Just thought we had problems...

[AuburnChopper1 0]

I think your breakdown is interesting. Only time will tell, but I think it could be argued that hurt players and tired players don't improve, so depth is a major problem right now. Because of the depth and conditioning issues, I think it could be argued that Bama has backed up since game one, not the desired opposite. I also think that with the talent you've accumulated over the past few years, that the execution issues are a tough thing to take if you're a bama fan. Adjustments by coaches and players should have netted you some better offensive numbers against a team like Houston, but it didn't.

Do you think that IFFFFF Saban only accomplishes 9 or 10 win seasons starting next year, and wins no SECCG in 3 years, that he'll be around? What is your actual expectation. I understand improvement over time, but how long does that mean? Is it unlimited? Do you think Saban would take the abuse he'd receive if it lasted "too long" by bama alumnus standards?

[BamaGrad03 0]

I think Saban isn't looking to go anywhere else.

To add to my prior point as well...I think a big problem we suffer from is a lack of a winner's mentality. These guys don't know how to win. They don't know what it means to lean on someone when you're up...as if the score was 0-0.

I think we still have a mental hangover from the Shula era. And it may take losing one of those big leads...and actually losing the game...before they wake up.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

bg, one thing jumps out at me this year, you haven't consistently improved. the defense is getting worse. that shocks me, but i've seen you play. i think it's true. at the start of the year, you held down vandy and did some good things. then arkansas pushed you for four quarters, georgia basically got it running and passing, fsu exposed poor tackling, and now the guys just totally crashed in the 4th against an overwhelmed but tough houston team.

what do you think of that? do you disagree? is the defense actually getting better or are they really wearing down during the 6th game of the season? it looks to me like the offense is either hitting or stuck in the mud, which is pretty much what you get with a pass-driven offense, but the defense's either lack of progression or potentially regression has shocked me.

as for the tubby stuff, you're short-changing the job he did in 99. we lost two games (ole miss and msu) late in the fourth, and we would've won both if ben leard had played (separated his shoulder in the start of the second half against ole miss). that crappy team would've been bowl bound under tubbs' guidance. we may not show from time to time, but there just aren't flaws in this staff. in all seriousness, usc (either one) might be the only team(s) in the nation i'd trade staffs with (big time no trade with big time programs like florida, oklahoma, or texas).

[AuburnChopper1 0]

I think Saban isn't looking to go anywhere else.

To add to my prior point as well...I think a big problem we suffer from is a lack of a winner's mentality. These guys don't know how to win. They don't know what it means to lean on someone when you're up...as if the score was 0-0.

I think we still have a mental hangover from the Shula era. And it may take losing one of those big leads...and actually losing the game...before they wake up.

So what is it? Winner's mentality? Lack of depth? Mental hang-over? Bad coaching decisions? Do you see a pattern here?

I don't think Saban is looking anywhere else either, right now. However, another few years of mediocre, or debatable improvement, and he might just get tired of the, sure to come, grind of the bama alumni and media. He'll get this year as a pass all around, but starting next year, depth and coaching issues are going to be less and less of an acceptable response.

It's going to be interesting.

[bojack34 2]

He has 3 Conference championships. He won 9 games at toledo and won the MAC. In his first year.

And if you want to include ENTIRE coaching careers, let's look at CTT's 4 years at Ole Miss: 26-21 lost 4 games EVERY year. Lost 5 games 3 of 4 seasons. Has ONE conference championship in 13 years as a head coach. Zero national championships.

According to the Bammers way of claiming NC's, CTT has 1 as well. I dare you to argue that.

[runswithscissors 33]

as for the tubby stuff, you're short-changing the job he did in 99. we lost two games (ole miss and msu) late in the fourth, and we would've won both if ben leard had played (separated his shoulder in the start of the second half against ole miss). that crappy team would've been bowl bound under tubbs' guidance. we may not show from time to time, but there just aren't flaws in this staff. in all seriousness, usc (either one) might be the only team(s) in the nation i'd trade staffs with (big time no trade with big time programs like florida, oklahoma, or texas).

well, we lost in OT to UGA and we lost to FSU late in the fourth. arguing with that, you could say "well we would have been 6-0 right now IF....." but there is no IF. there is either a win or a loss. we lost those games, and so did the AU team you speak of. every coaching staff has flaws. you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. i can understand that you wouldn't want to trade staffs with anyone, i don't really blame you. but you shouldn't confuse that with "there just aren't flaws in this staff".

[BamaGrad03 0]

bg, one thing jumps out at me this year, you haven't consistently improved. the defense is getting worse. that shocks me, but i've seen you play. i think it's true. at the start of the year, you held down vandy and did some good things. then arkansas pushed you for four quarters, georgia basically got it running and passing, fsu exposed poor tackling, and now the guys just totally crashed in the 4th against an overwhelmed but tough houston team.

I think our defense is playing far above what I expected. I think they have gotten better as the season has gone on, but the offense has put them in binds that were too much for our shallow depth to overcome.

The Houston game is a perfect example of that.

I thought we were in the UGA and FSU games BECAUSE of our D, not in spite of it.

[AUbirdie 0]

Keep talking BG. you have about a month and a half left til' we remind you who owns this state.

[DKW 86 7,441]

Seems I had some bama fan telling me for several years that "Shula is recruiting lights out." HHMMM, who could that have been....

[AUartlady 19]

And Bama's four wins are; WESTERN CAROLINA, VANDY, ARKANSAS, AND HOUSTON. WOW, TALK ABOUT TOUGH.

Kansas SOS - 100

Alabama SOS - 25

Seriously though, nice try.

Florida SOS - 30

Houston SOS - 50

Miss. State SOS - 14

Vandy SOS - 51

Alabamas is 43 not 25 according to http://teamrankings.com/ncf/27powerratings.php3

[townhallsavoy 2]

And Bama's four wins are; WESTERN CAROLINA, VANDY, ARKANSAS, AND HOUSTON. WOW, TALK ABOUT TOUGH.

Kansas SOS - 100

Alabama SOS - 25

Seriously though, nice try.

Florida SOS - 30

Houston SOS - 50

Miss. State SOS - 14

Vandy SOS - 51

Alabamas is 43 not 25 according to http://teamrankings.com/ncf/27powerratings.php3

Wow...served.

[AuburnChopper1 0]

And Bama's four wins are; WESTERN CAROLINA, VANDY, ARKANSAS, AND HOUSTON. WOW, TALK ABOUT TOUGH.

Kansas SOS - 100

Alabama SOS - 25

Seriously though, nice try.

Florida SOS - 30

Houston SOS - 50

Miss. State SOS - 14

Vandy SOS - 51

Alabamas is 43 not 25 according to http://teamrankings.com/ncf/27powerratings.php3

Actually it gets worse when you look at the real site... Updated after this last weekend's games.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt07.htm

Bama SOS - 72

(Auburn SOS - 19)

Florida SOS - 8

Vandy SOS - 81

Houston SOS - 36

Miss State SOS - 50

Ouch....

[jumbo 0]

Has a Saban team ever went undefeated? Does Saban have a winning record against Tubbs???? Please Bammer fan answer that question for me.....

[BamaGrad03 0]

Florida SOS - 30

Houston SOS - 50

Miss. State SOS - 14

Vandy SOS - 51

Alabamas is 43 not 25 according to http://teamrankings.com/ncf/27powerratings.php3

From the NCAA's website (sorted on past opposition meaning teams that we have played...which was exactly to my point about Kansas)

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/2007/Internet/t...9games_past.pdf

Alabama 25th

Kansas 90th.

[AuburnChopper1 0]

Florida SOS - 30

Houston SOS - 50

Miss. State SOS - 14

Vandy SOS - 51

Alabamas is 43 not 25 according to http://teamrankings.com/ncf/27powerratings.php3

From the NCAA's website (sorted on past opposition meaning teams that we have played...which was exactly to my point about Kansas)

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/2007/Internet/t...9games_past.pdf

Alabama 25th

Kansas 90th.

Kansas isn't 100 like you said earlier. Actually, this schedule will change week to week. Your rank is benefiting by 1A teams that have played cream puffs early in their season. (that's evidenced by THEIR poor rankings....from the link you provided)

As your past opponents start to get into the "bulk" of their schedules, their loss columns are going to be added too, and your rank will more than likely drop. They could balance out and your rank might be stable, but I wouldn't take that rank to mean much halfway through the schedule.

However, the rank you provided only takes into account your 1A schedule, which really isn't a true "full" ranking of your past schedule.

If you include Division 1AA, your rank drops to 65. This is a more true rank considering you played Western Carolina your first game.

Again, not being a homer, but Auburn sits at #7. Not bad, huh?

[BamaGrad03 0]

As your past opponents start to get into the "bulk" of their schedules, their loss columns are going to be added too

Exactly. Which was my point about Kansas. It's only on past opponents, and their rank is low because they have played/beaten a bunch of nobodies before the K State game.

Someone tried to suggest earlier that WCU, Houston, Vandy, Arkansas, UGA, FSU was the same as Kansas schedule in terms of SOS.

[FootballFanatic 4]

You can't honestly be implying that Kansas state, South Florida, Mississippi State is a weaker open 3 games than Western Carolina, Vanderbilt, arkansas?

Id say we both had it rough but you have Western Carolina as your opener and auburn played a team that had one loss until they faced their instate rival who is now 6-0.

What are you even arguing. That we struggled early in the season with a turnover Margin of -12? That the team took some time to get their talent together and play like winners a few times? That we were one play away from winning both games we dumped even though we gave up 5 turnovers in each game?

We know how we played and we put it on the line with a real opening game in the face of a seriously stupid road schedule against two national championship contenders. 1 down 1 to go.

Bama struggled against Vandy, arkansas, georgia, and houston. Vandy got stomped by us, georgia got stomped by tennessee, arkansas got stomped by Kentucky, houston should have been an easier game.

Reality is you guys have the opportunity to get better as you face a 2 game stretch against teams you should beat, but Ole Miss isn't a team to take lightly and you will have to bust your but to not lose that game.

Auburn has a bright future with the team I am seeing come together. The only question is wether Burns can be the passer he needs to be 1-2 times per down we need that.

[AuburnChopper1 0]

As your past opponents start to get into the "bulk" of their schedules, their loss columns are going to be added too

Exactly. Which was my point about Kansas. It's only on past opponents, and their rank is low because they have played/beaten a bunch of nobodies before the K State game.

Someone tried to suggest earlier that WCU, Houston, Vandy, Arkansas, UGA, FSU was the same as Kansas schedule in terms of SOS.

FSU - 77

UGA - 37

ARK - 48

VAN - 79

HOU - 107

These ranks are taken from the same rank column you referenced, that's why I didn't include Western Carolina. If you look at 1AA it looks like this (Kansas 174)

**Full schedules (1AA included) http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/2007/Internet/t...9games_past.pdf

(Alabama Rank - 65)

FSU - 89 (yes, tied with VAN & WESCAR)

UGA - 82

ARK - 86

VAN - 89 (yes, tied with FSU & WESCAR)

HOU - 174 (yes, tied with Kansas)

WESCAR - 89 (yes, tied with FSU & VAN)

Let's face it BG, Alabama's schedule is nothing to brag about, even if someone based their argument on Kansas. It's like being down by 200 pts, and arguing with the guy you're 2 points ahead of in 113th place.

Let's see where everything falls at the end of the year, because this debate clearly isn't going your way today.

[BamaGrad03 0]

You can't honestly be implying that Kansas state, South Florida, Mississippi State is a weaker open 3 games than Western Carolina, Vanderbilt, arkansas?

Id say we both had it rough but you have Western Carolina as your opener and auburn played a team that had one loss until they faced their instate rival who is now 6-0.

What are you even arguing. That we struggled early in the season with a turnover Margin of -12? That the team took some time to get their talent together and play like winners a few times? That we were one play away from winning both games we dumped even though we gave up 5 turnovers in each game?

We know how we played and we put it on the line with a real opening game in the face of a seriously stupid road schedule against two national championship contenders. 1 down 1 to go.

Bama struggled against Vandy, arkansas, georgia, and houston. Vandy got stomped by us, georgia got stomped by tennessee, arkansas got stomped by Kentucky, houston should have been an easier game.

Reality is you guys have the opportunity to get better as you face a 2 game stretch against teams you should beat, but Ole Miss isn't a team to take lightly and you will have to bust your but to not lose that game.

Auburn has a bright future with the team I am seeing come together. The only question is wether Burns can be the passer he needs to be 1-2 times per down we need that.

I think you missed where the argument was coming from. Someone was bragging that Kansas was a very good team, and I argued that they had beaten no one before the beat Kansas St (Central Michigan, SE Louisiana, Toledo,FIU). And someone countered with the assertion that our schedule hasn't been any tougher.

It had nothing to do with Auburn.

[FootballFanatic 4]

KSU is a very good team. I watched them live on a field play football. They need some work but its a very good football team. Id hang my hat on beating them any day of the week.

Are they a USC or Oklahoma quality win? Nope, but are they a quality team that will win more than they lose this year in their conference? Yes.

Your argument is pointless. KSU is a good team. Florida was a better team.

[AUChizad 0]

I don't think Saban is looking anywhere else either, right now. However, another few years of mediocre, or debatable improvement, and he might just get tired of the, sure to come, grind of the bama alumni and media. He'll get this year as a pass all around, but starting next year, depth and coaching issues are going to be less and less of an acceptable response.

You've got your head in the sand if you think he's even 51% likely to stay at bama for more than 3 years.

Did you hear the press conference yesterday? He's starting to crack halfway through this first season. Earlier than even I projected.

I wish I had a link to the audio, or even a transcript but when he was asked how his confidence in JPW was, his raspy irritated-toned response was (paraphrasing for lack of link) "It's good. I know you guys want to boost his expectations through the roof and set him up for failure when he doesn't live up to it. Same goes for me. That's no secret. You can't wait for me to lose one more game so you can tear me apart. I know that."

By the way, what through-the-roof expectations is he talking about? What Sports Writer is touting JPW for Heisman?

[TecmoBoJackson 65]

I am not going to sit here and bash Saban, I actually think that he is a good coach and recruiter as well. Anyone who can win games, championships, etc. in the SEC has to be considered good somewhere along the way. I am going to say that the reason I like CTT better (other than the fact I am an AU fan) is his length of stay.

It just seems to me that everytime Saban gets the notion he will leave a program to see what else is out there. And when you combine that with a team (UAT) that has been known to fire coaches without warning, doesn't really seem like a good fit to me. I mean you can throw numbers around all you want to for both coaches, but I like the fact that most of CTT's numbers come from one program in comparison to Saban.

Finally, I don't understand how the hype around the hiring of Saban got so out of control. I mean he is a good coach, but to say that he is the savior of the program before watching him coach one single game. I just hope he doesn't leave UAT holding the bag if things don't go his way or if a better offer comes along.

Side note: It is not our fault that we didn't get a shot at a National Championship, we covered all the requirements on our end in 2004, or so we thought.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

scissors, i reiterate: i don't think there are flaws in the coaching staff. that doesn't mean you won't lose games. no one is perfect, but i don't see the shortcomings on this staff. great head coach with a gameplan for the long-term, well-above average recruiters, great defensive coordinator, great offensive coordinator, staff continuity (5 coaches have been here since the start of it all in auburn, 4 came from ole miss), proper emphasis on classroom work, winning in a big way... there's just not a thing to dislike. i say again: that doesn't mean you will win every game. but there is nothing to dislike on this staff.

bg, i'm 100% behind you on the kansas thing. they've played one solid game. one. they still have games at colorado and a&m, home dates with nebraska and mizzou. granted 2 of those teams are crap, but i'd be shockd if the jayhawks win half of them. their schedule is a joke start to finish. if auburn played that schedule, we'd be favored in every single game, and only the trip to kstate and finale against mizzou would even cause you to bat an eye. bama plays that schedule, they're 9-3 at worst. it's a joke.

regarless of what the SOS thing says, arkansas, uga, and fsu are all as good or better than anyone kansas has played.

as for the defense, i really think the first half against fsu was more about their futility than your dominance. second half rolled around, they make a switch, and it's off to the races. you got gashed by arkansas in a bad way, and uga just moved the ball at will for most of that game. i'm completely unimpressed with the defense (never an excuse for giving up 14... possibly 21 to houston in the fourth. never.)