Fort Worth schools jam through new trans policies

[augolf1716 21,221]

cluster

[homersapien 11,393]

No, I don't see a problem. If she can't tell, then there's no problem by definition. If she finds out - or is merely suspicious - and is uncomfortable with it, she simply requests a transfer.

You act is if a penis can act on it's own. A penis on a transexual woman is irrelevant. In fact, she would theoretically be at greater risk with a lesbian who doesn't have a penis to start with. Do we need to start qualifying everyone by sexual preference as well?

Clearly, you still reject the very idea of transexuals.

I reject the idea that one's body is irrelevant to the issue. I reject the idea that seeing it is relevant is not the problem, failing to acknowledge its significance is. I reject the idea that the mere existence of something thereby dictates its accommodation in every respect.

And especially in this situation, I reject that idea that being able to keep it a secret makes it all ok. Why should she be in the dark about something like this? She could have PTSD from a prior rape. Are you saying that now you want rape survivors to have to request (if such a thing is available in the dorms) a single-occupancy room and forgo the benefits having a fellow woman as a roommate so that we don't wound the feelings of someone else? And regardless of prior sexual assault issues, she did not sign up for a single-sex dorm to be secretly placed in a close living situation with male bodies. There are numerous co-ed dorms or even private apartments available if that's something she didn't mind (assuming freshmen at the school are permitted to live outside of dorms).

Would it be ok if a male willing to go to the lengths necessary to pass as a female, but who is actually a straight male, was permitted to live in the girls room with her so long as he could fool everyone and didn't actually make a move on her? She may not wish to be roommates with a gay male either, which is completely reasonable. The attraction issue isn't the pertinent part of this.

What sort of nonsense is this? I feel like every time we talk about this subject I've been dropped into Alice in Wonderland.

These sort of hypothetical arguments could be made for abolishing the concept of room mates - having to share an apartment or house with anyone is an unacceptable sexual risk.

[homersapien 11,393]

I've asked this question before, but I'll ask again:

If a trans woman (born a man) presented as a woman who was 'your type' - the kind you are normally attracted to in appearance - and she had gotten all of the best surgical changes done to have proper looking lady parts was interested in you, would you date and/or have sex with her?

If not, and she's truly a woman and should be regarded as such in every way, why not?

Assuming we are disregarding extraneous factors - I can't think of a reason why not. Can you?

[TitanTiger 20,499]

I've asked this question before, but I'll ask again:

If a trans woman (born a man) presented as a woman who was 'your type' - the kind you are normally attracted to in appearance - and she had gotten all of the best surgical changes done to have proper looking lady parts was interested in you, would you date and/or have sex with her?

If not, and she's truly a woman and should be regarded as such in every way, why not?

Assuming we are disregarding extraneous factors - I can't think of a reason why not. Can you?

Well I can. He's a man. He can have a horn surgically implanted in his head but it won't make him a unicorn.

Also I don't believe this is the answer you gave the last time we talked about this.

[augolf1716 21,221]

lol

[homersapien 11,393]

I've asked this question before, but I'll ask again:

If a trans woman (born a man) presented as a woman who was 'your type' - the kind you are normally attracted to in appearance - and she had gotten all of the best surgical changes done to have proper looking lady parts was interested in you, would you date and/or have sex with her?

If not, and she's truly a woman and should be regarded as such in every way, why not?

Assuming we are disregarding extraneous factors - I can't think of a reason why not. Can you?

Well I can. He's a man. He can have a horn surgically implanted in his head but it won't make him a unicorn.

Also I don't believe this is the answer you gave the last time we talked about this.

How are we to know she was born a man?

[TitanTiger 20,499]

I've asked this question before, but I'll ask again:

If a trans woman (born a man) presented as a woman who was 'your type' - the kind you are normally attracted to in appearance - and she had gotten all of the best surgical changes done to have proper looking lady parts was interested in you, would you date and/or have sex with her?

If not, and she's truly a woman and should be regarded as such in every way, why not?

Assuming we are disregarding extraneous factors - I can't think of a reason why not. Can you?

Well I can. He's a man. He can have a horn surgically implanted in his head but it won't make him a unicorn.

Also I don't believe this is the answer you gave the last time we talked about this.

How are we to know she was born a man?

It was part of the scenario. You know either because the person or someone told you or because despite medical advances and cosmetic appearances, there are still some "hidden" differences that would tip you off.

[homersapien 11,393]

I've asked this question before, but I'll ask again:

If a trans woman (born a man) presented as a woman who was 'your type' - the kind you are normally attracted to in appearance - and she had gotten all of the best surgical changes done to have proper looking lady parts was interested in you, would you date and/or have sex with her?

If not, and she's truly a woman and should be regarded as such in every way, why not?

Assuming we are disregarding extraneous factors - I can't think of a reason why not. Can you?

Well I can. He's a man. He can have a horn surgically implanted in his head but it won't make him a unicorn.

Also I don't believe this is the answer you gave the last time we talked about this.

How are we to know she was born a man?

It was part of the scenario. You know either because the person or someone told you or because despite medical advances and cosmetic appearances, there are still some "hidden" differences that would tip you off.

You didn't specify that initially. But if that's the only way I could know, then my response is the same, depending on what those "hidden" differences were.

How would you react if you didn't find out until after you had established a good relationship with her?

[TitanTiger 20,499]

I've asked this question before, but I'll ask again:

If a trans woman (born a man) presented as a woman who was 'your type' - the kind you are normally attracted to in appearance - and she had gotten all of the best surgical changes done to have proper looking lady parts was interested in you, would you date and/or have sex with her?

If not, and she's truly a woman and should be regarded as such in every way, why not?

Assuming we are disregarding extraneous factors - I can't think of a reason why not. Can you?

Well I can. He's a man. He can have a horn surgically implanted in his head but it won't make him a unicorn.

Also I don't believe this is the answer you gave the last time we talked about this.

How are we to know she was born a man?

It was part of the scenario. You know either because the person or someone told you or because despite medical advances and cosmetic appearances, there are still some "hidden" differences that would tip you off.

You didn't specify that initially. But if that's the only way I could know, then my response is the same, depending on what those "hidden" differences were.

How would you react if you didn't find out until after you had established a good relationship with her?

I would have to break off the relationship, at least any potentially romantic aspects of it. I would try to remain friends and keep lines of communication open, if they were willing.

[Mikey 16,638]

By the way, as I mentioned before, the focus on restrooms is a completely disingenuous redirect to keep people from thinking through the full implications of this mindset on gender and accepting self-declared feelings at face value. From the guidance the Dept of Education is giving schools:

Housing and Overnight Accommodations. Title IX allows a school to provide separate housing on the basis of sex. But a school must allow transgender students to access housing consistent with their gender identity and may not require transgender students to stay in single-occupancy accommodations or to disclose personal information when not required of other students. Nothing in Title IX prohibits a school from honoring a student's voluntary request for single occupancy accommodations if it so chooses.

Just so we're clear, if you're a boarding school or a college and you have single-sex dorms (many college women seek these out for safety and security reasons), you have to accommodate the trans boy who declared he's a girl, regardless of any professional diagnosis and regardless of whether they still have a male body. You also can't make them be in a room by themselves or even notify their roommate (these are often assigned by the school rather than chosen by the students themselves). So an 18 year old girl now has to wonder if the roommate she gets is a biological male with a penis and can't even really feel like she has a modicum of privacy in her own dorm room.

Progress.

Actually that's not clear. There's no requirement that a student accept a transgender room mate.

That wasn't the argument. It was that she can be placed with a transgender roommate and the school may not disclose that to her. Reread this portion:

But a school must allow transgender students to access housing consistent with their gender identity and may not require transgender students to stay in single-occupancy accommodations or to disclose personal information when not required of other students.

The only way she finds out is if the trans person tells her, she happens to see the trans person undressed, or the trans person is just not very "feminine" looking and is a dead giveaway.

I'm sure you can request a new roommate for various reasons. But you shouldn't be thrown into that situation in the first place without any disclosure of that fact ahead of time.

If she can't tell, what's the problem?

You don't see a problem with a female being secretly placed in a room with a biological male with male genitalia? And so long as he can pull it off looks-wise and can sufficiently keep her in the dark about the facts regarding his body, that's no problem? You think the actual girl here doesn't have a right to be told that since, you know, she's living with the person?

Why does this automatically make for a dangerous situation? I had male roommates while I attended Auburn (not on campus obviously). No big deal.

You knew they were male and went into the situation fully informed. That was fine. Also, you obviously conducted your personal activities in a manner differently than you would have had your roommates been all females. The difference here is that Titan's hypothetical girl has been deceived and she's had no clue that her roomie is, in fact, a male. At the very least that would make for a traumatic and embarrassing situation on the day the truth came out.

[homersapien 11,393]

I've asked this question before, but I'll ask again:

If a trans woman (born a man) presented as a woman who was 'your type' - the kind you are normally attracted to in appearance - and she had gotten all of the best surgical changes done to have proper looking lady parts was interested in you, would you date and/or have sex with her?

If not, and she's truly a woman and should be regarded as such in every way, why not?

Assuming we are disregarding extraneous factors - I can't think of a reason why not. Can you?

Well I can. He's a man. He can have a horn surgically implanted in his head but it won't make him a unicorn.

Also I don't believe this is the answer you gave the last time we talked about this.

How are we to know she was born a man?

It was part of the scenario. You know either because the person or someone told you or because despite medical advances and cosmetic appearances, there are still some "hidden" differences that would tip you off.

You didn't specify that initially. But if that's the only way I could know, then my response is the same, depending on what those "hidden" differences were.

How would you react if you didn't find out until after you had established a good relationship with her?

I would have to break off the relationship, at least any potentially romantic aspects of it. I would try to remain friends and keep lines of communication open, if they were willing.

Ah, but at least you would have still had Paris. (jk)

[Strychnine 1,802]

I've asked this question before, but I'll ask again:

If a trans woman (born a man) presented as a woman who was 'your type' - the kind you are normally attracted to in appearance - and she had gotten all of the best surgical changes done to have proper looking lady parts was interested in you, would you date and/or have sex with her?

If not, and she's truly a woman and should be regarded as such in every way, why not?

Assuming we are disregarding extraneous factors - I can't think of a reason why not. Can you?

Well I can. He's a man. He can have a horn surgically implanted in his head but it won't make him a unicorn.

Also I don't believe this is the answer you gave the last time we talked about this.

While you and I obviously disagree on this issue, that was hilarious.

[channonc 466]

By the way, as I mentioned before, the focus on restrooms is a completely disingenuous redirect to keep people from thinking through the full implications of this mindset on gender and accepting self-declared feelings at face value. From the guidance the Dept of Education is giving schools:

Housing and Overnight Accommodations. Title IX allows a school to provide separate housing on the basis of sex. But a school must allow transgender students to access housing consistent with their gender identity and may not require transgender students to stay in single-occupancy accommodations or to disclose personal information when not required of other students. Nothing in Title IX prohibits a school from honoring a student's voluntary request for single occupancy accommodations if it so chooses.

Just so we're clear, if you're a boarding school or a college and you have single-sex dorms (many college women seek these out for safety and security reasons), you have to accommodate the trans boy who declared he's a girl, regardless of any professional diagnosis and regardless of whether they still have a male body. You also can't make them be in a room by themselves or even notify their roommate (these are often assigned by the school rather than chosen by the students themselves). So an 18 year old girl now has to wonder if the roommate she gets is a biological male with a penis and can't even really feel like she has a modicum of privacy in her own dorm room.

Progress.

Actually that's not clear. There's no requirement that a student accept a transgender room mate.

That wasn't the argument. It was that she can be placed with a transgender roommate and the school may not disclose that to her. Reread this portion:

But a school must allow transgender students to access housing consistent with their gender identity and may not require transgender students to stay in single-occupancy accommodations or to disclose personal information when not required of other students.

The only way she finds out is if the trans person tells her, she happens to see the trans person undressed, or the trans person is just not very "feminine" looking and is a dead giveaway.

I'm sure you can request a new roommate for various reasons. But you shouldn't be thrown into that situation in the first place without any disclosure of that fact ahead of time.

If she can't tell, what's the problem?

You don't see a problem with a female being secretly placed in a room with a biological male with male genitalia? And so long as he can pull it off looks-wise and can sufficiently keep her in the dark about the facts regarding his body, that's no problem? You think the actual girl here doesn't have a right to be told that since, you know, she's living with the person?

Why does this automatically make for a dangerous situation? I had male roommates while I attended Auburn (not on campus obviously). No big deal.

You knew they were male and went into the situation fully informed. That was fine. Also, you obviously conducted your personal activities in a manner differently than you would have had your roommates been all females. The difference here is that Titan's hypothetical girl has been deceived and she's had no clue that her roomie is, in fact, a male. At the very least that would make for a traumatic and embarrassing situation on the day the truth came out.

Personally, I see no difference. As Homer suggested up-thread, doesn't a lesbian in this situation potentially pose more of a sexual threat. Oh and, gender has nothing to do with sexuality.

[channonc 466]

Why does this automatically make for a dangerous situation? I had male roommates while I attended Auburn (not on campus obviously). No big deal.

First, I didn't say it was automatically dangerous. Nothing is automatic. But she is choosing to be in a single-sex dorm for a reason and it is most certainly potentially dangerous. It introduces a danger that wouldn't be present otherwise.

Related to that, it is deception. Obviously by choosing a female-only dorm, she has a reasonable expectation that she is not going to be sharing a room with a male body (shocking, I know). And by not disclosing this fact to her, they are violating her privacy. This is not right. And it could even be traumatic if she is suffering from PTSD due to a sexual assault. This just isn't the sort of thing that should be left up to her to discover by happenstance.

"Yeah, sorry we didn't tell you about the person with a penis in your room and that you've been changing in front of them for the past 6 months. Rules are rules though and we can't make them feel uncomfortable or anything. What's that...you were made to feel uncomfortable/unsafe by this? Sorry. We'll move you now. But your comfort and safe feelings weren't really our biggest concern."

These types of situations you pull out though suggest that someone is hiding their "true gender" because they want to assault someone. I would think with HIPPA and other privacy laws, disclosing this type of thing would be a huge violation of someone's privacy and medical condition. You also aren't entitled to not have a disabled roommate, or someone who hasn't been diagnosed with severe depression, who is bipolar. Nor are you entitled to even know such things. If you aren't comfortable with a "blind roommate" situation then you either come to college with a roommate or live off-campus.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

These types of situations you pull out though suggest that someone is hiding their "true gender" because they want to assault someone.

No they don't. But they are hiding their true biological sex. And to most women, telling them you are trans and feel like you are really a woman isn't going to change much about how they feel. And I imagine someone finding out 6 months later that they've been sharing private spaces, changing clothes and so on with a person who is biologically and anatomically male is not going to make them very happy.

And if they are a rape survivor, there's no telling what kind of triggering episode that discovery might be.

I would think with HIPPA and other privacy laws, disclosing this type of thing would be a huge violation of someone's privacy and medical condition. You also aren't entitled to not have a disabled roommate, or someone who hasn't been diagnosed with severe depression, who is bipolar.

But if you chose a single-sex dorm (as a girl), you do have a right and an expectation that you are actually sharing your intimate living quarters with an actual girl. That you aren't going to walk in and discover that your "female" roommate is actually a boy in every way except what they perceive between their ears.

Nor are you entitled to even know such things. If you aren't comfortable with a "blind roommate" situation then you either come to college with a roommate or live off-campus.

There is no such thing as a dorm where you could request "no cripples" or "sighted only." But there are single-sex dorms and they exist for very good reasons. It is not right to put someone in a room with someone who is not a biological female, particularly if they haven't had a sex change operation, and not tell them.

I get that we don't want to unnecessarily bring emotional distress to the trans person here and I'm trying to be nice about this, but they aren't the only person's feelings and concerns that matter here.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

You knew they were male and went into the situation fully informed. That was fine. Also, you obviously conducted your personal activities in a manner differently than you would have had your roommates been all females. The difference here is that Titan's hypothetical girl has been deceived and she's had no clue that her roomie is, in fact, a male. At the very least that would make for a traumatic and embarrassing situation on the day the truth came out.

Personally, I see no difference. As Homer suggested up-thread, doesn't a lesbian in this situation potentially pose more of a sexual thread. Oh and, gender has nothing to do with sexuality.

Well whether you see it or not, there is a difference in you choosing to room with a person with a male body when you are fully informed of that fact up front vs being placed in intimate living quarters with one without your knowledge.

And Mikey made no mention of sexuality.

[channonc 466]

You knew they were male and went into the situation fully informed. That was fine. Also, you obviously conducted your personal activities in a manner differently than you would have had your roommates been all females. The difference here is that Titan's hypothetical girl has been deceived and she's had no clue that her roomie is, in fact, a male. At the very least that would make for a traumatic and embarrassing situation on the day the truth came out.

Personally, I see no difference. As Homer suggested up-thread, doesn't a lesbian in this situation potentially pose more of a sexual thread. Oh and, gender has nothing to do with sexuality.

Well whether you see it or not, there is a difference in you choosing to room with a person with a male body when you are fully informed of that fact up front vs being placed in intimate living quarters with one without your knowledge.

And Mikey made no mention of sexuality.

I totally disagree. And what if they were born male, but their birth certificate, driver's license and everything including school records has been changed to female. Do you have a right to know?

I didn't say he did mention sexuality, but I was getting ahead of the next obvious comment.

[channonc 466]

These types of situations you pull out though suggest that someone is hiding their "true gender" because they want to assault someone.

No they don't. But they are hiding their true biological sex. And to most women, telling them you are trans and feel like you are really a woman isn't going to change much about how they feel. And I imagine someone finding out 6 months later that they've been sharing private spaces, changing clothes and so on with a person who is biologically and anatomically male is not going to make them very happy.

And if they are a rape survivor, there's no telling what kind of triggering episode that discovery might be.

I would think with HIPPA and other privacy laws, disclosing this type of thing would be a huge violation of someone's privacy and medical condition. You also aren't entitled to not have a disabled roommate, or someone who hasn't been diagnosed with severe depression, who is bipolar.

But if you chose a single-sex dorm (as a girl), you do have a right and an expectation that you are actually sharing your intimate living quarters with an actual girl. That you aren't going to walk in and discover that your "female" roommate is actually a boy in every way except what they perceive between their ears.

Nor are you entitled to even know such things. If you aren't comfortable with a "blind roommate" situation then you either come to college with a roommate or live off-campus.

There is no such thing as a dorm where you could request "no cripples" or "sighted only." But there are single-sex dorms and they exist for very good reasons. It is not right to put someone in a room with someone who is not a biological female, particularly if they haven't had a sex change operation, and not tell them.

I get that we don't want to unnecessarily bring emotional distress to the trans person here and I'm trying to be nice about this, but they aren't the only person's feelings and concerns that matter here.

It's very obvious you have not ever spoken to/interacted (knowingly) with someone who is transgender. I don't think you realize just how tough it is. I would just urge you to open your mind a little bit. You don't have to agree, but just try to understand. You keep bringing up your daughters. What is one of them was transgender?

Watch some of these interviews.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

It's very obvious you have not ever spoken to/interacted (knowingly) with someone who is transgender. I don't think you realize just how tough it is. I would just urge you to open your mind a little bit. You don't have to agree, but just try to understand. You keep bringing up your daughters. What is one of them was transgender?

Watch some of these interviews.

You do realize that one can be understanding and feel for their difficulties but still see that this situation is untenable? I'm not proposing that we mistreat anyone, but everyone wants to act as if the feelings and needs of the trans person are all that matter and if you can't get onboard with that you're just some cold-hearted bigot. That simply is not true.

What it seems to me is that the 'pro-trans' side has zero sense of balance here. All that matters is the feelings and concerns of one person and everyone else can go take a flying leap.

It is patently unfair to foist this situation on a person unbeknownst to them. This isn't just a matter of being friendly with someone, or sharing a meal, or working together. This is your roommate. There are very good reasons why, especially a female, would choose a single sex dorm and this directly undermines it not matter how much you want to believe it doesn't because of someone's self-professed feelings.

[TheBlueVue 177]

These types of situations you pull out though suggest that someone is hiding their "true gender" because they want to assault someone.

No they don't. But they are hiding their true biological sex. And to most women, telling them you are trans and feel like you are really a woman isn't going to change much about how they feel. And I imagine someone finding out 6 months later that they've been sharing private spaces, changing clothes and so on with a person who is biologically and anatomically male is not going to make them very happy.

And if they are a rape survivor, there's no telling what kind of triggering episode that discovery might be.

I would think with HIPPA and other privacy laws, disclosing this type of thing would be a huge violation of someone's privacy and medical condition. You also aren't entitled to not have a disabled roommate, or someone who hasn't been diagnosed with severe depression, who is bipolar.

But if you chose a single-sex dorm (as a girl), you do have a right and an expectation that you are actually sharing your intimate living quarters with an actual girl. That you aren't going to walk in and discover that your "female" roommate is actually a boy in every way except what they perceive between their ears.

Nor are you entitled to even know such things. If you aren't comfortable with a "blind roommate" situation then you either come to college with a roommate or live off-campus.

There is no such thing as a dorm where you could request "no cripples" or "sighted only." But there are single-sex dorms and they exist for very good reasons. It is not right to put someone in a room with someone who is not a biological female, particularly if they haven't had a sex change operation, and not tell them.

I get that we don't want to unnecessarily bring emotional distress to the trans person here and I'm trying to be nice about this, but they aren't the only person's feelings and concerns that matter here.

It's very obvious you have not ever spoken to/interacted (knowingly) with someone who is transgender. I don't think you realize just how tough it is. I would just urge you to open your mind a little bit. You don't have to agree, but just try to understand. You keep bringing up your daughters. What is one of them was transgender?

Watch some of these interviews.

Most mental illnesses are very tough. Why would gender dysphoria be any different? I empathize with them and their problems, I simply disagree that I have to be an enabler of that problem by accepting their delusions as reality.

[SaturdayGT 719]

If changing the way public restrooms are used makes half the country uncomfortable, but satisfies less than 1 percent is the country really better off? I cant say I know the difficulties of being transgender but Im guessing they have been able to use public restrooms prior to this law. Just seems to me, left handed people have a harder time with many things more so than transgenders do using public restrooms and left handers make up a much larger percent of the population, why isn't there any big government hubbub about that?...not that Id want one, nor am I left handed...

[channonc 466]

These types of situations you pull out though suggest that someone is hiding their "true gender" because they want to assault someone.

No they don't. But they are hiding their true biological sex. And to most women, telling them you are trans and feel like you are really a woman isn't going to change much about how they feel. And I imagine someone finding out 6 months later that they've been sharing private spaces, changing clothes and so on with a person who is biologically and anatomically male is not going to make them very happy.

And if they are a rape survivor, there's no telling what kind of triggering episode that discovery might be.

I would think with HIPPA and other privacy laws, disclosing this type of thing would be a huge violation of someone's privacy and medical condition. You also aren't entitled to not have a disabled roommate, or someone who hasn't been diagnosed with severe depression, who is bipolar.

But if you chose a single-sex dorm (as a girl), you do have a right and an expectation that you are actually sharing your intimate living quarters with an actual girl. That you aren't going to walk in and discover that your "female" roommate is actually a boy in every way except what they perceive between their ears.

Nor are you entitled to even know such things. If you aren't comfortable with a "blind roommate" situation then you either come to college with a roommate or live off-campus.

There is no such thing as a dorm where you could request "no cripples" or "sighted only." But there are single-sex dorms and they exist for very good reasons. It is not right to put someone in a room with someone who is not a biological female, particularly if they haven't had a sex change operation, and not tell them.

I get that we don't want to unnecessarily bring emotional distress to the trans person here and I'm trying to be nice about this, but they aren't the only person's feelings and concerns that matter here.

It's very obvious you have not ever spoken to/interacted (knowingly) with someone who is transgender. I don't think you realize just how tough it is. I would just urge you to open your mind a little bit. You don't have to agree, but just try to understand. You keep bringing up your daughters. What is one of them was transgender?

Watch some of these interviews.

Most mental illnesses are very tough. Why would gender dysphoria be any different? I empathize with them and their problems, I simply disagree that I have to be an enabler of that problem by accepting their delusions as reality.

APA on transgender treatment

[Strychnine 1,802]

If changing the way public restrooms are used makes half the country uncomfortable, but satisfies less than 1 percent is the country really better off? I cant say I know the difficulties of being transgender but Im guessing they have been able to use public restrooms prior to this law. Just seems to me, left handed people have a harder time with many things more so than transgenders do using public restrooms and left handers make up a much larger percent of the population, why isn't there any big government hubbub about that?...not that Id want one, nor am I left handed...

The few trans women that I know were using the women's restroom (and I assume locker rooms) prior to this becoming the apparent big deal that it has become. I'm not aware of any incidents they experienced. I do know that I have never encountered a trans man or woman in the men's restroom, that I know of at least. I do think sending trans women (they generally look and act like women, many very convincingly) to the men's facilities is likely to create more incidents than existed prior. I did not consider this an issue until it reached its recent critical mass.

[channonc 466]

If changing the way public restrooms are used makes half the country uncomfortable, but satisfies less than 1 percent is the country really better off? I cant say I know the difficulties of being transgender but Im guessing they have been able to use public restrooms prior to this law. Just seems to me, left handed people have a harder time with many things more so than transgenders do using public restrooms and left handers make up a much larger percent of the population, why isn't there any big government hubbub about that?...not that Id want one, nor am I left handed...

The few trans women that I know were using the women's restroom (and I assume locker rooms) prior to this becoming the apparent big deal that it has become. I'm not aware of any incidents they experienced. I do know that I have never encountered a trans man or woman in the men's restroom, that I know of at least. I do think sending trans women (they generally look and act like women, many very convincingly) to the men's facilities is likely to create more incidents than existed prior. I did not consider this an issue until it reached its recent critical mass.

This. And the reverse is true. Imagine a F2M transgender man coming into the woman's restroom. Way more questions than if he had just gone to the men's room. This whole thing creates problems where there were none.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

That might be true if the "whole thing" were just public restrooms. But it isn't.