Hardest job in America

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

2 hours ago, ellitor said:

I never said, implied, nor claimed that it did. Do you honestly think I'm that stupid or naive??? All I said was Keith said it's an additional challenge on the trail. Things can be challenges without being deciding factor. For example, I have cerebral palsy but it does not affect my life or decisions on a real level. As I said before. It's on the HC to win more so there isn't the added challenge of our fans' bellyaching on the trail.Pick it up @WarDamnEagleWDE. Your reading interpretation skills are usually better than that.

It’s no different than what other fans do. Kieth is acting like this is new with that comment. Fan’s bitch, water is wet. If this staff is saying this to Kieth then they are done. 

[Tiger 8,830]

Didn't Kevin Steele say something like AU fans are the biggest hindrance on the recruiting trail because opposing coaches run with our complaints? Am I making that up?

[aubiefifty 16,915]

23 minutes ago, keesler said:

The Auburn Administration most definitely looks reactionary after Gus & Jimmy Sexton bent them over a barrel in '17 and fleeced them for a $49MM/7yr contract.  

Hopefully now that he's the official OC & play caller he will be totally unencumbered to run this thing to the top of the mountain or straight into the ground.  Yet again, it's put up or shut up time and there are no excuses. (I said the same damn thing in '15, '16, etc.)

i agree. it is all on him. he gets to do it his way so if he fails it is all on him. what is so maddening to me is i bet if he fails here and if he does not get another head coaching job at a lesser school it would not surprise me if he was a oc at another school and lit the scoreboard up. something has been missing kinda like bird says. he used to coach with a mean streak and loved to dominate the other teams defenses. so i hope he comes out swinging and dominating again like he did perdue. if not, unless we get really lucky then we have to break  in a new coach who has to install new o's and d's and i believe historically that means a bad year or two before things start clicking. i would rather see auburn keep gus and hire the best o guy  around even if we have to pay more. gus has run a decent program for the most part from what i have seen and i would hate to hire some cat that can win but does so with thugs and ends up embarrassing Auburn year after year. and i wonder why greene has not told gus to go visit clemson or oklahoma to get a different vie point as to the way others have run a program with high success rates. maybe gus is too proud or there is some other reason that i do not understand. but coordinators win games and if it was me i would hire the best of the best coordinators i could get. even ol bear went west for help and he domintated with the wishbone for years.

[aubiefifty 16,915]

the point was made that the fans negativity hurt auburn. i believe most kids hope when they go to a school to play for certain coaches that they get to play for them and not have to transition to another staff. maybe these new kids do not think like that but i would bet many recruiters would attack auburn by telling kids the coaching staff they want to play for will be gone.

[gr82be 14,472]

18 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

the point was made that the fans negativity hurt auburn. i believe most kids hope when they go to a school to play for certain coaches that they get to play for them and not have to transition to another staff. maybe these new kids do not think like that but i would bet many recruiters would attack auburn by telling kids the coaching staff they want to play for will be gone.

Probably some truth to that but apparently they are only telling 1 WR for every 10 OT's they tell. 

[WalkingCarpet 1,379]

3 minutes ago, gr82be said:

Probably some truth to that but apparently they are only telling 1 WR for every 10 OT's they tell. 

Gus has done a lot of good things for the program but his blind spots continue to be baffling. We've only recruited about half as many scholarship linemen as the rest of the league over the last five years. You can't sustain that. 

[keesler 5,928]

20 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

i agree. it is all on him. he gets to do it his way so if he fails it is all on him. what is so maddening to me is i bet if he fails here and if he does not get another head coaching job at a lesser school it would not surprise me if he was a oc at another school and lit the scoreboard up. something has been missing kinda like bird says. he used to coach with a mean streak and loved to dominate the other teams defenses. so i hope he comes out swinging and dominating again like he did perdue. if not, unless we get really lucky then we have to break  in a new coach who has to install new o's and d's and i believe historically that means a bad year or two before things start clicking. i would rather see auburn keep gus and hire the best o guy  around even if we have to pay more. gus has run a decent program for the most part from what i have seen and i would hate to hire some cat that can win but does so with thugs and ends up embarrassing Auburn year after year. and i wonder why greene has not told gus to go visit clemson or oklahoma to get a different vie point as to the way others have run a program with high success rates. maybe gus is too proud or there is some other reason that i do not understand. but coordinators win games and if it was me i would hire the best of the best coordinators i could get. even ol bear went west for help and he domintated with the wishbone for years.

Good post '50.

We feel a little differently about the current situation though.  I'm not sure Gus coached with mean streak, he was driven with deception.  He wanted to trick, expose and deceive defenses and it worked......for a while. All the HUNH/fast-pace/quick to the line and turn the switcheroo by not letting the defense sub players was genius..... at one time. He liked to catch the opponent off guard, out of position and he'd tire them out with the constant motion behind the line and he'd catch them flat footed and winded.  When the equal substitution rules changed a huge part of his "scheme" was shot and he hasn't recovered.  

All I know is he's recruited his players, hired his coaches and ran his offense since he'e been here and the result is mediocrity.  He's a good man and he runs a clean program, I give him credit for that.  But coaches are paid to win and in this conference you can't turn in 25 losses in a 5 yr stretch while you are pulling +$5-7MM/yr in salary in that same time frame.  

[WFE12 9,191]

Who wants to bet that this thread is more entertaining than the season will be?

[twilli13 600]

On 5/22/2019 at 9:02 AM, GwillMac6 said:

Thank you for always managing to want to cap the ceiling of our program and limit what we can accomplish. We are the biggest sleeping giant in the sport and there is no ceiling with the right coach. 

Thank you. Exactly. With the right coach, we can keep pace with those teams. Dont give me the argument oh because we arent the big state school and have inherent recruiting disadvantages we will never be able to keep up. UGA raised their recruiting profile from good to great not because of some inherent built in advantage, but because their coach now is a tireless and relentless damn worker on the recruiting trail. Clemson was mediocre at best before Dabo changed the culture. Culture change and winning comes from the coaches running the program, not some inherent advantage. Look at Bama before Saban...i wont even include Shula, because he was garbage, but they were nothing  elite in my lifetime (starting watching football in 1988) before Saban came to town. Them being  Bama was nothing special until they got a great coach. Wtf have any of our last 3 or 4 coaches done outside working for Auburn? You could make an easy argument the pinnacle of career success for Bowden, Tuberville, and Chizik all came at Auburn. My point is none of them were elite. We get an elite guy, we will take off. Bank it.  

[aubiefifty 16,915]

1 hour ago, keesler said:

Good post '50.

We feel a little differently about the current situation though.  I'm not sure Gus coached with mean streak, he was driven with deception.  He wanted to trick, expose and deceive defenses and it worked......for a while. All the HUNH/fast-pace/quick to the line and turn the switcheroo by not letting the defense sub players was genius at one time. He liked to catch the opponent off guard, out of position and he'd tire them out with the constant motion behind the line and he'd catch them flat footed and winded.  When the equal substitution rules changed a huge part of his "scheme" was shot and he hasn't recovered.  

All I know is he's recruited his players, hired his coaches and ran his offense since he'e been here and the result is mediocrity.  He's a good man and he runs a clean program, I give him credit for that.  But coaches are paid to win and in this conference you can't turn in 25 losses in a 5 yr stretch while you are pulling +$5-7MM/yr in salary in that same time frame.  

i think most of what you said was fair but by mean streak i was agreeing that gus liked to run the score up and was more aggressive. he was more like our last ball game. now it seems he plays more afraid to lose like running up the middle a million times trying to run the clock out against lsu. but i have read him talking about he understands his certain groupings of players often gave what he would do. i believe he has a plan to fix that. was there not a game last year where the other teams coach was pretty much calling the plays gus would run and was mostly dead on? maybe tennessee? anyway he knows it is all on him so if he fails it is on him. but as always i will support him and the team until he is gone. some of you call it sunshine pumping i call it loyalty. and i will give the same courtesy unless it is petrino or someone. god i would lose my frigging mind.

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

3 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

i think most of what you said was fair but by mean streak i was agreeing that gus liked to run the score up and was more aggressive. he was more like our last ball game. now it seems he plays more afraid to lose like running up the middle a million times trying to run the clock out against lsu. but i have read him talking about he understands his certain groupings of players often gave what he would do. i believe he has a plan to fix that. was there not a game last year where the other teams coach was pretty much calling the plays gus would run and was mostly dead on? maybe tennessee? anyway he knows it is all on him so if he fails it is on him. but as always i will support him and the team until he is gone. some of you call it sunshine pumping i call it loyalty. and i will give the same courtesy unless it is petrino or someone. god i would lose my frigging mind.

There's nothing disloyal with regard to pointing out Gus is in over his head.  And yes, Pruitt has Gus' number and has for several years. 

[aubiefifty 16,915]

8 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

There's nothing disloyal with regard to pointing out Gus is in over his head.  And yes, Pruitt has Gus' number and has for several years. 

lets turn this around a minute. if gus does happen to turn it around and wins ten games and has shown a lot of improvement will you support him?

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

2 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

lets turn this around a minute. if gus does happen to turn it around and wins ten games and has shown a lot of improvement will you support him?

If you mean this season then no, but I'll be happy for the players.   Gus' will have to show consistency before I trust or support him.  He's not shown that he can effectively manage a program or recruit to need and those are as much a part of his job as what he does on fall Saturdays.

[aubiefifty 16,915]

so if he wins ten games with one of the hardest schedules in the nation you would not support him enough to give him another year?

2 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

If you mean this season then no, but I'll be happy for the players.   Gus' will have to show consistency before I trust or support him.  He's not shown that he can effectively manage a program or recruit to need and those are as much a part of his job as what he does on fall Saturdays.

 

[Gowebb11 9,382]

So the fans negativity hurts us on the recruiting trail. Which fans? The ones rushing the field after Kick 6, or the ones who were deafening and beyond electric in the 2017 UGA and Bama games. Or the ones from the countess iconic scenes of rolling Toomers. Do recruits have not exposure to those fans? I would say 8-5 seasons after being ranked in the Top 10, or blowing 21 point leads in SEC games, or giving up several hundred yards of rushing yards vs MSU might have a greater negative recruiting impact than fan negativity. 

[tbone4jc 2,241]

15 hours ago, DAG said:

So you think last year’s Clemson team would’ve loss against anyone on Bama’s schedule? 

We were one win away from the playoffs in 2016? You don’t even know what you are talking about? If you mean 2017 that’s true (ending up losing two straight) and then the next year we were back to losing to the likes of Tennessee and Mississippi State. Get real. The inconsistency needs to stop. We should be consistency competing to be in the playoffs. 

And I am no Gus basher either. I am one of the few who gives the man the benefit of a doubt and got killed over it. But what I am not going to do is feel sorry for him or Auburn. I am not going to gloss over the inconsistency and I am going to hold him accountable based on the contract he is earning and the support he is getting. 

Like I said I love discussions like this. I actually have time today so later one I think I am going to break down Auburn schedule since 2013 with Gus being HC and see how accurate the challenge is for Gus to compete consistently at a high level. Since the challenge it so unfair and hard I really want to take a look as to why we can’t have a consistent 9 win team (this is where I think we should be based on our talent, resources, etc).

Yes I do. Texas A&M 28-26 ,Syracuse 27-23. In the SEC west they would loose 1-2 games every year. They play in the ACC. Last season they were very good but they don't have to go through the grind every week, every year, LSU, Ga, Bama, A&M. The defense in the SEC are heads and shoulders above any other conference.  Who do they play in the ACC that compares to LSU and Death Valley , Bama, Even Miss. St has a defense that is better than all ACC teams outside of Clemson. Dabo is a great coach and he hires great asst. Coaches but to think Clemson would go undefeated in the SEC is ludacris. My blunder on the mix up about years, honest mistake.

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

1 hour ago, aubiefifty said:

so if he wins ten games with one of the hardest schedules in the nation you would not support him enough to give him another year?

 

Of course 10 wins gives him another season, but that doesn't mean I have to "support him".

[twilli13 600]

21 minutes ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Of course 10 wins gives him another season, but that doesn't mean I have to "support him".

The thing that sucks is if we win 10 games this year, Gus gets breathing room and the decision makers will start riding the'we have monument' wave, failing to see the roster deficiencies past this year (losing possibly top 3 d lineman) and all 5 senior starting o lineman. I dont care how good the other position players are, unless you can replace those lineman with little drop off, the team is in for a fall. Especially at o line, no way that's happening. We dont have the horses in the stable. I hope Allen Green, being a former athlete, is a little more realistic in his future analysis of Gus's worth. 

[DAG 34,018]

1 hour ago, tbone4jc said:

Yes I do. Texas A&M 28-26 ,Syracuse 27-23. In the SEC west they would loose 1-2 games every year. They play in the ACC. Last season they were very good but they don't have to go through the grind every week, every year, LSU, Ga, Bama, A&M. The defense in the SEC are heads and shoulders above any other conference.  Who do they play in the ACC that compares to LSU and Death Valley , Bama, Even Miss. St has a defense that is better than all ACC teams outside of Clemson. Dabo is a great coach and he hires great asst. Coaches but to think Clemson would go undefeated in the SEC is ludacris. My blunder on the mix up about years, honest mistake.

How are you going to say they would lose based on that ? Lol that’s silly. Mind you they won with their 3 string QB against Syracuse. So you think Mississippi state could stop Clemson of last year ? They put up a total of zero points against Bama.  Yeah how Ludacris of me to think a team who annihilated Alabama , a team who pretty much slept walk through the SEC , could possibly go undefeated in the SEC.  Not to mention blasting Notre Dame prior to that.How bizarre of me to even suggest such a thing. There are zero teams in the ACC who is liken to your comparisons but they did play two premier SEC West teams and beat them as well. Let me ask you this, how many SEC west teams played a team like Clemson and how did that go?

LSU? Lol. The same LSU that couldn’t even put up a FG against Bama at Death Valley. I would love to see how their QB could handle the Clemson defensive line. Arkansas? Ole miss? Auburn ? What two teams in the SEC West would beat Clemson of last year? They already played Bama and the aggies. Enlighten me? I just don’t understand the logic in this. Didn’t Alabama go undefeated last year? Was there any doubt that Clemson was the best team last year when they played? So if Alabama of last year found a way to go undefeated , how come Clemson couldn’t do the same?

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

19 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

The thing that sucks is if we win 10 games this year, Gus gets breathing room and the decision makers will start riding the'we have monument' wave, failing to see the roster deficiencies past this year (losing possibly top 3 d lineman) and all 5 senior starting o lineman. I dont care how good the other position players are, unless you can replace those lineman with little drop off, the team is in for a fall. Especially at o line, no way that's happening. We dont have the horses in the stable. I hope Allen Green, being a former athlete, is a little more realistic in his future analysis of Gus's worth. 

Yep.  So far he's shown he's an awful program manager and has an inability to recruit to future needs.  One good season after averaging 5 losses a year isn't going to convince me he's not going to just fail for years to come.

[James Howell 80]

Pat Dye always said that control what you can control.  Meaning it should not matter who the coach is over in jawja so if auburn people are fretting on who is head coach over there means that they believe gus cant contend with kirby if that is the case auburn should be searching for a new coach.  

The guy is also wrong by saying if you fire gus; Auburn should have someone in the wings ready to take over.  Auburn should conduct a thorough coaching search.  

Having said that paging Dennis Allen, Auburn on the phone.

 

[tbone4jc 2,241]

1 hour ago, DAG said:

How are you going to say they would lose based on that ? Lol that’s silly. Mind you they won with their 3 string QB against Syracuse. So you think Mississippi state could stop Clemson of last year ? They put up a total of zero points against Bama.  Yeah how Ludacris of me to think a team who annihilated Alabama , a team who pretty much slept walk through the SEC , could possibly go undefeated in the SEC.  Not to mention blasting Notre Dame prior to that.How bizarre of me to even suggest such a thing. There are zero teams in the ACC who is liken to your comparisons but they did play two premier SEC West teams and beat them as well. Let me ask you this, how many SEC west teams played a team like Clemson and how did that go?

LSU? Lol. The same LSU that couldn’t even put up a FG against Bama at Death Valley. I would love to see how their QB could handle the Clemson defensive line. Arkansas? Ole miss? Auburn ? What two teams in the SEC West would beat Clemson of last year? They already played Bama and the aggies. Enlighten me? I just don’t understand the logic in this. Didn’t Alabama go undefeated last year? Was there any doubt that Clemson was the best team last year when they played? So if Alabama of last year found a way to go undefeated , how come Clemson couldn’t do the same?

Again. ACC<SEC. Switch Bama to the ACC , it would be too easy. The ACC doesn't have the talent,  ESPECIALLY on defense. Clemson plays 2-3 tough games a year including the playoffs. Most SEC teams play 5-7 top 25 teams with too tier defenses. I am not saying Clemson isn't good, but they do not play the same level of competition 

[DAG 34,018]

5 minutes ago, tbone4jc said:

Again. ACC<SEC. Switch Bama to the ACC , it would be too easy. The ACC doesn't have the talent,  ESPECIALLY on defense. Clemson plays 2-3 tough games a year including the playoffs. Most SEC teams play 5-7 top 25 teams with too tier defenses. I am not saying Clemson isn't good, but they do not play the same level of competition 

Nobody ever said Clemson played the same strength of schedule. I am saying the Clemson of last year definitely could go undefeated in the SEC. Now, you said that the Clemson last year would lose 1-2 games in the SEC West. I want you to tell me what other team left in the SEC West would beat them. I have already conceded that the ACC is nowhere near as strong as the SEC as a whole, BUT the ACC did have one team that was better than every other team in the nation. You are arguing ACC vs SEC and I am talking about Clemson. What good is it if you switch Alabama? What point does that make? They could beat every team by 100 in the ACC but if they lose to Clemson who the hell cares?

[tbone4jc 2,241]

6 minutes ago, DAG said:

Nobody ever said Clemson played the same strength of schedule. I am saying the Clemson of last year definitely could go undefeated in the SEC. Now, you said that the Clemson last year would lose 1-2 games in the SEC West. I want you to tell me what other team left in the SEC West would beat them. I have already conceded that the ACC is nowhere near as strong as the SEC as a whole, BUT the ACC did have one team that was better than every other team in the nation.

I don't see it. Week in and week out grind of SEC football takes a toll. High pressure games almost every week takes its toll. No biggie, its okay to disagree. You make good points, I make good points. You see 6, I see 9. War Eagle!

[keesler 5,928]

16 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

so if he wins ten games with one of the hardest schedules in the nation you would not support him enough to give him another year?

 

IMO, Gus will get another year regardless.  I'm still in the camp that says $35.5MM is a hell of a lot of money with his salary + buyout that's what AU would have to fork out at the end of '19.  The problem with mediocrity is that it's hard to can a good coach and Gus is just good while he pulls a great salary.