Woody Barrett Transferring

[ToomersStreet 795]

13 hours ago, augolf1716 said:

Maybe to a certain extent but his number one problem was reading defenses

Because he still reads at a high school level.........................................................

[lionheartkc 6,150]

12 hours ago, auburnphan said:

Loeffler did not destroy KF, that is one of the biggest BS excuses from Auburn fans.  He had terrible fundamentals, processed things to slow. You were not gonna meet a nicer person than KF during his time on the team, he just never adjusted to the speed of the game and reading defenses.  Gus changed his position  for a reason, he wasn't a SEC QB, period.

I totally disagree with you.  Loeffler tried to force a true dual-threat QB into a pocket passer roll. That, combined with the fact that he had no protection killed his confidence. Had he been allowed to play his game instead of being forced to completely adjust his style, he could have been amazing. I don't have time to look it up, but I would be willing to bet he had the best numbers, coming out of high school, of any QB we've had since Gus set foot on campus. He needed some refining, as all HS QBs do, but he needed to be able to play his game, not Loeffler's.

[Tiger 8,822]

please, please, please don't reference Kiehl Frazier's HS numbers at least in the context of trying to prove how good of a QB he was. Look at the competition he was facing. He played at a tiny private school in Arkansas. it is a pre-school through 12th grade school and their entire student body, per wikipedia, is less than 800 kids. It's safe to say they were not playing top competition.

Just look at the highlights he is bigger than most of the offensive and defensive lineman he played against in HS. I seriously think it would be a challenge to find a more misleading HS highlight reel.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just now, Tiger said:

please, please, please don't reference Kiehl Frazier's HS numbers at least in the context of trying to prove how good of a QB he was. Look at the competition he was facing. He played at a tiny private school in Arkansas. it is a pre-school through 12th grade school and their entire student body, per wikipedia, is less than 800 kids. It's safe to say they were not playing top competition.

Just look at the highlights he is bigger than most of the offensive and defensive lineman he played against in HS. I seriously think it would be a challenge to find a more misleading HS highlight reel.

As much as competition matters, the ability to put a ball on target is what it is, no matter the competition. From a pure QB skill set, Frazier was farther along than any HS QB we've brought in except Sean... Jeremy maybe.

[AUld fAUx@ 2,584]

26 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I totally disagree with you.  Loeffler tried to force a true dual-threat QB into a pocket passer roll. That, combined with the fact that he had no protection killed his confidence. Had he been allowed to play his game instead of being forced to completely adjust his style, he could have been amazing. I don't have time to look it up, but I would be willing to bet he had the best numbers, coming out of high school, of any QB we've had since Gus set foot on campus. He needed some refining, as all HS QBs do, but he needed to be able to play his game, not Loeffler's.

This is sort'a how I remember things (not always a sure source). I remember talk of "matadors" on our line, and our backfield "deer in the headlights." Shoot, I was watching on TV from over 100 miles away, but I couldn't help physically flinching every time he tried to stay "where he belonged" while "where he belonged" disappeared.

[Tiger 8,822]

44 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

As much as competition matters, the ability to put a ball on target is what it is, no matter the competition. From a pure QB skill set, Frazier was farther along than any HS QB we've brought in except Sean... Jeremy maybe.

I hear ya. I don't think there's one thing we can point at regarding KF but the things you mentioned definitely had an effect. Also the entire program was actively crumbling around him during his time as QB here. But I just think he didn't have the brain to play SEC QB due to the speed of the game -- and that's OK. It takes a very special person to have the exact right combination of certain skills to make it work - most importantly being able to process things quickly, which he just couldn't do. I don't think that's a learned trait I think you either have it or you don't. All the other stuff just compounded this IMO

[McLoofus 35,182]

14 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I hear ya. I don't think there's one thing we can point at regarding KF but the things you mentioned definitely had an effect. Also the entire program was actively crumbling around him during his time as QB here. But I just think he didn't have the brain to play SEC QB due to the speed of the game -- and that's OK. It takes a very special person to have the exact right combination of certain skills to make it work - most importantly being able to process things quickly, which he just couldn't do. I don't think that's a learned trait I think you either have it or you don't. All the other stuff just compounded this IMO

Bingo.

Loeffler didn't destroy anything. Dude has remained employed as a P5 OC ever since he left AU. He can claim several more NFL QBs on his resume than Gus can. He's not a "great" OC by any means, but he's not nearly the doofus that Auburn fans want him to be IMO. He failed almost exactly as bad as Gus was failing by the end of 2011. Besides, he was only here one year. And if Kiehl was a "pure QB" with above average ball skills- and if those skills at the high school level were predictors of success at the college level- then he could have thrown from a pocket if there was one to throw from. 

Those were crap teams in 2011 and 2012, top to bottom. A lot of talent, but undisciplined, unmotivated, un-led. Go back and watch the 2011 games against our big 3 rivals. In hindsight, 2012 shouldn't have surprised any of us. 

As for Kiehl, I don't know if he ever stood a chance of being a legit college QB. But out of him, JJ, Kodi, Woody, Clint, Trotter (remember him?)... I mean, *one* of them should have been at least a serviceable QB at Auburn. As for Sean White's success, the failed Franklin experiment and last year's Clemson game show that it happened *despite* Gus. 

Also, keep an eye on Willis. We signed him in February... seemingly out of nowhere... and right after we hired Lindsey. If he ends up being better than every kid on that list- and, by all indications, he will be- then I think a lot of questions about Gus's evaluation *and* coaching will be answered. 

[meh130 1,043]

KF and JJ seemed to suffer from the same problem: A lack of confidence when facing SEC caliber competition.

[DAG 33,980]

2 hours ago, Tiger said:

please, please, please don't reference Kiehl Frazier's HS numbers at least in the context of trying to prove how good of a QB he was. Look at the competition he was facing. He played at a tiny private school in Arkansas. it is a pre-school through 12th grade school and their entire student body, per wikipedia, is less than 800 kids. It's safe to say they were not playing top competition.

Just look at the highlights he is bigger than most of the offensive and defensive lineman he played against in HS. I seriously think it would be a challenge to find a more misleading HS highlight reel.

 

 

 

As a past resident of Arkansas, who has seen both Eddie (Kiehl older brother) and Kiehl play. I concur. Shiloh Christian would be a 1a or 2a school in Bama and they would not be dominating. Arkansas has terrible talent. It is what it is. Specifically at the lower levels. This is why I always question 5 star or high-end Arkansas athletes, with the exception of those competing at the highest level..and even those are a stretch. Think about this for a second. At the time, Shiloh Christian was considered one of the elite schools in Arkansas because they could compete and beat some of the higher level public schools. That would be the equivalent of a school like Prattville Christian Academy beating Park-Crossing out of Montgomery. That is how bad the competition level is there. Bentonville, Pulaski Academy ( What up Will hastings) and Greenwood are probably the three best schools there now. Pulaski Academy is a school that NEVER punts AND always does onside kicks, BTW. They always go for it on 4th down, which is almost unheard of and they are one of the most dominating teams in Arkansas football history.

[DAG 33,980]

 

No disrespect, but look at this squad. This is the squad in 2010 that Frazier led against Euless Trinity and who ultimately waltz into another Arkansas state championship.

http://www.maxpreps.com/high-schools/shiloh-christian-saints-(springdale,ar)/football-fall-10/schedule.htm

Look at these scores.

[Tiger 8,822]

41 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Bingo.

Loeffler didn't destroy anything. Dude has remained employed as a P5 OC ever since he left AU. He can claim several more NFL QBs on his resume than Gus can. He's not a "great" OC by any means, but he's not nearly the doofus that Auburn fans want him to be IMO. He failed almost exactly as bad as Gus was failing by the end of 2011. Besides, he was only here one year. And if Kiehl was a "pure QB" with above average ball skills- and if those skills at the high school level were predictors of success at the college level- then he could have thrown from a pocket if there was one to throw from. 

Those were crap teams in 2011 and 2012, top to bottom. A lot of talent, but undisciplined, unmotivated, un-led. Go back and watch the 2011 games against our big 3 rivals. In hindsight, 2012 shouldn't have surprised any of us. 

As for Kiehl, I don't know if he ever stood a chance of being a legit college QB. But out of him, JJ, Kodi, Woody, Clint, Trotter (remember him?)... I mean, *one* of them should have been at least a serviceable QB at Auburn. As for Sean White's success, the failed Franklin experiment and last year's Clemson game show that it happened *despite* Gus. 

Also, keep an eye on Willis. We signed him in February... seemingly out of nowhere... and right after we hired Lindsey. If he ends up being better than every kid on that list- and, by all indications, he will be- then I think a lot of questions about Gus's evaluation *and* coaching will be answered. 

Good points.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Loeffler didn't destroy anything.

You don't think taking a dual-threat QB and forcing him to stand in the pocket when he is getting no protection at all didn't do a number on his confidence?

1 hour ago, meh130 said:

KF and JJ seemed to suffer from the same problem: A lack of confidence when facing SEC ca

But at least Jeremy had a reasonable O-Line and was playing in the kind of system he was used to.

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

You don't think taking a dual-threat QB and forcing him to stand in the pocket when he is getting no protection at all didn't do a number on his confidence?

Yes, I do. I've actually argued with people who don't. The point of the rest of my post was that those struck-through variables aren't terribly significant IMO. His getting no protection wasn't a function of Loeffler's offense, and it's not like he was Lamar Jackson. Loeffler probably did his best to protect Kiehl, but he couldn't turn chicken poop into chicken salad. That team just really, really sucked. 

Could he have had a little more success moving Kiehl out of the pocket more? Maybe, I dunno. Would it have been the difference between Kiehl going on to be a serviceable or better quarterback at Auburn and what actually happened? I really don't think so. I mean, if his confidence was shattered after just one year to the point that it couldn't be repaired by his football father figure Gus coming back to save the day, then Kiehl (or Gus?) just didn't have the stuff.

This is weird. I really never thought I'd be defending Scot Loeffler in any way, shape or form. That was never my intent. My point remains that- after his mistakes in 2016, from the offseason until we hired Lindsey- Gus's string of failed, highly recruited QBs becomes even more highly suspect. And I used to lead the charge on the excuse making. 

[auburnphan 6,050]

13 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

I totally disagree with you.  Loeffler tried to force a true dual-threat QB into a pocket passer roll. That, combined with the fact that he had no protection killed his confidence. Had he been allowed to play his game instead of being forced to completely adjust his style, he could have been amazing. I don't have time to look it up, but I would be willing to bet he had the best numbers, coming out of high school, of any QB we've had since Gus set foot on campus. He needed some refining, as all HS QBs do, but he needed to be able to play his game, not Loeffler's.

Dude he played small ball Arkansas, grew up in Gus' offense, yet when Gus got back he had him switch positions.   QB's at power five conferences have glowing HS resumes, that is how they get to that point.  Your entire rational for your argument is illogical.  I am glad you have a gut feeling but it is not factual.  The worst thing that happened to KF was his father figure boasting him up to be God-like and putting too many expectations on him, not Scott Loeffler.  Again I am gonna point out KF is a great person, met him several times and am confident that he does not agree with your conclusion.

Just to understanding things, Loeffler in one year broke KF's heart so much that he could not play QB anymore, but NM who started at DB for Georgia cuz he was not good enough to be a QB and transferred to a JUCO and then arrived at Auburn and won the team over and took them to the National Championship one year later....makes total sense

[AlaskanFAN 1,665]

Old update on Frazier and what he says happened at Auburn.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/kiehl-frazier-former-auburn-tigers-quarterback-ouachita-baptist-110514

[metafour 4,969]

Frazier just wasn't very good.  At some point the player can either play or he can't, regardless of what the situation is like.  The ida that he would have been a star QB had the stars aligned differently is a joke: a star QB wouldn't look like crap even under a less than favorable situation.  Jay Cutler had absolutely zero support on those crap Vanderbilt teams he played on and he still excelled. 

[AUwent 3,748]

23 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Bingo.

Loeffler didn't destroy anything. Dude has remained employed as a P5 OC ever since he left AU. He can claim several more NFL QBs on his resume than Gus can. He's not a "great" OC by any means, but he's not nearly the doofus that Auburn fans want him to be IMO. He failed almost exactly as bad as Gus was failing by the end of 2011. Besides, he was only here one year. And if Kiehl was a "pure QB" with above average ball skills- and if those skills at the high school level were predictors of success at the college level- then he could have thrown from a pocket if there was one to throw from. 

Those were crap teams in 2011 and 2012, top to bottom. A lot of talent, but undisciplined, unmotivated, un-led. Go back and watch the 2011 games against our big 3 rivals. In hindsight, 2012 shouldn't have surprised any of us. 

The notion that the 2013 team was the "luckiest team ever" is BS. That title goes to 2011. My god, was that the most deceiving 8-5 record ever. The median score of our SEC shames that year was a 15-36 loss (2012 was 10-33). 

[oracle79 3,569]

5 hours ago, AlaskanFAN said:

Old update on Frazier and what he says happened at Auburn.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/kiehl-frazier-former-auburn-tigers-quarterback-ouachita-baptist-110514

http://www.footballinsiders.com/breaking-former-auburn-qb-kiehl-frazier-working-out-at-ucla-pro-day/

Which pro team is he with now?  That link above was the most recent I could find on google.

[doc4aday 1,887]

I really pulled hard for the young man in that I thought that there was something there that would rise to the top once he had a good idea of how to run the offense. I wish the best for Woody and hope one day he can be a starter for some college down the road.  God Bless and the best to you Woody!

[doc4aday 1,887]

Loeffler was terrible at Va Tech. I was surprised that Coach Beamer kept him as long as he did.  Loeffler might be a decent QB coach, but I would not want him within 50 feet of any or our QBs.

[ClaytonAU 4,606]

3 hours ago, AUwent said:

The notion that the 2013 team was the "luckiest team ever" is BS. That title goes to 2011. My god, was that the most deceiving 8-5 record ever. The median score of our SEC shames that year was a 15-36 loss (2012 was 10-33). 

I couldn't agree more, 2011 was really really bad. How we didn't know 2012 was coming is crazy. I have an old note where I made predictions on the 2012 season and had us only losing to Alabama. 

[bigbird 60,512]

14 minutes ago, ClaytonAU said:

I have an old note where I made predictions on the 2012 season and had us only losing to Alabama. 

Thanks, Viper. 

[ClaytonAU 4,606]

Just now, bigbird said:

Thanks, Viper. 

Stop... 

[wde1968 262]

Just amazing how many qbs Auburn has missed on. I know its hit and miss with all schools but outside of 3 all have been pure **** in my 40+ years as a fan.

[AUwent 3,748]

2 hours ago, ClaytonAU said:

I couldn't agree more, 2011 was really really bad. How we didn't know 2012 was coming is crazy. I have an old note where I made predictions on the 2012 season and had us only losing to Alabama. 

The thing was that my expectations for 2011 were so low (like, I predicted 4 wins, 5 if we were lucky), that I (and some others) was pleasantly surprised by the fact that we won 8 games. I remember before that season hearing (and somewhat agreeing) that Chizik deserved a statue if he could get the team to a bowl . Surely the 2012 team was guaranteed to win at least one more game, right? The fact that we looked good in the bowl against Virginia, who has been complete crap since they beat FSU late that season, only amplified this optimism.

You could say that finishing second in the west last year (another instance of the team technically beating my losing season prediction) was deceiving but at very least there's only two teams on our schedule this year that you can say are ahead of us. Plus, our SEC median was a 20-15 win.

Basically, you can scoff at the notion of "moral victories," but generally a lot of "MVs" one year indicates a better season the next. It's a very good way to spot a team that will surprise and one that will disappoint in the pre-season.