Bush sacrifices for war effort

[AFTiger 282]

I think the Bush haters have completely lost their tiny minds!

[CCTAU 3,350]

My friends call me BIG arnie

Maybe the ones you pay!

[Tiger Al 0]

And TA, I was a little smarter than you, when they said they cut the board for entry into the USAF which I had already applied, I wasn't dumb enough to enlist after having a degree. I applied, they didn't need anyone at the time. Some of us move on with our lives and don't let the decision haunt us forever. To bad it does you.

Since you had that degree already, I wonder why you were talking enlistment instead of commission? Maybe you're not so smart, after all. Maybe it's typical CCTAU/Dirty Harry puffery.

My decision hasn't haunted me forever. In fact, I just re-enlisted this past year. My hope is that I can have a commander-in-chief that I can be proud to serve under again.

No I was stating that I waited until I had a degree in order to think about it. I didn't enlist to get a degree and then bitch and moan about it the rest of my career. I too wish that you could go back to the 80's of doing nothing for your weekend pay and two weeks a year, but it's a new day. Many are having to live up to their agreements. Many are doing so without the wailing and moaning that you always seem to produce. Just maybe when achmed is elected, you can go back to your old blissful life. But until then, you can continue to operate as a cancer within. That is your right afforded you by the freedoms expressed in our constitution. So carry on the good fight.

I was active duty in the 80's so I don't know about the "blissful life." I'm not sure what point you're addressing, but, it's not any that I've raised. I guess if you argue with yourself then then you might stand a chance at winning.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

I think the Bush haters have completely lost their tiny minds!

Has it occurred to you before regurgitating the tired "Bush haters" line that some people don't hate him, but still think he says and does some monumentally dumb things? I hate to throw you a curveball like that...talking about other positions that fall between one extreme or the other. But the country isn't made up of those who support Bush in virtually all matters and those who hate his guts.

Shocking, I know. Sit down if you need to.

[CCTAU 3,350]

And TA, I was a little smarter than you, when they said they cut the board for entry into the USAF which I had already applied, I wasn't dumb enough to enlist after having a degree. I applied, they didn't need anyone at the time. Some of us move on with our lives and don't let the decision haunt us forever. To bad it does you.

Since you had that degree already, I wonder why you were talking enlistment instead of commission? Maybe you're not so smart, after all. Maybe it's typical CCTAU/Dirty Harry puffery.

My decision hasn't haunted me forever. In fact, I just re-enlisted this past year. My hope is that I can have a commander-in-chief that I can be proud to serve under again.

No I was stating that I waited until I had a degree in order to think about it. I didn't enlist to get a degree and then bitch and moan about it the rest of my career. I too wish that you could go back to the 80's of doing nothing for your weekend pay and two weeks a year, but it's a new day. Many are having to live up to their agreements. Many are doing so without the wailing and moaning that you always seem to produce. Just maybe when achmed is elected, you can go back to your old blissful life. But until then, you can continue to operate as a cancer within. That is your right afforded you by the freedoms expressed in our constitution. So carry on the good fight.

I was active duty in the 80's so I don't know about the "blissful life." I'm not sure what point you're addressing, but, it's not any that I've raised. I guess if you argue with yourself then then you might stand a chance at winning.

OK. My bad. Carry on. You seem to be having such a wonderful life. Sorry the conservatives in this country have upset you so. The only point I am addressing is your martyrdom of still serving and always moaning about it and then trying to condemn others for not joining your misery. But if you are happy, ither than Bush, then by all means accept my apology. As if it's sincere.

[OldNewby 27]

I voted for George W. Bush in 2000 and again in 2004. I admit I have been very disappointed in him, especially this term. Many people have hated his guts since he stole the election from Al Gore, and still do.

[otterinbham 0]

I think the Bush haters have completely lost their tiny minds!

Well, as somebody who votes Republican and is a fiscal conservative, I think you've lost your mind to actually still support the man. I mean, yeah, we shot our way into Afghanistan and rid it of the Taliban. We can debate Iraq for the next 100 years, and still not have a consensus. But that doesn't ameliorate the dozens upon dozens of boneheaded political moves and decisions he's made in office. This is a man who's jacked up spending and sent the deficit skyrocketing when we could have had balanced budgets even with the Iraq war. This is a man that added a completely new entitlement program to the mix, ensuring that our children will have a huge tax burden in the future. This is a man who never wielded a VETO stamp when faced with runaway pork barrel spending. This is a man who made common cause with the Democrats, advocating open immigration until the American public practically revolted. This is a man whose policies paved the way for the total electoral rout at the end of 2006 and a coming Republican collapse in the general election on par with 1932. Why on earth do you continue to polish his knob? I really need to understand.

[Tiger Al 0]

OK. My bad. Carry on. You seem to be having such a wonderful life. Sorry the conservatives in this country have upset you so. The only point I am addressing is your martyrdom of still serving and always moaning about it and then trying to condemn others for not joining your misery. But if you are happy, ither than Bush, then by all means accept my apology. As if it's sincere.

I don't see it as martyrdom and I don't moan about it. You need to break yourself of the habit of trying to fit those who disagree with you and George and the two or three hundred of you left into some convenient little "they hate America" box. You also need to break yourself of the habit of accusing me of doing nothing to protect this country when you yourself have done nothing toward that end. I told you a long time ago that you don't get to talk to me that way and I'm happy to point that out to you until you understand.

[CCTAU 3,350]

OK. My bad. Carry on. You seem to be having such a wonderful life. Sorry the conservatives in this country have upset you so. The only point I am addressing is your martyrdom of still serving and always moaning about it and then trying to condemn others for not joining your misery. But if you are happy, ither than Bush, then by all means accept my apology. As if it's sincere.

I don't see it as martyrdom and I don't moan about it. You need to break yourself of the habit of trying to fit those who disagree with you and George and the two or three hundred of you left into some convenient little "they hate America" box. You also need to break yourself of the habit of accusing me of doing nothing to protect this country when you yourself have done nothing toward that end. I told you a long time ago that you don't get to talk to me that way and I'm happy to point that out to you until you understand.

I GET to do whatever I want in the context that I can hold my own with you and many others. My opinion, however dismissed, is something I can and will give when I feel like it. Live with it...or don't. It's not like I give a s*** about your personal feelings. I just don't want to hear you bitch and moan.

So from your past posts over the years, you bitch and moan about your "service" more than anyone I know, except for that guy in HI who refused to serve. There are many of us on here who have heard it. We are happy to have you serve, but damn, shut up about it.

You act as if it were a different president, life would be easier for you. What did you sign up for? My son signed up knowing there is a war. He is on his 2nd tour. He doesn't bitch about the president. He bitches about the sonabitches that are trying to kill him and his friends. They are called terrorists. Have you heard of them? They want us DEAD. Have you heard that too? This president, who makes your life rough, HAS heard of them and wants them dead before they kill us. My son and his fellow soldiers know about it. They have no doubt the terrorists would be here if we weren't there. And they have seen what they can do. I trust the president and boots on the ground more than somebody who is just "hanging" in there hoping for a new softer president. If you support achmed, you support appeasement. And I find that sickening form a member of our armed forces. Therefore, every time you bitch and moan, I , and others, wonder why in the hell did you stay on?

[Tiger Al 0]

OK. My bad. Carry on. You seem to be having such a wonderful life. Sorry the conservatives in this country have upset you so. The only point I am addressing is your martyrdom of still serving and always moaning about it and then trying to condemn others for not joining your misery. But if you are happy, ither than Bush, then by all means accept my apology. As if it's sincere.

I don't see it as martyrdom and I don't moan about it. You need to break yourself of the habit of trying to fit those who disagree with you and George and the two or three hundred of you left into some convenient little "they hate America" box. You also need to break yourself of the habit of accusing me of doing nothing to protect this country when you yourself have done nothing toward that end. I told you a long time ago that you don't get to talk to me that way and I'm happy to point that out to you until you understand.

I GET to do whatever I want in the context that I can hold my own with you and many others. My opinion, however dismissed, is something I can and will give when I feel like it. Live with it...or don't. It's not like I give a s*** about your personal feelings. I just don't want to hear you bitch and moan.

So from your past posts over the years, you bitch and moan about your "service" more than anyone I know, except for that guy in HI who refused to serve. There are many of us on here who have heard it. We are happy to have you serve, but damn, shut up about it.

You act as if it were a different president, life would be easier for you. What did you sign up for? My son signed up knowing there is a war. He is on his 2nd tour. He doesn't bitch about the president. He bitches about the sonabitches that are trying to kill him and his friends. They are called terrorists. Have you heard of them? They want us DEAD. Have you heard that too? This president, who makes your life rough, HAS heard of them and wants them dead before they kill us. My son and his fellow soldiers know about it. They have no doubt the terrorists would be here if we weren't there. And they have seen what they can do. I trust the president and boots on the ground more than somebody who is just "hanging" in there hoping for a new softer president. If you support achmed, you support appeasement. And I find that sickening form a member of our armed forces. Therefore, every time you bitch and moan, I , and others, wonder why in the hell did you stay on?

If you've heard me bring it up 500 times then that's 500 times you've let your mouth drive your brain off a cliff just like in this thread. If you want to stop hearing it, then you need to learn to watch what you say.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

I do take issue with insinuating that people who have served our country for over 20 years as acting like martyrs or whining or whatever. I disagree with Al on a ton of issues and we almost never vote the same way from what I can tell, but I respect the hell out of his voluntary service, even when he doesn't agree with his CIC.

You need to step back, CC.

[arnaldoabru 11]

OK. My bad. Carry on. You seem to be having such a wonderful life. Sorry the conservatives in this country have upset you so. The only point I am addressing is your martyrdom of still serving and always moaning about it and then trying to condemn others for not joining your misery. But if you are happy, ither than Bush, then by all means accept my apology. As if it's sincere.

I don't see it as martyrdom and I don't moan about it. You need to break yourself of the habit of trying to fit those who disagree with you and George and the two or three hundred of you left into some convenient little "they hate America" box. You also need to break yourself of the habit of accusing me of doing nothing to protect this country when you yourself have done nothing toward that end. I told you a long time ago that you don't get to talk to me that way and I'm happy to point that out to you until you understand.

I GET to do whatever I want in the context that I can hold my own with you and many others. My opinion, however dismissed, is something I can and will give when I feel like it. Live with it...or don't. It's not like I give a s*** about your personal feelings. I just don't want to hear you bitch and moan.

So from your past posts over the years, you bitch and moan about your "service" more than anyone I know, except for that guy in HI who refused to serve. There are many of us on here who have heard it. We are happy to have you serve, but damn, shut up about it.

You act as if it were a different president, life would be easier for you. What did you sign up for? My son signed up knowing there is a war. He is on his 2nd tour. He doesn't bitch about the president. He bitches about the sonabitches that are trying to kill him and his friends. They are called terrorists. Have you heard of them? They want us DEAD. Have you heard that too? This president, who makes your life rough, HAS heard of them and wants them dead before they kill us. My son and his fellow soldiers know about it. They have no doubt the terrorists would be here if we weren't there. And they have seen what they can do. I trust the president and boots on the ground more than somebody who is just "hanging" in there hoping for a new softer president. If you support achmed, you support appeasement. And I find that sickening form a member of our armed forces. Therefore, every time you bitch and moan, I , and others, wonder why in the hell did you stay on?

Talking is not appesing. Sorry to interupt. you two carry on

[Tiger Al 0]

I do take issue with insinuating that people who have served our country for over 20 years as acting like martyrs or whining or whatever. I disagree with Al on a ton of issues and we almost never vote the same way from what I can tell, but I respect the hell out of his voluntary service, even when he doesn't agree with his CIC.

You need to step back, CC.

I appreciate that, Titan.

My problem, as I've said, is that many people here confuse abrasive, stereotypical and baseless comments and accusations with solid, well-reasoned arguments. Too often, contrary positions are lampooned and turned into an extreme caricature and passed off as legitimate debate. Blind, arrogant nationalism is erroneously equated with love of country and anything short of that gets you into the "Hate America crowd." That's fine. I see that as a commentary on the character of the person who does that, not the person he says it to.

This is especially evident when it comes to discussion of Iraq. People apply Bush's false dichotomy of, "You're either with us or against us," and those deemed "against us" are dismissed as the loony fringe, appeasers or traitors, without regard to the actual, stated reasons for coming to their conclusions. I know that on the subject of Iraq, I've spent countless hours, as have others, listing and re-listing and explaining in numerous different ways why I've come to the conclusions I have. It gets kind of old to have all that simply ignored and told that it's really because I don't have the intestinal fortitude to stand up and protect America, especially when I have always stood up and my accuser never has.

I don't bring up my military service to be thanked, praised or given an attaboy for it. These were never on my list of reasons. It's because it's relevant to show how irrelevant and incorrect the caricatures are. The box that we're always forced into is that we hate America or that we desire for her to fail or that we're terrorists by association because we disagree with the war in Iraq. Legitimate disagreements are distorted into strawman phrases such as 'cut and run', 'appeaser', etc., etc. These are nice bumper stickers, but, they're not an argument.

[CCTAU 3,350]

I do take issue with insinuating that people who have served our country for over 20 years as acting like martyrs or whining or whatever. I disagree with Al on a ton of issues and we almost never vote the same way from what I can tell, but I respect the hell out of his voluntary service, even when he doesn't agree with his CIC.

You need to step back, CC.

I appreciate that, Titan.

My problem, as I've said, is that many people here confuse abrasive, stereotypical and baseless comments and accusations with solid, well-reasoned arguments. Too often, contrary positions are lampooned and turned into an extreme caricature and passed off as legitimate debate. Blind, arrogant nationalism is erroneously equated with love of country and anything short of that gets you into the "Hate America crowd." That's fine. I see that as a commentary on the character of the person who does that, not the person he says it to.

This is especially evident when it comes to discussion of Iraq. People apply Bush's false dichotomy of, "You're either with us or against us," and those deemed "against us" are dismissed as the loony fringe, appeasers or traitors, without regard to the actual, stated reasons for coming to their conclusions. I know that on the subject of Iraq, I've spent countless hours, as have others, listing and re-listing and explaining in numerous different ways why I've come to the conclusions I have. It gets kind of old to have all that simply ignored and told that it's really because I don't have the intestinal fortitude to stand up and protect America, especially when I have always stood up and my accuser never has.

I don't bring up my military service to be thanked, praised or given an attaboy for it. These were never on my list of reasons. It's because it's relevant to show how irrelevant and incorrect the caricatures are. The box that we're always forced into is that we hate America or that we desire for her to fail or that we're terrorists by association because we disagree with the war in Iraq. Legitimate disagreements are distorted into strawman phrases such as 'cut and run', 'appeaser', etc., etc. These are nice bumper stickers, but, they're not an argument.And to me that is

Nobody ever said you hated America. You hate Bush. Your CIC. And that is the part that I can't stand. I didn't like Clinton, but then again, he wasn't my boss. He was for many, and they did not spew forth the hatred you have for your boss, while he was their boss. So go ahead and stand high on that mountain.

As for the premise of the original post, nowhere does it say anything about Bush calling this a sacrifice. But you sure as hell jumped all over your boss on this one. As you do every time. Most folks move on to a different career when they hate their boss as badly as you do. They don't stick around and try to tear the company down from the inside. You are in the box you have put YOURSELF in, I did not put you there.

Like I have said many times, thanks for volunteering, but quit bitching about it. It seems that all this "standing up and protecting" has left you weary and hateful. And that's a shame.

[Tiger Al 0]

I do take issue with insinuating that people who have served our country for over 20 years as acting like martyrs or whining or whatever. I disagree with Al on a ton of issues and we almost never vote the same way from what I can tell, but I respect the hell out of his voluntary service, even when he doesn't agree with his CIC.

You need to step back, CC.

I appreciate that, Titan.

My problem, as I've said, is that many people here confuse abrasive, stereotypical and baseless comments and accusations with solid, well-reasoned arguments. Too often, contrary positions are lampooned and turned into an extreme caricature and passed off as legitimate debate. Blind, arrogant nationalism is erroneously equated with love of country and anything short of that gets you into the "Hate America crowd." That's fine. I see that as a commentary on the character of the person who does that, not the person he says it to.

This is especially evident when it comes to discussion of Iraq. People apply Bush's false dichotomy of, "You're either with us or against us," and those deemed "against us" are dismissed as the loony fringe, appeasers or traitors, without regard to the actual, stated reasons for coming to their conclusions. I know that on the subject of Iraq, I've spent countless hours, as have others, listing and re-listing and explaining in numerous different ways why I've come to the conclusions I have. It gets kind of old to have all that simply ignored and told that it's really because I don't have the intestinal fortitude to stand up and protect America, especially when I have always stood up and my accuser never has.

I don't bring up my military service to be thanked, praised or given an attaboy for it. These were never on my list of reasons. It's because it's relevant to show how irrelevant and incorrect the caricatures are. The box that we're always forced into is that we hate America or that we desire for her to fail or that we're terrorists by association because we disagree with the war in Iraq. Legitimate disagreements are distorted into strawman phrases such as 'cut and run', 'appeaser', etc., etc. These are nice bumper stickers, but, they're not an argument.And to me that is

Nobody ever said you hated America. You hate Bush. Your CIC. And that is the part that I can't stand. I didn't like Clinton, but then again, he wasn't my boss. He was for many, and they did not spew forth the hatred you have for your boss, while he was their boss. So go ahead and stand high on that mountain.

As for the premise of the original post, nowhere does it say anything about Bush calling this a sacrifice. But you sure as hell jumped all over your boss on this one. As you do every time. Most folks move on to a different career when they hate their boss as badly as you do. They don't stick around and try to tear the company down from the inside. You are in the box you have put YOURSELF in, I did not put you there.

Like I have said many times, thanks for volunteering, but quit bitching about it. It seems that all this "standing up and protecting" has left you weary and hateful. And that's a shame.

Well, CCTAU, if he wasn't such a lousy CIC I wouldn't be critical of him. I'm sorry that you can't stand that I don't deify him as you do.

As for the premise of the original post, parse words if you like, but, the bottom line is that he claimed something he was doing was wrong and he'd stop. That lasted less than 60 days.