What if a player ASKED for money but never got it?

[rockfordpi 91]

Does anyone know if a player would/could be ruled ineligible simpy if he, or someone on his belhalf, ASKED for extra benefits if he never actually got any extra benefit.

Do they have to prove that money actually changed hands or simply that someone ASKED for money. The former is much easier to prove than the latter.

[312234 0]

From what I understand, the player has to actually receive the money to be reprimanded.

[auburnfootball08 0]

From what I understand, the player has to actually receive the money to be reprimanded.

This

[45Tiger 0]

really without the money how would you prove it? recorded conversations aside...

[toomexy 0]

According to the original story that came out last thursday, MSU declined to respond to the overtures of paying Cam.  Then it states that MSU turned it over to the SEC and continued to recruit Cam to MSU as it normally would.

So I think money has to exchange hands. 

[45Tiger 0]

thats what I thought too but have since been corrected by other members. I am searching high & low for the rules on this but havent found anything quotable yet.

[rockfordpi 91]

So, assuming only for the sake of argument, even if EVERYTHING that has been reported is true, there is still NO violation unless someone proves that money (or some other benefit) changed hands.

Throughout this ordeal, I have not heard anyone claim to know that money changed hands.

Often times in court, a defendant will file a motion to dismiss which says that "even if everything alleged is true, there is no claim/damages/or legal recourse".  AKA, Failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted.

I know this is FAR from court, but at some point someone is going to have to prove, or at least allege, that money was provided. Though there is lots of inuendo, I have not seen that yet

[savorytiger 182]

Meh, I (and a lot of the nation) would lose a lot of respect for CN and his family if they did ask for it.  It would also cast an extremely bad light at Auburn.  There isn't much of a silver lining in that scenario.

[45Tiger 0]

better question, what if they asked for it and Bond/Rogers actually did receive payment but the Newtons had no idea and never received any of it. I seriously doubt the Newtons asked for anything but I dont doubt for a second these 2 crooks actually scammed the money off a MSU alum with more money than sense.

you can find the answers to this and more in here... http://auburntigers.cstv.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/aub/genrel/auto_pdf/compliance-manual

I just havent found them yet.

[AU1941 6]

EVERY athelete, his brother, momma, daddy and grandparents ask for more than just a scholarship these days.  The large majority of high star athletes aren't coming from prominent well to do families.  They can ASK all they want, doesn't mean they will get a dime.

[AUnChas 14]

According to the original story that came out last thursday, MSU declined to respond to the overtures of paying Cam.  Then it states that MSU turned it over to the SEC and continued to recruit Cam to MSU as it normally would.

So I think money has to exchange hands. 

This has been a lingering Q for me. Why in the world would you continue to recruit a player that just asked for $200k? In addition, you turn it into the SEC, and then, continue to recruit him. That absolutely doesn't make sense on any level.

[wiljam08 0]

I do not work for the compliance office or anything but I am pretty sure that asking for money or having someone who represents you to ask for money is almost just as good as receiving money.  The theory is that representing your services as for hire is the same thing as declaring yourself to be a professional athlete.  Think about when a player declares for the NFL, there is no going back to amature status even if money has not changed hands yet.

[alabamapaper 0]

If the player never received any money, then their must be some other form of proof that they were represented by an agent at their direction. 

[AU1941 6]

According to the original story that came out last thursday, MSU declined to respond to the overtures of paying Cam.  Then it states that MSU turned it over to the SEC and continued to recruit Cam to MSU as it normally would.

So I think money has to exchange hands. 

This has been a lingering Q for me. Why in the world would you continue to recruit a player that just asked for $200k? In addition, you turn it into the SEC, and then, continue to recruit him. That absolutely doesn't make sense on any level.

Well, folks on this board made it sound like neither Cam nor his father had any idea that Cam was being shopped around to MSU.  It was like Roger/Bonds were the dirty dogs that went behind the Newton's back and tried to solicit cash for Cam without the Newton's knowledge.  

Is this still the belief around here?  If so, and this is really what happened, then MSU's continuing to recruit Cam makes better sense.  I mean if the Newton's didn't know that Cam was on the auction block, then there's nothing wrong with MSU/Mullen contining their normal recruitiment of a realy good player.

[AU1941 6]

I do not work for the compliance office or anything but I am pretty sure that asking for money or having someone who represents you to ask for money is almost just as good as receiving money.  The theory is that representing your services as for hire is the same thing as declaring yourself to be a professional athlete.  Think about when a player declares for the NFL, there is no going back to amature status even if money has not changed hands yet.

But I didn't think that Cecil/Cam Newton even knew Rogers or Bonds.  Do they now have a connection to each other?

[savorytiger 182]

It was stated from the start that Cecil knew Rogers.  There's just 0 evidence that anything shady went on there.

[AU1941 6]

It was stated from the start that Cecil knew Rogers.  There's just 0 evidence that anything shady went on there.

Thanks - I'm in a continuous state of confusion with all this.........

And, now after today's headlines/news, I'm just trying to gauge what line the Auburn faithful need to take from a "go forward" basis.

Anyway - WDE! 

[45Tiger 0]

According to the original story that came out last thursday, MSU declined to respond to the overtures of paying Cam.  Then it states that MSU turned it over to the SEC and continued to recruit Cam to MSU as it normally would.

So I think money has to exchange hands. 

This has been a lingering Q for me. Why in the world would you continue to recruit a player that just asked for $200k? In addition, you turn it into the SEC, and then, continue to recruit him. That absolutely doesn't make sense on any level.

Well, folks on this board made it sound like neither Cam nor his father had any idea that Cam was being shopped around to MSU.  It was like Roger/Bonds were the dirty dogs that went behind the Newton's back and tried to solicit cash for Cam without the Newton's knowledge.  

Is this still the belief around here?  If so, and this is really what happened, then MSU's continuing to recruit Cam makes better sense.  I mean if the Newton's didn't know that Cam was on the auction block, then there's nothing wrong with MSU/Mullen contining their normal recruitiment of a realy good player.

thats still my belief. the entire situation makes more sense this way than any other.

[wiljam08 0]

I do not work for the compliance office or anything but I am pretty sure that asking for money or having someone who represents you to ask for money is almost just as good as receiving money.  The theory is that representing your services as for hire is the same thing as declaring yourself to be a professional athlete.  Think about when a player declares for the NFL, there is no going back to amature status even if money has not changed hands yet.

But I didn't think that Cecil/Cam Newton even knew Rogers or Bonds.  Do they now have a connection to each other?

I wasn't trying to implicate that there was a connection.  I was just trying express my understanding of how asking for money can effect your eligibility even if money never changes hands.

[rockfordpi 91]

Meh, I (and a lot of the nation) would lose a lot of respect for CN and his family if they did ask for it.  It would also cast an extremely bad light at Auburn.  There isn't much of a silver lining in that scenario.

I agree with you. My point is that we may never have 100% proof about what happened, it may always be he-said she -said and up to interpretation.

In that case, if the fact there is no proof  that money changed hands is relevant,  then at least we know that innocent people would not be punished as guilty. Our legal system and our nation operates under the premise that it is better for 1000 guilty people to go free than to convict a single innocent person.

If the issue of whether are not money changed hand is the key, then we and the investigators can focus on that and get away from the he -said- she said and we and the rest of the country draw their own conclusions about the character of the Newtons.

If it is not an NCAA violation to ask for money, then the fact that someone did ask for money but never got it  is not a rules question, but instead a Character issue.

That is why my original question is relevant to me.