Barnacle 9,064 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 So the "hype" of Chambers seems to be falling flat at the moment. People going low? Haven't been able to keep up today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 We have to remember that this course was designed to be played by professionals....and maybe top amateurs. The average golfer can't break 100 on his or her local public course and most of them could not even finish this course. It's ten miles long and would take most amateur foursomes 6 hours or more to play a round...which is one of the major criticisms of golf....just takes too long to play. Water can be an issue for the future of golf....but according to what I read it's greens fee rates the excessive time to play a round that is the primary issue with the declining popularity of golf....which is why there are experiments with efforts to shorten courses to fit the golfers' abilities. I play lots of tourist courses and most have reduced the white tee length back to about 6000 - 6400 yard, put the senior tees at 5800 though several courses I play identify their tee boxes based on the player's handicap rather than age or ego....and generally discourage golfers from playing from the blue or black tees. Meanwhile the announcers are really feeling the need to defend the course design and conditioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCTiger2011 1,281 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 So the "hype" of Chambers seems to be falling flat at the moment. People going low? Haven't been able to keep up today Not super low, but lead will probably be -7 or so by end of the day. 40 people currently even or better. The course appears defenseless without any wind, but the greens are keeping anyone from busting out a super low number right now. I'd be okay with a -7 to -10 winner, but I still don't see the hype of this course coming in. Wide fairways (for everyone but Tiger evidently) and very boring viewer wise. Dry fairways might yield an average driver, pristine iron play champion by Sunday night (looking at you, Matt Kuchar) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCTiger2011 1,281 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Jason Day just fell walking down 9 fairway. Medical team looking at him. Seems to be in discomfort. Dehydration maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Jason Day just fell walking down 9 fairway. Medical team looking at him. Seems to be in discomfort. Dehydration maybe? Apparently an ongoing issue....has happened in the recent past. Looked shaky but hit a nice sand shot and finished the hole and sent to sign his card...but never looked steady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
around4ever 4,139 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Apparently he has been dealing with vertigo for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnacle 9,064 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 We have to remember that this course was designed to be played by professionals....and maybe top amateurs. The average golfer can't break 100 on his or her local public course and most of them could not even finish this course. It's ten miles long and would take most amateur foursomes 6 hours or more to play a round...which is one of the major criticisms of golf....just takes too long to play. Water can be an issue for the future of golf....but according to what I read it's greens fee rates the excessive time to play a round that is the primary issue with the declining popularity of golf....which is why there are experiments with efforts to shorten courses to fit the golfers' abilities. I play lots of tourist courses and most have reduced the white tee length back to about 6000 - 6400 yard, put the senior tees at 5800 though several courses I play identify their tee boxes based on the player's handicap rather than age or ego....and generally discourage golfers from playing from the blue or black tees. Meanwhile the announcers are really feeling the need to defend the course design and conditioning. You're right, cost is the number one deterrent to people playing, or starting to play golf. Sure, time is an issue, the USGA has started its Tee it Forward campaign, so that's evident, but cost is by far the greatest inhibitor to growing the game. Of all the expenses a golf course pays, its greatest expense is maintenance. Although I think water is of emphasis, its under the blanket of course maintenance. Growing different grasses that need less water, and in turn less cutting, as well as using man-made features in course design, such as natural bunkers, or waste areas brings down maintenance costs tremendously. Less grooming means less labor, less equipment, less water, and less cost for the consumer. These are the types of remedies that need to be sought in order to grow golf, and the USGA recognizes it. Also, water isn't a future issue, its an issue right now. We're already seeing parts of this country endure drought, and consider legislation restricting water, especially to luxuries like golf courses. This issue is only going to intensify in the future, and golf will feel the effect. That's why we're talking about it now. I know I must sound like a USGA apologist, or even a Chambers Bay defender. Unfortunately, your average viewer is going to look at the course and think that because the grass is brown, that its a dog track, and probably have never played on fescue, so I think there is some unfair criticism.I won't try and defend the greens, which from the sound of it have been sub-standard. What I will defend, however, is that the USGA is at least attempting to change the perception of what a golf course should be, or should look like. We're so accustomed to seeing overseeded, over fertilized golf courses that have 10s of millions of gallons of water pumped into them every year, that anything less is unacceptable. I'm like most people who believe that Augusta National is the pinnacle of golf. I'd love it if my local municipal course could afford to look anything remotely close to Augusta, but it won't because it can't afford to. And no one can afford to pay what it would cost to make it happen. I'm sure near Myrtle Beach, or any other tourist location, there are many good public courses. When I visit Florida, there are many wonderful courses that are somewhat reasonably priced, but most of us don't live in areas where the economy is driven by visitors with dispensable income and retirees. There will always be access to beautiful, immaculately maintained golf courses, and I'll play them until I die, but when we're talking about actually growing the game, we need to start thinking about golf courses, and looking at them differently. Off my soapbox now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Barnacle...appreciate your commentary....I've been president and a board member of our nice little Donald Ross design golf course in the NC foothills and am pretty clued in on most of the issues you mention and of course we play on dormant Bermuda grass fairways (brown) for about 4 or 5 months each year though our bent greens look good pretty much all year around and we don't over-seed anywhere ....$$$ as you note. We are fortunate to have a couple natural creeks from nearby mountains and three ponds to collect water for irrigation. Guess my major gripe with CB is that the greens are not what anyone would normally expect in a Major....and the course is not designed for the typical golfer.....with huge elevation changes, slopes on fairways and greens that take even well placed shots into massive sand traps that about 95 % of the typical golfer could not get out of. SO.....I can't get excited about the course itself.....and it would never find its way to my bucket list. Now the tournament....it's great....and I expect the outcome to be in doubt right up until the last player finishes...lots of ways for a leader to lose 2 strokes with a miss-hit shot late in a round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnacle 9,064 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Barnacle...appreciate your commentary....I've been president and a board member of our nice little Donald Ross design golf course in the NC foothills and am pretty clued in on most of the issues you mention and of course we play on dormant Bermuda grass fairways (brown) for about 4 or 5 months each year though our bent greens look good pretty much all year around and we don't over-seed anywhere ....$$$ as you note. We are fortunate to have a couple natural creeks from nearby mountains and three ponds to collect water for irrigation. Guess my major gripe with CB is that the greens are not what anyone would normally expect in a Major....and the course is not designed for the typical golfer.....with huge elevation changes, slopes on fairways and greens that take even well placed shots into massive sand traps that about 95 % of the typical golfer could not get out of. SO.....I can't get excited about the course itself.....and it would never find its way to my bucket list. Now the tournament....it's great....and I expect the outcome to be in doubt right up until the last player finishes...lots of ways for a leader to lose 2 strokes with a miss-hit shot late in a round. We play a similar set-up, zoysia fairways, and bent-grass greens. So, you know what I'm talking about. I'm starting to understand your point of view now, which if I understand correctly is, why build a course that the public isn't largely interested in playing. And, perhaps from in view of my argument, what's the point of saving money if you are building courses that no one wants to play. For the record, I also don't have much of an interest in playing this course. I think the Pinehurst renovation was probably a better reference for me to use, I just appreciate that the USGA is pursuing what I think to be a prudent course of action moving forward for growing the game. I do think its important that we (as a country) start to broaden our view of what makes a good golf course,if we want the game to grow. As for the US Open set-up, the USGA in my opinion has acted a little bit ridiculous. Someone said gimmicky earlier, I agree, and I think Brandel Chamblee said something a couple days ago about how we should never know what the name of the Exec. Director is, yet we do, and its absurd that we've heard his name 1000x this week already. As for the tournament, I think we are going to see a really exciting finish. Hopefully no one loses the tournament on the greens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Barnacle...appreciate your commentary....I've been president and a board member of our nice little Donald Ross design golf course in the NC foothills and am pretty clued in on most of the issues you mention and of course we play on dormant Bermuda grass fairways (brown) for about 4 or 5 months each year though our bent greens look good pretty much all year around and we don't over-seed anywhere ....$$$ as you note. We are fortunate to have a couple natural creeks from nearby mountains and three ponds to collect water for irrigation. Guess my major gripe with CB is that the greens are not what anyone would normally expect in a Major....and the course is not designed for the typical golfer.....with huge elevation changes, slopes on fairways and greens that take even well placed shots into massive sand traps that about 95 % of the typical golfer could not get out of. SO.....I can't get excited about the course itself.....and it would never find its way to my bucket list. Now the tournament....it's great....and I expect the outcome to be in doubt right up until the last player finishes...lots of ways for a leader to lose 2 strokes with a miss-hit shot late in a round. We play a similar set-up, zoysia fairways, and bent-grass greens. So, you know what I'm talking about. I'm starting to understand your point of view now, which if I understand correctly is, why build a course that the public isn't largely interested in playing. And, perhaps from in view of my argument, what's the point of saving money if you are building courses that no one wants to play. For the record, I also don't have much of an interest in playing this course. I think the Pinehurst renovation was probably a better reference for me to use, I just appreciate that the USGA is pursuing what I think to be a prudent course of action moving forward for growing the game. I do think its important that we (as a country) start to broaden our view of what makes a good golf course,if we want the game to grow. As for the US Open set-up, the USGA in my opinion has acted a little bit ridiculous. Someone said gimmicky earlier, I agree, and I think Brandel Chamblee said something a couple days ago about how we should never know what the name of the Exec. Director is, yet we do, and its absurd that we've heard his name 1000x this week already. As for the tournament, I think we are going to see a really exciting finish. Hopefully no one loses the tournament on the greens. interesting about your fairways....we went to zoysia tee boxes a couple years ago from bent...and saved a fortune in water, labor and fertilizer.....otherwise, being a foothills course we have mixed weather though we play some golf about every month of the year.....and Bermuda does a good job....low maint, quick fill in of divots and a nice playing surface most of the year. "'As for the tournament, I think we are going to see a really exciting finish. Hopefully no one loses the tournament on the greens" Thought it was appropriate that Tiger missed a 5 to 6 foot putt on his last hole of his Open. What has amazed me about the missed putts is that I can't count the number of missed putts inside 10 feet where the golfer did not even hit the lip of the cup. I expect it's going to be that way right to the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUbritt 611 Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 https://twitter.com/...930800574042116 Yikes. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUbritt 611 Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Barnacle...appreciate your commentary....I've been president and a board member of our nice little Donald Ross design golf course in the NC foothills and am pretty clued in on most of the issues you mention and of course we play on dormant Bermuda grass fairways (brown) for about 4 or 5 months each year though our bent greens look good pretty much all year around and we don't over-seed anywhere ....$$$ as you note. We are fortunate to have a couple natural creeks from nearby mountains and three ponds to collect water for irrigation. Guess my major gripe with CB is that the greens are not what anyone would normally expect in a Major....and the course is not designed for the typical golfer.....with huge elevation changes, slopes on fairways and greens that take even well placed shots into massive sand traps that about 95 % of the typical golfer could not get out of. SO.....I can't get excited about the course itself.....and it would never find its way to my bucket list. Now the tournament....it's great....and I expect the outcome to be in doubt right up until the last player finishes...lots of ways for a leader to lose 2 strokes with a miss-hit shot late in a round. We play a similar set-up, zoysia fairways, and bent-grass greens. So, you know what I'm talking about. I'm starting to understand your point of view now, which if I understand correctly is, why build a course that the public isn't largely interested in playing. And, perhaps from in view of my argument, what's the point of saving money if you are building courses that no one wants to play. For the record, I also don't have much of an interest in playing this course. I think the Pinehurst renovation was probably a better reference for me to use, I just appreciate that the USGA is pursuing what I think to be a prudent course of action moving forward for growing the game. I do think its important that we (as a country) start to broaden our view of what makes a good golf course,if we want the game to grow. As for the US Open set-up, the USGA in my opinion has acted a little bit ridiculous. Someone said gimmicky earlier, I agree, and I think Brandel Chamblee said something a couple days ago about how we should never know what the name of the Exec. Director is, yet we do, and its absurd that we've heard his name 1000x this week already. As for the tournament, I think we are going to see a really exciting finish. Hopefully no one loses the tournament on the greens. Great conversation. I totally want to play this course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUbritt 611 Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 As for not having heard any complaints, players started belly-aching before they even saw the course. Here's more after they started playing. Jordan Spieth and Patrick Reed seem to be able to putt, though. ETA: Total respect for Jason Day, though. Guy can't even stand up straight, finishes out, and leaves course saying he'll be back tomorrow. That's a great attitude, if you ask me. Sergio and Monty, on the other hand .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnacle 9,064 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 As for not having heard any complaints, players started belly-aching before they even saw the course. Here's more after they started playing. Jordan Spieth and Patrick Reed seem to be able to putt, though. :dunno:/> ETA: Total respect for Jason Day, though. Guy can't even stand up straight, finishes out, and leaves course saying he'll be back tomorrow. That's a great attitude, if you ask me. Sergio and Monty, on the other hand .... He finished!? I saw the video of him collapsing. What a champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUbritt 611 Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 As for not having heard any complaints, players started belly-aching before they even saw the course. Here's more after they started playing. Jordan Spieth and Patrick Reed seem to be able to putt, though. :dunno:/> ETA: Total respect for Jason Day, though. Guy can't even stand up straight, finishes out, and leaves course saying he'll be back tomorrow. That's a great attitude, if you ask me. Sergio and Monty, on the other hand .... He finished!? I saw the video of him collapsing. What a champ. Yep. It was his last hole, so he dug deep and pulled off a bogey. Was great. Honestly, it made me a fan of JD. By the way, I did hear some really legit complaints (in my opinion) about the course setup, specifically about the way they are positioning the tee box on hole 18. Apparently, when they set it up as a par 4, they position the tee box in such a way that almost no one in the field has a chance to hit a shot from the tee that will allow them to reach the green in two. (This problem doesn't arise when it's set up as a par 5 -- almost everyone can reach in three.) It's not quite true that it's impossible to reach in two when set up as a par 4. Jordan Spieth, for instance, said he could probably hit 3 iron off the tee, then 3 wood into the hole. But he'd have really almost no shot of holding the green. When it's set up as a par 4, there's a fairly long carry over a fairway bunker on the left (265, if I remember right), but the fairway slopes right and there's what Frank Nobilo was calling a "stop bunker" on the right at 325 yards on the right. Apparently, it's almost impossible to hit a drive that carries the left bunker and stays in the fairway without either ending up in the rough or the 'stop bunker'. That strikes me as unfair and stupid. The greens, on the other hand, appear to be rolling pretty well for putts struck at the right pace. The video of the ball that looked like it was going in only to veer around the hole (posted earlier) is just the way my 'home' cow pasture plays. I really think we're seeing the better putters rise to the top in this US Open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 As for not having heard any complaints, players started belly-aching before they even saw the course. Here's more after they started playing. Jordan Spieth and Patrick Reed seem to be able to putt, though. :dunno:/> ETA: Total respect for Jason Day, though. Guy can't even stand up straight, finishes out, and leaves course saying he'll be back tomorrow. That's a great attitude, if you ask me. Sergio and Monty, on the other hand .... He finished!? I saw the video of him collapsing. What a champ. Fortunately it was his last hole of the day...don't think he could have made another one. Hope he is able to shake it off over night and be ready to play on Saturday.....but he sure needs to find out what's causing that problem......not the first experience for him with vertigo. As for complaints....yes..have been some...and some before the players even arrived. Guess they should do like a few places I've seen...just "paint" it a nice green and everyone keep their mouth shut....but for an Open....there is reason to expect better....JMO Everyone missing putts inside of 10 feet....but it's the same conditions for everyone of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Too bad....again today most of the conversation seems to be about the golf course....and not the match. JMO...but there will be some serious post tournament meetings of USGA and PGA officials to talk about what went right and what went wrong. The greens are sure in Rory's head..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUbritt 611 Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Jason Day put in an awesome performance today. Will be paired with DJ in the final group. Spieth tied for lead with those guys, will be paired with Grace. Spieth says he may play 18 down #1 fairway. Good for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Jason Day put in an awesome performance today. Will be paired with DJ in the final group. Spieth tied for lead with those guys, will be paired with Grace. Spieth says he may play 18 down #1 fairway. Good for him. after watching him putt, Spieth is better off putting from 30 feet than 5 feet....at least when you miss a 30 foot putt, nobody is surprised....but a frustrating afternoon for him ( and everyone else too I guess) on the short putts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUbritt 611 Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Jason Day put in an awesome performance today. Will be paired with DJ in the final group. Spieth tied for lead with those guys, will be paired with Grace. Spieth says he may play 18 down #1 fairway. Good for him. after watching him putt, Spieth is better off putting from 30 feet than 5 feet....at least when you miss a 30 foot putt, nobody is surprised....but a frustrating afternoon for him ( and everyone else too I guess) on the short putts. Agreed. He seems to put much better pace on the ball from further out, which is sort of understandable. I thought DJ was mature in his reaction to the course yesterday. He said the pin placements were brutal, that he missed some putts, but that he made some, too. He hit every fairway, except for the two (par 4) greens he hit in one. Very impressive driving the ball. Just heard on TGC that they have decided to play #18 as a par 5, which I'm sure is music to the ears of most, if not all, of the players. We're set up for a great final day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 As someone noted earlier...without the wind, the course was defenseless against guys driving the ball 350 yards....if the greens had been smooth and the putts "readable" a couple guys would be closing in on 20 under. JMO but with the mixed grasses and such, I think most of the guys were just guessing on the breaks on those short putts....for the quality of players out there, waaay too many missed short putts that never even had a chance. Wonder what mental adjustments they will make on the putting....if it were me, I would go straight for the center of the cup any time I was inside 8 feet....forget trying to figure out the breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUbritt 611 Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 As someone noted earlier...without the wind, the course was defenseless against guys driving the ball 350 yards....if the greens had been smooth and the putts "readable" a couple guys would be closing in on 20 under. JMO but with the mixed grasses and such, I think most of the guys were just guessing on the breaks on those short putts....for the quality of players out there, waaay too many missed short putts that never even had a chance. Wonder what mental adjustments they will make on the putting....if it were me, I would go straight for the center of the cup any time I was inside 8 feet....forget trying to figure out the breaks. That's one strategy. The other is to read the putt, make the stroke, and not worry too much if it doesn't go in. I think either strategy is fine. The trouble arises when you get caught in between -- halfway playing for break, halfway trying to take the break out. Honestly, I think that happened a few times with Spieth, yesterday. The putt on 18 was a good example. It was pretty close to the same as Day's putt. Day read it and played the break. Spieth either under-read the break, or -- more likely -- read the break but decided to take 'some' out. He missed, but Day made it. Not saying he would've missed putting it harder straight at the hole. That might well work, too. Players just can't get caught in between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Good points...I can't read putts well on a good day anyway and once I miss-read a few I get even less confident about what I think I'm seeing. Usually these guys don't miss-read so many putts....and by several inches from a half dozen feet. It's working on their minds for certain. Interesting that a number of hole locations provide the opportunity for the golfers to run the ball past the cup and then let it drift back to within 4 or 5 feet of the cup....which has given them a lot of "makeable" putts...if they could just get the speed and break.....or non-break right. I didn't see Duf's putt on #1 but he had one of those putts....and from his score total a couple holes later..I think he must have missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 So...how much will Billy Horshels's comments cost him? He pulled no punches...."makes good putters average....and bad putters average....bring everyone back to the middle"....interesting thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCTiger2011 1,281 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 So...how much will Billy Horshels's comments cost him? He pulled no punches...."makes good putters average....and bad putters average....bring everyone back to the middle"....interesting thought... Correct me if I'm wrong, but as the U.S. Open isn't a PGA Tour event, I doubt he will face any fines from the PGA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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