Franken Resigns

[AUDub 11,147]

1 minute ago, SaltyTiger said:

Ben, he has not resigned yet, officially. He may have a change of heart

He's as good as gone. Same with Franks. 

[SaltyTiger 7,793]

Just now, Bigbens42 said:

He's as good as gone. Same with Franks. 

Why not say it today and leave.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

12 hours ago, Bigbens42 said:

That's the charitable interpretation. Gut instinct tells me he compared turkey basters and "the old fashioned way" as part of his sales pitch

I listened to another woman who worked for Representative Franks and she was saying that she didn't think that he was making overtures for assistance from one of the two women to act as a surrogate, but she did say, and I agree, that the discussion was completely inappropriate.  She further explained that Congressman Franks and his wife were struggling desperately to have a baby.

Did Congressman Frank's overstep his bounds ?  Definitely.  Do his actions even compare with those of Conyers, Franken, etc. ?  No, definitely not.

[AUDub 11,147]

16 minutes ago, Elephant Tipper said:

I listened to another woman who worked for Representative Franks and she was saying that she didn't think that he was making overtures for assistance from one of the two women to act as a surrogate, but she did say, and I agree, that the discussion was completely inappropriate.  She further explained that Congressman Franks and his wife were struggling desperately to have a baby.

Did Congressman Frank's overstep his bounds ?  Definitely.  Do his actions even compare with those of Conyers, Franken, etc. ?  No, definitely not.

He fessed up on his resignation letter. 

I'm not so sure it needs to be that much worse. This is a level of messed up you don't typically encounter. You don't have to be motivated by sexual attraction to sexually harass someone. And sexual reproduction is kind of the definition of sexual.

Give it the most generous reading you can possibly give. He approached his employees and asked them if he could have his genetic material inserted through their vaginas and into their uterus. Then they would spend the next 9 months growing his baby, giving their nutrients, protection etc. to it. Spending every day of their lives for 9 months with his baby growing inside them. Then they'd go through labor and give birth, either by pushing his baby out of their vagina or by a doctor cutting through their abdominal cavity. Either way, their bodies would be permanently altered. Then he's asking them to hand the baby over to him.

Then the women had to get back to work. Because this happened in the workplace.

There's all the stuff that comes along with this too. Did he tell them he wouldn't fire them if they said no? Because if he didn't, then the women were worried about that. And that smacks of quid pro quo harassment, which is a huge deal. If he DID, then he acknowledged the power differential. And there's really no way to say "You can say no. I promise I won't fire you or treat you differently," without introducing the idea that this was something you thought about.

Knowing your baby is inside of someone else, having someone's baby inside you, is a particular type of intimacy that is, in some ways, more fraught than copulation. There's an ownership even the most most respectful couples have to battle when they go the surrogacy route. And he's demonstrated that he's not capable of understanding boundaries, because these women had to listen to this pitch and then go back to working for him.

And since he was employing them, there are issues with the idea that he would be remunerating someone for a baby, which is highly illegal. If one of his employees had agreed, then it's highly likely he would have been forced to fire them. Which is yet another issue.

Maybe there's more to the story, but I think it's bad enough if he just asked to have an embryo implanted.

[Elephant Tipper 430]

33 minutes ago, Bigbens42 said:

He fessed up on his resignation letter. 

[EDIT]

Maybe there's more to the story, but I think it's bad enough if he just asked to have an embryo implanted.

Here is Franks' resignation statement: https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/07/politics/trent-franks-leaving-congress-statement/index.html

Congressman Franks states the opposite of what you are saying.  He didn't approach either of the women to provide surrogacy.  Here is an excerpt:

"Given the nature of numerous allegations and reports across America in recent weeks, I want to first make one thing completely clear. I have absolutely never physically intimidated, coerced, or had, or attempted to have, any sexual contact with any member of my congressional staff.

"However, I do want to take full and personal responsibility for the ways I have broached a topic that, unbeknownst to me until very recently, made certain individuals uncomfortable. And so, I want to shed light on how those conversations came about."

 

Congressman Franks says that it was an uncomfortable discussion(s).  He didn't grab any women by the breasts, butt, thigh.  He didn't walk around in his underwear in the presence of women.  He didn't molest any single woman or ask them to perform sexual favors.  Congressman Franks spoke unwisely.  Since Congressman Franks has resigned I think the women should speak to the matter for clarification but I doubt that will happen.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

18 hours ago, Bigbens42 said:

Well, for one, I live here. For another, yeah, **** anyone that thinks he should remain in office after this pattern of predatory behavior has been revealed.

I’m not sure if there are any accusations against Moore since modern marriage laws/laws of consent were passed, but I do know there were accusations stemming from a time when marriage laws were very different. A 14 year old could marry a man in his thirty’s. I think that in 1962, a 50 year old could marry a 14 year old legally. Whether or not you agree with it, I don’t think it makes him a predator in view of permissive laws during that day. Sure, in hindsight it doesn’t look good in light of modern societal views. 

However, it doesn’t equate to a thirty year old preying on a teenager in 2017.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

18 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Why not say it today and leave.

Because  Franken equates himself to Moore in regards to culpability. Meaning to him, both guys are equally guilty (which at this point would be an erroneous claim in light of what’s actually known). Therefore, if Moore gets elected, Franken will rationalize that he shouldn’t have to resign after all. 

[AUDub 11,147]

4 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

I’m not sure if there are any accusations against Moore since modern marriage laws/laws of consent were passed, but I do know there were accusations stemming from a time when marriage laws were very different. A 14 year old could marry a man in his thirty’s. I think that in 1962, a 50 year old could marry a 14 year old legally. Whether or not you agree with it, I don’t think it makes him a predator in view of permissive laws during that day. Sure, in hindsight it doesn’t look good in light of modern societal views. 

However, it doesn’t equate to a thirty year old preying on a teenager in 2017.

Age of consent in Bama was 16 at the time.

On the marriage thing, have I got news for you. My 12 year old daughter could technically get married within the next two years, legally, in this state.

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/08/child_marriage_is_still_legal.html

 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

On 12/8/2017 at 3:32 PM, Bigbens42 said:

Age of consent in Bama was 16 at the time.

On the marriage thing, have I got news for you. My 12 year old daughter could technically get married within the next two years, legally, in this state.

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/08/child_marriage_is_still_legal.html

 

Ah, thanks. I'm not familiar with minor emancipation - though I know the tidbits regarding ages of consent and whatnot historically varied from state to state 

[Elephant Tipper 430]

On 12/7/2017 at 6:05 PM, Bigbens42 said:

End of the session, I imagine. Franks is doing the same thing. 

I suppose you meant the end of the 2020 session.

“I am announcing that in the coming weeks I will be resigning as a member of the United States Senate,” Franken said. “There is a big part of me that will always regret having to walk away from this job with so much work left to be done.”

Franken's decision not to set a date for his resignation is rare and may even be unprecedented in Senate history, said political historian Robert David Johnson with Brooklyn College. But because he doesn't have a date set, it means he doesn't have to resign. "The date is key,” Johnson said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/12/18/could-al-franken-un-resign-its-possible/?utm_term=.8813bd624c78