corchjay

Rank the Assistants

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Rank the coaches in your opinion.

 

1. Garner - recruiting and development takes a back seat to no on on staff or across the country

2. Steele - His reputation is sterling and his scheme is solid.  Good recruiter.  Only complaint from me is not being more aggressive when teams start moving the ball sometimes.

3. Horton - Solid recruiting.  Production from his position is incredible and over the past 10-12 years his players are like a who's who for SEC running backs.  Some has to do with scheme.

4. Brown - Liability on the recruiting end but development is off the charts.  Carlton struggled in his sophomore year and becomes an All-American a year later under Brown.

5. Lindsay - Good recruiter good play caller good scheme.  It's hard to mesh 2 schemes together but he did a good job year 1.  It will get better also.  Want to see his QB development.

6. Grimes - Good solid OL coach.  Average recuiter

7. T-Will - Linebackers continue to improve.  Recruiting is improving I think.  Love the anticipation the LBs are playing with now.  Getting help from Steele is good for him

8. Porter - Good recruiter.  Still waiting on results.

9. Burns - Average recruiter.  Average WR coach.  Project coach.  Seems to have taken a step this past year.  

10. Woodson - TBD for me.  I don't know enough or seen enough yet.  Hopefully he can pick up a few things from Brown.  

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I stopped reading the title of this thread about half way through assistants. Thought it was a TOTALLY different thread.

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I pretty much agree with your ranking. Some observations:

Brown:  If I had to pick one coach whose position outperformed the most this year, it would be Brown. We played the ball as well as I’ve seen in quite a while. 

T Will: our LBs are in much better position to make plays under him than our previous few LB coaches. They play hard and with discipline like he did as a player. I also like him as a recruiter, but I am concerned about LB depth next season. I only saw KB and CW on special teams, but I wasn’t impressed with their speed. This year, Marsh is already slated for surgery, and ZM weighs 200 pounds. I’m eager to see if T Will can continue to develop these guys. I believe he can. 

Burns: huge step forward as a recruiter this year. I actually believe he is underrated as a coach. I feel like separation issues are more of a scheme thing than a skill thing. Time will tell. 

Woodson: It’s going to be a simple assessment for me. Mississippi is loaded with high school talent this year, OM is on probation, and MSU has a new staff and likely rebuilding. He needs to make some quick impact in recruiting to win me over. 

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Still not sure what to think about Booo urns. I just know what is asked of him from CL and Gus. I don't know if routes run is a responsibility that they allow him to create and develop. At the moment I think he's in charge of blocking assignments and does a good job at it. Getting separation, I believe, is more on the player than the coach. I...I just don't know what to think. I need more variables before I can place the blame.

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24 minutes ago, auburn4ever said:

IMO, Horton, Brown and Burns needs to a replaced.

Who would you hire to replace them? I personally wouldn't touch the defensive staff. 

 

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12 minutes ago, gr82be said:

Who would you hire to replace them? I personally wouldn't touch the defensive staff. 

 

Tracy Rocker for all three

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6 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Tracy Rocker for all three

He's big enough to be 3 people 

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45 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Tracy Rocker for all three

And hire Tuberville back for defensive analyst. Can't leave him out. 

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2 hours ago, gr82be said:

And hire Tuberville back for defensive analyst. Can't leave him out. 

And rehire Jay Jacobs so you can fire him again.

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Back to your original post... I agree with most everything you said, to a point. The problem is, we can only guess the level of control any of these guys have on any aspect of the game. For instance, did Kodi rock the recruiting circuit this year, or was someone else closing those deals? Are the improvements we are seeing at linebacker Williams or Steele? Is the improvement at receiver Kodi or Chip, and the same question about the issues at receiver? Whose fault is the special teams (besides Gus for trying the coach by committee approach)? Does Porter basically just coach Cox, or does he have more to do on the field? The only four coaches that I am certain have a significant positive impact are Steele, Garner, Horton, and Brown. I think the others do too, but I can't, for certain, say in what way.

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I think rankings are subjective to what you value the most from coaches.

Obviously as you and most others know by now I place a higher premium on recruiting than anything else. Great recruiting makes coaching easier. Acquiring the most talent is the name of the game. I see you put more value on actual coaching and that is perfectly fine! Always good to have different opinions.

Horton I think gets overrated as a coach because of the position he coaches.  He has a great rep because all we see every year is 1k yard back after 1k yard back. I think a lot of the RB success is due to Gus. Yes he is the head coach but to me He is the best RB coach in college imo. I would switch Porter to RB coach so we recruit the position elite instead of just really good. I just do not value Grimes and Brown that much. Excellent coaches but liabilities on the trail. They are guys who would excel at ohio state, usc, texas more where it does not matter who the coach is they are going to recruit at a elite level so you can afford to absorb guys who at a lesser school would not be able to pull in the talent. At Auburn since we are not the built in school and have the advantages of our fellow brand name schools  we need the best recruiters we can get and cannot not afford 1 grimes/brown level of recruiter let alone 2 of them. Brown and Grimes are stop gap guys because once the talent graduates or goes to the NFL early and it is not re stocked then what are they good for? Burns is getting a lot better as a recruiter. No opinion of him as a coach yet because Gus just does not let our WR's shine as much with how much we run the ball. I just hate the narrative O Burns is automatically a better coach than my boy D Craig. When the reality is we have thrown the ball more since Kodi became WR's coach so yah the optics of it look like he is. 

SIGHHHHHHHHHHHHH Porter that low?!?! REALLY??????????? lol. MAN we doing this again? OK!!!!!! Let me go get my gloves  I am ready!!! This is what round 3 or 4 about porter I see. T Will is criminally low. I honestly hate your list haha. Might as well just rip the band aid off. LOVE garner being one!!! so glad to see that man get his due love. WOOOOOO!!!! I will end on a high and positive note.

haha OK! that was fun! till next time. LETS GOOOO!!!!!

Edited by GwillMac6
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8 hours ago, GwillMac6 said:

Horton I think gets overrated as a coach because of the position he coaches.  He has a great rep because all we see every year is 1k yard back after 1k yard back. I think a lot of the RB success is due to Gus. Yes he is the head coach but to me He is the best RB coach in college imo.

While I don't disagree that Gus's offensive scheme plays into the hands of a great running game, Horton has had success with and without Gus. I also can't name another running backs coach who can develop a 1000 yard rusher every year even if all he's got to work with is a 4th string guy who was never expected to be more than a mop-up player when he was recruited. I would be willing to bet that if you asked Peyton Barber as he suits up for his next NFL game, he'd say Horton is one of the best coaches we've got.

Also, don't forget that, early on when we were scoring top 10 classes, Horton was our recruiting coordinator. That's part of why Gus wanted him, because he was known for his recruiting as well as coaching. I would argue that taking that title away from him and giving it to Porter may have actually hurt our recruiting.

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I really think Kodi deserves way more credit than he gets.  He is recruiting really, really well.  We need to remember all of the other schools are trying to recruit negatively against him saying he is too young and can't coach, but that isn't slowing down his momentum.  Not to mention, our receivers actually learned how to catch the ball under him.  Kodi has already secured 2019 4* WR Pickens as well so this was not just a flash in the pan.  Our route trees have also improved in how these guys cut and become more consistent in their routes/lanes.

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34 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

While I don't disagree that Gus's offensive scheme plays into the hands of a great running game, Horton has had success with and without Gus. I also can't name another running backs coach who can develop a 1000 yard rusher every year even if all he's got to work with is a 4th string guy who was never expected to be more than a mop-up player when he was recruited. I would be willing to bet that if you asked Peyton Barber as he suits up for his next NFL game, he'd say Horton is one of the best coaches we've got.

Also, don't forget that, early on when we were scoring top 10 classes, Horton was our recruiting coordinator. That's part of why Gus wanted him, because he was known for his recruiting as well as coaching. I would argue that taking that title away from him and giving it to Porter may have actually hurt our recruiting.

Wasn't Garner the Recruiting Coordinator?

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Put me on the "not impressed with Horton" list. KJ had something like the 14th highest YPC among SEC backs with over 100 carries. That whole Leveon Bell thing he did this season? He taught himself. Gus's backs get TONS of carries to get to that 1,000 yard mark. 

Recruiting? I mean, we do good, but how are we doing such a great job of developing and producing and not getting the 5* guys? We've got the best run game in college ball and we can't get Master Teague, when there isn't a single other big name RB on campus or in his class? I'm on record to ad nauseam-level as loving the 2 guys we got, but how are our rivals getting at least one 5* RB every single cycle and we've only had 3 since 2009-10? And none of them gave us a full season of production since 2011, and even he left after his sophomore year. 

Kerryon Johnson and Tre Mason had great careers at Auburn. Barber and CAP pretty much gave us a year each. It's been good. It hasn't been a phenomenon. And, much like a 20 point lead, it seems like we could be taking more advantage of what we've got. 

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Just now, auburnphan said:

Wasn't Garner the Recruiting Coordinator?

Yes. In fact, at one time they were both listed on the Auburn website as recruiting coordinator at the same time. When they staff was first brought together, Horton was hired partially to be the recruiting coordinator, as he was at Arkansas when we hired him away. Horton's official Auburn bio lists him as recruiting coordinator for 2015-16. Garners doesn't list him as having that title (though it mentions that he did at Georgia) but I know he did.

Sometimes, I honestly think Gus throws that title around as a way to justify raises or something.

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25 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Yes. In fact, at one time they were both listed on the Auburn website as recruiting coordinator at the same time. When they staff was first brought together, Horton was hired partially to be the recruiting coordinator, as he was at Arkansas when we hired him away. Horton's official Auburn bio lists him as recruiting coordinator for 2015-16. Garners doesn't list him as having that title (though it mentions that he did at Georgia) but I know he did.

Sometimes, I honestly think Gus throws that title around as a way to justify raises or something.

I think you might be right. "Co-OC", "Assistant HC"... we've had a few of them. 

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7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

And none of them gave us a full season of production since 2011, and even he left after his sophomore year. 

I think you answered your own question. I guarantee you every coach we recruit against is shoving the injuries, short tenures, and lack of high draft positions for our backs down the throats of every recruit we are competing for.

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8 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I think you answered your own question. I guarantee you every coach we recruit against is shoving the injuries, short tenures, and lack of high draft positions for our backs down the throats of every recruit we are competing for.

I mean, I guess one could sell it as a chicken or egg thing, but that's not my opinion. 

And while it would be cute for me to say that our chicken has laid an egg, that wouldn't be accurate. I don't mean to say that we're doing badly. Probably another case of doing better than everyone except the SEC teams we play in November.

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Basically I rank them based on how their position group is developing and performing.  Of course, this is fluid... 

To me, recruiting is just a different skill & since I'm no recruitnik I can only go by what those "in the know" say.

With that said, I feel the entire defensive staff is in the upper half right now.  Steele has earned top dog status in my mind as his side of the ball has maintained a very high level and actually improved upon what Boom started.

Williams is next as I think development in the LB corp has been the most impressive improvement over the previous few years (yes, recruiting helps immensely).  Garner may be "2b" as he's maintained a high level for years now and the DL is now in reload mode.

The DB's have been fantastic for the most part but as I was (am) always a "big ugly" and don't get speed guys :angry: I'll say they must be doing well but could probably produce more TO's.

I'll be a smartass here and say Gus is pretty much the entire staff on offense. :beer2:

But seriously, I believe the reaquiring of Grimes might make him #1 on Offense.  QB & WR's so often underachieved in 2017 (IMO) and RB's just weren't utilized outside of running KJ into the dirt.  Is that Lindsey/Burns/Horton's fault or are they handcuffed? Whoever's familiar with me knows my opinion on that....  So the O staff gets "Incomplete".

Special Teams.... Do we have a coach? 

Edited by AUsince72
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8 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Put me on the "not impressed with Horton" list. KJ had something like the 14th highest YPC among SEC backs with over 100 carries. That whole Leveon Bell thing he did this season? He taught himself. Gus's backs get TONS of carries to get to that 1,000 yard mark. 

Recruiting? I mean, we do good, but how are we doing such a great job of developing and producing and not getting the 5* guys? We've got the best run game in college ball and we can't get Master Teague, when there isn't a single other big name RB on campus or in his class? I'm on record to ad nauseam-level as loving the 2 guys we got, but how are our rivals getting at least one 5* RB every single cycle and we've only had 3 since 2009-10? And none of them gave us a full season of production since 2011, and even he left after his sophomore year. 

Kerryon Johnson and Tre Mason had great careers at Auburn. Barber and CAP pretty much gave us a year each. It's been good. It hasn't been a phenomenon. And, much like a 20 point lead, it seems like we could be taking more advantage of what we've got. 

Yeah I was thinking , didn’t K.J.  have well over 300 carries last season? He is very talented but when you get those many opportunities , you should be able to get over 1k yards. It’s like RW average close to 30 points but he is taking damn near 25-30 shots a game , not including the free throws. You better average that. 

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3 hours ago, DAG said:

Yeah I was thinking , didn’t K.J.  have well over 300 carries last season? He is very talented but when you get those many opportunities , you should be able to get over 1k yards. It’s like RW average close to 30 points but he is taking damn near 25-30 shots a game , not including the free throws. You better average that. 

Had 182 carries in 2016

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/kerryon-johnson-1.html

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