Hardest job in America

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

6 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

i blame leath. jj made what was a reasonable hire back then and folks were excited. it is almost like the 2013 game for the natty shook him or something to get so close and lose with just a few seconds on the clock.

That's a cute story but the bottom line is Gus' offensive tendencies have been figured out by elite DC's and he has struggled to sign and develop highly rated QBs and OL.  Even his RB recruiting has been fairly average which is perplexing considering how run heavy his offense is.

Also, calling Gus a "reasonable hire" is a pretty big stretch.

[aubiefifty 16,915]

4 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

That's a cute story but the bottom line is Gus' offensive tendencies have been figured out by elite DC's and he has struggled to sign and develop highly rated QBs and OL.  Even his RB recruiting has been fairly average which is perplexing considering how run heavy his offense is.

gus has two great qb.s now. he knows how his tendencies have hurt him and has spoken out about changing the way he substitutes players as well to not give anything away. he just made a huge change at rb coach which i think will provide huge bennies down the road. so he is aware of stuff and working on it. you might as well hold on because you have at the least one more year of it and possibly two. i know you think thats cute as well...............

[aujeff11 6,243]

17 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

 

Apparently he was only a G5 HC for one year. Can’t be true.

[auburnphan 6,050]

46 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

it is not fair to call jj's raising money kissing butt. i am willing to bet he changed a lot of lives for the better doing what he did. and to be fair when gus was given the head coaching job most folks were ecstatic we got him at the time. your anger should be towards those that gave gus the big money with a huge buyout or we probably have a different head coach today.

Whatever, fundraising is all about butt kissing. It is a compliment.  I went back and read threads, Gus was not the preferred choice and most did not have confidence in JJ to make the hirer.  Most people wanted a proven winner with a track record of success.  Almost nobody thought it was a great hirer, good yes.  Lots of risk, yes.  Do you not remember the never ending the SEC is not where you learn to be a head coach and run a program stance.  I got no anger about a football coach, my life is not that pathetic.

[aujeff11 6,243]

18 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

That's a cute story but the bottom line is Gus' offensive tendencies have been figured out by elite DC's and he has struggled to sign and develop highly rated QBs and OL.  Even his RB recruiting has been fairly average which is perplexing considering how run heavy his offense is.

Also, calling Gus a "reasonable hire" is a pretty big stretch.

You must be one of the “Gus makes me miserable”  fans. 

 

[Tiger 8,830]

40 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

So Gus only worked at Tulsa and Arkansas state and didn’t work at Auburn or Arkansas as an assistant?

You're right. I did not word my post well at all. 

But @dyehardfanAU touched on my greater point. We hired a guy who had limited experience at the college level and who's coaching tree is pretty sad. Kirby's is more impressive. And he was coaching D1 ball and in the NFL all while Gus was calling plays for high schoolers. That is a big difference and I think it shows now 

[aubiefifty 16,915]

2 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

Whatever, fundraising is all about butt kissing. It is a compliment.  I went back and read threads, Gus was not the preferred choice and most did not have confidence in JJ to make the hirer.  Most people wanted a proven winner with a track record of success.  Almost nobody thought it was a great hirer, good yes.  Lots of risk, yes.  Do you not remember the never ending the SEC is not where you learn to be a head coach and run a program stance.  I got no anger about a football coach, my life is not that pathetic.

fair enough on the butt kissing. and yes i know coaches do not  learn to coach on the job in the sec. i have been following auburn football most of my 64 years off life so i have heard all that. and i still remember a lot of folks thought it was a great hire so we will just differ on opinion.

[AU64 10,122]

8 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

You must be one of the “Gus makes me miserable”  fans. 

 

Yep....and blew up KS's resume to the point even he might not recognize it....was a GA under Bowden and was primarily a position coach up to the point that some AU people had an interest in him and mostly we did not even know if he was calling the defenses though I think Nick publicly chewed him out pretty good when AU beat them when Gus was running the AU offense.  And where is the poster who recently ranted about AU hiring "up and comers" and guys with no HC experience?  

   

[auburnphan 6,050]

20 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

fair enough on the butt kissing. and yes i know coaches do not  learn to coach on the job in the sec. i have been following auburn football most of my 64 years off life so i have heard all that. and i still remember a lot of folks thought it was a great hire so we will just differ on opinion.

I guess the point I was trying to make is that JJ didn’t have the confidence to go after the big splash hirer back then. Gus is what we expected to get, which people were happy about. But he was nobody’s dream coach.  JJ’s growth as the AD was realizing he needed to go after the best. Myers was huge in the softball world.  Bruce Pearl enough said.  Being able to pull Thompson when he did, unbelievable.   

JJ could sell Auburn, I just think he didn’t know how good he could do it back then and didn’t go for the home run and went safe.

[aujeff11 6,243]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

You're right. I did not word my post well at all. 

But @dyehardfanAU touched on my greater point. We hired a guy who had limited experience at the college level and who's coaching tree is pretty sad. Kirby's is more impressive. And he was coaching D1 ball and in the NFL all while Gus was calling plays for high schoolers. That is a big difference and I think it shows now 

Kirby learned a lot as Saban’s dude but Malzahn is one of six dudes to win the Broyles and then win National Head Coach of the Year. Point being it’s not like we struck  the bottom of the barrel with Gus. Can’t always look at coaching pedigree as its in an inexact science. Dabo was merely a WR coach appointed to interim HC after a cluster**** and was expected to finish the season and turn out the lights for the next coaching staff. Meanwhile Muschamp and Derek Dooley are right there with the same pedigree as Kirby. They were all on the same coaching staff at LSU.

[aujeff11 6,243]

29 minutes ago, AU64 said:

And where is the poster who recently ranted about AU hiring "up and comers" and guys with no HC experience?  

“Up and comer” was how we described Tony Barbee. 

People don’t forget lol although they better get used to it and hope we hold our mouth just right and win the lottery. Jimbo is under contract and don’t see Bob Stoops nor Urban Meyer coming to Auburn. We will be hiring Brohm or even worst, Bill Clark. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

And to clarify, Bill Clark wouldn’t be the worst hire out there. It just would be among the least exciting hires ever at Auburn. 

[doc4aday 1,887]

On 5/22/2019 at 9:26 AM, WarDamnEagleWDE said:

Oh boy. You don't always have to have the best talent. LSU has been average at best the last 8 years. All the talent in the world. Same with uga and A&M. bama also before Saban. Yeah, you need to recruit at a high level. But you damn sure better develop the players you have and be able to adapt to their strengths. A top 15 class, with some difference makers, can have you competing for championships on a regular basis, as long as you have some good coaching and development mixed in. Gus has the recruiting down pretty good, just not the other important parts. And has shown he is either to dumb or stubborn to make that change.

Your last sentence, what makes you think it's just some pressure that will want Green to make a change? That Greene can't think for himself as an AD and that only pressure will make him want to change? That is just nonsense. Greene will want to make the change when he thinks the change is needed. Won't be because of the pressure from the fans. I can tell you this with 100% certain.

You hit the nail on the head my friend!

[doc4aday 1,887]

I just hope we have the kind of season in 2019 that will make us happy...Not sure if it will happen...but then again you never know till you play the games and come out on top God willing. I am curious to see how it is going to play out. Last year I said that Kentucky would go 10-2 and they almost did. I predicted that we would beat Purdue 70-14 and almost got it right.

My tea leaves tell me we will go 9-3 in 2019. My coffee grinds tell me we will go 8-4. My dog Max tells me we will go 11-1.  Max is a big dreamer for such a short legged little devil!

 

[abw0004 10,134]

10 hours ago, doc4aday said:

I just hope we have the kind of season in 2019 that will make us happy...Not sure if it will happen...but then again you never know till you play the games and come out on top God willing. I am curious to see how it is going to play out. Last year I said that Kentucky would go 10-2 and they almost did. I predicted that we would beat Purdue 70-14 and almost got it right.

My tea leaves tell me we will go 9-3 in 2019. My coffee grinds tell me we will go 8-4. My dog Max tells me we will go 11-1.  Max is a big dreamer for such a short legged little devil!

I like Max.  Let's go with Max.

[keesler 5,928]

12 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

“Up and comer” was how we described Tony Barbee. 

People don’t forget lol although they better get used to it and hope we hold our mouth just right and win the lottery. Jimbo is under contract and don’t see Bob Stoops nor Urban Meyer coming to Auburn. We will be hiring Brohm or even worst, Bill Clark. 

True!

 

[keesler 5,928]

13 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

gus has two great qb.s now. he knows how his tendencies have hurt him and has spoken out about changing the way he substitutes players as well to not give anything away. he just made a huge change at rb coach which i think will provide huge bennies down the road. so he is aware of stuff and working on it. you might as well hold on because you have at the least one more year of it and possibly two. i know you think thats cute as well...............

50, you are one of the most positive posters on this board.  kudos!

Gus has known his tendencies for years.  It feels like Gus is constantly twisting and turning this team upside down forcing him to tell us all that he'll "turning this thing around."  He has acknowledged his deficiencies many times in the past few years, he has assured the fan base that things will improve. 

The fact of the matter has been that he is either so daft that he doesn't know how to change or else he's too stubborn to do so.  I'm going with the latter.

I agree 100% with you that we may as well hold on and get through at least 1-2 more seasons, at least until some of this exorbitant buyout dwindles down to an acceptable level.

Year     Salary        Buyout

2019     $6.8mm     $26.6 mm

2020      6.9mm       21.5mm

2021     7mm             16.2mm

2022     7.1mm          10.8mm

2023     7.2mm          5.5mm

 

[Tiger 8,830]

13 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

Kirby learned a lot as Saban’s dude but Malzahn is one of six dudes to win the Broyles and then win National Head Coach of the Year. Point being it’s not like we struck  the bottom of the barrel with Gus. Can’t always look at coaching pedigree as its in an inexact science. Dabo was merely a WR coach appointed to interim HC after a cluster**** and was expected to finish the season and turn out the lights for the next coaching staff. Meanwhile Muschamp and Derek Dooley are right there with the same pedigree as Kirby. They were all on the same coaching staff at LSU.

Not saying Gus is bottom of the barrel. He is a touch above average IMO. He gets exposed against teams that recruit the same caliber of player as us as his record against UGA/Bama/LSU/Clemson indicates and he looks fantastic against overmatched teams. He has had a great season, a good season, and the other 4 seasons have been clunkers (8 wins should be our program's floor, I don't think that's unreasonable for a program with national and conference title aspirations -- and he's actually failed to even meet the floor once with the 7 win season while only getting us to our floor the rest of the time). You're right coaching pedigree is an inexact science but I'd rather my guy been in and around top programs and top coaches rather than the likes of Gene Chizik and Todd Graham. As it stands today who's record would you rather have? Kirby's or Gus'?

Our program can win titles. We've proven to be able to do it. Imagine if we get a good or a great coach. The good thing is that our AD office at least wants to find a better coach we just couldn't do it last year because of the obscene contract situation. I just want our program to realize it's potential. If we can win a national title in the modern era and be mere seconds away from a 2nd a few seasons later, I have to think we'd go on a Clemson type of tear if we just pop the lid off this thing. 

Pivoting a bit, do you defend Gus because you feel the criticism is unfair and/or gets old on here or do you defend Gus because you truly believe Gus is the guy to take Auburn to the heights we want?

[abw0004 10,134]

35 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Pivoting a bit, do you defend Gus because you feel the criticism is unfair and/or gets old on here or do you defend Gus because you truly believe Gus is the guy to take Auburn to the heights we want?

I don't know about Jeff, but I will wade in if that is alright.  I do think Gus is overly criticized.  I also think many on here are fair in their criticism because they look at things in a neutral light.  Examples of those posters would be DAG, Bird, and you.  So those posts carry more weight because you are also not afraid to complement when earned.  There are others on here that have no other purpose than to vent and bash on here.  I am even okay with that which is why I have not posted on the football side much lately, but what frustrates me is when those people on here do not give credit when due and downplay it.  I raised this question to a poster on this thread just yesterday with Jay Jacobs and his involvement with hiring Pearl and Thompson.  They would not give him credit saying those two coaches were given to Jacobs and he did not deserve the credit.  When I asked for reasoning behind this, their response was this was a fact.  When I probed further on how this was a fact I received no explanation.  It has to get tiring after a while to go on every thread and find a way to make it about Gus.  I would not be surprised when I make my annual hype video thread next week someone will try to complain that there is no point in watching the videos because Gus is still the head coach (I will police this and make a rule not to allow this like I normally do to combat that).

To your second question I believe Gus does have what it takes to bring us what we desire.  He has done this before.  Sometimes fans can be short-minded on accomplishments in general for all sports, inside or outside of Auburn, college or pros.  One thing I have noticed is once Gus finally realizes a decision is the correct one, he will adapt to it.  A key example was when he let Steele have full control of his defense.  Apparently Gus is now letting Grimes do his thing in recruiting.  This season will be the catalyst however for Malzahn.  This offense will be solely his to run, and he will either succeed his way or go down down swinging his way.  That is why I am just ready for the season to start so these questions can be answered on the field.

And for the record I do understand why this topic has been discussed to oblivion.  You have been on here a while to know at this time of the year there isn't much to talk about so divisive topics like this are brought up.  At the beginning of the year last year another topic was Carlton Davis sitting out the bowl game.  It happens, so no hard feelings, but it does get tiresome.  I hope that makes sense, and with all the respect in the world.

[aujeff11 6,243]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

Not saying Gus is bottom of the barrel.

Others are criticizing his hiring process as if it was just an ad hoc group formed around around criteria of keeping the hire in the family. I think hiring based on pedigree is a good measure but can still yield the same product as Gus or worse: Derek Dooley, Muschamp, Mcelwain, Ron Zook, etc. 

 

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

You're right coaching pedigree is an inexact science but I'd rather my guy been in and around top programs and top coaches rather than the likes of Gene Chizik and Todd Graham

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

He gets exposed against teams that recruit the same caliber of player as us as his record against UGA/Bama/LSU/Clemson indicates and he looks fantastic against overmatched teams.

Yet he is the only coach left in the SEC that has demonstrated that he can defeat ultra talented Saban’s squad and he’s done it twice, so we know it’s not really the talent that’s the issue. His issue is not keeping up with the depth chart that can allow his system to work. There is an introduction to my own criticism. 

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

Pivoting a bit, do you defend Gus because you feel the criticism is unfair and/or gets old on here or do you defend Gus because you truly believe Gus is the guy to take Auburn to the heights we want?

See above for reference in how I feel about Gus. I do think there is a higher ceiling that can be achieved to what we’ve already achieved. As for criticisms that I think is unfair. There are a few criticisms that I’ve gone after but some that Gus can eat. As for tired of hearing the constant criticism: I believe the win loss record to start every season  is 0-0, so I begin with  hope every year. Yet there are “Gus makes me miserable and if he wins next season I’m going to be even more miserable ” fans and they try to suck the positivity out of every thread possible. 

So yeah that gets old. 

[Tiger 8,830]

44 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

I don't know about Jeff, but I will wade in if that is alright.  I do think Gus is overly criticized.  I also think many on here are fair in their criticism because they look at things in a neutral light.  Examples of those posters would be DAG, Bird, and you.  So those posts carry more weight because you are also not afraid to complement when earned.  There are others on here that have no other purpose than to vent and bash on here.  I am even okay with that which is why I have not posted on the football side much lately, but what frustrates me is when those people on here do not give credit when due and downplay it.  I raised this question to a poster on this thread just yesterday with Jay Jacobs and his involvement with hiring Pearl and Thompson.  They would not give him credit saying those two coaches were given to Jacobs and he did not deserve the credit.  When I asked for reasoning behind this, their response was this was a fact.  When I probed further on how this was a fact I received no explanation.  It has to get tiring after a while to go on every thread and find a way to make it about Gus.  I would not be surprised when I make my annual hype video thread next week someone will try to complain that there is no point in watching the videos because Gus is still the head coach (I will police this and make a rule not to allow this like I normally do to combat that).

To your second question I believe Gus does have what it takes to bring us what we desire.  He has done this before.  Sometimes fans can be short-minded on accomplishments in general for all sports, inside or outside of Auburn, college or pros.  One thing I have noticed is once Gus finally realizes a decision is the correct one, he will adapt to it.  A key example was when he let Steele have full control of his defense.  Apparently Gus is now letting Grimes do his thing in recruiting.  This season will be the catalyst however for Malzahn.  This offense will be solely his to run, and he will either succeed his way or go down down swinging his way.  That is why I am just ready for the season to start so these questions can be answered on the field.

And for the record I do understand why this topic has been discussed to oblivion.  You have been on here a while to know at this time of the year there isn't much to talk about so divisive topics like this are brought up.  At the beginning of the year last year another topic was Carlton Davis sitting out the bowl game.  It happens, so no hard feelings, but it does get tiresome.  I hope that makes sense, and with all the respect in the world.

Good post. Thanks for replying. I can understand your viewpoint and can see how posts with the intent to bash just to bash can get tiresome. The JJ/Pearl/Thompson thing for example. That is annoying and gives us that aren't happy with Gus (or xAD JJ) but without the trolling and use data and trends to formulate and articulate our opinions a bad name (to some) by association.

You bring up good points about trusting Gus to get back to his old self. I respect your opinion as we've seen him do it before. To me, however, I've just been "burned" enough. It was hard for me to let go of my hope for Gus and those good times but eventually I cracked during LSU 2017, got back on board during Amen Corner, and then off again for the last time after making the remedial mistake of not trying to change the gameplan from a few weeks prior. That plus him showing, yet again, that he did not develop proper RB depth by giving guys reps in games. But that's been discussed non-stop so I'll stop there. Which comes back to your point about the off-season not giving us much to talk about other than the previous year which we did not do so well, and the Purdue game helped a little bit for the first few months of the off-season but not a whole lot. I really think the quality and mood of the board would improve if our record does (duhhh). I can understand how it gets tiresome just as our coach being perennially on the hot seat is tiresome. 

Also, hey if he does manage to turn it around and learn from mistakes and find a way to bring some sustained success (which to be frank doesn't look too promising considering how our OL will look like next year), I'll be the first to say he's the man and we should keep him just like I did during 2017 when Arky came calling. But he reverted back to his old self of being predictable etc so now here we are. And the talking points won't change until we see some game action unfortunately...it's going to be a long road to late August.

Can't wait to see your hype video!

[keesler 5,928]

17 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

i blame leath. jj made what was a reasonable hire back then and folks were excited. it is almost like the 2013 game for the natty shook him or something to get so close and lose with just a few seconds on the clock. i think he lost his way and struggled. personally i will never diss gus because he helped us get one natty and came real close on another. but leath is the cat that messed things up. anyway i want to see the gus that whip the crackers out of bama and ga. it is in him somewhere. i also realize no one is willing to wait forever for him to get it together. most coaches now would use auburn like boom to tread water until something better came along. at least i know gus loves auburn and we would be better off if he would just get it together. but i also understand people will only wait so long.

I think if we step back and put ourselves in Leath's shoes at the time, he did the best he could under the circumstances.  The minute the man clocked in at AU he was faced with an Athletic Department in turmoil and riddled in scandal.  He stepped into:

1 - The middle of the Sunny Galloway lawsuit that had been going on for 20 mos before settlement on a wrongful termination case.

2 - August '17  - AU softball player alleges abuse and sexual harassment from an AU Coach who was later terminated

3 - Sept '17 - AU Asst Chuck Person faces 6 federal indictments, he + 2 more assts are terminated and 2 players on a full season suspension

4 - Oct '17  A former AU tutor alleges that she took final exams for at least one football player

5 - Oct '17  Former AU asst track coach sues AU for discrimination 

That's 5 (FIVE) AU Athletic programs in stink of some sort.  Things were so dysfunctional that Leath had to hire a outside investigative firm just to wade through all the crap in the AD.  He eventually had to terminate a long standing AU AD (Jacobs) then hire a replacement.  

So by the time the end of Nov '17 the only bright spot in the entire AD was Auburn (Gus) was kicking the asses of uga/uat and they were headed to ATL for a Championship run.  So when Gus/Jimmy Sexton sat down at the table and bent the AU Admin over ...... Leath did what he thought was best at the time.  

 

[Tiger 8,830]

20 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Others are criticizing his hiring process as if it was just an ad hoc group formed around around criteria of keeping the hire in the family. I think hiring based on pedigree is a good measure but can still yield the same product as Gus or worse: Derek Dooley, Muschamp, Mcelwain, Ron Zook, etc. 

^ True

Yet he is the only coach left in the SEC that has demonstrated that he can defeat ultra talented Saban’s squad and he’s done it twice, so we know it’s not really the talent that’s the issue. His issue is not keeping up with the depth chart that can allow his system to work. There is an introduction to my own criticism. 

^ Yup he's done it twice and as you said it's not like we're talent deficient. Agree on depth chart issues.

See above for reference in how I feel about Gus. I do think there is a higher ceiling that can be achieved to what we’ve already achieved. As for criticisms that I think is unfair. There are a few criticisms that I’ve gone after but some that Gus can eat. As for tired of hearing the constant criticism: I believe the win loss record to start every season starts at 0-0 and begin with  hope every year. Yet there are “Gus makes me miserable and if he wins next season I’m going to be even more miserable ” fans and they try to suck the positivity out of every thread possible. 

So yeah that gets old. 

^ I can get that. For me, it takes him too long to learn from his mistakes. He will fix one for a game or 2 then the same issue will pop back up. I hate more than anything how far too often Gus is just sandbagging it by running up the gut constantly and not showing our entire offense like using crossing routes/slants etc in non-Bama/UGA games. With our yearly schedule we have such little margin for error that we cannot afford to be dropping games that we shouldn't be if we have our sights set on division/conference/national championships. 

 

[keesler 5,928]

7 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I can understand how it gets tiresome just as our coach being perennially on the hot seat is tiresome. 

Only Gus can get his tail off that perennial hot seat.  I have a feeling AD Greene has stepped back, pulled out some of the meddlers within the AD that had too much influence and Greene will let Gus work this out all by himself.  At the same time, I think Greene hopes for the best but is wise enough to prepare for the worst.  I give them best wishes for a much better season ahead.

 

[GwillMac6 20,749]

2 hours ago, Tiger said:

Not saying Gus is bottom of the barrel. He is a touch above average IMO. He gets exposed against teams that recruit the same caliber of player as us as his record against UGA/Bama/LSU/Clemson indicates and he looks fantastic against overmatched teams. He has had a great season, a good season, and the other 4 seasons have been clunkers (8 wins should be our program's floor, I don't think that's unreasonable for a program with national and conference title aspirations -- and he's actually failed to even meet the floor once with the 7 win season while only getting us to our floor the rest of the time). You're right coaching pedigree is an inexact science but I'd rather my guy been in and around top programs and top coaches rather than the likes of Gene Chizik and Todd Graham. As it stands today who's record would you rather have? Kirby's or Gus'?

Our program can win titles. We've proven to be able to do it. Imagine if we get a good or a great coach. The good thing is that our AD office at least wants to find a better coach we just couldn't do it last year because of the obscene contract situation. I just want our program to realize it's potential. If we can win a national title in the modern era and be mere seconds away from a 2nd a few seasons later, I have to think we'd go on a Clemson type of tear if we just pop the lid off this thing. 

Pivoting a bit, do you defend Gus because you feel the criticism is unfair and/or gets old on here or do you defend Gus because you truly believe Gus is the guy to take Auburn to the heights we want?