Hardest job in America

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

23 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

No im not saying Gus forgot how to recruit. Anyone who says that is lying, or selling something. He has signed close to a top 10 class every season. Player development and retention are two different stories though. As far as getting to tge point, my point is clear. It isnt my fault if you cant comprehend what im saying. I can see from reactions on the post you are quoting that others get what im saying. 

 

There's a huge difference between recruiting for points/place and recruiting for need.  Gus has by all measure failed to recruit for need.

[aujeff11 6,243]

39 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

It IS Gus' fault that no other RB was ready when KJ was CLEARLY not even 50%. 

No. Cant get backs “ready” when there aren’t backs capable of stepping in. Why are you lost in this? 

39 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

If Gus didnt have a plan for the likes of KMart or Barrett (who was recruited as a RB and was at RB at the time) then why recruit them? 

I don’t know why Gus didn’t like Barrett at RB. I’ll bet your house that Gus wanted an SEC championship and would’ve used any serviceable back he could have to take the pressure off of Stidham that game. 

39 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

No im not saying Gus forgot how to recruit. Anyone who says that is lying, or selling something. He has signed close to a top 10 class every season. Player development and retention are two different stories though. As far as getting to tge point, my point is clear. It isnt my fault if you cant comprehend what im saying. I can see from reactions on the post you are quoting that others get what im saying. 

“But Gus” is not an argument. You may have strength in numbers around here in that regard but that doesn’t mean your argument is any more credible than mine. Before the season kicked off, it was widely assumed that Gus had one of the best backfields in the SEC with Kerryon and Pettway as APB, Kam as change of pace, and Barrett as a TF. That’s not a bad depth chart. When Pettway got dismissed, things changed. Kerryon was the only full time back left. Gus could’ve tried harder to make Kam Martin work as an APB (and would’ve failed: Kam still hasn’t proven anything to this day despite the extra muscle,) but he was realistic about the quality of his few options and rode with his injured star. THATS ALL THERE IS TO IT. 

39 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

And to your last comment... I dont even know how to respond. How does "Well then do it. Don’t just tell me what you can do without actually doing it" have ANYTHING to do with saying that i dont care what he did after college?

It was a joke about your grammar, DA.

39 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

We could of had Jackson true. But Gus didnt hand pick Jackson over Evans like he did JF3

Says who? I think JF3 was Lashlee guy but they are both to blame in both situations. Who says he didn't personally snub Jackson of an offer?

39 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

You feeling ok Jeff? You normally make more sense then this. Your last few comments to me have just about put you on par with Mikey, 64, and the other defend at all costs crowd...

I bash Gus all the time. He’s going to deserve it when I do it, too. When he’s being bashed because the third team guy isn’t ready to be a star, I’m pushing back. Lol if y’all thought Kam Martin was about to be the Tre Smith against Roquan and company. JF3 came in as a known project. It’s not surprising that it fell through. 

[WalkingCarpet 1,379]

20 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

Minus a disaster season, I believe Gus will be around another season.  Sexton will try to control the conversation of starting a freshman quarterback in the media.  He will smear Auburn through National Media types complicating our job search  If they don't have the perfect coach lined up the hit the Auburn brand could take might not be worth it.

Totally agreed about having our guy lined up before we pull the trigger, we don't need to end up with Derek Dooley. In practice it probably matters how we lose if it comes to that. If we have a total howler against Ole Miss or Arkansas the drumbeat will be deafening and there's going to be some phone calls made. If there's signs of improvement by the end of the year and we keep it close in our losses he'll deserve another year. I think people put too much stock in media fallout, the national types will talk about it for a few days and then the next shiny object will come along and then everyone will forget we're changing coaches. I don't think many people remember our little dalliance with Maybe-Bob-Stoops back in February. I listen to sports talk a heck of a lot at work and nobody on ESPN radio has mentioned that in months. We got bagged on pretty hard for firing Chizik, nobody cared after a few weeks and the media has an even shorter attention span now than in did in 2012. 

[I_M4_AU 8,004]

1 hour ago, aujeff11 said:

That’s speculation. I think Gus used the best candidate that could help us win. We already saw what JF3 could do against Vanderbilt.  

Agree to disagree here.  

[twilli13 600]

3 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

No. Cant get backs “ready” when there aren’t backs capable of stepping in. Why are you lost in this? 

I don’t know why Gus didn’t like Barrett at RB. I’ll bet your house that Gus wanted an SEC championship and would’ve used any serviceable back he could have to take the pressure off of Stidham that game. 

“But Gus” is not an argument. You may have strength in numbers around here in that regard but that doesn’t mean your argument is any more credible than mine. Before the season kicked off, it was widely assumed that Gus had one of the best backfields in the SEC with Kerryon and Pettway as APB, Kam as change of pace, and Barrett as a TF. That’s not a bad depth chart. When Pettway got dismissed, things changed. Kerryon was the only full time back left. Gus could’ve tried harder to make Kam Martin work as an APB (and would’ve failed: Kam still hasn’t proven anything to this day despite the extra muscle,) but he was realistic about the quality of his few options and rode with his injured star. THATS ALL THERE IS TO IT. 

It was a joke about your grammar, DA.

Says who? I think JF3 was Lashlee guy but they are both to blame in both situations. Who says he didn't personally snub Jackson of an offer?

I bash Gus all the time. He’s going to deserve it when I do it, too. When he’s being bashed because the third team guy isn’t ready to be a star, I’m pushing back. Lol if y’all thought Kam Martin was about to be the Tre Smith against Roquan and company. JF3 came in as a known project. It’s not surprising that it fell through. 

I haven't followed the whole argument, but I imagine his point was that Kam Martin was not an SEC caliber back other than a change of pace guy. Size and power wise, no matter how good Kam got, he was not going to be the kind of pounder that's needed in a Gus run, then hurry up tempo, then run right up the middle again offense. Gus didnt have a third string guy ready who was even SEC caliber. In a run heavy offense, I'd say that was on him no matter what preseason expectations were. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

3 hours ago, twilli13 said:

Gus didnt have a third string guy ready who was even SEC caliber.

I mean it’s not like he tried.

[twilli13 600]

9 hours ago, aujeff11 said:

I mean it’s not like he tried.

He didnt recruit anyone sec caliber as a third back. So I'd say he didnt. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

24 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

He didnt recruit anyone sec caliber as a third back. So I'd say he didnt. 

Yes he did.

[twilli13 600]

6 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Yes he did.

Lol. Who, pray tell, was this mystery sec caliber back Gus recruited but never used. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

53 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

Lol. Who, pray tell, was this mystery sec caliber back Gus recruited but never used. 

You do realize that you can recruit but   whiff on backs  right?

Also, Gus might have expected more progression out of Kam.

[AU64 10,122]

JMO but you recruit for need but in the case of many schools, including AU,  you sign the best athletes you can sign and do the best you can with them.  . 

As an aside, but this OP is not just about Gus.....IMO it's about any Auburn football coach.     You can go back as far as you like to see that except for rare occasions we were mostly in the middle of the pack....in recruiting and in results. 

[auburnphan 6,050]

20 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

You do realize that you can recruit but   whiff on backs  right?

Also, Gus might have expected more progression out of Kam.

I really don,t think there was much thought about his recruitment.  It was more opportunity after getting his release/decommitment from Baylor.  Briles might have been a role in it cuz they were talking a ton at that time.

[auburnphan 6,050]

7 minutes ago, AU64 said:

JMO but you recruit for need but in the case of many schools, including AU,  you sign the best athletes you can sign and do the best you can with them.  . 

As an aside, but this OP is not just about Gus.....IMO it's about any Auburn football coach.     You can go back as far as you like to see that except for rare occasions we were mostly in the middle of the pack....in recruiting and in results. 

I can agree with this to an extent.  I think everyone agrees Gus has failed at offensive tackle recruiting.  Most high school guards can not be offensive tackles in college.  Most high school offensive tackles can play guard in college. Should have been strategy in some way.

Also going back to Tubs we have had these large offensive line classes followed by small classes.  If we wiff or have an injury we get nothing out of that class. It has been a repeat cycle until we just stopped adding tackles.  You see it at other schools too, but they have seemed to fix that one time huge class with more balanced classes.  For some reason we have never gotten out of that cycle.

[AU64 10,122]

8 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

I can agree with this to an extent.  I think everyone agrees Gus has failed at offensive tackle recruiting.  Most high school guards can not be offensive tackles in college.  Most high school offensive tackles can play guard in college. Should have been strategy in some way.

Also going back to Tubs we have had these large offensive line classes followed by small classes.  If we wiff or have an injury we get nothing out of that class. It has been a repeat cycle until we just stopped adding tackles.  You see it at other schools too, but they have seemed to fix that one time huge class with more balanced classes.  For some reason we have never gotten out of that cycle.

Good commentary...my disagreement is with the "conventional wisdom" on this site,,...…. that Gus does not go after his "needs".   Where as I'm of the view that he and his assistants know their needs and go after them....just that we don't get them all the time.    HS talent runs up and down in Alabama and many other states where we typically have good results....and if the talent in not in Alabama and west Georgia, we often come up short in some positions.   ....which in my view explains why we end up signing a lot of guys the end of the cycle to get the numbers...guys we don't "need" but are perhaps too good to just pass up.  There is a pretty good list of guy who were barely on the radar during the recruiting period and then get signed by  AU....Boobee recently and I think D J Williams is in that category too...and who end up valuable to the team.  .  

  

[auburnphan 6,050]

8 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Good commentary...my disagreement is with the "conventional wisdom" on this site,,...…. that Gus does not go after his "needs".   Where as I'm of the view that he and his assistants know their needs and go after them....just that we don't get them all the time.    HS talent runs up and down in Alabama and many other states where we typically have good results....and if the talent in not in Alabama and west Georgia, we often come up short in some positions.   ....which in my view explains why we end up signing a lot of guys the end of the cycle to get the numbers...guys we don't "need" but are perhaps too good to just pass up.  There is a pretty good list of guy who were barely on the radar during the recruiting period and then get signed by  AU....Boobee recently and I think D J Williams is in that category too...and who end up valuable to the team.  .  

  

When Chiz and Gus came along we upped our recruiting to go up against the big boys.  Along with that came more challenges.  At OT we have not gone after enough guys and keep finishing 2nd or 3rd for the top guys using all energy for nothing.  We have also faced tougher recruiting tactics.  I feel confident that some committed recruits to us were moles that distracted our recruiting efforts by our rival.  Gus had to learn how to counter a high school offense attack.  At OT we put 2 gifted guys into the NFL as high picks and were busts because they were woefully unready for the NFL do too the simplicity of what they had to do.  This hurts us big time.

agree that we have good results with the late signees. But at offensive line those have not tended to hit.

[twilli13 600]

1 hour ago, aujeff11 said:

You do realize that you can recruit but   whiff on backs  right?

Also, Gus might have expected more progression out of Kam.

Right so he was not able to secure any other SEC caliber backs during the recruiting process, which is completely on him and his coaching staff. He was able to secure Kam Martin, Devan Barrett, and Malik Miller. Basically two scat backs and a fullback. On him completely. You still havent named anyone else. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

33 minutes ago, twilli13 said:

Right so he was not able to secure any other SEC caliber backs during the recruiting process

Hence “he tried.”

[twilli13 600]

21 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Hence “he tried.”

Lol. 'He tried'. By taking commitments from guys who were not SEC caliber. I wouldnt call that trying very hard. Maybe he needs to try a little harder. Ya know, if it's not too much trouble. 

[dyehardfanAU 2,117]

36 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Hence “he tried.”

Horse Shoes.  Hand Grenades.

[aujeff11 6,243]

3 hours ago, twilli13 said:

By taking commitments from guys who were not SEC caliber

Which ones? Boobee? Shirley not, Shirley. He was moved from receiver to RB to shore up the position after 2016 showed lack of depth. 

Barrett was SEC caliber. Don’t know what happened there. 

Alaric didn’t qualify. 

Stanton Truitt was moved from receiver to RB as an emergency back and he actually did really well until he transferred out.

The third RB spot was definitely something the staff tried to work on. It didn’t t help that we had slotted starters dismissed in consecutive years. 

[aujeff11 6,243]

3 hours ago, twilli13 said:

Maybe he needs to try a little harder. Ya know, if it's not too much trouble. 

Have you seen the depth chart lately?

It could possibly be:

Boobee

Shivers

Kam

MAR

 

Maybe you should try harder. 

 

[James Howell 80]

On 5/22/2019 at 8:26 AM, Mikey said:

For every Dabo and Pearl, there are several dozen Butch Jones and Avery Johnsons out there. Those guys looked like good hires, in Johnson's case it should have been a home run. Do you have a magic crystal ball to tell the difference?

You just gave the best reason to conduct a coaching search instead of having just one person waiting in the wing to take over.  Auburn should have a search committee which would include the AD to interview several prospects.  That would decrease the uncertainty of hiring a coach vs just having one waiting to take over.

I remember the last true coaching search Auburn conducted, it was not planned but forced on us when Dooley turned us down for HC.  We ended up getting a good coach named Dye.

In fact, if it could lead to a true coaching search, I hope the first guy that we offer would turn us down.

 

[AU64 10,122]

28 minutes ago, James Howell said:

You just gave the best reason to conduct a coaching search instead of having just one person waiting in the wing to take over.  Auburn should have a search committee which would include the AD to interview several prospects.  That would decrease the uncertainty of hiring a coach vs just having one waiting to take over.

I remember the last true coaching search Auburn conducted, it was not planned but forced on us when Dooley turned us down for HC.  We ended up getting a good coach named Dye.

In fact, if it could lead to a true coaching search, I hope the first guy that we offer would turn us down.

 

This is not a public process and unless you are on the committee you never know who we talked to informally or via an agent.  I agree that "coach in waiting' rarely works out but I bet that most schools / ADs know who they would like to have for their next coach.....and the "search" process is ongoing and if the AD is doing the job, there is no some process of asking a bunch of guys to take the job to see who says "yes".  JMO.   

One thing is that no coach with a current job wants it talked up that he is shopping around for a new job....and no school likes it made public that it was turned down by coach A or B and or C   before hiring coach D. 

As for that Dye coaching search...do you remember all the details>?    He was at East Carolina and left thinking he was coming to AU...but did not get the job for some reason and took the job at Wyoming because he needed a job....only stayed there a year and then took the AU job....you can call that a search if you want.....but PD was at Wyoming waiting on AU to offer the job again. 

[James Howell 80]

31 minutes ago, AU64 said:

This is not a public process and unless you are on the committee you never know who we talked to informally or via an agent.  I agree that "coach in waiting' rarely works out but I bet that most schools / ADs know who they would like to have for their next coach.....and the "search" process is ongoing and if the AD is doing the job, there is no some process of asking a bunch of guys to take the job to see who says "yes".  JMO.   

One thing is that no coach with a current job wants it talked up that he is shopping around for a new job....and no school likes it made public that it was turned down by coach A or B and or C   before hiring coach D. 

As for that Dye coaching search...do you remember all the details>?    He was at East Carolina and left thinking he was coming to AU...but did not get the job for some reason and took the job at Wyoming because he needed a job....only stayed there a year and then took the AU job....you can call that a search if you want.....but PD was at Wyoming waiting on AU to offer the job again. 

You are incorrect about the events.  Dye left east carolina in 1979 to take the Wyoming job.  He in no way anticipated going to Auburn in 1979 from east carolina.  In 1979 barfield just ended the season with an 8-3 year at Auburn no way barfield was going anywhere in 1979.  Dye coached the 1980 season at Wyoming and had a 6-5 year.  After the 1980 season Auburn fired Barfield and began the coaching search.  After Dye interviewed for the job, the AD at Wyoming told him to either sign a new contract or resign.  Dye contacted the head of the auburn search committee and ask him where he stood in the coaching search.  Was told he was one of the top canadiates but a decision has not been made.  That is when Dye told the committee he had resigned at Wyoming.  

[AU64 10,122]

6 minutes ago, James Howell said:

You are incorrect about the events.  Dye left east carolina in 1979 to take the Wyoming job.  He in no way anticipated going to Auburn in 1979 from east carolina.  In 1979 barfield just ended the season with an 8-3 year at Auburn no way barfield was going anywhere in 1979.  Dye coached the 1980 season at Wyoming and had a 6-5 year.  After the 1980 season Auburn fired Barfield and began the coaching search.  After Dye interviewed for the job, the AD at Wyoming told him to either sign a new contract or resign.  Dye contacted the head of the auburn search committee and ask him where he stood in the coaching search.  Was told he was one of the top canadiates but a decision has not been made.  That is when Dye told the committee he had resigned at Wyoming.  

Could be that Barfield having a good season in 79 changed some plans but who saw that coming?  and  I understand that AU PTBs were looking for a new coach in 77 and 78.  I was at the AU-Wake game and saw that collapse in the second half and was surprised he made it through the season.   

Anyway..... I was living in that area and it was rumored that Dye was going to AU  and that was while he was at ECU....and the Wyoming job was not where he planned to go.  I don't have any inside knowledge but I do recall what people were saying when he left Greenville NC for Wyoming because the move made no sense....well made no sense to Pirate fans......but it worked out well for him and Wyoming.