Change of heart

[nanatiger 3]

What we have been hearing during this pay for play garbage has slowly made me change my views on college athletes being given spending money. I always agreed with my Dad that they are given a free education and that should be sufficient. But times have changed. It's my understanding that their scholarship covers tuition and books. (Please correct me if I have this wrong.) That means they have to pay for food, rent, transportion. Housing used to be included before the NCAA changed the rules re: athletic dorms in the early 90's. Seems to me it's time for the NCAA to address the situation. Why not allow schools to set up a fund for all athletes, not just football, basketball, etc. Then boosters could make legal donations to help the kids out and not illegally give them money as bribes to sign. No, I'm not naive. I know they will still keep doing that, but if a kid knows help is available, maybe he'll be less likely to take the bribe. I think even my Dad would agree that something has to change or the situation will only get worse.

[bigsixfive 328]

Contrary to the perception, athletes aren't allowed to starve due to lack of money. They're given a tremendous amount of food, healthcare, and they're provided with housing if they want it (they don't have to live off campus). No, they're not going to live a glamorous lifestyle, but they're COLLEGE athletes. Most college students don't live glamorous lifestyles, and most certainly don't get the lifestyle of an athlete (which they work their tail off for, don't get me wrong).

What they are given is undervalued, in my opinion: an opportunity to come out with a Bachelors or possibly Masters degree debt free. Add everything up and it can total well over $100K, even for a college like Auburn. Imagine the price tag at a private university in an expensive area of the country, such as Stanford. That one could likely easily run $500K, not counting the fact the athlete has a degree from one of the most prestigious universities in the world. Now, what portion of the billion dollar pie is that? I don't know. I do know I'd sign up for the deal in a heartbeat though.

Whoever is in charge needs to make a decision on the classification of the athlete. Either their college athletes, who remain college students, or they're minor league athletes who really won't be affiliated with the college at all. If they're only there to earn a paycheck, what's the point of forcing them to go to class? Can colleges really afford to give them a free education, roof, food, stipends, etc., in addition to a salary? Who makes sure Alabama doesn't go crazy with Alex Rodriguez like contracts? Who's liable when a university doesn't make enough money to pay salaries? What about benefits? Retirement? Who sets up a financial planning program so 18 year olds don't blow through a million bucks before they're 19? (This should be done for all college students, in my opinion). A whole can of worms is sitting and waiting for the moment athletes are paid.

[Tigermike 3,099]

They also get free tutoring if they need or want it.

[RunInRed 16,635]

PM posted an article (premium) on this subject a few days ago. And in general, I agree with him. Here's what AU players get:

- All expense paid education

- Unlimited access to tutors, counselors, study hall, etc.

- Also, players are welcome to come back at any time to complete their education (Operation Followthrough)

- In addition, depending on their financial situation, they can qualify for Pell Grants (up to 5K per year)

Now, compare that to your situation and what you had to pay (or still are via loans) for your education. The bottom line is, college athletes are presented with an incredible opportunity to do something with their lives. I don't understand all the complaining about this issue, what am I missing?

[TitanTiger 20,572]

They also get a small stipend on weekends when the chow hall is closed. But you'd have to spend it very miserly to get through a weekend of meals if you don't have some other sources of money. I think Kody Bliss said they got about $27 to get them through a weekend. I might be able to pull that off with some coupons or going to the grocery store for cheap eats like cereal instead of hitting fast food places. But I don't eat like an offensive lineman either.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

They get access to Sewell during the week. That's the best place to eat on campus.

I see both sides of the payment debate. On one hand, football players are clearly being used. There have been statistical studies showing how applications increase when the football team wins, how donations increase to both that athletic department and the general fund, etc. Football players are playing semi-pro ball without professional level wages. Here's the problem, you can't create a caste system among scholarship athletes. I don't see how you can call it amatuer athletics if you're setting different rules for revenue producers than non-revenue producers. If that's the case, most athletics departments simply could not function if they had to pay all scholarship athletes. They'd have to rely on the university for additional funding, which the universities cannot provide. Paying players would bankrupt the system. If you're advocating payment through private sources only, you're basically eliminating all small schools from contention. Athletes already prefer plays like Texas and Alabama... add legal payment to those preferences and you'd kill the sport.

In the end, guys just have to be willing to take all the benefits offered. Go to class. Get your degree. If you leave early to go pro, come back on the athletic department's dime (the followthrough program mentioned above). Eat at Sewell as often as possible. Use your weekend stipend wisely. Take Pell Grants. Work the tutors to keep your grades up. Live on campus. Network with alumni to ensure job offers post-graduation. If a guy is willing to do all that, he'll have an easier time getting through school than most, and he'll put every dime offered him to use.

[Justin5 20]

In my mind it comes down to a very simple rule. If we don't allow these kids to go straight from high school to the nlf - then we should pay them. If we do allow that, then dont pay them.

[IndianTiger 95]

Provide a stipend. They can't work on campus or off and make any spending money. I agree with Justin.

(I worked as a tutor in late 80's and early 90's and there is a lot of difference between the have's and have not's on the football team and that just leads to what we are seeing more these days)

[TitanTiger 20,572]

My plan would be to provide a stipend that is roughly the same as what they'd make working 25 hrs a week at an normal part time job in their area. But on top of that, set aside a portion of the profits from NCAA and school's profits in a trust account. If you stay and graduate, you get all of it (just for grins, say it's $50,000). If you leave after 2 years you get half. You get nothing if you leave after one year. If within a defined period of time after you leave you're implicated in any illegal activity (taking illegal benefits, cheating, point shaving, etc.) you have to pay back, with interest, anything you got from the account.

But I'm betting that won't fly with Title IX stuff if it only applies to revenue generating sports.

[Duck07 0]

One beef I have with what goes on is the "1 year scholarship." If these kids end up hurt (or under-perform) they get gut, lose their scholarship and now that "free education" is out of the window. This would also help curb the problem of over-signing. Another thing to consider is that while the FB/BB teams have rosters nearly full of full-scholarship players, the other sports team have greater scholarship restrictions and most of those players all have to take out massive loans. I guess this is acceptable to the ncaa because only FB/BB are money makers and since track, golf etc cost the schools money, why should those same "student-athletes" get full scholarships as well.

I think there is some great hypocrisy that goes on, especially in BB because while Emmert will flaunt the "student-athlete" tag (I don't disagree with it on premise) when you look at how the graduation rates for black players have not really changed over the years something needs to be implemented to change all of this. If you do end up creating a system that sees schools pay players, they should be paid upon graduation for completing their status as "student-athletes." You could also make it so you can leave and go pro whenever, but then you forfeit any monies owed.

One last thing that needs to happen is the NCAA needs to open their books and I believe that all of the University's demanding this could bring it about. I'm a little repulsed at the notion that Emmert is most likely taking in over $1.5M/year

[mcgufcm 4,107]

So you're only paying football players? What about basketball players? What about basketball players at places like Auburn where they don't generate revenue? What about basketball players at places like VCU where paying athletes would cause the athletic department to shut down other non-revenue sports just to compete in a sport where stipends are required (if you allow them, they become a requirement to actually compete)? You're creating a huge divide among scholarship athletes. I don't think that's a good thing.

[TitanTiger 20,572]

So you're only paying football players? What about basketball players? What about basketball players at places like Auburn where they don't generate revenue? What about basketball players at places like VCU where paying athletes would cause the athletic department to shut down other non-revenue sports just to compete in a sport where stipends are required (if you allow them, they become a requirement to actually compete)? You're creating a huge divide among scholarship athletes. I don't think that's a good thing.

Well, that's the rub. Do you pay based on whether a sport is revenue generating or does everyone from the starting QB down to the golf and equestrian teams get the same money? Can schools even afford that?

Or do you do a thing where the conferences and the NCAA set aside a certain percentage of TV, radio, bowl and merch licensing revenues and put it in one big pool, and pay all athletes out of that? And if you pay even the women's field hockey or men's cricket teams, does it make the portion you're pay so small as to not really be an effective incentive not to take illegal benefits?

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

Paying players wouldn't solve the problem. There would always be someone willing to pay them backdoor above what they were getting from the university and plenty of players that would take it.

What they need to do is change the part about jobs. Allow them to have jobs during the offseason period not just the summer.

[AUgrad00 7]

Paying players wouldn't solve the problem. There would always be someone willing to pay them backdoor above what they were getting from the university and plenty of players that would take it.

What they need to do is change the part about jobs. Allow them to have jobs during the offseason period not just the summer.

This may be offensive I dont care. Slaves had room and board. College football players should be paid. Lets quit pretending this is amateur athletics. Yea real amateur lets ask John Junker.

How much loot did AU make just off Cam jersey's last year. Why the hell should he not get a cut of that?

The John Junker's off the world make millions while the athletes make nothing by comparison. Nice system. Some unaffiliated middle aged white opportunist is cleaning up on a sport that is played by predominatnly black inner city kids with nothing. Bullcrap.

I am not saying they should be paid millions but they should get some additional compensation not to clean up to sport but because its the right thing to do.

[AURaptor 1,129]

Under no circumstances should athletes be 'paid' by the school or the ncaa. It simply cannot happen.

Title IX , and amateurism.

End of story.

[OldNewby 27]

How do we weed out those who worship the god More??

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

Paying players wouldn't solve the problem. There would always be someone willing to pay them backdoor above what they were getting from the university and plenty of players that would take it.

What they need to do is change the part about jobs. Allow them to have jobs during the offseason period not just the summer.

This may be offensive I dont care. Slaves had room and board. College football players should be paid. Lets quit pretending this is amateur athletics. Yea real amateur lets ask John Junker.

How much loot did AU make just off Cam jersey's last year. Why the hell should he not get a cut of that?

The John Junker's off the world make millions while the athletes make nothing by comparison. Nice system. Some unaffiliated middle aged white opportunist is cleaning up on a sport that is played by predominatnly black inner city kids with nothing. Bullcrap.

I am not saying they should be paid millions but they should get some additional compensation not to clean up to sport but because its the right thing to do.

I was a scholarship athlete. I think they get paid plenty with what they get.

I have a relative that held a high position as a AU faculty member years ago. Wanna know what happens with all the money that came from those number 2 jerseys..... right back into the athletic program. Fact that's where all that money goes, sales.... donations... anything given to AU. Why when they donate to Auburn they specifically pick a college of the university to make the donation to, because if they do it through the general type funds it gets funneled into the athletic program.

Spare me the Adrian Peterson we are slaves bit. Those number two jerseys are paying for scholarships, equipment, travel, and tons upon other tons of factors that rack up the some 80k a year it cost a university for one football player (and that was 5 plus years ago when I found that article for a research paper, no telling what the cost is now). Auburn spends about 28 million on the football program alone.

All this money they made for the university.. enough to purchase a new bb arena and now a new indoor facility for the football program. Yet there is a fee on tuition bills for a new student act that myself and other students will only see when visiting. Or how about all those departments that don't have enough space and their class rooms and offices are scattered around campus as well as their labs.

Some of it does go other places and it does make a name for the university, but the majority of that money those players make for the university goes right back to them in terms of facilities and equipment.

Also yes, other sports do piggy back off of football/basketball for funds. But they get nowhere near the funding (fact most of them are not given enough for full scholarships for a entire team).

Paying players won't solve the problem cause again.. someone is still gonna offer them more. Not all universities will be able to afford athletic programs if you have the pay the players and will have to drop their programs (eliminating opportunities for perspective student athletes).

Let them have jobs not just during the summer but during the offseason and as one person suggested let them try and go pro right out of HS if they like. Course you would then have to get the NFL to set up some type of minor league system, but there is always arena and Canada atm.

Oh.. and just open the damn dining hall on weekends for the athletes since that seems to be one of their top complaints (finding food on the weekend).

[IndianTiger 95]

I still think a "Need based Stipend" aproach is worthwhile. Low family income , you will be eligible.

[AUTigerCourt 92]

When I cheered, we got a meal allowance when we went out of town. I want to say it was $10-15 for lunch and up to $25 for dinner. It was very easy to grab something off the dollar menu and have some extra spending money. When we had a game over breaks, we also got money to cover travel. I want to say it was $25-30 per game. It was several years ago, so I don't remember exact numbers, but I just remember it was a lot more than it should have been.

[AU Lover 0]

My husband was on a football scholarship at Auburn many years ago. I, of course, was not. When all was said and done nothing was owed for his tuition and fees, room, board, books, and (then) laundry. That was certainly not the case with me. I had the same expenses and my parents and I paid for all of them. My daughters both have degrees for which we will be paying forever it seems. Athletes get paid an all expense paid ride through college for their talent.

Second point, if athletes are paid, even a stipend, it will greatly differentiate between the have's and have not's as far as schools are concerned. Large, well endowed schools would be able to pay more than smaller, less "rich" schools would. Either that or many schools would have to drop scholarship sports because they would not be able to afford a stipend if all stipends were required to be the same.

If the less affluent athletes are allowed to apply for Pell grants (probably as well as others) then I'll bet money the athletic department has someone who helps them fill out the application so that they have the best chance of getting the grant. In addition, I'm sure they are allowed to apply for student loans just as any other student can.

These athletes are not taken advantage of by anyone. It's just like in life. You can take advantange of the opportunities that come your way and make the best of them or you can be a victim. Some people choose to be victims.

[cptau 169]

I like the idea of officially paying athletes something while they play and putting some of the money in an account for later payment. Colleges all lose some scholarship players to the pro's because they need cash to support their families. Auburn has lost several guys because of that. A little official cash might have kept them here and playing.

And for crying out loud keep a place open for them to eat 7 days a week. These guys practice and train like crazy so they eat a ton of food at all times. Unless there is some NCAA rule against it, keep a place open on campus for the scholarship athletes to eat.

All this said some players will be greedy. The coaches and AD have to keep them out of trouble and remind them of the rules at all times. Once boosters get to players with handshake cash some want more and more. That's when schools and players get in trouble and usually bad NCAA trouble..

[LegalEagle 22]

Under no circumstances should athletes be 'paid' by the school or the ncaa. It simply cannot happen.

Title IX , and amateurism.

End of story.

Just couldn't pass up the opportunity to agree 100% with Raptor on something. Raptor, you're dead right. Stick a fork in it, this thread is done.

[bigsixfive 328]

Colleges all lose some scholarship players to the pro's because they need cash to support their families.

Auburn's also lost several students for the same reason. Until they're no longer deemed student-athletes, there can be no preferential treatment to student groups beyond what is necessary for that particular group, and outright paying some students to stay in school when they have other options to generate income is obviously beyond what is necessary. Also, what colleges would be able to pay athletes - let's get real: football and a hand full of basketball players - would be beans compared to income from the NFL or NBA.

[nanatiger 3]

Ok. Seems to me the best idea to come of this thread (I took the fork out ) is to allow student athletes to have jobs. This is one advantage all other students, including those on academic scholarships, do have. I don't see why the NCAA won't allow this. I believe the old argument had to do with boosters who would "hire" them and not actually require them to work. Wouldn't it be easier to control that problem than it currently is to control the money handshake problem?

[bigsixfive 328]

I don't see why the NCAA won't allow this. I believe the old argument had to do with boosters who would "hire" them and not actually require them to work. Wouldn't it be easier to control that problem than it currently is to control the money handshake problem?

The two aren't mutually exclusive.