Is it time for a serious conversation about Gun Control?

[stoic-one 1,543]

You need to shop around more on that .40S&W sir!! Although quality 5.56 is more per round.

Just for the sake of discussion, I just weighed 1,000 rounds of 5.56 in 30 round PMAG magazines.

51.5 pounds, yep, over 50 pounds per thousand, it's sad I had 34 magazines to do that test...

For the record, I don't have a chest rig set up for more than 10 30 round magazines, and I never set it up that way, because it weighs too damn much. A max load out for me is 7 30 round mags, and that is way heavy.

[RunInRed 16,402]

Sadly, bump.

[AURaptor 1,122]

To answer the thread question posed...

Nope.

Gun deaths by the age group of the killer are about half what they were 20 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Homoffendersbyage.svg

[Ouchyfish 67]

So sick of people trying to ban things when stuff like this happens.

How well did banning illegal drugs work?

How well did banning liquor back during prohibition work?

You start banning this, or that and pretty soon we are defenseless against the real criminals. criminals don't fill out 4473's, people. They get their guns just fine. Do you HONESTLY think banning these things will stop crazy people from doing crazy things? No! They will just find new ways to carry out these horrible acts. Then what are you going to do? Ban every single method they use until we are riding bicycles, using crayons and safety scissors, cutting our meat with rocks (if those don't get banned too) because they can't be used to kill people with?

America is a violent country. Those mamby pamby laws that the Europeans/Canadians/etc use just won't work here. They will only tie the hands of the people obeying the law. 47% of households own a gun. What percentage of those households are committing crimes with those guns? I guarandamntee you it isn't anywhere near enough to make a good case for banning these things.

One last thing. I don't trust what governments can do. If our government turns nutso and starts rounding us up, or deciding that not painting heroic pictures of our president (with unlimited terms) on our houses is illegal, how effective will the hippies be at making their case while they're throwing flowers at the guns corralling them up? Sounds crazy, I know, but would anything really surprise you these days? Look what's been done in just the last 12 years in government...

Leave the guns alone...

[autigeremt 6,599]

The Supreme Leader will do as he has always done.....no crisis left unexploited for political gain.

The weapon used is a semi-automatic in the same caliber as the M-16. The .308 I use to hunt with is more "deadly" than the .223 round used by this idiot. I can't use a large clip with my rifle like the one used in this incident, but I could easily modify it. At the end of the day, the gun is not the issue....it's the moron behind the trigger, the blade, or the fertilizer and diesel fuel parked out front. People who want to do harm will do it and they will use whatever they can to obtain their objective.

[leglessdan 1,934]

The Supreme Leader will do as he has always done.....no crisis left unexploited for political gain.

The weapon used is a semi-automatic in the same caliber as the M-16. The .308 I use to hunt with is more "deadly" than the .223 round used by this idiot. I can't use a large clip with my rifle like the one used in this incident, but I could easily modify it. At the end of the day, the gun is not the issue....it's the moron behind the trigger, the blade, or the fertilizer and diesel fuel parked out front. People who want to do harm will do it and they will use whatever they can to obtain their objective.

^^^This

Unfortunately, the media will make it more about gun control instead of people just being CRAZY. Just like when Bob Costas used halftime to exploit the NFL players murder-suicide.

If the push for banning guns is made and upheld it will be Civil War 2.0. IMO.

[TastesLikeChicken 0]

There's an evil cell within humanity, but small.

The members of the evil cell have access to easy weaponery in America.

The Bushmaster .223 found at the scene is a semi automatic weapon, the source says. Two other weapons found were handguns, a Sig-Sauer and a Glock.

The evil cell will ruin handguns for all of us.

[leglessdan 1,934]

There's an evil cell within humanity, but small.

The members of the evil cell have access to easy weaponery in America.

The Bushmaster .223 found at the scene is a semi automatic weapon, the source says. Two other weapons found were handguns, a Sig-Sauer and a Glock.

The evil cell will ruin handguns for all of us.

The Government will never be able to get rid of guns...just like they can't get rid of drugs. It will only end up costing the taxpayers more money for a cause that can never be won. Period.

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

I think a better solution would be to have on duty police at all schools, even elementary schools during school hours. Most of the recent shootings have taken place in "gun free zones".

Also, Connecticut already has strict gun laws.

In 2011, Connecticut was rated the fifth toughest by the pro-gun control Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence on a scorecard which gave points for each restriction the group favors.

http://www.dailynews.com/politics-national/2012/12/connecticut-gun-laws-among-the-toughest-in-the-u-s/

[Weegle777 78]

If guns are taken out of private citizens' hands, there will be tyranny. The best defense against a tyrannical government is a well armed citizenry. Bad idea to take guns away.

[ToomersRevenge 284]

I think a better solution would be to have on duty police at all schools, even elementary schools during school hours. Most of the recent shootings have taken place in "gun free zones".

Also, Connecticut already has strict gun laws.

In 2011, Connecticut was rated the fifth toughest by the pro-gun control Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence on a scorecard which gave points for each restriction the group favors.

http://www.dailynews...est-in-the-u-s/

On duty police at all schools is just not feasible. Especially when you consider that such an event as the one which happened today GENERALLY happens maybe once a decade (though moreso recently it seems). Putting a cop on station at an elementary school in a town which hasn't had something like this happen during its entire existence is just unrealistic.

[leglessdan 1,934]

I think a better solution would be to have on duty police at all schools, even elementary schools during school hours. Most of the recent shootings have taken place in "gun free zones".

Also, Connecticut already has strict gun laws.

In 2011, Connecticut was rated the fifth toughest by the pro-gun control Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence on a scorecard which gave points for each restriction the group favors.

http://www.dailynews...est-in-the-u-s/

On duty police at all schools is just not feasible. Especially when you consider that such an event as the one which happened today GENERALLY happens maybe once a decade (though moreso recently it seems). Putting a cop on station at an elementary school in a town which hasn't had something like this happen during its entire existence is just unrealistic.

Not anymore

[ToomersRevenge 284]

I think a better solution would be to have on duty police at all schools, even elementary schools during school hours. Most of the recent shootings have taken place in "gun free zones".

Also, Connecticut already has strict gun laws.

In 2011, Connecticut was rated the fifth toughest by the pro-gun control Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence on a scorecard which gave points for each restriction the group favors.

http://www.dailynews...est-in-the-u-s/

On duty police at all schools is just not feasible. Especially when you consider that such an event as the one which happened today GENERALLY happens maybe once a decade (though moreso recently it seems). Putting a cop on station at an elementary school in a town which hasn't had something like this happen during its entire existence is just unrealistic.

Not anymore

Even Newtown will only have police on hand for a short while as lip service. Other schools will be on alert for a copycat in the next few weeks, but even that is unlikely.

[Ouchyfish 67]

The kid was up on school procedures (his mom was a teacher?) so how hard would it have been to just waltz in and shoot the on duty officer and then proceed to carry out the act anyways?

[cptau 169]

I heard them refer to this today. A 1927 school attack in michigan using explosives caused the most deaths at a school. 38 children and 6 adults died.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

[augolf1716 21,109]

if true he was one sick person

[aubfaninga 16]

Sto - I enjoyed your post ... thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Let me add, I'm not a 'gun guy' (call me naive or accuse me of possessing a false sense of security, but I've never felt any need to carry one) but I certainly have nothing against those who choose to exercise their 2nd amendment rights. That said, I find it extremely difficult when trying to fathom a reason why any civilian needs access to this kind of weapons arsenal. Automatic assault rifles, unlimited rounds of ammo, etc is where I'd like to learn more about what could be done to limit access.

Appreciate the sentiment Rob. What I would call you is just another of many people I know who have no interest in guns, that's all.

Most ALL non-gun enthusiasts would probably label what I have as an arsenal, and to a point it is, in their mind. To me it's just a collection of tools I use for entertainment and sport.

I'm also not a whack job like this freak.

As to your final points re limiting access:

I too fall in this category. I do not have a interest in guns and if I had it my way all guns would cease to exist. That is in a fantasy world so I will share my thoughts on reality.

People with weapons have taken more lives than they have saved. I don't have any data to back this statement but it would not matter if I did. I do stress that PEOPLE and not the actual weapons are the problem. While I can't understand the need for an arsenal I do believe that people (like stoic-one) have a firm grasp on the value of human life. I don't see any threat from stoic having the right to arm himself in anyway.

The only way that I would support a government ban on any weapons would be if you could show me proof that a person or group planned on using weapons for power, forced control, or material gain.(bully scenario) These school shootings are done by people that view life in a whole different light than I do. They cannot be controlled by any ban or law. Most have broken the most important built in law that animals have, SELF PRESERVATION! Think about that word for a minute... You can't control these people with a human law.

The problem is education period. I am not talking basic math and reading either. I am talking basic morals and learning what it means to have a conscience. This education needs to be taught at home, on television, in school, and even at work. Before some think that I am pushing the religion button now just hear me out. I have suggested that the 10 commandments be taught in schools along with as many laws as any group of atheists can come up with. In fact if you are an atheist please give me a list of moral and ethical codes that I can teach my children. I will gladly welcome the added insight. What is wrong with teaching how to love and protect your neighbor everyday?

If you don't want to go down the religious vortex stop here...

Whether you take the bible literal or believe that it is just a collection of fiction there is no denying that this problem has been on the minds of humans for quite some time. (The story of Cain and Able) If you have ever taken the time to read farther into Genesis you would have read what could have possibly been the second recording of murder in the bible. (The small bit about Lamech and Tubal-Cain) For me, this points to a pattern of flaws that the author wanted to bring to my attention. (which by the way, I do believe the bible to be inspired by our creator) Take a quick qlance at the bloodline of Cain. The author makes it a point to show some of their trades. Now glance at Seths bloodline. There was no mention of specific trades. From the very beginning there is a conflict between man and technology.(for me at least) Maybe Cains ancestor, Lamech, didn't murder someone but which blood line did Enoch come from. Seth or Cain? Now, does this mean that I think shovels and guitars are evil things. NO!!! I believe that these things can be used for evil by the mentally blind. ***Humans need to be mature and educated about raising children before engaging in sex***. Humans need to be mature and educated about how to handle emotions before being left unsupervised. Humans need to be mature and educated if we are going to allow weapons(technology) to be a part of everyday life.

***Maybe Adam and Eve should have waited just a little while longer before doing the tango. Imagine if the first parents would have been a little more educated and mature about how to raise humans. HMMMMMM

[homersapien 11,367]

Sto - I enjoyed your post ... thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Let me add, I'm not a 'gun guy' (call me naive or accuse me of possessing a false sense of security, but I've never felt any need to carry one) but I certainly have nothing against those who choose to exercise their 2nd amendment rights. That said, I find it extremely difficult when trying to fathom a reason why any civilian needs access to this kind of weapons arsenal. Automatic assault rifles, unlimited rounds of ammo, etc is where I'd like to learn more about what could be done to limit access.

Appreciate the sentiment Rob. What I would call you is just another of many people I know who have no interest in guns, that's all.

Most ALL non-gun enthusiasts would probably label what I have as an arsenal, and to a point it is, in their mind. To me it's just a collection of tools I use for entertainment and sport.....

"Tools" designed specifically to kill things are typically called "weapons".

[leglessdan 1,934]

Sto - I enjoyed your post ... thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Let me add, I'm not a 'gun guy' (call me naive or accuse me of possessing a false sense of security, but I've never felt any need to carry one) but I certainly have nothing against those who choose to exercise their 2nd amendment rights. That said, I find it extremely difficult when trying to fathom a reason why any civilian needs access to this kind of weapons arsenal. Automatic assault rifles, unlimited rounds of ammo, etc is where I'd like to learn more about what could be done to limit access.

Appreciate the sentiment Rob. What I would call you is just another of many people I know who have no interest in guns, that's all.

Most ALL non-gun enthusiasts would probably label what I have as an arsenal, and to a point it is, in their mind. To me it's just a collection of tools I use for entertainment and sport.....

"Tools" designed specifically to kill things are typically called "weapons".

People kill people with rope....wanna ban rope too? Hell for that matter people kill people with their hands....should we all just have our hands cut off ? Those are very simple "tools" that can be "weapons" also.

[aubfaninga 16]

"Tools" designed specifically to kill things are typically called "weapons".

People kill people with rope....wanna ban rope too? Hell for that matter people kill people with their hands....should we all just have our hands cut off ? Those are very simple "tools" that can be "weapons" also.

How do stop people from using their hands as weapons?

[Ouchyfish 67]

I saw on Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura that the government has a death ray. We need a ban on death rays.

[homersapien 11,367]

I have suggested that the 10 commandments be taught in schools along with as many laws as any group of atheists can come up with. In fact if you are an atheist please give me a list of moral and ethical codes that I can teach my children. I will gladly welcome the added insight. What is wrong with teaching how to love and protect your neighbor everyday?

If you don't want to go down the religious vortex stop here...

Well, I am certainly not interested in going down the "religious vortex" but I can assure you that human moral standards have evolved naturally as a part of evolution. But I don't want to hijack the thread.

[homersapien 11,367]

Sto - I enjoyed your post ... thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Let me add, I'm not a 'gun guy' (call me naive or accuse me of possessing a false sense of security, but I've never felt any need to carry one) but I certainly have nothing against those who choose to exercise their 2nd amendment rights. That said, I find it extremely difficult when trying to fathom a reason why any civilian needs access to this kind of weapons arsenal. Automatic assault rifles, unlimited rounds of ammo, etc is where I'd like to learn more about what could be done to limit access.

Appreciate the sentiment Rob. What I would call you is just another of many people I know who have no interest in guns, that's all.

Most ALL non-gun enthusiasts would probably label what I have as an arsenal, and to a point it is, in their mind. To me it's just a collection of tools I use for entertainment and sport.....

"Tools" designed specifically to kill things are typically called "weapons".

People kill people with rope....wanna ban rope too? Hell for that matter people kill people with their hands....should we all just have our hands cut off ? Those are very simple "tools" that can be "weapons" also.

Goodness you folks are easy to set off on a random rant. And it's not like I was trying. I wasn't even addressing you.

Regardless, do you specifically disagree with what I said? If not, why did you feel compelled to extrapolate and comment?

[aubfaninga 16]

I have suggested that the 10 commandments be taught in schools along with as many laws as any group of atheists can come up with. In fact if you are an atheist please give me a list of moral and ethical codes that I can teach my children. I will gladly welcome the added insight. What is wrong with teaching how to love and protect your neighbor everyday?

If you don't want to go down the religious vortex stop here...

Well, I am certainly not interested in going down the "religious vortex" but I can assure you that human moral standards have evolved naturally as a part of evolution. But I don't want to hijack the thread.

That's interesting to me. Evolution with a purpose. Very interesting!!!

So the killer was a product of evolution as well. Why do we care anyway? Evolution must run it's course for us to survive. Which I find to be an interesting thought as well. The best way to survive would have been to not evolve from the simple yet hardy organism we once was. Or still might become!!! I enjoy the evolution vortex as well.

[aubfaninga 16]

I saw on Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura that the government has a death ray. We need a ban on death rays.

Maybe ban Jesse or Tru tv? Let's just ban TV