ACLU: Pat. Act Shouldn't Bar Terrorist Sympathizer

[MDM4AU 336]

ACLU: Patriot Act Shouldn't Bar Terrorist Sympathizers

The ACLU apparently believes we don’t have enough spokesmen for radical Islam in the US.

A few facts on Mr. Ramadan

* He has praised the brutal Islamist policies of the Sudanese politician Hassan Al-Turabi. Mr. Turabi in turn called Mr. Ramadan the “future of Islam.”

* Mr. Ramadan was banned from entering France in 1996 on suspicion of having links with an Algerian Islamist who had recently initiated a terrorist campaign in Paris.

* Ahmed Brahim, an Algerian indicted for Al-Qaeda activities, had “routine contacts” with Mr. Ramadan, according to a Spanish judge (Baltasar Garzón) in 1999.

* Djamel Beghal, leader of a group accused of planning to attack the American embassy in Paris, stated in his 2001 trial that he had studied with Mr. Ramadan.

* Along with nearly all Islamists, Mr. Ramadan has denied that there is “any certain proof” that Bin Laden was behind 9/11.

* He publicly refers to the Islamist atrocities of 9/11, Bali, and Madrid as “interventions,” minimizing them to the point of near-endorsement.

* In his book, The Islam in Question, Ramadan clearly writes that he strongly favors the death of Israel, or rather of the "Zionist entity" -- the term used by Islamists who do not want utter the word Israel.

[Tigermike 3,050]

That does not surprise me in the least.

An organization located right here in Alabama, The Southern Poverty Law Center, has sued and won a judgment for several illegal immigrants. The illegals get the land and are allowed to stay in the country.

"Certainly it's poetic justice that these undocumented workers own this land," said Morris S. Dees Jr., co-founder and chief trial counsel of the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Ala., which represented the immigrants in their lawsuit.

http://www.discoverthenetwork.com/Articles/August%2019.htm

[TexasTiger 13,000]

ACLU: Patriot Act Shouldn't Bar Terrorist Sympathizers

The ACLU apparently believes we don’t have enough spokesmen for radical Islam in the US.

A few facts on Mr. Ramadan

* He has praised the brutal Islamist policies of the Sudanese politician Hassan Al-Turabi. Mr. Turabi in turn called Mr. Ramadan the “future of Islam.”

* Mr. Ramadan was banned from entering France in 1996 on suspicion of having links with an Algerian Islamist who had recently initiated a terrorist campaign in Paris.

* Ahmed Brahim, an Algerian indicted for Al-Qaeda activities, had “routine contacts” with Mr. Ramadan, according to a Spanish judge (Baltasar Garzón) in 1999.

* Djamel Beghal, leader of a group accused of planning to attack the American embassy in Paris, stated in his 2001 trial that he had studied with Mr. Ramadan.

* Along with nearly all Islamists, Mr. Ramadan has denied that there is “any certain proof” that Bin Laden was behind 9/11.

* He publicly refers to the Islamist atrocities of 9/11, Bali, and Madrid as “interventions,” minimizing them to the point of near-endorsement.

* In his book, The Islam in Question, Ramadan clearly writes that he strongly favors the death of Israel, or rather of the "Zionist entity" -- the term used by Islamists who do not want utter the word Israel.

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What are you afraid of? His views? Challenge them in the marketplace of ideas. Where you disagree, show him to be wrong.

From the article:

Ramadan was blocked from accepting a tenured teaching position at the University of Notre Dame when his visa was revoked in August 2004 because of a provision of the Patriot Act...

Think that bastion of Islamic fundamentalism, Notre Dame, is a front for terrorists?

The ACLU noted that Ramadan, a visiting fellow at St. Anthony's College at the University of Oxford, had accepted British Prime Minister Tony Blair's invitation to join a government task force to examine the roots of extremism in Britain.

Blair's Bush's best friend. A bit more on Ramadan:

Trying to Bridge A

Great Divide

By NICHOLAS LE QUESNE

Tariq Ramadan has the measured delivery of an academic, which is no more than you would expect from a man who used to be a high school principal and wrote his doctoral thesis on Nietzsche. But as the leading Islamic thinker among Europe's second- and third-generation Muslim immigrants, the Geneva-based university lecturer also inspires a good deal of mistrust—from both Arab Muslims for his Western sensibility and Westerners for his controversial Islamic roots. Ramadan, 38, is the grandson of Hassan al-Banna, founder, in 1928, of the Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamic revival movement that spread from Egypt throughout the Arab world, criticizing Western decadence and advocating a return to Muslim values. Yet Ramadan says, "I'm a European who has grown up here. I don't deny my Muslim roots, but I don't vilify Europe either."

Ramadan's chosen task is to invent an independent European Islam: "We need to separate Islamic principles from their cultures of origin and anchor them in the cultural reality of Western Europe." With 15 million Muslims on the Continent, Ramadan believes it's time to abandon the dichotomy in Muslim thought that has defined Islam in opposition to the West. "I can incorporate everything that's not opposed to my religion into my identity," he says, "and that's a revolution."

Europe's Muslims are the product of immigration in the postwar years, when workers were recruited from Turkey, North Africa and the Indian subcontinent to meet the war-shattered Continent's manpower needs. While the first generation jealously guarded their cultural links with their homeland, their children and grandchildren have often felt torn between two cultures. "What I'm saying is, be proud of who you are," says Ramadan. "We've got to get away from the idea that scholars in the Islamic world can do our thinking for us. We need to start thinking for ourselves."

That means making European mosques independent of foreign funding and influence. It also means rereading the founding texts and producing a body of Islamic thought in European languages. Ramadan's recent book, To Be a European Muslim, was written in English; editions in German, Italian and Dutch are all forthcoming. And Ramadan's message isn't intended for Muslims alone. "The real question is about spirituality," he says. "If the presence of Muslims leads Europeans to think about who they are and what they believe in, that has to be positive." Thanks partly to Ramadan, Islam is on its way to becoming an integral part of Europe's religious landscape.

http://www.time.com/time/innovators/spirit...le_ramadan.html

I'm not expert on the guy, and I'm not defending views I'm not really familiar with, but I think American Democracy can withstand a bit rhetoric. Censoring rhetoric is another matter.

[MDM4AU 336]

In my defense, I looked at approximately 7-8 articles on this guy. The original article I saw was from newsmax. Not wanting to go with that one I looked for more. Most seemed to say the same thing except for the Guardian which only bashed the administration. But that is nothing new for The Guardian. From what I saw, this guy appeared to be an extremist nut-job. That being said, I don't feel he needs to be allowed in. Period.

Thanks, though, for the extra material.

I'm not affraid of his "rhetoric" per se. But going on what I had read in the 20 minutes I spent looking into this this morning, I stand by my initial remarks.

The part of the Patriot Act that bans Terrorist Sypathizers should remain. There is no defense of such a thing. Doing so, we might as well let all of OBL's minions in too and challenge them in the marketplace...if we get a chance to.

You ask what I am afraid of...not his rhetoric but inviting more Extremists into our nation under the guise of "Education."

[TexasTiger 13,000]

In my defense, I looked at approximately 7-8 articles on this guy.  The original article I saw was from newsmax.  Not wanting to go with that one I looked for more.  Most seemed to say the same thing except for the Guardian which only bashed the administration.  But that is nothing new for The Guardian.  From what I saw, this guy appeared to be an extremist nut-job.  That being said, I don't feel he needs to be allowed in.  Period.

Thanks, though, for the extra material. 

I'm not affraid of his "rhetoric" per se.  But going on what I had read in the 20 minutes I spent looking into this this morning, I stand by my initial remarks.

The part of the Patriot Act that bans Terrorist Sypathizers should remain.  There is no defense of such a thing.  Doing so, we might as well let all of OBL's minions in too and challenge them in the marketplace...if we get a chance to. 

You ask what I am afraid of...not his rhetoric but inviting more Extremists into our nation under the guise of "Education."

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I don't know much about him. So what else did you find about this guy that led you to the conclusion he is an Extemist?

[MDM4AU 336]

I was "standing by my remarks" in light of what I knew at the time I posted. I am still processing the new information.

After reading what you had, maybe I don't feel quite as strong about him. I still don't know that he should be allowed, though.

The sum of all I read and not one thing in particular outside the "Zionist Entity" part formed my opinion. Too mant regular contacts with terrorist wackos, defending of OBL for 9/11, etc., just say this guy is not right. Based on that info I think the Feds are dead on in thier opinion.

[AURaptor 1,126]

The part of the Patriot Act that bans Terrorist Sypathizers should remain. There is no defense of such a thing. Doing so, we might as well let all of OBL's minions in too and challenge them in the marketplace...if we get a chance to

We saw how in the UK what happens when extremist spewing hate and who openly promote violence spawns a immigrant culture that has no regard for the home country's culture, or its people.

[TexasTiger 13,000]

The part of the Patriot Act that bans Terrorist Sypathizers should remain. There is no defense of such a thing. Doing so, we might as well let all of OBL's minions in too and challenge them in the marketplace...if we get a chance to

We saw how in the UK what happens when extremist spewing hate and who openly promote violence spawns a immigrant culture that has no regard for the home country's culture, or its people.

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But does that describe this guy?

Yet Ramadan says, "I'm a European who has grown up here. I don't deny my Muslim roots, but I don't vilify Europe either."

Ramadan's chosen task is to invent an independent European Islam: "We need to separate Islamic principles from their cultures of origin and anchor them in the cultural reality of Western Europe." With 15 million Muslims on the Continent, Ramadan believes it's time to abandon the dichotomy in Muslim thought that has defined Islam in opposition to the West. "