Chances of a new Offensive Game Plan

[BJCrawford 1,568]

So how much is on Gus that his QB turned it over three times in the Tennessee game? (Real question and not a defense of malzahn). I noticed Peterson benched his QB in their last game (they lost) and his backup threw a pick six.  How does one tell? Did smart coach bad against LSU or was it a poor execution night?   I’m thinking the answer is somewhere in between. Just discussing and not bashing or defending anyone.

[DAG 33,980]

17 minutes ago, BJCrawford said:

So how much is on Gus that his QB turned it over three times in the Tennessee game? (Real question and not a defense of malzahn). I noticed Peterson benched his QB in their last game (they lost) and his backup threw a pick six.  How does one tell? Did smart coach bad against LSU or was it a poor execution night?   I’m thinking the answer is somewhere in between. Just discussing and not bashing or defending anyone.

Kirby smart team has shown to consistently plays at a high level, so what do you think? Is 1 game a fair sample size?

[BJCrawford 1,568]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

Kirby smart team has shown to consistently plays at a high level, so what do you think? Is 1 game a fair sample size?

Oh I completely agree. I actually was not putting Smart down.  Im not sure what I’m trying to ask but I’m wondering if we played Tennessee ten times, how many times we would lose. That game really bothered me. It just seems we’ve made so many in game mistakes this year and lots of penalties, which is not characteristic of our past teams . It just feels like a different problem this year. No excuse for it, so that’s not the point. Carry on since I’m not articulating well at all.

[DAG 33,980]

1 hour ago, BJCrawford said:

Oh I completely agree. I actually was not putting Smart down.  Im not sure what I’m trying to ask but I’m wondering if we played Tennessee ten times, how many times we would lose. That game really bothered me. It just seems we’ve made so many in game mistakes this year and lots of penalties, which is not characteristic of our past teams . It just feels like a different problem this year. No excuse for it, so that’s not the point. Carry on since I’m not articulating well at all.

I think the mistakes are amplified due to the fact the boys have to play a near perfect game to get a victory because of the limited ability of the coaching staff. That is just my opinion.

[bigbird 60,512]

5 hours ago, DAG said:

I think the mistakes are amplified due to the fact the boys have to play a near perfect game to get a victory because of the limited ability of the coaching staff. That is just my opinion.

I also think one of the biggest issues, as fans, is that many deluded themselves with regards to the losses on the OL. Also, many got caught up in the JB hype train.  Their preconceived notions on how good we should be were skewed, rightly or not. That led to some unreasonable expectations for the team, especially when we saw the massive struggles the OL had and continue to have.  They weren't mentally prepared to see us struggle so drastically.  I wasn't at first, but after the OL performance vs LSU, I quickly resigned myself to the fact that this year was just going to be pretty bad.

Our OL problems affected every part of the offense. In the run game, we couldn't get a minimal push, we couldn't open a running lane, we couldn't pull without running into each other, we couldn't get to the 2nd level, we couldn't execute a successful double team, hell...we couldn't guarantee we would remain vertical. To be honest, more than a few times it seemed the left side was running a different play than the right side. In the pass game, it was bad, but it actually seemed a little better than our run blocking. That said, we couldn't identify fronts, we couldn't correctly call protections, we couldn't identify  blitzers and certainly couldn't stop it when they came. We struggled with handling the simplest of DL stunts and even worse, we we're seldom in position to do anything even if we did.  Our OT were slow in their drops and getting into their sets. They were usually outside of their cylinder and off balance because of it.  When trying to punch, they would routinely over extend and lunge to try and create contact essentially making them 300+ lbs screen doors. Our RG might as well have had a butterfly net out there. He routinely presented some of the worst displays of OL fundamentals, technique, schematic knowledge, effort, and heart that I've seen...at any level. All of that inconsistency and inability led to a promising QB to seemingly develop PTSD and become an inaccurate skittish shadow of his previous self with a poor internal clock and a hair trigger panic button.

That said, many of the coaching decisions with regards to scheme and personnel have exacerbated a lot of the personnel problems.  For example, eliminating the MoF on passing plays, not having a drop off or hot routes, not using our backs in the passing game, or not developing a comprehensive short passing game to help mitigate the poor pass blocking.  That or continually trying to run IZ or power against TiTe(404) and bear(303) fronts that, by alignment, eliminate our ability to create the necessary blocking angles necessary to effectively run those types of runs. Even more frustrating is the unawareness of who are our playmakers and the inability to create schematic mismatches for them that would create dynamic aspects to an increasingly static and predictable offense.  Seriously, simply run Schwartz on a simple shallow cross from the slot and allow him to match up against a LB.  Advantage AU...big time! Those aspects of Gus' coaching along with the same sense of unpreparedness, predictability, lack of urgency, and stubbornness that has contaminated this program for 6 years continues to choke out a lot of the perennial hope that a new season brings.

JMO.

[OnthePlains 2,014]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

I also think one of the biggest issues, as fans, is that many deluded themselves with regards to the losses on the OL. Also, many got caught up in the JB hype train.  Their preconceived notions on how good we should be were skewed, rightly or not. That led to some unreasonable expectations for the team, especially when we saw the massive struggles the OL had and continue to have.  They weren't mentally prepared to see us struggle so drastically.  I wasn't at first, but after the OL performance vs LSU, I quickly resigned myself to the fact that this year was just going to be pretty bad.

Our OL problems affected every part of the offense. In the run game, we couldn't get a minimal push, we couldn't open a running lane, we couldn't pull without running into each other, we couldn't get to the 2nd level, we couldn't execute a successful double team, hell...we couldn't guarantee we would remain vertical. To be honest, more than a few times it seemed the left side was running a different play than the right side. In the pass game, it was bad, but it actually seemed a little better than our run blocking. That said, we couldn't identify fronts, we couldn't correctly call protections, we couldn't identify  blitzers and certainly couldn't stop it when they came. We struggled with handling the simplest of DL stunts and even worse, we we're seldom in position to do anything even if we did.  Our OT were slow in their drops and getting into their sets. They were usually outside of their cylinder and off balance because of it.  When trying to punch, they would routinely over extend and lunge to try and create contact essentially making them 300+ lbs screen doors. Our RG might as well have had a butterfly net out there. He routinely presented some of the worst displays of OL fundamentals, technique, schematic knowledge, effort, and heart that I've seen...at any level. All of that inconsistency and inability led to a promising QB to seemingly develop PTSD and become an inaccurate skittish shadow of his previous self with a poor internal clock and a hair trigger panic button.

That said, many of the coaching decisions with regards to scheme and personnel have exacerbated a lot of the personnel problems.  For example, eliminating the MoF on passing plays, not having a drop off or hot routes, not using our backs in the passing game, or not developing a comprehensive short passing game to help mitigate the poor pass blocking.  That or continually trying to run IZ or power against TiTe(404) and bear(303) fronts that, by alignment, eliminate our ability to create the necessary blocking angles necessary to effectively run those types of runs. Even more frustrating is the unawareness of who are our playmakers and the inability to create schematic mismatches for them that would create dynamic aspects to an increasingly static and predictable offense.  Seriously, simply run Schwartz on a simple shallow cross from the slot and allow him to match up against a LB.  Advantage AU...big time! Those aspects of Gus' coaching along with the same sense of unpreparedness, predictability, lack of urgency, and stubbornness that has contaminated this program for 6 years continues to choke out a lot of the perennial hope that a new season brings.

JMO.

Thank you bird for really putting into terms us non-coaches can understand why the O line has struggled so mightily....and that last paragraph is a great summary of why so many of us are so disillusioned with Gus. 

[OnthePlains 2,014]

8 hours ago, BJCrawford said:

So how much is on Gus that his QB turned it over three times in the Tennessee game? (Real question and not a defense of malzahn). I noticed Peterson benched his QB in their last game (they lost) and his backup threw a pick six.  How does one tell? Did smart coach bad against LSU or was it a poor execution night?   I’m thinking the answer is somewhere in between. Just discussing and not bashing or defending anyone.

Right or wrong here’s how I look at it and always have regardless of who the coach is...Can Gus control JS’s arm and keep him from making mistakes? No of course not.  Can Gus block for him? No of course not. Can Gus keep Boobee from fumbling? No of course not.  Can he keep WR’s from dropping passes? Nope.  And if we were losing games simply because in that one game just one of these issues occurred then you might chalk that up to just a bad game from a player.  But we are having games where all these issues occur and its happening repeatedly. As bird said better than I can, under Gus our team has repeadtedly looked unprepared and there are never any significant adjustments made to assist with the deficiencies.  And as far as the deficiencies go why do we have such a bad OL 6 years into a coach’s tenure? Why do we not have a stable of top tier RB’s for a run first offense?  And is JS really the best fit for what Gus wants to do?  Does anyone even know anymore what Gus wants to do?  In my opinion in college football especially, the buck always stops with the coaching staff and ultimately the HC.  These are his players.  Its his scheme.  Its his football team that lost to a team that hadn’t won an SEC game since 2016 and hasn’t won one since.  

Just for comparison’s sake...

In their first 6 years...

Coach Dye had a 4 loss or more season 3 times 

Coach Bowden had a 4 loss or more season 3 times 

Coach Tubs lost 4 or more his first 5 season...and we were ready to run him out of town...and tried to before he went on his best run losing a total of 5 games over the next 3 seasons including the 2004 SEC Title and unbeaten season.  

Assuming we don’t run the table, Gus will have had 4 or more losses in 5 of his 6 seasons just like Tubs only with his super season at the beginning instead of the in the middle like Tubs.  Now, some would say well look what Tubs did after that but looking at the inconsistency and the unpreparedness of our football team now does anyone really think next year will be great?  

So, to hopefully answer your question, yes the players shoulder some blame for their individual play, but the buck stops with the HC. I don’t and never did want to see Gus fail and I know there are no guarantees when you hire someone new.  But Gus has done this to himself with his stubborness and lack of preparation. I’ve been off the bus for a good while but how anyone is still on it after the loss to UT is mind boggling.  That loss unfortunately will define the beginning of the end for Gus.  Its only time now. 

[Mike4AU 1,739]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

I also think one of the biggest issues, as fans, is that many deluded themselves with regards to the losses on the OL. Also, many got caught up in the JB hype train.  Their preconceived notions on how good we should be were skewed, rightly or not. That led to some unreasonable expectations for the team, especially when we saw the massive struggles the OL had and continue to have.  They weren't mentally prepared to see us struggle so drastically.  I wasn't at first, but after the OL performance vs LSU, I quickly resigned myself to the fact that this year was just going to be pretty bad.

Our OL problems affected every part of the offense. In the run game, we couldn't get a minimal push, we couldn't open a running lane, we couldn't pull without running into each other, we couldn't get to the 2nd level, we couldn't execute a successful double team, hell...we couldn't guarantee we would remain vertical. To be honest, more than a few times it seemed the left side was running a different play than the right side. In the pass game, it was bad, but it actually seemed a little better than our run blocking. That said, we couldn't identify fronts, we couldn't correctly call protections, we couldn't identify  blitzers and certainly couldn't stop it when they came. We struggled with handling the simplest of DL stunts and even worse, we we're seldom in position to do anything even if we did.  Our OT were slow in their drops and getting into their sets. They were usually outside of their cylinder and off balance because of it.  When trying to punch, they would routinely over extend and lunge to try and create contact essentially making them 300+ lbs screen doors. Our RG might as well have had a butterfly net out there. He routinely presented some of the worst displays of OL fundamentals, technique, schematic knowledge, effort, and heart that I've seen...at any level. All of that inconsistency and inability led to a promising QB to seemingly develop PTSD and become an inaccurate skittish shadow of his previous self with a poor internal clock and a hair trigger panic button.

That said, many of the coaching decisions with regards to scheme and personnel have exacerbated a lot of the personnel problems.  For example, eliminating the MoF on passing plays, not having a drop off or hot routes, not using our backs in the passing game, or not developing a comprehensive short passing game to help mitigate the poor pass blocking.  That or continually trying to run IZ or power against TiTe(404) and bear(303) fronts that, by alignment, eliminate our ability to create the necessary blocking angles necessary to effectively run those types of runs. Even more frustrating is the unawareness of who are our playmakers and the inability to create schematic mismatches for them that would create dynamic aspects to an increasingly static and predictable offense.  Seriously, simply run Schwartz on a simple shallow cross from the slot and allow him to match up against a LB.  Advantage AU...big time! Those aspects of Gus' coaching along with the same sense of unpreparedness, predictability, lack of urgency, and stubbornness that has contaminated this program for 6 years continues to choke out a lot of the perennial hope that a new season brings.

JMO.

The powers to be need to read this post!  Thanks Bird!

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 hours ago, bigbird said:

I also think one of the biggest issues, as fans, is that many deluded themselves with regards to the losses on the OL. Also, many got caught up in the JB hype train. 

Nuh uh u r

[bigbird 60,512]

2 hours ago, McLoofus said:

Nuh uh u r

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I really hate being one of the ones who downplayed the impending OL disaster.

I will say that I still think JB used to be a better coach and that our downgraded talent and experience isn't as severe as it has looked so far this season. 

Put another way, I think our performance should probably have been somewhere between my expectations and reality. 

[bigbird 60,512]

1 hour ago, McLoofus said:

I really hate being one of the ones who downplayed the impending OL disaster.

I will say that I still think JB used to be a better coach and that our downgraded talent and experience isn't as severe as it has looked so far this season. 

Put another way, I think our performance should probably have been somewhere between my expectations and reality. 

I am not sure that our talent deficit on the OL is as large as it seems. The problem seems to be their complete lack of development...that includes the 2 years under hand and the 9 months under Grimes.  It seems, to me, that we have an OL that, while populated by 3rd year players, is essentially 5 tFr with regards to development and they have certainly played that way.  That said, 9 months under Grimes should have eliminated many of the technical and schematic issues. It also should've been enough time to establish effective communication between the 5.

[McLoofus 35,182]

4 minutes ago, bigbird said:

I am not sure that our talent deficit on the OL is as large as it seems. The problem seems to be their complete lack of development...that includes the 2 years under hand and the 9 months under Grimes.  It seems, to me, that we have an OL that, while populated by 3rd year players, is essentially 5 tFr with regards to development and they have certainly played that way.  That said, 9 months under Grimes should have eliminated many of the technical and schematic issues. It also should've been enough time to establish effective communication between the 5.

Exactly. 

I honestly think that something took the piss out of JB. Any number of factors could have done it, individually or collectively. I'm not mad at him. But I think it's clear we need more from an OL coach. 

[Win4AU 4,052]

According to recruiting services it’s definitely not a lack of quality up front if you take that for what it’s worth.  

On another note I could see Auburn coming out of the gates first series with something like a flee flicker long bomb attempt.  Hopefully not the end around kind that takes forever to develop but the traditional Rb handoff pitch back kind.

[bigbird 60,512]

10 minutes ago, Win4AU said:

According to recruiting services it’s definitely not a lack of quality up front if you take that for what it’s worth.  

On another note I could see Auburn coming out of the gates first series with something like a flee flicker long bomb attempt.  Hopefully not the end around kind that takes forever to develop but the traditional Rb handoff pitch back kind.

Oh you know what's coming...

 

[cole256 17,050]

It's getting really in depth here.....but to answer the thread title.....

 

Little to none

[api1957 1,783]

7 hours ago, bigbird said:

I also think one of the biggest issues, as fans, is that many deluded themselves with regards to the losses on the OL. Also, many got caught up in the JB hype train.  Their preconceived notions on how good we should be were skewed, rightly or not. That led to some unreasonable expectations for the team, especially when we saw the massive struggles the OL had and continue to have.  They weren't mentally prepared to see us struggle so drastically.  I wasn't at first, but after the OL performance vs LSU, I quickly resigned myself to the fact that this year was just going to be pretty bad.

Our OL problems affected every part of the offense. In the run game, we couldn't get a minimal push, we couldn't open a running lane, we couldn't pull without running into each other, we couldn't get to the 2nd level, we couldn't execute a successful double team, hell...we couldn't guarantee we would remain vertical. To be honest, more than a few times it seemed the left side was running a different play than the right side. In the pass game, it was bad, but it actually seemed a little better than our run blocking. That said, we couldn't identify fronts, we couldn't correctly call protections, we couldn't identify  blitzers and certainly couldn't stop it when they came. We struggled with handling the simplest of DL stunts and even worse, we we're seldom in position to do anything even if we did.  Our OT were slow in their drops and getting into their sets. They were usually outside of their cylinder and off balance because of it.  When trying to punch, they would routinely over extend and lunge to try and create contact essentially making them 300+ lbs screen doors. Our RG might as well have had a butterfly net out there. He routinely presented some of the worst displays of OL fundamentals, technique, schematic knowledge, effort, and heart that I've seen...at any level. All of that inconsistency and inability led to a promising QB to seemingly develop PTSD and become an inaccurate skittish shadow of his previous self with a poor internal clock and a hair trigger panic button.

That said, many of the coaching decisions with regards to scheme and personnel have exacerbated a lot of the personnel problems.  For example, eliminating the MoF on passing plays, not having a drop off or hot routes, not using our backs in the passing game, or not developing a comprehensive short passing game to help mitigate the poor pass blocking.  That or continually trying to run IZ or power against TiTe(404) and bear(303) fronts that, by alignment, eliminate our ability to create the necessary blocking angles necessary to effectively run those types of runs. Even more frustrating is the unawareness of who are our playmakers and the inability to create schematic mismatches for them that would create dynamic aspects to an increasingly static and predictable offense.  Seriously, simply run Schwartz on a simple shallow cross from the slot and allow him to match up against a LB.  Advantage AU...big time! Those aspects of Gus' coaching along with the same sense of unpreparedness, predictability, lack of urgency, and stubbornness that has contaminated this program for 6 years continues to choke out a lot of the perennial hope that a new season brings.

JMO.

[aubaseball 2,595]

7 hours ago, bigbird said:

I also think one of the biggest issues, as fans, is that many deluded themselves with regards to the losses on the OL. Also, many got caught up in the JB hype train.  Their preconceived notions on how good we should be were skewed, rightly or not. That led to some unreasonable expectations for the team, especially when we saw the massive struggles the OL had and continue to have.  They weren't mentally prepared to see us struggle so drastically.  I wasn't at first, but after the OL performance vs LSU, I quickly resigned myself to the fact that this year was just going to be pretty bad.

Our OL problems affected every part of the offense. In the run game, we couldn't get a minimal push, we couldn't open a running lane, we couldn't pull without running into each other, we couldn't get to the 2nd level, we couldn't execute a successful double team, hell...we couldn't guarantee we would remain vertical. To be honest, more than a few times it seemed the left side was running a different play than the right side. In the pass game, it was bad, but it actually seemed a little better than our run blocking. That said, we couldn't identify fronts, we couldn't correctly call protections, we couldn't identify  blitzers and certainly couldn't stop it when they came. We struggled with handling the simplest of DL stunts and even worse, we we're seldom in position to do anything even if we did.  Our OT were slow in their drops and getting into their sets. They were usually outside of their cylinder and off balance because of it.  When trying to punch, they would routinely over extend and lunge to try and create contact essentially making them 300+ lbs screen doors. Our RG might as well have had a butterfly net out there. He routinely presented some of the worst displays of OL fundamentals, technique, schematic knowledge, effort, and heart that I've seen...at any level. All of that inconsistency and inability led to a promising QB to seemingly develop PTSD and become an inaccurate skittish shadow of his previous self with a poor internal clock and a hair trigger panic button.

That said, many of the coaching decisions with regards to scheme and personnel have exacerbated a lot of the personnel problems.  For example, eliminating the MoF on passing plays, not having a drop off or hot routes, not using our backs in the passing game, or not developing a comprehensive short passing game to help mitigate the poor pass blocking.  That or continually trying to run IZ or power against TiTe(404) and bear(303) fronts that, by alignment, eliminate our ability to create the necessary blocking angles necessary to effectively run those types of runs. Even more frustrating is the unawareness of who are our playmakers and the inability to create schematic mismatches for them that would create dynamic aspects to an increasingly static and predictable offense.  Seriously, simply run Schwartz on a simple shallow cross from the slot and allow him to match up against a LB.  Advantage AU...big time! Those aspects of Gus' coaching along with the same sense of unpreparedness, predictability, lack of urgency, and stubbornness that has contaminated this program for 6 years continues to choke out a lot of the perennial hope that a new season brings.

JMO.

Finally someone speaketh the truth 

[auol72 188]

Have any of you who are taking a whack at JB been to a real full pad practice? If not don't speculate on how he is coaching or how much piss and vinegar he is coaching with.  If you have then i am not sure what you were looking at if you didn't see his fundamental coaching, hand placement, hat placement, steps, etc. Now, i have no idea why this team that played average against Washington has digressed to far below average to downright poor in so many areas but especially those Bird spelled out.  Some of it is for sure asking the impossible by running IZ against those defenses he outlined. It just will not work. Maybe that lost their drive because of that. I don't know and it is the 32million dollar question.

[CR 2,442]

6 hours ago, OnthePlains said:

Those aspects of Gus' coaching along with the same sense of unpreparedness, predictability, lack of urgency, and stubbornness that has contaminated this program for 6 years continues to choke out a lot of the perennial hope that a new season brings.

And the congregation said "Amen."

[jAUSon 2,836]

16 hours ago, bigbird said:

Gus: Scrap the old gameplan. I've got it!  This will blow them away!

Chip: Coach, what is it? What did you find?

Gus:  Alright, so we'll direct snap to Cox...

Chip: You mean the Coxcat?

Gus:  No, no, no...this time we'll have him fake right then, and here's the kicker, he'll spin...counterclockwise.  Man! They'll never see that coming.  Seriously, Jimbo is gonna be some kind of lost. We've got him this time.

It's like you're in those meetings. 

[oracle79 3,569]

Maybe JB's digressing during practice about his past time here is causing his O-line to regress in game performance? (Sorry but it's been driving me crazy in many threads).

[OnthePlains 2,014]

1 hour ago, CR said:

And the congregation said "Amen."

Lol not sure how that quote got attributed to me but it was actually bird’s quote. And it is spot on.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, auol72 said:

Have any of you who are taking a whack at JB been to a real full pad practice? If not don't speculate on how he is coaching or how much piss and vinegar he is coaching with.  If you have then i am not sure what you were looking at if you didn't see his fundamental coaching, hand placement, hat placement, steps, etc. Now, i have no idea why this team that played average against Washington has digressed to far below average to downright poor in so many areas but especially those Bird spelled out.  Some of it is for sure asking the impossible by running IZ against those defenses he outlined. It just will not work. Maybe that lost their drive because of that. I don't know and it is the 32million dollar question.

Almost the entire offensive line has played extremely poorly and got worse from game 1 until now. We are on a message board and I am 100% going to speculate about how he is coaching. 

[DAG 33,980]

2 hours ago, aubaseball said:

Finally someone speaketh the truth 

This has been said very often in smaller pieces before. Big bird just finally took the time out to spell it out in depth. Some of you guys just tend to ignore it due to how you feel about posters.