Stidham, Willis work with qb coaches

[cole256 17,051]

16 hours ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

I didn't understand Cole either. The guy Stidham is working with is one of the top QB coaches in the business. Have no idea how good Vick is or how he teaches his mechanics. Must be OK if Lindsey approved. Nothing would suck more than Willis going to Vick and Vick screwing his Mechanics up. 

And don't say he played in the NFL, he has to be a good QB coach. Don't work that way. The best QB coaches in the busniess didn't play in the NFL. 

But Jordan Palmer is the best in the business because??????

And don't say because he sucked as a pro qb because that's not how it works either

[cole256 17,051]

9 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

Andy Reid. QB guru at your service. Mcnabb, AJ Feeley (sp?), Vick and Alex SMith. He can make any QB look good. Vick is a amazing athlete and was a pretty good QB some of the time. No idea if he is a good qb coach or not. No suprise tho his best year came with Andy Reid at the controls.

That very well may be the case but the scenario of him being older, more mature, and actually putting in work with his playbook may very well be the case also

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

11 hours ago, cole256 said:

But Jordan Palmer is the best in the business because??????

And don't say because he sucked as a pro qb because that's not how it works either

I really don't know. But people who do know football say he is a elite QB coach/teacher. 

[cole256 17,051]

15 minutes ago, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

I really don't know. But people who do know football say he is a elite QB coach/teacher. 

Ok. But it shouldn'tbe so hard to understand me like you said. You have two former qb's one was much better than the other but one hope he doesn't screw a kid up the other is a guru....I see no need to be critical of either...and I don't care if it was somebody like Mark Madsen or Luke Walton or Nick van exel, John Starks, or Kobe Bryant, Jordan, or Bird. If any wanted to work with my kid the last thing I'd think is hope he doesn't mess him up.....

[The Freak 2,527]

Jordan worked with Christian Hackenberg and Deshaun Watson.

 

Vick worked with JFIII.

 

Might be the reason for the concerns expressed.

[McLoofus 35,182]

17 minutes ago, The Freak said:

Jordan worked with Christian Hackenberg and Deshaun Watson.

Vick worked with JFIII.

Might be the reason for the concerns expressed.

Hopefully nobody would go to the trouble of being concerned about this without realizing that two of those guys were already elite quarterbacks coming out of high school and the third wasn't even considered a quarterback by the recruiting services or any P5 coaches not named Gustav Malzahn. 

[mcgufcm 4,096]

Well, in fairness, FSU offered him as a QB out of high school.

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, mcgufcm said:

Well, in fairness, FSU offered him as a QB out of high school.

This is factual and accurate. 

In case anyone wants to see his other offers out of high school... 

[cole256 17,051]

11 hours ago, The Freak said:

Jordan worked with Christian Hackenberg and Deshaun Watson.

 

Vick worked with JFIII.

 

Might be the reason for the concerns expressed.

Now that's funny. Give me lonzo ball to work with and give an actual trainer one of our guards to work with then I can add trainer to my resume!

[AUIH1 1,515]

On 5/30/2017 at 0:56 PM, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Has nothing to do with anything I posted. Just haven't seen all the rave reviews about Vick's coaching ability. No one I know has. Just a very good player. Nothing more. 

This.  Vick's success as a QB was due to something that can't be taught.  

wde

[Southwest 186]

On 6/1/2017 at 9:29 AM, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

I really don't know. But people who do know football say he is a elite QB coach/teacher. 

There lies the rub, noone really knows if Vick can become or is a great Qb coach/teacher.I dont think he has been doing it a very long time so lets give it a chance. I hope the same people who are questioning and dismissing Vick arent the same ones who say give Kodi a chance,give him a few years..

[80Tiger 899]

On ‎6‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 11:34 AM, McLoofus said:

This is factual and accurate. 

In case anyone wants to see his other offers out of high school... 

Just for comparison, it looks somewhat like S White's offer list out of high school.

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, 80Tiger said:

Just for comparison, it looks somewhat like S White's offer list out of high school.

Negative, Ghostrider. Also, Sean was the Elite 11 MVP. Also, Franklin's offer list *as a QB* was even worse when we actually signed him out of juco. 

Edit: Apologies, most of the big schools on there didn't actually offer him, so you're right. But Sean was still more highly credentialed. 

[FoundationEagle 637]

On 5/30/2017 at 10:48 AM, AUld fAUx@ said:

A proven QB tutor?

"This isn’t the first time Vick has worked with an Auburn quarterback. Last spring, Vick trained with John Franklin III, who arrived on the Plains from junior college. Franklin is now a full-time wide receiver for Auburn as a senior." [from the OP]

You mean an Auburn qb under the tutelage of Gus Malzahn was allowed to work with a qb coach on his own time before now?  Wierd 

[abw0004 10,110]

My two cents:  I have absolutely no problem with our guys working with QB coaches.  I think it can only help.  They might catch a flaw Chip might miss, just like when you finish a paper you want another person to proof it because you might miss it yourself.  I do think Stidham needs to bulk up just a tad, but not much.  I don't want him to lose his speed.  Nick Marshall was pretty skinny as well, and he did really well at Auburn.  

I can see why people are not pleased with Willis' choice of QB guru.  Vick never admitted wrongdoing in his dogfighting.  Once he got out he said he just wanted to play football, not that he was sorry.  Being a person who is heavily involved in protecting animals, dog fighting is extremely gruesome in what they do to force dogs to fight, not to mention fighting itself.  So, just because he did his time does not excuse him for his actions.  Animals rights laws are very lax in the United States, so no he really didn't "do his time."  It was more of a slap on the wrist.  

To the point of another poster on his football play, Vick's asset was his speed, and thats about it.  Being from Atlanta, everyone hated Vick before his dog fighting came to light.  He would try to run the ball every play, or just air out a pass that usually got picked.  Falcons fans booed him all of the time, and if you remember his famous incident where he flipped off Falcons fans on the field.  Atlanta was glad he was going to jail, so they could dump his contract and get a guy named Matt Ryan.

[DAG 33,980]

2 hours ago, abw0004 said:

My two cents:  I have absolutely no problem with our guys working with QB coaches.  I think it can only help.  They might catch a flaw Chip might miss, just like when you finish a paper you want another person to proof it because you might miss it yourself.  I do think Stidham needs to bulk up just a tad, but not much.  I don't want him to lose his speed.  Nick Marshall was pretty skinny as well, and he did really well at Auburn.  

I can see why people are not pleased with Willis' choice of QB guru.  Vick never admitted wrongdoing in his dogfighting.  Once he got out he said he just wanted to play football, not that he was sorry.  Being a person who is heavily involved in protecting animals, dog fighting is extremely gruesome in what they do to force dogs to fight, not to mention fighting itself.  So, just because he did his time does not excuse him for his actions.  Animals rights laws are very lax in the United States, so no he really didn't "do his time."  It was more of a slap on the wrist.  

To the point of another poster on his football play, Vick's asset was his speed, and thats about it.  Being from Atlanta, everyone hated Vick before his dog fighting came to light.  He would try to run the ball every play, or just air out a pass that usually got picked.  Falcons fans booed him all of the time, and if you remember his famous incident where he flipped off Falcons fans on the field.  Atlanta was glad he was going to jail, so they could dump his contract and get a guy named Matt Ryan.

2

Omit all of this. Have absolutely no bearings on evaluating a QB coach.

Also, I think some of you guys need to be open minded to why some of our players seek out Vick and not so quick to pigeon hole him as a person. Yes, what he did was horrible. Yes, he did do his time. Yes, he is still acting as a voice, speaking against his past actions. Furthermore, many players relate very well to Vick. Not just the athlete, but the person. Despite his heinous actions, they understand the story of redemption and I assume respect it. In their eyes, he is a role model. I know some of you guys find that despicable, but it is a reality.

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 hours ago, abw0004 said:

My two cents:  I have absolutely no problem with our guys working with QB coaches.  I think it can only help.  They might catch a flaw Chip might miss, just like when you finish a paper you want another person to proof it because you might miss it yourself.  I do think Stidham needs to bulk up just a tad, but not much.  I don't want him to lose his speed.  Nick Marshall was pretty skinny as well, and he did really well at Auburn.  

I can see why people are not pleased with Willis' choice of QB guru.  Vick never admitted wrongdoing in his dogfighting.  Once he got out he said he just wanted to play football, not that he was sorry.  Being a person who is heavily involved in protecting animals, dog fighting is extremely gruesome in what they do to force dogs to fight, not to mention fighting itself.  So, just because he did his time does not excuse him for his actions.  Animals rights laws are very lax in the United States, so no he really didn't "do his time."  It was more of a slap on the wrist.  

To the point of another poster on his football play, Vick's asset was his speed, and thats about it.  Being from Atlanta, everyone hated Vick before his dog fighting came to light.  He would try to run the ball every play, or just air out a pass that usually got picked.  Falcons fans booed him all of the time, and if you remember his famous incident where he flipped off Falcons fans on the field.  Atlanta was glad he was going to jail, so they could dump his contract and get a guy named Matt Ryan.

Huh? He definitely apologized. Then he became an activist with the Humane Society.  Plenty of Atlanta fans still hate him, but plenty of them love him, too, and even more loved him before the dogfighting stuff. I moved here right before all that stuff happened and there were WAY more 7 jerseys than any other, and there continued to be tons of them for several seasons after he left. I still see Vick jerseys around town. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the guy and I'm quite strongly against animal abuse of any form myself. I'm very grateful to you and others who help to protect animals. But let's paint an honest picture here.

[abw0004 10,110]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

Omit all of this. Have absolutely no bearings on evaluating a QB coach.

Also, I think some of you guys need to be open minded to why some of our players seek out Vick and not so quick to pigeon hole him as a person. Yes, what he did was horrible. Yes, he did do his time. Yes, he is still acting as a voice, speaking against his past actions. Furthermore, many players relate very well to Vick. Not just the athlete, but the person. Despite his heinous actions, they understand the story of redemption and I assume respect it. In their eyes, he is a role model. I know some of you guys find that despicable, but it is a reality.

I would have to respectfully disagree with this.  If the guy is not a good person, that needs to be considered on who you look to as a role model.  Athletes are role models on and off of the field.  For example, Duke Williams and JR were great athletes on the field.  So, why were they kicked off of the team if they were so good?  Because of what they did off of the field.  Would you want one of these phenomenal athletes that are being found guilty of rape mentoring your children?  And like I said, his "time" was really a slap on the wrist.  Redemption stories are more for guys like Cam Newton or Anthony Hargrove, not like guys like Vick or Aaron Hernandez (if he ever had the chance).  You don't get redemption for forcing living beings to kill each other, or raping someone, or murdering someone.

 

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

Huh? He definitely apologized. Then he became an activist with the Humane Society.  Plenty of Atlanta fans still hate him, but plenty of them love him, too, and even more loved him before the dogfighting stuff. I moved here right before all that stuff happened and there were WAY more 7 jerseys than any other, and there continued to be tons of them for several seasons after he left. I still see Vick jerseys around town. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the guy and I'm quite strongly against animal abuse of any form myself. I'm very grateful to you and others who help to protect animals. But let's paint an honest picture here.

I understand where you are coming from.  But, if we are being honest, Vick's apology was not sincere in the slightest.  And the Humane Society was a PR stunt.  Do you really think a guy who hosted and sponsored dogfighting would suddenly have a change of heart because he now just loved animals so much?  No, he just wanted to play football again, and this was the only avenue back.  And regarding his jersey, you still see OJ Simpson Bills and 49ers jerseys too.  

All of this is my opinion of course, and I knew there would be backlash for it as I know some people do not care about animals and their well being like I do.  Many people could care less, while I am the guy that will pull over to the side of the road and help a turtle simply cross the road that is scared into its shell with cars driving over it.  I am not against hunting for food, but I will never respect people who find enjoyment in tormenting animals.  I don't care how good of an athlete they are.

I want to keep my comments more focused on football, and animal welfare is way too touchy of a subject for me, just like environmentalism is.  I can get too fired up on those subjects, and can be political.  I respect your opinions, but this is mine.

[DAG 33,980]

 

10 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

I would have to respectfully disagree with this.  If the guy is not a good person, that needs to be considered on who you look to as a role model.  Athletes are role models on and off of the field.  For example, Duke Williams and JR were great athletes on the field.  So, why were they kicked off of the team if they were so good?  Because of what they did off of the field.  Would you want one of these phenomenal athletes that are being found guilty of rape mentoring your children?  And like I said, his "time" was really a slap on the wrist.  Redemption stories are more for guys like Cam Newton or Anthony Hargrove, not like guys like Vick or Aaron Hernandez (if he ever had the chance).  You don't get redemption for forcing living beings to kill each other, or raping someone, or murdering someone.

 

And I respectfully disagree with your assessment on Vick as a redemption story. And I never said you should exclude someone's character in terms of being a role model. I said your personal opinion of him as a person should have no bearing on how you feel about him as a QB coach. You are intertwining two distinctive measures.

[abw0004 10,110]

8 minutes ago, DAG said:

 

And I respectfully disagree with your assessment on Vick as a redemption story. And I never said you should exclude someone's character in terms of being a role model. I said your personal opinion of him as a person should have no bearing on how you feel about him as a QB coach. You are intertwining two distinctive measures.

I understand the point you are trying to get across, but I think you just negated what you said there.  How can you exclude someone's character when considering them as your (QB) coach?  A coach is to teach, correct?  So as a coach, you teach them what you think is right, and how to do things the way you think is right.  So if your character is skewed, then you are not coaching them the correct way.  It goes back to if you had a son who is playing football, would you trust Aaron Hernandez to teach your son how to correctly block as a tight end?  Or would you trust Darren Sharper to teach him the safety position?  It is more than just talking X's and O's, or how to throw the ball when you have a coach helping you.  The coach has to develop a relationship with the player to get through to him, so they don't always talk football.  I didn't always talk sports with my coaches.  And as a kid (Willis) who said Vick is a role model, Vick can have some of his bad qualities rub off on him when not taking football.

[McLoofus 35,182]

54 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

I won't comment any more because I want to keep my comments more focused on football, and animal welfare is way too touchy of a subject for me, just like environmentalism is.  I can get too fired up on those subjects, and can be political.  I respect your opinions, but this is mine.

I respect that. Just know that some of us who look at Vick more objectively also pull over for turtles. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Question... have any of you read up on Vick as a QB coach?

Vick is actually pursuing a future as a coach and sees himself taking the route of QB coach in the NFL. He is reaching out to these kids to both help them and learn himself.  He's never coaching them alone.  He has his personal QB coach by his side the whole time, coaching him on coaching the kids.

I think he is seeking out 3-star type of guys with potential as a dual-threat, both because there is more to work with, giving him more personal learning potential, and because if one hits, it could really make his name in the coaching ranks.

As for the discussion of him as a role model, I can't speak to that. What I can say is many a kid has been coached by men who are far from being good role models, and all they took from them is coaching, so I don't know that I would be concerned.  I wouldn't want Auburn hiring Vick to be on staff, because that speaks poorly of the university, but if a kid is getting coached up, outside of Auburn, a few days a week, I see no harm.

[triangletiger 1,599]

By most accounts, Pat Dye wasn't a paragon a virtue, but he was a good football coach. Should we hold Michael Vick to a different standard? 

[DAG 33,980]

1 hour ago, abw0004 said:

I understand the point you are trying to get across, but I think you just negated what you said there.  How can you exclude someone's character when considering them as your (QB) coach?  A coach is to teach, correct?  So as a coach, you teach them what you think is right, and how to do things the way you think is right.  So if your character is skewed, then you are not coaching them the correct way.  It goes back to if you had a son who is playing football, would you trust Aaron Hernandez to teach your son how to correctly block as a tight end?  Or would you trust Darren Sharper to teach him the safety position?  It is more than just talking X's and O's, or how to throw the ball when you have a coach helping you.  The coach has to develop a relationship with the player to get through to him, so they don't always talk football.  I didn't always talk sports with my coaches.  And as a kid (Willis) who said Vick is a role model, Vick can have some of his bad qualities rub off on him when not taking football.

 

Well, first of all, let's not make exaggerated points. Both the individuals you have named were sentenced to prison for an extended period of time. One of them murdered a fellow human being. That is in no way within the same realm of Vick, even if you hold an animal's life in the same regard. Another person was raping fellow human beings. Come on man. I am not going to even justify that with a response. My point is you are taking one aspect of an individual's life and projecting it toward their ability to coach. Bobby Petrino is an adulterer. Not a very well-liked human being, but if he ran a QB clinic, I imagine he could get a few quality players to attend. I don't think many people will be asking him for marriage advice. There are people on this forum who believe NS disregarded the health of one of his previous players. If NS were to want one of your kids to attend a secondary camp, are you going to say "No, you can't possibly teach my kid how to play DB, since you aren't teaching them the game of life." If your standard of someone being able to coach is simply completely based on human qualities off the field, you will be hard press to find that person, as most coaches and human beings, in general, are severely flawed. It is a very horrid assumption to think that someone who seeks help from Vick would potentially obtain bad qualities from his previous life. Last response, as we will NOT agree on this.

[AUsince72 11,084]

Don't trust Vick with your dog.

Don't trust Vick with your stash.

Don't trust Vick with your car.

Don't trust Vick with your girl.

Don't trust Vick with your QB.

None of those are related but they're all still good advice.

Those who lived in Atlanta in the early 2K's know what I'm talking about...

He was outstanding at Va. Tech but he was mediocre, at best, in the NFL and not a good "student" of the position.  In my opinion, anyone who looks at his play objectively sees tremendous natural talent but he never took to coaching and he never grew.  That's not the sign of a good teacher.