LSU spring game

[wesfau 0]

You contradict yourself. Miles is without question "middle of the road" against the big boys (as you put it). Citing his 22-4 record is a clever attempt at misdirection when we've already established that he's hit or miss wth the big boys, including some close scrape wins.

Let me try to clarify - for startes, wesfau coined the term "middle of the road against the big boys" to describe Miles, not me. In doing so, I understood him to basically be summarizing the point you were trying to make when you posted the stats about Miles's record.

In any case, the wording doesn't matter. My point is, you cited those stats as support that he's an average coach. That's misleading b/c an average record against Tuberville, Richt, Fulmer, and Nutt doesn't mean you're not a really good coach.

Which brings me back to 22-4. Citing that overall record is not "misdirection." Its a demonstration that you're cherry-picking stats to try and make a guy who has won EIGHTY-FIVE PERCENT of his games look average.

Or maybe we could dig deeper and see what patsies got lit up to hit that 85%.

[Gorilla 0]

With the talent LSU has had the last two years, expecting an SEC Title isnt that unreasonable.

You're really in sort of a catch-22 here. You can't argue with the record so you have to say that either (1) LSU is uber-talented and Miles is a joke, or (2) LSU isn't the Dallas Cowboys and Miles might actually be a decent coach.

Whatever. Its purely academic to an LSU fan. Whether its more talent/Les coach (pun intended) or less talent/more coach, the results are the same.

[Gorilla 0]

Or maybe we could dig deeper and see what patsies got lit up to hit that 85%.

Come on man. Everybody has patsies on the schedule. LSU no more than Auburn.

[wesfau 0]

Or maybe we could dig deeper and see what patsies got lit up to hit that 85%.

Come on man. Everybody has patsies on the schedule. LSU no more than Auburn.

That's true, which is why we were focusing on the games you have to win to get to the SECCG Lester is 55% in those, based on Galen's stats.

[SouthLink02 8]

You're really in sort of a catch-22 here. You can't argue with the record so you have to say that either (1) LSU is uber-talented and Miles is a joke, or (2) LSU isn't the Dallas Cowboys and Miles might actually be a decent coach.

I don't think selection #1 is that far off

[cadillacattack 0]

You contradict yourself. Miles is without question "middle of the road" against the big boys (as you put it).

In fairness, how did he contradict himself? He confirmed Miles had a middle-of-the-road record against the HC's listed, and then asked a legitimate question, "who else can you name who has a better record" against those same opponents? JMO, but the point he was making was a good one.

For example, by inverse, does it mean that Nutt and Tuberville are to viewed as equal because they both got waxed by Pete Carroll? I don't know anybody who would reasonably look at it that way if they are truly unbiased in their viewpoint. I don't believe Nutt is a better HC than Tuberville, yet some would try to use their head-to-head record as support for the contrary opinion.

Likewise, there are few people that honestly believe the talent levels among the teams mentioned by GG is really that much different. Believe the recruiting-guru hype if you want, but I'll take a coach that can develop talent over one that can only recruit it on any day of the week .... and any SEC Head Coach, regardless of talent level, that can assemble the win loss record achieved by Miles isn't faking it. It takes brass ones to succeed in the SEC, big brass ones.

Something else to consider . Even the best of teams have injuries that expose the quality-level of a team's depth. The 2003 AU team's offensive coordination problems are well known by those on this board but what many forget are the scads of injuries that impacted that team. Rest assured, Nallsminger took a lot of blame for problems rooted in other areas. Then the '04 team, with virtually the same personnel, remained healthy for nearly the entire season and achieved greatness. And I've heard tell that only the great Saban has the power to heal on the field.

With the talent LSU has had the last two years, expecting an SEC Title isnt that unreasonable.

That's a true statement, Southlink. It's also true that many LSU fans perceive it the same way. Likewise, it's true that many Auburn fans - including you - feel the very same way about our AU team.

[SouthLink02 8]

Likewise, it's true that many Auburn fans - including you - feel the very same way about our AU team.

But Tubs has an SEC Title

[WarTiger 3,923]

I'm very confused about why LSU gets pumped up for having so much "talent". Truth be told they have no more than Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, or Auburn. In fact, I'd go on record right now and say they actually have less than some of the above at most positions.

As far as Les Miles goes, he's 22-4, whoppie...he's done it with players that Saban recruited. When he gets his own players in the system is when he will crash and burn. I see this team going under fast, and I just don't believe he'll be the coach at LSU for the long term. I see him gone in 3-4 years.

[AUslug 1]

I think that Miles is a good head coach but nothing to go ape over. LSU is one of the big dogs in the SEC and the nation but they are not over flowing with talent, their talent is on par with the other top teams in the SEC. Right now I don't see where this "LSU's running game is going to great" stuff is coming from. The running game was less than average last year and Crowton ain't exactly a three yard and a cloud of dust kinda guy. I think Auburn as a shot at winning at Tiger Stadium, but I don't forsee a blow out in this game.

[AUdaREALsecTigers 2]

you might want to consider that you are on an AUBURN Tiger Board....you know the real Tigers of the SEC

That's what i'm talking about...

[Tigerbait2010 0]

Miles has already had players step in and do good ( Brandon. Lafell,Keieland Williams,Trindon Holliday). Every player Miles has recruited has stepped in and done as much as you can do for freshmen and sophmores. Particerly Keilend Williams (rushed for 100+ yards, 2tds in the sugar bowl). Saban won an SEC title solely off of Dinardo's players (Rohan Davey, Josh Reed, etc).

[SouthLink02 8]

Well, Miles has yet to win an SEC Title at all yet under a goldmine he inherited.

[OKieAuburnDoug 1]

how many water bottles did Leslie suck inside out??

[geauxscott 0]

this thread is funny.... basically because you are dogging a coach for having consecutive 11-2 seasons. You say he's doing it with Saban's talent, well thats fine with me....besides the NC season he's doing better with Saban's talent than Saban did. Don't sit here and tell me that if AU were in the same situation and you had a coach come in and put up consectutive 11-2 seasons and opposing teams bashed your coach you wouldn't sit back and laugh your a$$ off. Its really, really, really funny. I do think some of you AU fans do get it though (ex: caddilacattack)....its really stupid to fault a coach for losing a couple of games a season in the SEC. Speaking of "contridicting".....we are not in the PAC-10, we tout ourselves as being the toughest conference in the nation, yet a team with great talent and a good coach loses a couple of games and you say he's a bad coach??? NO my friend, thats called the SEC, which is very very very hard to run the table regardless of talent or coaching......thats just how it is.

Also, since it hasn't been brought up.....I do think Tubby is a great coach, I CAN ADMIT THAT......whats his record vs these "BIG DOGS" you rank Miles against? just off the top of my head I think it may be around 60% which is a little better than Miles... I could look it up but don't feel like it, but i do know its 1-1 vs a "supposed" bad coach....guess with ya'lls logic that puts him "on par" with Miles? I really just dont get it!

[SEC FAN 0]

So, my point is, nobody can reasonably expect better than 22-4.

With the talent LSU has had the last two years, expecting an SEC Title isnt that unreasonable.

Which year should they have won the SEC title? The year of Katrina or the year they played FL, AU, TN and AR on the road?

[TigerHead 0]

It is really funny to read some of the "logic" that you Auburn people come up with.

First last years game was a joke and you guys know it.LSU got screwed by the horrendous officiating.I do not want to rehash the entire game but the pass to Early Doucet inside AU's 5 yrd. line was one of the worst non-calls I have ever seen in my 58 years. We should have been 1st and goal inside the 5.If you watch the still photos frame by frame it clearly shows Doucet getting tackled before the ball was touched.I dare one of you to show that on this site! The only good thing was the physical beating we gave Auburn. Ole Tubby even said that it took AU a long time to recover from LSU's beat down. It had an negative effect for the rest of the season. I cannot wait for this years game in Tiger Stadium.We will finish the ass whipping we started last year. This season we might get unbiased officiating.The refs won't be there to bail you out this time.

[SEC FAN 0]

this thread is funny.... basically because you are dogging a coach for having consecutive 11-2 seasons. You say he's doing it with Saban's talent, well thats fine with me....besides the NC season he's doing better with Saban's talent than Saban did. Don't sit here and tell me that if AU were in the same situation and you had a coach come in and put up consectutive 11-2 seasons and opposing teams bashed your coach you wouldn't sit back and laugh your a$$ off. Its really, really, really funny. I do think some of you AU fans do get it though (ex: caddilacattack)....its really stupid to fault a coach for losing a couple of games a season in the SEC. Speaking of "contridicting".....we are not in the PAC-10, we tout ourselves as being the toughest conference in the nation, yet a team with great talent and a good coach loses a couple of games and you say he's a bad coach??? NO my friend, thats called the SEC, which is very very very hard to run the table regardless of talent or coaching......thats just how it is.

Also, since it hasn't been brought up.....I do think Tubby is a great coach, I CAN ADMIT THAT......whats his record vs these "BIG DOGS" you rank Miles against? just off the top of my head I think it may be around 60% which is a little better than Miles... I could look it up but don't feel like it, but i do know its 1-1 vs a "supposed" bad coach....guess with ya'lls logic that puts him "on par" with Miles? I really just dont get it!

Reading through this thread I have not seen a logical or valid explanation that would support the theory that LSU football under LM is on the decline. I've read that he has won with Saban's talent yet LM is recruiting just as well, if not better, than Saban did. I keep hearing he's winning on talent alone. Well, if that's the case, is that really so bad when you consider LSU continues to reload with talent? Where's the evidence of a decline? Last year LSU played FL, AU, TN and AR on the road. The prior year all the tough games were at home yet last year was more successful. Where's the declining trend? Where's the evidence of an imminent decline? Maybe it's just wishful thinking by opposing fans? Lets see some real substance and evidence in post explaining why LSU football is on the decline so we can have a rational debate.

[TigerFan1996 0]

Reading through this thread I have not seen a logical or valid explanation that would support the theory that LSU football under LM is on the decline. I've read that he has won with Saban's talent yet LM is recruiting just as well, if not better, than Saban did. I keep hearing he's winning on talent alone. Well, if that's the case, is that really so bad when you consider LSU continues to reload with talent? Where's the evidence of a decline? Last year LSU played FL, AU, TN and AR on the road. The prior year all the tough games were at home yet last year was more successful. Where's the declining trend? Where's the evidence of an imminent decline? Maybe it's just wishful thinking by opposing fans? Lets see some real substance and evidence in post explaining why LSU football is on the decline so we can have a rational debate.

The only valid comparison of Miles I can think of is to compare his loss record against similar SEC coaches over the last two years.

In the last two years Miles has lost to:

Tenn (at home)

Georgia (sec champ game)

At Auburn

At Florida

Tubby:

Ga Tech (at home)

At LSU

Wisconsin (bowl)

Arkansas (at home)

Georgia (at home)

Meyer:

At LSU

At ALa

At SC

At Auburn

Richt:

Florida (neutral)

Auburn (athens)

West VA (bowl)

Tenn (at home)

Vandy (at home)

Fla (neutral)

At KY

I think this speaks for itself with only Meyers being more impressive. Additionally, Miles hasn't lost to a single team that isn't a year in and year out power in the SEC and three of them were on the road.

Most of you then say that Miles has enjoyed a plethora of talent left behind by Saban, well this may or may not be the case. It seems to me that the only valid critic of Les Miles is that there simply isn't enough data. It is true that Miles doesn't have an SEC championship, but did Tubby in his first two years? And how many does Tubby have in his tenure at AU?

[cadillacattack 0]

I dare one of you to show that on this site! The only good thing was the physical beating we gave Auburn.

No offense, but whining about officiating isn't going to get you far since that sword cuts both ways. A missed call is a missed call - regardless of the degree of the miss.

And to be fair, the Auburn squad gave LSU the same physical beating they in turn received. In hindsight, one could say that we each ruined the other's run at a championship.

[wesfau 0]

It is true that Miles doesn't have an SEC championship, but did Tubby in his first two years? And how many does Tubby have in his tenure at AU?

You need to review the Auburn team that Tubs inherited in '99. It was awful and there is NO comparison to be made between Miles' inherited talent and Tubs'.

[SouthLink02 8]

The only valid comparison of Miles I can think of is to compare his loss record against similar SEC coaches over the last two years.

SEC Titles the last 3 years

Richt

Tubs

Meyer

No Miles

Hence our point.

Miles is a good coach but he isn't a great one yet.

[Gorilla 0]

SEC Titles the last 3 years

Richt

Tubs

Meyer

No Miles

Hence our point.

Miles is a good coach but he isn't a great one yet.

First of all, Miles hasn't been coaching in the SEC for 3 years, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make talking about the last 3 seasons. More importantly, you really need to let go of the SEC title thing. You're like a broken record in this thread.

Is an SEC title a good thing? Sure. Does every team in the league set that as a goal every year? Of course. I'll even grant you that, if Miles doesn't eventually win one (after he's been here a while) it's as good a reason as any to call him out. But you sound ridiculous judging a coach with all of 2 seasons under his belt by that single criteria.

No, Miles has not won an SEC championship in either of the last two years. He has, however, won a Sugar Bowl during that span - which is more than I can say for your boy Richt.

In the last two years, Mark Richt - almighty winner of an SEC Championship - has gone 19-7. He's won an SEC Championship Game and a Peach Bowl and lost a Sugar Bowl. Miles has gone 22-4 over the same stretch. He's lost an SEC Championship game, won a Peach Bowl of his own and a Sugar Bowl. I'll take the 3 extra wins and BCS bowl victory - plus the really sharp hat - every time.

[TigerFan1996 0]

I think you make a good point about the SEC titles, and if Miles hasn't gotten one after 4 years of coaching I'll be less than enamored. However it would be somewhat bammerish to demand one in his first two years.

I wasn't trying to imply that Tubberville's '99 situation was similiar talentwise to Miles' I was just pointing out that in nine years Tubbs has one SEC title. Does this make him a poor coach? I certainly don't think so. There is a huge luck component that goes into winning SEC and BCS championships in this day and age of parity in the SEC.

In short I think that, while I've been pleased so far with Miles, the jury is still out. Its too early to proclaim him a master coach, and it is also too early to claim that he is subpar.

[WarTiger 3,923]

It is really funny to read some of the "logic" that you Auburn people come up with.

First last years game was a joke and you guys know it.LSU got screwed by the horrendous officiating.I do not want to rehash the entire game but the pass to Early Doucet inside AU's 5 yrd. line was one of the worst non-calls I have ever seen in my 58 years. We should have been 1st and goal inside the 5.If you watch the still photos frame by frame it clearly shows Doucet getting tackled before the ball was touched.I dare one of you to show that on this site! The only good thing was the physical beating we gave Auburn. Ole Tubby even said that it took AU a long time to recover from LSU's beat down. It had an negative effect for the rest of the season. I cannot wait for this years game in Tiger Stadium.We will finish the ass whipping we started last year. This season we might get unbiased officiating.The refs won't be there to bail you out this time.

The officials are SEC officials, moron. Don't come here and make it sound like we brought in our own officials so we could screw you. That's very ignorant on your part and it really exposes your total lack of any knowledge of the game at all. Dealing in absolutes about "finishing the ass whipping" is also pretty stupid. If you actually had football knowledge you'd know there is no sure thing. Chances are, if we beat you guys AGAIN, you will be nowhere close to this forum, unless you come here to whine about the officiating again. Grow up and take a loss like an adult, and quit using excuses for your teams inability to score a touchdown. That last drive wasn't their only chance to score a TD. The last time I checked the game is 4 quarters long, not one play... Its been 6 months, its time to move on or seek counseling, or just grow up.

[SouthLink02 8]

More importantly, you really need to let go of the SEC title thing. You're like a broken record in this thread.

Of course you want me to let go of it. Miles has yet to ever win a single SEC Title yet we are expected to proclaim him a great coach. Coaches are defined by Titles...people want Mack Brown GONE when he couldn't win the BigXII....unless Miles stops choking....he will be gone as well

No, Miles has not won an SEC championship in either of the last two years. He has, however, won a Sugar Bowl during that span - which is more than I can say for your boy Richt.

Richt has won a Sugar Bowl as well...in fact, he has been to 2...how many has Miles been to?

Hell, Richt has won 2 SEC Titles and been to a 3rd...how many has Miles won or been to?

Hell, who won the H-2-H matchup?

Do you really want to compare the two when Richt has owned Miles already?

In the last two years, Mark Richt - almighty winner of an SEC Championship - has gone 19-7.

Awww.....what's wrong? Still mad over the ass-whipping we gave you in the SEC Title game?