democrats set to release CIA "torture" report today

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Goodnight folks. I'm out of here for the night soon. Maybe I will dream about doing a little waterboarding of Obama and Feinstein.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

"You are now elected President for 24 hours. You have been told by the CIA that they have a suspect in custody with info about the method and exact time that 3,000 people are to be killed in the next few hours, only he isn't willing to talk. What do you do ? Time is ticking. Tell us what to do Mr. President."

Absurd. Three thousand people? What, the terrorist are holding three thousand people in an undisclosed location? You will never break the mindset of a terrorist within a few hours. Start notifying every policing agency in the world. Don't waste what precious little time you have. Where was this suspect captured? Who are his known associates? Do we know where any of them are? You'd better be thinking, not hoping for the impossible.

On 9/11 2,996 people died. Had one of those hijackers been captured in the 24 hours prior to the event and the event was known to be in motion it might have been prevented. If you couldn't answer those questions you pose, then what would you do ? Remember, you know that the suspect knows the plan. What would you do ? Tick, tick.

"You are now elected President for 24 hours. You have been told by the CIA that they have a suspect in custody with info about the method and exact time that 3,000 people are to be killed in the next few hours, only he isn't willing to talk. What do you do ? Time is ticking. Tell us what to do Mr. President."

Absurd. Three thousand people? What, the terrorist are holding three thousand people in an undisclosed location? You will never break the mindset of a terrorist within a few hours. Start notifying every policing agency in the world. Don't waste what precious little time you have. Where was this suspect captured? Who are his known associates? Do we know where any of them are? You'd better be thinking, not hoping for the impossible.

Yeah...Yeah... I know I gave it more of an answer than it deserved.

No, you didn't give an answer at all. You posed your questions instead of answering the only one I asked.

See, people like you detest what was done to preserve America and with such vehemence that it divides this nation, but when a time-sensitive critical decision has to be made you stall, and you're only responding in the imaginary. What would you do in the real world ? Many patriots were faced with such a dilemma to do their duty to protect us, faithfully, even when Senators and Representatives demean them, even lying that they never knew what was "really being done" when they knew exactly what was being done and asked no questions. God bless them for doing their duty to protect this nation.

You can't be serious. No one could have predicted a death toll for 9/11. You go play secret agent, torture expert. I will sound the alarm and review whatever information we do have.

[TexasTiger 12,974]

TT...I guess I fail to see that.

I understand a father wanting to do what you described. A civilized country never commits the atrocities outlined in this report.

Name some of the atrocities please.

Learn to read.

You're the accuser. What are the crimes ? I bet you don't even know.

Hurry, Google closes at 9 p.m.

I'm not the accuser. The report is the report. Sorry, but your not worth my effort. I suspect you're unpersuadable and irredeemable.

[TexasTiger 12,974]

TT...As I said earlier we now just kill them outright with drones and air strikes, often with collateral damage. And with no chance of interrogation. is that morally better?

There's a place for attacks and a place for interrogation. Interrogation needs to be done by effective interrogators.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Based on what I have heard the subject interrogators were pretty damn effective.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Speaking of reading, this book is a very good read on this subject

"It is part of the general pattern of misguided policy that our country is now geared to an arms economy which was bred in an artificially induced psychosis of war hysteria and nurtured upon an incessant propaganda of fear."

Douglas MacArthur

[AUUSN 823]

DNI Message to the Intelligence Community Workforce on the Release of the SSCI Report

Tuesday, December 09, 2014

December 9, 2014

Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper sent the following message to the entire Intelligence Community workforce earlier this morning.

Today, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence released its report on the detention and interrogation program. In all of my experience in intelligence, I am hard-pressed to recall another report—and the issues surrounding it—as fraught with controversy and passion as this one. Virtually no one who has any familiarity with the report and what it describes is “neutral.” The rebuttal to the majority report issued by the minority on the Committee is but one example of strong alternative views. Proponents of publication ardently believe that the report must be issued to cleanse a stain on the pages of our history, and to ensure that the practices it describes are never repeated. Others, with equal conviction, believe that the report is unfair and biased; fails to account for the immediate impact of the attacks on 9/11—on American citizens and on those in government charged with protecting the country; and will result in greater jeopardy to American citizens, facilities and interests overseas.

The officers who participated in the program believed with certainty that they were engaged in a program devised by our government on behalf of the President that was necessary to protect the nation, that had appropriate legal authorization, and that was sanctioned by at least some in the Congress. But, as President Obama has made clear, some things were done that should not have been done —and which transgressed our values. We recognized this ten years ago and stopped the program as it was originally conducted; even more important, we have since enacted laws, implemented Presidential orders and established internal policies to ensure that such things never happen again.

I don’t believe that any other nation would go to the lengths the United States does to bare its soul, admit mistakes when they are made and learn from those mistakes. Certainly, no one can imagine such an effort by any of the adversaries we face today. In the months leading up to today’s publication, we went through an exhaustive, good-faith dialogue with the Committee to reach a mutual agreement on what could be said publicly about the program, consistent with the enduring need to protect national security. We made unprecedented efforts to enable the release of as much of the Committee’s report as possible.

Now that the report is public, there is certain to be much discussion of its contents—and of the alternative views of the program and the period during which it operated. That discussion will go on, but the critical imperative for all of us who are privileged to work as members of the Intelligence Community is to remain sharply focused on our missions and the work before us. We must sustain our vigilance to deal with the myriad threats and challenges that face the nation, including any that may arise in the coming days as a possible reaction to the report. The women and men of the CIA specifically, and of the Intelligence Community generally, have helped to keep this nation safe for nearly 70 years. That remains our ultimate mission; it reflects the trust that Americans have always placed in us. I have every confidence that we will continue to meet those expectations and honor that sacred trust, just as we have always done.

J

[Strychnine 1,803]

No, you didn't give an answer at all. You posed your questions instead of answering the only one I asked.

See, people like you detest what was done to preserve America and with such vehemence that it divides this nation, but when a time-sensitive critical decision has to be made you stall, and you're only responding in the imaginary. What would you do in the real world ? Many patriots were faced with such a dilemma to do their duty to protect us, faithfully, even when Senators and Representatives demean them, even lying that they never knew what was "really being done" when they knew exactly what was being done and asked no questions. God bless them for doing their duty to protect this nation.

I did answer it, and with a variation of the point you just made. The scenario you posed is one more consistent with a Bond movie villain. In the real world, the answers to most or all of the questions I posed in response to it are present when the President is briefed on the situation and subsequently required to act. The CIA does not call the President and say "3,000 people gonna die in a few hours, we have the guy with the information to stop it but he won't talk, what do we do? We'll hang up and listen..." The only thing a President could say to that is: "Do something! Do anything! Do everything!" It's simply not an actionable scenario.

That is not stalling, that is responding to a completely absurd scenario with a request for more information. You can't give me nothing more than a one line synopsis of the entire movie and then expect me to make decisions based on how the plot unfolds, without actually being involved in the plot unfolding. As presented: if that one person you have in custody is literally all you've got, and he's part of it, then within that window their plan is most likely going to succeed unless foiled by chance. In the real world, time-sensitive critical decisions have more to go on than that.

[autigeremt 6,660]

TT....in the past I would agree with you. But the world has changed and in today's world the enemy doesn't understand being civil and we can't treat them in the civil manner of the past. JMHO.

We are who we are. If we let them change us, haven't they won?

This country is changing so they are winning. That's why Osama did what he did. His long term strategy is working.....dead or not.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

TT....in the past I would agree with you. But the world has changed and in today's world the enemy doesn't understand being civil and we can't treat them in the civil manner of the past. JMHO.

We are who we are. If we let them change us, haven't they won?

This country is changing so they are winning. That's why Osama did what he did. His long term strategy is working.....dead or not.

I agree. The goal of terrorism is not simply killing. When we allow fear to fundamentally change us, that is when the terrorist actually achieve their goal.

[autigeremt 6,660]

What's the thought on this administrations use of rendition? Drone strikes on foreign soil that causes collateral loss of life?

We fight an enemy that doesn't adhere to the Geneva Convention. While that's no reason to torture, it's something to think about.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Based on what I have heard the subject interrogators were pretty damn effective.

I'm on page 120 of the report. So far, it sounds as though the CIA couldn't grab their own asses with both hands. They can however, force pureed food up the ass of a captive. Is that what you consider "pretty damned effective"?

[autigeremt 6,660]

We do realize this report is one sided...correct? I'm not sure I'd give it 100% on the trustworthy scale. I'll accept it as information....

[icanthearyou 4,463]

What's the thought on this administrations use of rendition? Drone strikes on foreign soil that causes collateral loss of life?

We fight an enemy that doesn't adhere to the Geneva Convention. While that's no reason to torture, it's something to think about.

Too deep for me. I wouldn't know where to begin. All I can say is, we have to understand the difference between errors in judgement and a compromise of our principles. We have to somehow stop using our mistakes as political fodder.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

We do realize this report is one sided...correct? I'm not sure I'd give it 100% on the trustworthy scale. I'll accept it as information....

Every member of the Senate Subcommittee on Intelligence is a Democrat?

[quietfan 233]

http://www.nbcnews.c...ohammed-n265016

The CIA waterboarded its gold-star detainee, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, 183 times in a single month to force him to reveal potential further strikes, according to the Senate's 500-page report Tuesday on CIA interrogation techniques. The campaign — which also included tactics with such evocative names as "rectal rehydration" and "attention grab" — was largely fruitless and took place while the CIA plotted to block FBI access to Mohammed, the report says.

Mohammed, referred to as "KSM" throughout the report, was captured on March 1, 2003, and was soon interrogated at CIA-operated bases overseas code-named Blue and Cobalt.

Less than two hours after his capture, the chief of interrogations sent an email to CIA headquarters with the subject line "Let's roll with the new guy," requesting permission to "press [Mohammed] for threat info right away." CIA headquarters authorized what it called "enhanced interrogation techniques" — and what critics call "torture" — the same day, according to the report, and the "enhanced" procedures were put into use within minutes of Mohammed's arrival at Cobalt.

Within just three or four days, the on-site medical officer concluded that waterboarding was ineffective, according to the report, because Mohammed, knowing interrogators couldn't afford to let him die, "figured out a way to deal" with it — an assessment that even some of Mohammed's interrogators quickly reached.

One interrogator reported informing superiors that the harsh techniques weren't working and complained that "I'm ostracized whenever I suggest [Mohammed and another detainee] did not tell us everything. How dare I think KSM was holding back."

And Mohammed wasn't just holding back, according to the report. He was outright lying, sending U.S. operatives on wild goose chases. Dozens of times, the report describes information the CIA promoted as "critical" as having been "fabricated," "unfounded" or "not supported by internal CIA records."

Within two weeks, the deputy chief of the CIA's interrogation program concluded that the waterboarding of Mohammed "has proven ineffective" and that "the potential for physical harm is far greater with the waterboard than with the other techniques, bringing into question the issue of risk vs. gain," according to the Senate report.

"We seem to have lost ground," and as a result, the CIA should reconsider whether waterboarding "may poison the well," the deputy chief is quoted as having written. But, the report says, "despite these reservations and assessments, the waterboarding of KSM continued for another 10 days."

Along with the waterboarding, Mohammed was subjected to days of standing sleep deprivation, slapping and "stress positions," the report says. And it says that several times he underwent an emergency medical procedure known as "rectal rehydration," or proctolysis, which standard medical references describe as a way to quickly replace fluids in a patient who is in shock or unconscious. The report matter-of-factly notes that such treatment was "medically unnecessary" for Mohammed, whom it describes as having been doused with, submerged in or force-fed water hundreds of times. After one session, the medical officer present reported that Mohammed's gastric contents were "so diluted by water" that Mohammed was in danger of water intoxication. The medical officer later wrote that "in the new technique we are basically doing a series of near drownings."

In another section, the Senate report also discloses that less than two months after Mohammed was captured, FBI Director Robert Mueller sought bureau access to Mohammed "to better understand CIA reporting indicating threats to U.S.cities." According to the report, however, the CIA "successfully formulated" an argument that delayed the FBI's access to Mohammed until he was transferred to the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba — a transfer that didn't take place for 3½ more years.

The report concluded that the maneuvering to shield Mohammed and other high-value detainees was part of a CIA campaign to actively impede the national security missions not only of the FBI, but also of President George W. Bush, Congress, the State Department, the office of the director of national intelligence and the CIA's own inspector general. The report doesn't provide an explicit reason for the alleged subterfuge, but it says that as early as 2001, CIA attorneys were working on legal arguments "to avoid prosecution of U.S. officials who tortured to obtain information that saved many lives."

So, according to this report:

1. KSM was water boarded 183 times in one month. Do you realize that averages 6 times a day? And that is after the medical officer on site determined it was ineffectual within 2-3 days, and the deputy chief of the whole CIA interrogation program said it wasn't achieving anything after two weeks. Throw in sleep deprivation, slapping, "stress positions" and "rectal rehydration" when he was so full of water he was in danger of death by water intoxication. Don't tell me "no one was tortured"!!

2. The "enhanced interrogation techniques" were approved on the day of his capture and began within minutes of arriving at the Cobalt facility. No thought of using non-abusive, psychology-based interrogation first? Just "let's torture him", before even finding out what information might be obtained by less abusive methods? If there was ever a chance he might cooperate peacefully, I imagine it ended the first time they struck him or shoved a hose up his rear end!

3. It didn't work, but did waste U.S. time and resources: "And Mohammed wasn't just holding back, according to the report. He was outright lying, sending U.S. operatives on wild goose chases. Dozens of times, the report describes information the CIA promoted as "critical" as having been "fabricated," "unfounded" or "not supported by internal CIA records."

4. Since when is it legal for the CIA to withhold information from or actively impede the President, the Congress, the State Department, the office of the director of national intelligence, the CIA Inspector General, and the FBI?

Yes, interpretation of the facts can be spun one way or another. But the facts themselves remain.

[AUUSN 823]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfaa1rWUgsE

[AUUSN 823]

Ex-leader: Poland agreed to CIA site, not torture

WARSAW, Poland (AP) - Former Polish President Aleksander Kwasniewski says during his term Poland offered the CIA a site for a secret prison but did not authorize the harsh treatment of inmates.

His comments Wednesday were the first time that a Polish leader has admitted the country hosted a secret CIA site. Reports say it operated from December 2002 until the fall of 2003. Kwasniewski was in power from 1995-2005.

Kwasniewski was reacting to a published U.S. Senate report condemning CIA practices at secret prisons. It did not identify the host countries.

Kwasniewski said the activity in Poland was terminated under pressure from Poland's leaders. He gave no dates for the site's operation.

Until now, Polish leaders at the time have denied the site's existence, but their successors in 2008 ordered a probe.

[cooltigger21 0]

http://www.nbcnews.c...ohammed-n265016

The CIA waterboarded its gold-star detainee, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, 183 times in a single month to force him to reveal potential further strikes, according to the Senate's 500-page report Tuesday on CIA interrogation techniques. The campaign — which also included tactics with such evocative names as "rectal rehydration" and "attention grab" — was largely fruitless and took place while the CIA plotted to block FBI access to Mohammed, the report says.

Mohammed, referred to as "KSM" throughout the report, was captured on March 1, 2003, and was soon interrogated at CIA-operated bases overseas code-named Blue and Cobalt.

Less than two hours after his capture, the chief of interrogations sent an email to CIA headquarters with the subject line "Let's roll with the new guy," requesting permission to "press [Mohammed] for threat info right away." CIA headquarters authorized what it called "enhanced interrogation techniques" — and what critics call "torture" — the same day, according to the report, and the "enhanced" procedures were put into use within minutes of Mohammed's arrival at Cobalt.

Within just three or four days, the on-site medical officer concluded that waterboarding was ineffective, according to the report, because Mohammed, knowing interrogators couldn't afford to let him die, "figured out a way to deal" with it — an assessment that even some of Mohammed's interrogators quickly reached.

One interrogator reported informing superiors that the harsh techniques weren't working and complained that "I'm ostracized whenever I suggest [Mohammed and another detainee] did not tell us everything. How dare I think KSM was holding back."

And Mohammed wasn't just holding back, according to the report. He was outright lying, sending U.S. operatives on wild goose chases. Dozens of times, the report describes information the CIA promoted as "critical" as having been "fabricated," "unfounded" or "not supported by internal CIA records."

Within two weeks, the deputy chief of the CIA's interrogation program concluded that the waterboarding of Mohammed "has proven ineffective" and that "the potential for physical harm is far greater with the waterboard than with the other techniques, bringing into question the issue of risk vs. gain," according to the Senate report.

"We seem to have lost ground," and as a result, the CIA should reconsider whether waterboarding "may poison the well," the deputy chief is quoted as having written. But, the report says, "despite these reservations and assessments, the waterboarding of KSM continued for another 10 days."

Along with the waterboarding, Mohammed was subjected to days of standing sleep deprivation, slapping and "stress positions," the report says. And it says that several times he underwent an emergency medical procedure known as "rectal rehydration," or proctolysis, which standard medical references describe as a way to quickly replace fluids in a patient who is in shock or unconscious. The report matter-of-factly notes that such treatment was "medically unnecessary" for Mohammed, whom it describes as having been doused with, submerged in or force-fed water hundreds of times. After one session, the medical officer present reported that Mohammed's gastric contents were "so diluted by water" that Mohammed was in danger of water intoxication. The medical officer later wrote that "in the new technique we are basically doing a series of near drownings."

In another section, the Senate report also discloses that less than two months after Mohammed was captured, FBI Director Robert Mueller sought bureau access to Mohammed "to better understand CIA reporting indicating threats to U.S.cities." According to the report, however, the CIA "successfully formulated" an argument that delayed the FBI's access to Mohammed until he was transferred to the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba — a transfer that didn't take place for 3½ more years.

The report concluded that the maneuvering to shield Mohammed and other high-value detainees was part of a CIA campaign to actively impede the national security missions not only of the FBI, but also of President George W. Bush, Congress, the State Department, the office of the director of national intelligence and the CIA's own inspector general. The report doesn't provide an explicit reason for the alleged subterfuge, but it says that as early as 2001, CIA attorneys were working on legal arguments "to avoid prosecution of U.S. officials who tortured to obtain information that saved many lives."

So, according to this report:

1. KSM was water boarded 183 times in one month. Do you realize that averages 6 times a day? And that is after the medical officer on site determined it was ineffectual within 2-3 days, and the deputy chief of the whole CIA interrogation program said it wasn't achieving anything after two weeks. Throw in sleep deprivation, slapping, "stress positions" and "rectal rehydration" when he was so full of water he was in danger of death by water intoxication. Don't tell me "no one was tortured"!!

2. The "enhanced interrogation techniques" were approved on the day of his capture and began within minutes of arriving at the Cobalt facility. No thought of using non-abusive, psychology-based interrogation first? Just "let's torture him", before even finding out what information might be obtained by less abusive methods? If there was ever a chance he might cooperate peacefully, I imagine it ended the first time they struck him or shoved a hose up his rear end!

3. It didn't work, but did waste U.S. time and resources: "And Mohammed wasn't just holding back, according to the report. He was outright lying, sending U.S. operatives on wild goose chases. Dozens of times, the report describes information the CIA promoted as "critical" as having been "fabricated," "unfounded" or "not supported by internal CIA records."

4. Since when is it legal for the CIA to withhold information from or actively impede the President, the Congress, the State Department, the office of the director of national intelligence, the CIA Inspector General, and the FBI?

Yes, interpretation of the facts can be spun one way or another. But the facts themselves remain.

This report was a cherry picking of certain facts. You people would have us sit back and offer these people milk and cookies and ask them pretty please. We did not use torture. So some POS was made uncomfortable and sleep deprived and a few other things. Big fat hairy deal. Whatever it takes to save American lives. I am sick and tired of having the country I love run down and made to look like the scourge of the earth by a bunch of weasels like DI FI and the rest of the anti american left that occupies the democrat party. I know John McCain signed on to this but he is senile and suffering from the effects of real torture. This was known years ago and they signed off on it. Spare me the be about these tactics making us more hated. These people aim to wipe us out unless we convert to their religion. You jackwagons still think if we can just understand their justified rage and negotiate then we can all live in peace and harmony. You know empathize with them and all that jazz. After all we caused this by supporting Israel. We should let them wipe the Jews off the face of the earth. What is about liberals that makes you want to side with our enemies and believe the worst about your own country?

[homersapien 11,409]

If it saves American lives then let's do it. One American life is worth more than all of these worthless POS put together.

Yeah, we are exceptional.

We're not barbarians who torture prisoners. :-\

[homersapien 11,409]

Seems like some think anything they disagree with is a flaming rant. Common characteristic of a narcissist.

I bet you didn't even know what a narcissist was until it started showing up in the talking points.

[homersapien 11,409]

I heard one Obama admin official saying it was being released in the name of transparency. That's pretty dayum rich isn't it? Everything the the people want transparency on the admin stonewalls the hell out of it but, the one thing that has very good reason to remain classified they prefer publishing it for the world to read. Amazingly misguided policies have become the hallmark of the obama admn.

This is the best response you could muster? With all the worthwhile debate we can have on this subject, you trot out yet another flaming extremist rant?

I heard one Obama admin official saying it was being released in the name of transparency. That's pretty dayum rich isn't it? Everything the the people want transparency on the admin stonewalls the hell out of it but, the one thing that has very good reason to remain classified they prefer publishing it for the world to read. Amazingly misguided policies have become the hallmark of the obama admn.

This is the best response you could muster? With all the worthwhile debate we can have on this subject, you trot out yet another flaming extremist rant?

What exactly did you find so debate worthy in that report? So much is always made of context by your ilk, why is it that you and your cadre liberal Obama jock sniffing sheep ignore it in this report? Immediately following the heinous and senseless death of 3000 Americans in the Twin Tower collapse there was an extremely high sense of urgency to prevent another attack and information concerning additional terrorist activity was in high demand. I have no problem castrating the lot of them in public view because IMO when they launched their jihad against America, they became mortal enemies and if they're not defeated, they will defeat us...hows that for meaningful debate?

Exactly how are they going to "defeat us" Blue?

The only way I can think of is to undermine our moral standing. Destroy whatever moral authority we might enjoy in the world. Make a lie of American "exceptionalism".

Oh wait......maybe they actually can defeat us. From reading this thread, maybe they already have.

[homersapien 11,409]

I heard one Obama admin official saying it was being released in the name of transparency. That's pretty dayum rich isn't it? Everything the the people want transparency on the admin stonewalls the hell out of it but, the one thing that has very good reason to remain classified they prefer publishing it for the world to read. Amazingly misguided policies have become the hallmark of the obama admn.

This is the best response you could muster? With all the worthwhile debate we can have on this subject, you trot out yet another flaming extremist rant?

I heard one Obama admin official saying it was being released in the name of transparency. That's pretty dayum rich isn't it? Everything the the people want transparency on the admin stonewalls the hell out of it but, the one thing that has very good reason to remain classified they prefer publishing it for the world to read. Amazingly misguided policies have become the hallmark of the obama admn.

This is the best response you could muster? With all the worthwhile debate we can have on this subject, you trot out yet another flaming extremist rant?

What exactly did you find so debate worthy in that report? So much is always made of context by your ilk, why is it that you and your cadre liberal Obama jock sniffing sheep ignore it in this report? Immediately following the heinous and senseless death of 3000 Americans in the Twin Tower collapse there was an extremely high sense of urgency to prevent another attack and information concerning additional terrorist activity was in high demand. I have no problem castrating the lot of them in public view because IMO when they launched their jihad against America, they became mortal enemies and if they're not defeated, they will defeat us...hows that for meaningful debate?

My ilk? Show me your Iraq campaign Medal.

your ilk is the jock sniffing Obama apologists who will argue with wall to defend him...NO MATTER WHAT

BTW...that was ALL you could muster as response to my question? Not much there, huh?

Blue digs deep into his intellectual reserves and comes up with..........................."jock sniffing".

[homersapien 11,409]

Question........how many here think releasing this report was a good thing........yes or no. I for sure say no.

Of course you do.

[homersapien 11,409]

I heard Rush Limbaugh say that exact thing on the radio today. Too bad it's not true: CIA records indicate that: (1) the CIA had extensive reporting on [bin Laden courier] Abu Ahmad al-Kuwaiti (variant Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti), the UBL facilitator whose identification and tracking led to the identification of UBL's compound and the operation that resulted in UBL's death, prior to and independent of information from CIA detainees; (2) the most accurate information on Abu Ahmad al-Kuwaiti obtained from a CIA detainee was provided by a CIA detainee who had not yet been subjected to the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques; and (3) CIA detainees who were subjected to the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques withheld and fabricated information about Abu Ahmad al-Kuwaiti.

Your statements are misleading because you conveniently leave out the remaining facts. Jose' Rodriguez, the head of the water-boarding program, along with ALL CIA DIRECTORS refute your statements and confirm that the water-boarding techniques did in fact give clarity to the information they gathered, otherwise, the person you cite would have been meaningless.

http://www.foxnews.c...ttacks-after-9/

HANNITY: So, you don't think we would have gotten bin Laden without the techniques leading to intelligence?

RODRIGUEZ: The reason why is because there is a clear trail. There was someone that we captured, a facilitator that we captured in 2004 that told us about bin Laden's courier and gave us a pseudo name, Akhmeid Al-Kuwaiti.

HANNITY: And that was what led to bin Laden in Pakistan.

RODRIGUEZ: And eventually we got the true name of Al-Kuwaiti.

Too long to c&p: http://theweek.com/a...in-ladens-trail

Funny how you guys are so quick to accept denials from the principles in these sort of disputes if it suites your politics. When it doesn't (for example, if it's the Obama administration doing the denying...) it's a given that the accused are lying.

This shouldn't even be a partisan issue. But it's telling that you make it one.