problem.

Nobody, nowhere, is trained to shoot to kill when someone opens a door holding a weapon pointed at the floor.  He shot the man 6 times for no reason other than him opening the door.  The rules have to apply to everyone.  If a 70 year old white man had opened the door holding a shotgun pointed at the floor, should he immediately be gunned down?  Of course not. 

This officer should NEVER have a badge and is a murderer.  He will be spending the majority of the rest of his life in prison, where he belongs.  Just watch the body cam footage. There is no justification for that.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/05/10/roger-fortson-shooting-police-video-released/73636102007/

[I_M4_AU 8,030]

25 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Nobody, nowhere, is trained to shoot to kill when someone opens a door holding a weapon pointed at the floor.

I said *IF* he followed training he shouldn’t have anything to worry about.  I won’t be determining that and neither will you.  Let it play out, you’ve got this guy in prison already.

I wonder why the officer felt threatened, maybe we should wait until he speaks and gives us a defense.

[AU9377 5,109]

48 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I said *IF* he followed training he shouldn’t have anything to worry about.  I won’t be determining that and neither will you.  Let it play out, you’ve got this guy in prison already.

I wonder why the officer felt threatened, maybe we should wait until he speaks and gives us a defense.

You obviously didn't watch the body cam video.  There is no way to justify that shooting.  The only things that will matter are clear on that video.  The officer had no reason to fear for his life.  There was no disturbance taking place when he approached the door.  He had no warrant and no other reason to be there.  The woman, we can just identify her as Karen for conversation purposes, tells him that she heard someone arguing there 2 weeks ago.  He bangs on the door and then steps away from view, which prevented the occupant from seeing who was at the door.  He begins firing immediately without any demand being made when the door is opened.

The complex is a high end apartment complex, not some crime ridden, crime infested, corner of the world.  This is Ft Walton Beach, for crying out loud.   If he felt threatened, he is a coward.  He should have never been given a badge.  You don't shoot first and ask questions later as a police officer.  As a public servant, he is absolutely subject to being questioned by the public he serves.

[Gowebb11 9,417]

25 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

The complex is a high end apartment complex, not some crime ridden, crime infested, corner of the world.  This is Ft Walton Beach, for crying out loud.

Great point. So why did the homeowner feel threatened enough to, in the middle of the day, to grab a gun simply by hearing a knock on his door by someone identifying themselves as the sheriff’s office? And if you truly feel threatened and have a weapon to defend yourself with, why open the door at all? Aren’t you safer calling 911 if you’re already armed and behind a locked door. 
This is a terrible tragedy but there are many questions to be answered before we absolve/imprison the officer. Let’s let the investigation play out. 

[auburnatl1 5,200]

Who the hell goes to their front holding a gun? Yes I guess it’s your right but if you’re feeling that threatened - don’t open the door and … call the cops. The bottom line is presenting a gun in any unknown situation introduces a no margin for error scenario,  and demands instant judgement that candidly most people don’t have.

[I_M4_AU 8,030]

5 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Who the hell goes to their front holding a gun? Yes I guess it’s your right but if you’re feeling that threatened - don’t open the door and … call the cops. The bottom line is presenting a gun in any unknown situation introduces a no margin for error scenario,  and demands instant judgement that candidly most people don’t have.

Some people believe if you show a gun to someone that you think will harm you, they will think twice about starting something.  Not true if confronting a police officer.

[auburnatl1 5,200]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

Some people believe if you show a gun to someone that you think will harm you, they will think twice about starting something.  Not true if confronting a police officer.

Understand. I’m a firm believer of the 2nd amendment for most types of gun. But beyond feeing “dodge city” empowered, I wonder what the stats say about if you carry a gun - are you and family truly safer from intruders or threats vs accidental tragedies. 

[I_M4_AU 8,030]

1 minute ago, auburnatl1 said:

Understand. I’m a firm believer of the 2nd amendment for most types of gun. But beyond feeing “dodge city” empowered, I wonder what the stats say about if you carry a gun - are you and family truly safer from intruders or threats vs accidental tragedies. 

It depends on the maturity of the holder.  The airman was young and probably didn’t think of all the ramifications of his actions.  He probably thought it would turn out much different.

[AU9377 5,109]

41 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

Great point. So why did the homeowner feel threatened enough to, in the middle of the day, to grab a gun simply by hearing a knock on his door by someone identifying themselves as the sheriff’s office? And if you truly feel threatened and have a weapon to defend yourself with, why open the door at all? Aren’t you safer calling 911 if you’re already armed and behind a locked door. 
This is a terrible tragedy but there are many questions to be answered before we absolve/imprison the officer. Let’s let the investigation play out. 

 

19 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Who the hell goes to their front holding a gun? Yes I guess it’s your right but if you’re feeling that threatened - don’t open the door and … call the cops. The bottom line is presenting a gun in any unknown situation introduces a no margin for error scenario,  and demands instant judgement that candidly most people don’t have.

I don't disagree, but that isn't the question.  Watching the video is absolutely damning in this situation. The officer is the only party that escalated without any reason whatsoever.

The officer has no legal right to discharge his weapon in this scenario.  None. 

Edited May 12 by AU9377

[AU9377 5,109]

Just now, I_M4_AU said:

It depends on the maturity of the holder.  The airman was young and probably didn’t think of all the ramifications of his actions.  He probably thought it would turn out much different.

Because legally it should have.  He had done nothing wrong. Therefore, he should have been fine opening the door.

[I_M4_AU 8,030]

Just now, AU9377 said:

Because legally it should have.  He had done nothing wrong. Therefore, he should have been fine opening the door.

But he wasn’t was he?  Why don’t you volunteer to go down and lynch the cop because there is no reason for a trial.

[homersapien 11,486]

16 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Understand. I’m a firm believer of the 2nd amendment for most types of gun. But beyond feeing “dodge city” empowered, I wonder what the stats say about if you carry a gun - are you and family truly safer from intruders or threats vs accidental tragedies. 

For what it's worth:

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/center-for-gun-violence-solutions/research-reports/firearm-violence-in-the-united-states

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

Doesn't address "carrying", just ownership and access.

Edited May 12 by homersapien

[AUDub 11,187]

42 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

The officer is the only party that escalated without any reason whatsoever.

The guy was holding a deadly weapon. 

[AUDub 11,187]

Yes yes I get it. “Something something 2nd amendment.”