democrats set to release CIA "torture" report today

[cooltigger21 0]

Liberals believe this report because they want to believe it. They have the mindset that this is how this nation operates in all matters.

[homersapien 11,393]

You call it revenge someone else calls it justice, right? Do you think you've changed anyone's opinion ?

The important thing is to speak out against it.

[cooltigger21 0]

Here is what Bob Kerrey, medal of honor winner had to say about this report. http://www.usatoday....olumn/20088647/

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

BOOM!!! But the libbies here will just say he has turned into a Stalinist.

[homersapien 11,393]

That was a general criticism of the oversight system and of the report itself (no recommendations).

I didn't see anything where he supported what was actually done as revealed by the report. Just the contrary: "I will continue to read the report to learn of the mistakes we apparently made."

[AUUSN 823]

I love the characterization of me as a "libbie" because I'm against torture. I couldn't care less about the report. The fact still remains as acknowledged by the CIA that interrogators overstepped their authority. Mistakes were made and we need to learn from them.

[autigeremt 6,652]

I love the characterization of me as a "libbie" because I'm against torture. I couldn't care less about the report. The fact still remains as acknowledged by the CIA that interrogators overstepped their authority. Mistakes were made and we need to learn from them.

I can buy that. I would prefer we used espionage, information gathering and true intel but somewhere in the early to mid 90's we thought we could gut everything because we overwhelmed Iraq in Desert Storm.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

AUUSN....I didn't call any names but if the shoe fits wear it. Your ego seems to be such that you think general posts are aimed at you. If there such a thing as a "me complex" you for sure have it.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Funny how some people have no problem believing conjecture and innuendo when it serves their purposes but, will never believe reports based on examinations of facts.

[TheBlueVue 177]

I love the characterization of me as a "libbie" because I'm against torture. I couldn't care less about the report. The fact still remains as acknowledged by the CIA that interrogators overstepped their authority. Mistakes were made and we need to learn from them.

Yep, I heard Brennan presser wherein he admitted that mistakes were made but they were isolated and not the norm and they were reported on a timely basis and were met with absolutely no negative feed back from anyone at the time. hmmm, go figure. Just another political move by a democrat with an axe to grind.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

If only we had more MEN like Dick Chaney.

Yes real MEN don't fight on a battlefield. Real men do their best fighting when their opponent is tied up, underwear around his ankles, pureed food running out of his ass. That's how a real MAN does it. We need more Dick Chaneys.

Nice spelling of "Chaney". I assume that is the idiot's version of Cheney. No shame in being an idiot though. The shame is in being like Cheney. The shame is in having a moral and ethical code that is conditional and self-serving.

[TheBlueVue 177]

If only we had more MEN like Dick Chaney.

Yes real MEN don't fight on a battlefield. Real men do their best fighting when their opponent is tied up, underwear around his ankles, pureed food running out of his ass. That's how a real MAN does it. We need more Dick Chaneys

Nice spelling of "Chaney". I assume that is the idiot's version of Cheney. No shame in being an idiot though. The shame is in being like Cheney. The shame is in having a moral and ethical code that is conditional and self-serving.

Your intellectual superiority is nothing but a self serving illusion. You're either too stupid or too stubborn to admit this was a democrat report prepared w/o a single briefing from the CIA. In fact they NEVER even interviewed a single person who was allegedly involved in the EIT practices but here you are wasting all this manufactured emotional outrage over nothing. The incidents happened over 11 years ago. The report could have been released 8 years ago but they chose to wait til just before they were losing control of the Senate to whip up their base by releasing this to the public now under the pretense that the CIA lied...it has to be positioned like that otherwise they could easily be accused of complicity which would be a true statement.

[AUUSN 823]

AUUSN....I didn't call any names but if the shoe fits wear it. Your ego seems to be such that you think general posts are aimed at you. If there such a thing as a "me complex" you for sure have it.

You are kidding right? You wrote: "BOOM!!! But the libbies here will just say he has turned into a Stalinist." I'm the only one who (rightly) mentioned Stalin. No ego, just a brain that hasn't succumbed to ideology.

[AUUSN 823]

If only we had more MEN like Dick Chaney.

Yes real MEN don't fight on a battlefield. Real men do their best fighting when their opponent is tied up, underwear around his ankles, pureed food running out of his ass. That's how a real MAN does it. We need more Dick Chaneys

Nice spelling of "Chaney". I assume that is the idiot's version of Cheney. No shame in being an idiot though. The shame is in being like Cheney. The shame is in having a moral and ethical code that is conditional and self-serving.

Your intellectual superiority is nothing but a self serving illusion. You're either too stupid or too stubborn to admit this was a democrat report prepared w/o a single briefing from the CIA. In fact they NEVER even interviewed a single person who was allegedly involved in the EIT practices but here you are wasting all this manufactured emotional outrage over nothing. The incidents happened over 11 years ago. The report could have been released 8 years ago but they chose to wait til just before they were losing control of the Senate to whip up their base by releasing this to the public now under the pretense that the CIA lied...it has to be positioned like that otherwise they could easily be accused of complicity which would be a true statement.

Why don't you remove the straw you use to view the world and admit that torture is wrong. Period. No politics just common human decency. Do you remember My Lai? You may want to return to that kind of warfare but leave me out! http://www.history.com/topics/vietnam-war/my-lai-massacre

[TheBlueVue 177]

If only we had more MEN like Dick Chaney.

Yes real MEN don't fight on a battlefield. Real men do their best fighting when their opponent is tied up, underwear around his ankles, pureed food running out of his ass. That's how a real MAN does it. We need more Dick Chaneys

Nice spelling of "Chaney". I assume that is the idiot's version of Cheney. No shame in being an idiot though. The shame is in being like Cheney. The shame is in having a moral and ethical code that is conditional and self-serving.

Your intellectual superiority is nothing but a self serving illusion. You're either too stupid or too stubborn to admit this was a democrat report prepared w/o a single briefing from the CIA. In fact they NEVER even interviewed a single person who was allegedly involved in the EIT practices but here you are wasting all this manufactured emotional outrage over nothing. The incidents happened over 11 years ago. The report could have been released 8 years ago but they chose to wait til just before they were losing control of the Senate to whip up their base by releasing this to the public now under the pretense that the CIA lied...it has to be positioned like that otherwise they could easily be accused of complicity which would be a true statement.

Why don't you remove the straw you use to view the world and admit that torture is wrong. Period. No politics just common human decency. Do you remember My Lai? You may want to return to that kind of warfare but leave me out! http://www.history.c...my-lai-massacre

Let me ask you this...you are aware that all the alleged EITs were fully vetted by Holder's DoJ right? If they are so wrong would the not also be illegal? Not surprisingly, not a single charge was filed against those allegedly guilty of employing these EITs.

Context is really important to your people when it comes to dismissing statements Obama has made but evidently, the absoluteness of these evil EITs completely eliminate the need for context in this situation. They occurred on the heels of the murder of 3000 Americans and the CIA was charged with the ominous responsibility of preventing this from happening again. it was unchartered waters for the country AND the CIA. Were mistakes made? That has never been denied but the mistakes, according to John Brennan, were NOT the norm and they were reported on a timely basis,meaning, the Senate Intelligence committee knew all about them in their totality 8 years ago and never saw fit to utter a word about them ...are those acts much more evil now, 8 years later, now that they're losing control of the Senate? Its over and if it was as bad as DiFi wants to make them out to be why no charges from Holder's DoJ and why not a word about them until 8 years later?

[AUUSN 823]

If only we had more MEN like Dick Chaney.

Yes real MEN don't fight on a battlefield. Real men do their best fighting when their opponent is tied up, underwear around his ankles, pureed food running out of his ass. That's how a real MAN does it. We need more Dick Chaneys

Nice spelling of "Chaney". I assume that is the idiot's version of Cheney. No shame in being an idiot though. The shame is in being like Cheney. The shame is in having a moral and ethical code that is conditional and self-serving.

Your intellectual superiority is nothing but a self serving illusion. You're either too stupid or too stubborn to admit this was a democrat report prepared w/o a single briefing from the CIA. In fact they NEVER even interviewed a single person who was allegedly involved in the EIT practices but here you are wasting all this manufactured emotional outrage over nothing. The incidents happened over 11 years ago. The report could have been released 8 years ago but they chose to wait til just before they were losing control of the Senate to whip up their base by releasing this to the public now under the pretense that the CIA lied...it has to be positioned like that otherwise they could easily be accused of complicity which would be a true statement.

Why don't you remove the straw you use to view the world and admit that torture is wrong. Period. No politics just common human decency. Do you remember My Lai? You may want to return to that kind of warfare but leave me out! http://www.history.c...my-lai-massacre

Let me ask you this...you are aware that all the alleged EITs were fully vetted by Holder's DoJ right? If they are so wrong would the not also be illegal? Not surprisingly, not a single charge was filed against those allegedly guilty of employing these EITs.

Context is really important to your people when it comes to dismissing statements Obama has made but evidently, the absoluteness of these evil EITs completely eliminate the need for context in this situation. They occurred on the heels of the murder of 3000 Americans and the CIA was charged with the ominous responsibility of preventing this from happening again. it was unchartered waters for the country AND the CIA. Were mistakes made? That has never been denied but the mistakes, according to John Brennan, were NOT the norm and they were reported on a timely basis,meaning, the Senate Intelligence committee knew all about them in their totality 8 years ago and never saw fit to utter a word about them ...are those acts much more evil now, 8 years later, now that they're losing control of the Senate? Its over and if it was as bad as DiFi wants to make them out to be why no charges from Holder's DoJ and why not a word about them until 8 years later?

You can't even drop your political BS for one post to admit that torture is wrong.

[TheBlueVue 177]

Funny how some people have no problem believing conjecture and innuendo when it serves their purposes but, will never believe reports based on examinations of facts.

Those facts were in written reports. Our system doesn't allow leveling charges in the absence of the opportunity to defend oneself. Apparently, you're completely willing to forego that Constitutional right as well because you think its OK to do so.

[TheBlueVue 177]

If only we had more MEN like Dick Chaney.

Yes real MEN don't fight on a battlefield. Real men do their best fighting when their opponent is tied up, underwear around his ankles, pureed food running out of his ass. That's how a real MAN does it. We need more Dick Chaneys

Nice spelling of "Chaney". I assume that is the idiot's version of Cheney. No shame in being an idiot though. The shame is in being like Cheney. The shame is in having a moral and ethical code that is conditional and self-serving.

Your intellectual superiority is nothing but a self serving illusion. You're either too stupid or too stubborn to admit this was a democrat report prepared w/o a single briefing from the CIA. In fact they NEVER even interviewed a single person who was allegedly involved in the EIT practices but here you are wasting all this manufactured emotional outrage over nothing. The incidents happened over 11 years ago. The report could have been released 8 years ago but they chose to wait til just before they were losing control of the Senate to whip up their base by releasing this to the public now under the pretense that the CIA lied...it has to be positioned like that otherwise they could easily be accused of complicity which would be a true statement.

Why don't you remove the straw you use to view the world and admit that torture is wrong. Period. No politics just common human decency. Do you remember My Lai? You may want to return to that kind of warfare but leave me out! http://www.history.c...my-lai-massacre

Let me ask you this...you are aware that all the alleged EITs were fully vetted by Holder's DoJ right? If they are so wrong would the not also be illegal? Not surprisingly, not a single charge was filed against those allegedly guilty of employing these EITs.

Context is really important to your people when it comes to dismissing statements Obama has made but evidently, the absoluteness of these evil EITs completely eliminate the need for context in this situation. They occurred on the heels of the murder of 3000 Americans and the CIA was charged with the ominous responsibility of preventing this from happening again. it was unchartered waters for the country AND the CIA. Were mistakes made? That has never been denied but the mistakes, according to John Brennan, were NOT the norm and they were reported on a timely basis,meaning, the Senate Intelligence committee knew all about them in their totality 8 years ago and never saw fit to utter a word about them ...are those acts much more evil now, 8 years later, now that they're losing control of the Senate? Its over and if it was as bad as DiFi wants to make them out to be why no charges from Holder's DoJ and why not a word about them until 8 years later?

You can't even drop your political BS for one post to admit that torture is wrong.

Apparently you cannot understand that "wrong" is a relative measure and not strictly a black and white issue especially in a situation that is unchartered for a country AND its central intelligence agency.

I find all the moral outrage from the left about these EITs to be completely disingenuous. Presumably it is A-OK to support a drone program that, in spite of its best efforts, invariably ends up delivering collateral damages that includes killing innocent women and children, neighbors family and friends. No problem there but it is WRONG in an absolute sense to use EITs to potentially protect Americans. Nooooooooooooooooooo!

[AUUSN 823]

Apparently you cannot understand that "wrong" is a relative measure and not strictly a black and white issue especially in a situation that is unchartered for a country AND its central intelligence agency

So then you can't. Actually it isn't uncharted: Torture and the Self-Correction of Democracies

warontherocks.com/2014/12/warchives-torture-and-the-self-correction-of-democracies/

Mark Stout

As Americans debate the Senate torture report, it may be of some comfort to remember that we are not the only democracy to grapple with such issues in recent history. A useful reminder of this fact is an insightful chapter by Professor Richard Aldrich of Warwick University on Britain’s postwar experience with coercive interrogation in the edited volume Learning from the Secret Past: Cases in British Intelligence History.

In the course of conflicts in Aden and Northern Ireland during the 1960s and the 1970s, the United Kingdom faced the problem of how to treat detainees who might have valuable information. During the conflict in Aden, Amnesty International brought the issue of harsh interrogation to public attention. This led the Joint Intelligence Committee to issue a set of strict guidelines on interrogations—informally known as “The Bible.” When the “Troubles” broke out in Northern Ireland, part of the United Kingdom itself, the British Army ignored The Bible and invented additional and highly problematic procedures. Again, the issue broke out into public view.

The treatment of detainees in the Aden and Northern Ireland conflicts spawned three separate government inquiries in seven years. In 1971, the details of abuse described in one of them, the Compton Inquiry report, led Cabinet ministers to ask Dick White, the Cabinet Office intelligence coordinator and former head of MI5 and MI6, to look at certain controversial interrogation methods. These included “wall-standing” (a form of stress position), hooding, and white noise. White’s brief recommendations are available in Learning from the Secret Past: Cases in British Intelligence History. White recommended that these three techniques should remain in the kit bag, but he also urged limits on their use and duration.

Much as the half-measure of ending waterboarding in 2003 but retaining other “enhanced interrogation techniques” did not prove politically sustainable in the United States, White’s recommendations did not stand for long. Another public report, the Parker Report, followed in 1972. This forced Prime Minister Edward Heath, rather against his will, to ban coercive interrogations altogether. Meanwhile, however, the government of Ireland had already brought a complaint of torture to the European Court of Human Rights. Initial rulings held that the United Kingdom had, indeed, engaged in torture through the use of these techniques. Ultimately, however, the court decided that the British government was guilty of the lesser infraction of inflicting “inhuman and degrading treatment” in contravention of the European Convention on Human Rights. Aldrich reports that the United Kingdom has not practiced these techniques since 1972.

Among the lessons that Aldrich derives in his chapter are that “pressure for abandonment of sensible interrogation guidelines is most likely to occur in the context of unexpected emergencies” and that “interrogation measures rarely stay secret for long.” To this I might add that democracies are not infallible, but they are better than others at self-correcting and that those Europeans who may be tempted to engage in essentialist critiques of the United States on the question of torture ask what their parents’ generation did in their own wars.http://warontherocks.com/2014/12/warchives-torture-and-the-self-correction-of-democracies/

[AUUSN 823]

"It is essential to seek out enemy agents who have come to conduct espionage against you and to bribe them to serve you. Give them instructions and care for them. Thus doubled agents are recruited and used." - "It is essential that justice be done and it is equally vital that justice not be confused with revenge, for the two are wholly different"

Sun Tzu

[TheBlueVue 177]

"It is essential to seek out enemy agents who have come to conduct espionage against you and to bribe them to serve you. Give them instructions and care for them. Thus doubled agents are recruited and used." - "It is essential that justice be done and it is equally vital that justice not be confused with revenge, for the two are wholly different"

Sun Tzu

What does Sun Tzu say about using drones that kill innocent women and children?

[AUUSN 823]

"It is essential to seek out enemy agents who have come to conduct espionage against you and to bribe them to serve you. Give them instructions and care for them. Thus doubled agents are recruited and used." - "It is essential that justice be done and it is equally vital that justice not be confused with revenge, for the two are wholly different"

Sun Tzu

What does Sun Tzu say about using drones that kill innocent women and children?

Moving the goal post? You want to discuss Drone Warfare, start a thread and we'll go at it. So are you going to admit that torture is wrong?

[TheBlueVue 177]

"It is essential to seek out enemy agents who have come to conduct espionage against you and to bribe them to serve you. Give them instructions and care for them. Thus doubled agents are recruited and used." - "It is essential that justice be done and it is equally vital that justice not be confused with revenge, for the two are wholly different"

Sun Tzu

What does Sun Tzu say about using drones that kill innocent women and children?

Moving the goal post? You want to discuss Drone Warfare, start a thread and we'll go at it. So are you going to admit that torture is wrong?

No Im simply pointing out the obvious absence of a legitimate basis for your moral outrage. You've asserted that evil is absolute..how can you support a drone program and be so offended by the use of EITs that didn't kill anyone and actually helped secure info that was instrumental in not only averting further terrorist activity but also finding and killing UBL?

[AUUSN 823]

"It is essential to seek out enemy agents who have come to conduct espionage against you and to bribe them to serve you. Give them instructions and care for them. Thus doubled agents are recruited and used." - "It is essential that justice be done and it is equally vital that justice not be confused with revenge, for the two are wholly different"

Sun Tzu

What does Sun Tzu say about using drones that kill innocent women and children?

Moving the goal post? You want to discuss Drone Warfare, start a thread and we'll go at it. So are you going to admit that torture is wrong?

No Im simply pointing out the obvious absence of a legitimate basis for your moral outrage. You've asserted that evil is absolute..how can you support a drone program and be so offended by the use of EITs that didn't kill anyone and actually helped secure info that was instrumental in not only averting further terrorist activity but also finding and killing UBL?

Holy crap dude, it's a simple question. Do you think torture is wrong?

[autigeremt 6,652]

I think torture is wrong....but I also think killing over 3,000 innocent men, women, and children is wrong. I can see why people (including myself) would want revenge and justice against an enemy who would willingly detonate nuclear devices across our country in the name of Jihad if given the chance.

In some instances it takes a monster to kill a monster.....but I'm not saying we should make it policy.