Trump tried to obstruct justice. But he was too inept to do it.

[homersapien 11,388]

  One of the great ironies of the Mueller report.

The Mueller report shows that ineffectiveness kept the president from more legal jeopardy.

Reading the redacted report by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III on Thursday felt like reading the story of a particularly clumsy mob boss. President Trump’s longtime former lawyer, Michael Cohen, is told: “The boss loves you.” “Everyone knows the boss has your back.” Trump’s former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, gets the message: “Sit tight.” You will be “taken care of” as a result. Trump himself says of his former campaign chairman Paul Manafort: Thank you for not flipping. You are so “very brave.”

Except that Trump doesn’t appear to have been anywhere near as effective as the fictional gangsters he resembles in Mueller’s work.

Perhaps one of the most striking takeaways from the report is the degree to which the president and those close to him tried their very best to coerce, coordinate and conspire — and ultimately break the law — but couldn’t quite succeed in doing so. Failure may be the key thing that has, at least for now, saved Trump and his immediate family members from indictment.

[Trump borrows his rhetoric — and his view of power — from the mob]

The report’s first part carefully details the Russian-directed efforts at “information warfare,” including a campaign to support Trump and denigrate Hillary Clinton on social media and the hacking and dissemination of Clinton campaign emails. As the report emphasizes, these appear to be the independent activities of Russian-based actors, engaged in their own geopolitical goals.

But the report also highlights all the ways the Trump campaign sought to benefit from that effort, albeit likely without realizing it was a Russian intelligence operation. When Donald Trump Jr. receives an email that the “Crown prosecutor of Russia” was offering dirt on the Clinton campaign as “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump,” he acts with glee. Within minutes, he writes back, “If it’s what you say I love it.” He set up the meeting and announced a “lead” on negative Clinton information at a Trump campaign meeting.

Read the rest at:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/04/19/trump-tried-obstruct-justice-he-was-too-inept-do-it/?utm_term=.8b5575b242d7

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

Another way to look at it is Trump’s administration is not full of “yes” men that will do whatever he wants. There are people of integrity that provide checks and balances as it should be.  This is good news.  Trump is a political rookie and it shows and it could have cost him the Presidency. 

One could speculate that the Russian Collusion story was dead early on and the investigation was continued to see if Trump would obstruct justice.  But nah, that would never happen in politics.

[auburn41 492]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Another way to look at it is Trump’s administration is not full of “yes” men that will do whatever he wants. There are people of integrity that provide checks and balances as it should be.  This is good news.  Trump is a political rookie and it shows and it could have cost him the Presidency. 

One could speculate that the Russian Collusion story was dead early on and the investigation was continued to see if Trump would obstruct justice.  But nah, that would never happen in politics.

I’d like to know how early on in the investigation Mueller and his team knew there was no “collusion or conspiracy.”  If he has known since before the last election, shouldn’t he have been compelled to let the American people know that?  I’m sure that would have made some voters change their votes in the last cycle!

[homersapien 11,388]

The article linked was more about obstruction, not conspiracy.

 

"..........But it is with respect to obstruction of justice that Trump’s incompetence in getting what he wants really stands out — and it’s his inability to accomplish what he sets out to that ultimately protects him. Trump tries to put an end to the FBI investigation into and ultimate prosecution of Flynn. When various other efforts fail, he meets with then FBI-Director James B. Comey one-on-one, urging that Comey “see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go.” Comey (as we all know now) refuses. Trump tells his chief intelligence officers, including the director of national intelligence and director of the CIA, to publicly assert that there is no link between him and Russia. The intelligence officials refuse to do so.

[Trump's problem isn't that he has bad lawyers. It's that he's a bad client.]

Trump eventually fires Comey, thinking that will put an end to the investigation. But the Justice Department appoints Mueller as special counsel, and the Russia investigation continues. A panicked Trump tells aides, “This is the end of my presidency. I’m ******.” He steps into high gear, trying multiple means of limiting, controlling and ultimately putting an end to Mueller’s investigation.

Just about every effort fails.

He tries to get Mueller dismissed for an alleged conflict of interest. But Justice Department ethics officials, Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein and White House Counsel Donald McGahn all disagree. The investigation continues.

Trump raises it up a notch, telling McGahn to order Mueller fired — effectively attempting a rerun of the “Saturday Night Massacre,” the infamous evening in 1973 when then-special counsel Archibald Cox was fired at the behest of President Richard Nixon over the Watergate investigation. But like Elliott Richardson before him, McGahn refuses to carry out the order and threatens to resign instead. Unlike Nixon, Trump caves.

Trump’s orders that then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions un-recuse himself from the Russia probe, step in and limit Mueller’s ambit. Sessions says no. Trump instructs aides to tell Sessions to deliver a prepackaged speech that will limit the scope of the special counsel to election meddling only. But the aides never pass on the request. Trump tells aides to demand that Sessions resign. Aides again avoid ever delivering the message. Sessions, the report says, eventually gets so fed up with Trump’s public belittling of him that he starts carrying a signed resignation letter with him to every meeting at the White House. (He was finally pushed out in November.)

Various attempts to cajole and intimidate key witnesses likewise fail. After a few months of lying for the president, Trump’s longtime personal lawyer and fixer, Cohen, flips and enters a plea deal, quickly shifting status from beloved loyalist to “rat.” Trump’s attacks on Cohen’s family — namely repeated suggestions that Cohen’s father-in-law and wife committed crimes — fail to change Cohen’s mind.

Flynn, too, eventually talks, ignoring the desperate urging that he continue to provide the White House a “heads up” about the prosecution. Numerous former campaign officials and associates talk to the special counsel, providing detailed information about the campaign and White House conversations that now make up the substance of the report.

[What's in Flynn's plea deal shouldn't scare the White House. What isn't should.]

A central piece of the story is how little Trump is and was able to control. Despite his very best efforts, key members of his team refused or avoided what were clearly unlawful orders. In so doing, they took critically important, even if limited and self-protective, steps to protect the integrity of the investigation and thus the rule of law. It is the one bright side of what has emerged.

But there are too many dark sides to count. We now have, thanks to the Mueller report, a detailed accounting of an attempted president-dictator. We have a president who sought to cover up and get all those around him to cover up campaign contacts with Russians; to cajole and then ultimately threaten witnesses into lying; to interfere with ongoing law enforcement investigations; to run the executive branch like an arm of the mafia.

And we now have, in William P. Barr, an attorney general who is willing to spin the report with an advance news conference; to defend Trump’s obstructive actions and attempt on the grounds that he felt “frustrated and angry”; and to misrepresent Mueller’s reasons for not recommending an obstruction charge.

Contrary to Trump’s claim, this report is not an exoneration. And certainly not a total exoneration. Yes, Mueller concluded that there was insufficient evidence to charge conspiracy with the Russians or campaign-finance violations. And he did not even attempt to reach a conclusion on obstruction of justice, thanks in significant part to the Justice Department’s long-standing conclusion that sitting presidents can’t be criminally prosecuted while in office. But he also could not have been more explicit that he was not clearing the president of wrongdoing: “While this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it does not exonerate him.”

Mueller’s report tells a damning story of Trump’s efforts to use the power of the presidency to protect himself and his close family members. Had he been more effective, he would have shut down one of the most important inquiries into the threats posed to our democracy by a sophisticated foreign adversary. And then, maybe, he would have succeeded in getting himself impeached, or charged, or both."

[jj3jordan 2,056]

Did any indictments or criminal referrals come out of the report?  Maybe Trump isn't so inept after all. If you believe there is any possible way to throw an election.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

1 minute ago, jj3jordan said:

Did any indictments or criminal referrals come out of the report?  Maybe Trump isn't so inept after all. If you believe there is any possible way to throw an election.

Did you really ask that question?  Some folks are already serving time.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/mar/25/who-has-already-been-indicted-russia-investigation/

[homersapien 11,388]

2 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Did any indictments or criminal referrals come out of the report?  Maybe Trump isn't so inept after all. If you believe there is any possible way to throw an election.

Mueller didn't feel he had the prerogative to issue an indictment to the president due to DoJ policy.  Did you not know that?  I think Mueller even stated - or implied - that was up to Congress.

Otherwise, there were indictments of people other than the president as well as "criminal referrals" relating to the president.

[homersapien 11,388]

On 4/21/2019 at 11:57 AM, I_M4_AU said:

Another way to look at it is Trump’s administration is not full of “yes” men that will do whatever he wants. There are people of integrity that provide checks and balances as it should be.  This is good news.  Trump is a political rookie and it shows and it could have cost him the Presidency. 

One could speculate that the Russian Collusion story was dead early on and the investigation was continued to see if Trump would obstruct justice.  But nah, that would never happen in politics.

I think "yes men" refers to instinctive responses regarding opinions and advice.

Presidential subordinates are generally expected to execute orders or instructions from the president.  In this case, they refused because they apparently knew more than Trump did about what he was ordering them to do.

I suppose one could call that a "good thing", but to me it just reveals a president that doesn't know - or care - about what he's doing. 

I think it's kind of scary thinking we are better off having unknown staff members make executive decisions because our president is incompetent.  But I see your point.

I prefer to think of "checks and balances" as applying to the branches of government instead of within the administration.  But we already know - or should know - Trump likes to pit his staff against each other.

(see  "Team of Vipers" by Chris Sims)

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I think "yes men" refers to instinctive responses regarding opinions and advice.

Presidential subordinates are generally expected to execute orders or instructions from the president.  In this case, they refused because they apparently knew more than Trump did about what he was ordering them to do.

I suppose one could call that a "good thing", but to me it just reveals a president that doesn't know - or care - about what he's doing. 

I think it's kind of scary thinking we are better off having unknown staff members make executive decisions because our president is incompetent.  But I see your point.

I prefer to think of "checks and balances" as applying to the branches of government instead of within the administration.  But we already know - or should know - Trump likes to pit his staff against each other.

(See "Team of Vipers" by Chris Sims)

I agree with most of what you posted.  The simple fact that these subordinates had the integrity to balk at Trump is how an organization should work.  If you are the boss, you should surround yourself with people who will give you good advice and it is up to you, as the boss, to accept that advise or not.   Reluctantly, Trump accepted the advise (refusal of an order) and he is still the President.

As much as it pains you, after the Muller Report, it would be better for the nation just to move on.

[homersapien 11,388]

15 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I agree with most of what you posted.  The simple fact that these subordinates had the integrity to balk at Trump is how an organization should work.  If you are the boss, you should surround yourself with people who will give you good advice and it is up to you, as the boss, to accept that advise or not.   Reluctantly, Trump accepted the advise (refusal of an order) and he is still the President.

As much as it pains you, after the Muller Report, it would be better for the nation just to move on.

What gave you the idea that the Mueller report "pains me"?   Thanks to the principle-less Republicans, impeachment was never going to be an options to get Trump out of office.

We'll be hearing a lot more from Mueller via congressional hearings.  I think it portrays a devastating image of Trump and that can only help to vote him out.

And every day he's in office is a bad day for the country.

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

10 minutes ago, homersapien said:

What gave you the idea that the Mueller report "pains me"?   Thanks to the principle-less Republicans, impeachment was never going to be an options to get Trump out of office.

We'll be hearing a lot more from Mueller via congressional hearings.  I think it portrays a devastating image of Trump and that can only help to vote him out.

And every day he's in office is a bad day for the country.

The Mueller report is not the cause of the pain, moving on is what pains you.  You’re last sentence confirms that.

[DKW 86 7,426]

25 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

The Mueller report is not the cause of the pain, moving on is what pains you.  You’re last sentence confirms that.

All in all, I agree with the article. If not for his subordinates, then Trump would have violated law over and over. Kind of funny actually, he is just as unqualified as everyone thought he was. The professionals in his administration did right.

[homersapien 11,388]

22 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

The Mueller report is not the cause of the pain, moving on is what pains you.  You’re last sentence confirms that.

Well, thanks for explaining what pains me and what doesn't.

Yes, I admit that having Trump represent the US - much less setting policy - pains me, as it undoubtedly does to any thinking person. Nov. 2020 can't get here fast enough.

Like I said, every single day he's in office is a bad day for the future of the country.  Here's just one example:

Trump races against clock to roll back major Obama-era environment rules

The administration’s lengthy slate of rollbacks will slow progress on reducing air pollution and greenhouse gases that warm the planet, health experts say

excerpt:

.......Trump officials are weakening a rule that would speed a shift away from electricity made from burning coal – which causes early deaths and spews heat-trapping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. They are also loosening standards for how companies discard coal ash, despite the fact that it is spilling into waterways in North Carolina following Hurricane Florence.

Trump agencies are freezing mandates that new cars use less gasoline and pollute less, and they are cutting limits on potent methane gas released by the oil industry. They are rescinding an effort to give the federal government jurisdiction over more waterways. The EPA is also rejecting science that shows some pesticides make people sick.....

 

Do you have children? 

[homersapien 11,388]

15 ways the Trump administration has changed environmental policies

For the past three years, National Geographic has been tracking how this administration's decisions will influence air, water, and wildlife.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/02/15-ways-trump-administration-impacted-environment/

[AUFAN78 3,911]

On 4/21/2019 at 11:12 AM, homersapien said:

The article linked was more about obstruction, not conspiracy.

 

"..........But it is with respect to obstruction of justice that Trump’s incompetence in getting what he wants really stands out — and it’s his inability to accomplish what he sets out to that ultimately protects him. Trump tries to put an end to the FBI investigation into and ultimate prosecution of Flynn. When various other efforts fail, he meets with then FBI-Director James B. Comey one-on-one, urging that Comey “see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go.” Comey (as we all know now) refuses. Trump tells his chief intelligence officers, including the director of national intelligence and director of the CIA, to publicly assert that there is no link between him and Russia. The intelligence officials refuse to do so.

[Trump's problem isn't that he has bad lawyers. It's that he's a bad client.]

Trump eventually fires Comey, thinking that will put an end to the investigation. But the Justice Department appoints Mueller as special counsel, and the Russia investigation continues. A panicked Trump tells aides, “This is the end of my presidency. I’m ******.” He steps into high gear, trying multiple means of limiting, controlling and ultimately putting an end to Mueller’s investigation.

Just about every effort fails.

He tries to get Mueller dismissed for an alleged conflict of interest. But Justice Department ethics officials, Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein and White House Counsel Donald McGahn all disagree. The investigation continues.

Trump raises it up a notch, telling McGahn to order Mueller fired — effectively attempting a rerun of the “Saturday Night Massacre,” the infamous evening in 1973 when then-special counsel Archibald Cox was fired at the behest of President Richard Nixon over the Watergate investigation. But like Elliott Richardson before him, McGahn refuses to carry out the order and threatens to resign instead. Unlike Nixon, Trump caves.

Trump’s orders that then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions un-recuse himself from the Russia probe, step in and limit Mueller’s ambit. Sessions says no. Trump instructs aides to tell Sessions to deliver a prepackaged speech that will limit the scope of the special counsel to election meddling only. But the aides never pass on the request. Trump tells aides to demand that Sessions resign. Aides again avoid ever delivering the message. Sessions, the report says, eventually gets so fed up with Trump’s public belittling of him that he starts carrying a signed resignation letter with him to every meeting at the White House. (He was finally pushed out in November.)

Various attempts to cajole and intimidate key witnesses likewise fail. After a few months of lying for the president, Trump’s longtime personal lawyer and fixer, Cohen, flips and enters a plea deal, quickly shifting status from beloved loyalist to “rat.” Trump’s attacks on Cohen’s family — namely repeated suggestions that Cohen’s father-in-law and wife committed crimes — fail to change Cohen’s mind.

Flynn, too, eventually talks, ignoring the desperate urging that he continue to provide the White House a “heads up” about the prosecution. Numerous former campaign officials and associates talk to the special counsel, providing detailed information about the campaign and White House conversations that now make up the substance of the report.

[What's in Flynn's plea deal shouldn't scare the White House. What isn't should.]

A central piece of the story is how little Trump is and was able to control. Despite his very best efforts, key members of his team refused or avoided what were clearly unlawful orders. In so doing, they took critically important, even if limited and self-protective, steps to protect the integrity of the investigation and thus the rule of law. It is the one bright side of what has emerged.

But there are too many dark sides to count. We now have, thanks to the Mueller report, a detailed accounting of an attempted president-dictator. We have a president who sought to cover up and get all those around him to cover up campaign contacts with Russians; to cajole and then ultimately threaten witnesses into lying; to interfere with ongoing law enforcement investigations; to run the executive branch like an arm of the mafia.

And we now have, in William P. Barr, an attorney general who is willing to spin the report with an advance news conference; to defend Trump’s obstructive actions and attempt on the grounds that he felt “frustrated and angry”; and to misrepresent Mueller’s reasons for not recommending an obstruction charge.

Contrary to Trump’s claim, this report is not an exoneration. And certainly not a total exoneration. Yes, Mueller concluded that there was insufficient evidence to charge conspiracy with the Russians or campaign-finance violations. And he did not even attempt to reach a conclusion on obstruction of justice, thanks in significant part to the Justice Department’s long-standing conclusion that sitting presidents can’t be criminally prosecuted while in office. But he also could not have been more explicit that he was not clearing the president of wrongdoing: “While this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it does not exonerate him.”

Mueller’s report tells a damning story of Trump’s efforts to use the power of the presidency to protect himself and his close family members. Had he been more effective, he would have shut down one of the most important inquiries into the threats posed to our democracy by a sophisticated foreign adversary. And then, maybe, he would have succeeded in getting himself impeached, or charged, or both."

To much WAPO. Had real evidence shown collusion or obstruction Trump would have been or potentially could still be impeached. Not as complicated as some try to make it.

Look, I think you've already bought a bunch of crap sold on liberal sites. They know you. Know that. 

[AUFAN78 3,911]

On 4/21/2019 at 10:57 AM, I_M4_AU said:

Another way to look at it is Trump’s administration is not full of “yes” men that will do whatever he wants.

Happens in every presidency, just not reported. #butthurt

[TitanTiger 20,499]

On 4/21/2019 at 10:57 AM, I_M4_AU said:

Another way to look at it is Trump’s administration is not full of “yes” men that will do whatever he wants. There are people of integrity that provide checks and balances as it should be.  This is good news.  Trump is a political rookie and it shows and it could have cost him the Presidency. 

One could speculate that the Russian Collusion story was dead early on and the investigation was continued to see if Trump would obstruct justice.  But nah, that would never happen in politics.

In other words, he's lucky.  Because what he wants is yes men. 

[homersapien 11,388]

14 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

To much WAPO. Had real evidence shown collusion or obstruction Trump would have been or potentially could still be impeached. Not as complicated as some try to make it.

Look, I think you've already bought a bunch of crap sold on liberal sites. They know you. Know that. 

Real evidence has been shown to support charges of obstruction. And there is probably more coming.

Evidence has also been shown to support collusion - if not enough to establish criminal conspiracy.

We knew that even before Mueller's report came out.

You would be better served by not buying the crap that comes out of Trump's mouth.  He's a habitual liar.  You knew that didn't you?

[homersapien 11,388]

23 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

The Mueller report is not the cause of the pain, moving on is what pains you.  You’re last sentence confirms that.

What do you mean by "moving on"?

Trump is the same person he's always been and he's not going to change.  So "move on" from what?

Hell, I'll welcome "moving on" to another president.  Anyone would be better than Trump.

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

15 minutes ago, homersapien said:

What do you mean by "moving on"?

Trump is the same person he's always been and he's not going to change.  So "move on" from what?

Hell, I'll welcome "moving on" to another president.  Anyone would be better than Trump.

By moving on I mean put the disappointment of the Mueller Report’s findings behind you and concentrate on getting another President.

 

[homersapien 11,388]

44 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

By moving on I mean put the disappointment of the Mueller Report’s findings behind you and concentrate on getting another President.

 

Who said I was disappointed in the Mueller's report findings?

Like I said, impeachment was never in play due to the Republicans lack of principles. (This is unfortunate for the country as I think a genuine case can be made for impeachment due to obstruction, which is part of the Mueller report. )

I am focused on the 2020 election and the Mueller report provides a ton of grist for that mill.

[alexava 6,973]

https://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFKCN1RY19J

[DKW 86 7,426]

18 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

By moving on I mean put the disappointment of the Mueller Report’s findings behind you and concentrate on getting another President.

 

Just quit. You are just wasting time in your life. He has already wasted almost all of his. Dont let him waste anymore of yours. Reason, rationality, soundness of mind have completely escaped him...

[homersapien 11,388]

8 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Just quit. You are just wasting time in your life. He has already wasted almost all of his. Dont let him waste anymore of yours. Reason, rationality, soundness of mind have completely escaped him...

Well, it seems like you have more than enough time to waste on your weird obsession with me.

Please ignore me and I will return the favor.  Don't waste your time.   No one cares about your obsession with me.  Just quit.

 

[DKW 86 7,426]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Well, it seems like you have more than enough time to waste on your weird obsession with me.

Please ignore me and I will return the favor.  Don't waste your time.   No one cares about your obsession with me.  Just quit.

 

I tried that months ago, remember...You wouldnt let it go then.