Shivers - Over-hyped or improperly utilized?

[auskip07 930]

30 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

I haven't found out where he excels better other than he MIGHT run faster. 

I would have started with holding on to the football. 

[PoetTiger 1,901]

20 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Take out the Kent State game and he's had 4, 1 and 6 carries. You can't seriously be suggesting that we have a remotely decent read on his ability to run the ball. 

I think he needs to improve in pass protection that’s bout it...kid is legit IMO, and will only get better with each game.

[JMassie11 1,610]

Biggest reason he’s not a 3 down back is his blocking ability. That’s just part of the territory with his size. He still has a high ceiling as a Darren Sproles type just gonna have to get there.

[JMassie11 1,610]

To give you a better idea here are some stats with in red being his most productive years. In these years he had 4-8 rushes per game and 3-5 catches per game. 

[Sizzle 3,920]

The more touches he gets, the better he’ll get. Gus will probably start giving him the first few carries like he did last game going forward. Break off a couple nice runs early, he’ll stay in the game even longer and get more carries

[jared52 4,354]

3 minutes ago, JMassie11 said:

To give you a better idea here are some stats with in red being his most productive years. In these years he had 4-8 rushes per game and 3-5 catches per game. 

3:26PM and already down to 13%? You need to get your battery replaced. 😂

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, JMassie11 said:

To give you a better idea here are some stats with in red being his most productive years. In these years he had 4-8 rushes per game and 3-5 catches per game. 

Actually, he was much more productive as a college player, which is what Worm is. He was at his most productive his junior year, carrying the ball over 300 times for almost 2,000 yards. But he was also extremely productive as a sophomore- which Worm is- carrying the ball 237 times at 6.2 per. In total, he carried the ball 815 times in college for 4,979 yards. For a P5 team. 

 

[doverstutts 1,643]

Nobody is knocking the kid....he has all of the intangibles, guts, speed, quickness, toughness,etc....he can't help not being 6'1" 230 and with his size, he is limited in this offense....i think he ought to be looked at as a punt returner

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 minute ago, doverstutts said:

Nobody is knocking the kid....he has all of the intangibles, guts, speed, quickness, toughness,etc....he can't help not being 6'1" 230 and with his size, he is limited in this offense....i think he ought to be looked at as a punt returner

Feel free to knock the head coach for not being able to use an above-average running back. I'm with you on that. Happens every season with Gus. 

[AUFriction 1,179]

2 hours ago, dyehardfanAU said:

Dude seems like more of a speed back, great for sweeps and screens.  However Gus seems to be primarily utilizing him as a feature back.  I can't get a read on whether he is an SEC caliber back and am curious to hear some opinions.

No to both. 

Shivers will eventually get carries, but I think he's still learning the position at the college level. His skill set right now isn't like Kam Martin's (outrunning people) or Whitlows (running patiently through people). He's different. I think he is most efficiently used running just inside or just off tackle. He has a lot of agility, and is good at sidestepping defenders. Unfortunately, I think that's the depth of his skill set right now. I don't think he blocks well, and, while he can make yards for himself with his agility, he isn't going to run through tackles like Whitlow. We also haven't seen him used as a pass catcher, which might mean he's struggling to catch the ball out of the backfield. 

I think he is a good running back in a deep backfield. As he develops more, i'd expect to see more of him. Right now, his carries are limited because there are other folks that can do more. 

[kevon67 2,368]

2 minutes ago, doverstutts said:

Nobody is knocking the kid....he has all of the intangibles, guts, speed, quickness, toughness,etc....he can't help not being 6'1" 230 and with his size, he is limited in this offense....i think he ought to be looked at as a punt returner

Drew Brees couldn't help not being 6'4 225 but that didnt stop him.......I believe the young man has the it factor.

P.S. Ryan Leaf was 6'5....."perfect QB size"...........where might he be?

[AUFriction 1,179]

1 hour ago, Win4AU said:

He’s a true sophomore right?  To me he’s becoming he clear #2 behind boobee and probably will get the first touches tomorrow.  Even though he is small in stature the dude is stout.  I think the #1 reason he doesn’t get more playing time is the same reason a lot of the backs don’t see more time and that’s pass blocking.  Worm is probably the most explosive back Auburn has and will probably break one off against someone before the years over.  Maybe tomorrow?

I don't necessarily agree that he's the clear 2. Martin and Shivers do different things well. I think their touches are dependent on the opposing defense's strengths. Martin does really well when our OL is overpowering the opposing defensive line, and he's more of a threat to catch the ball out of the backfield. Shivers is a shiftier runner, so he's a better "speedy" guy when the OL isn't doing as well. There was one game earlier this year that Shivers wasn't in the game at all, and Kam got more carries. Here's our real depth chart at RB:

1. Whitlow

2. Shivers/Martin

3. Williams

3rd down back- Martin

Situational/2back set- Joiner

 

[Tiger 8,833]

16 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Actually, he was much more productive as a college player, which is what Worm is. He was at his most productive his junior year, carrying the ball over 300 times for almost 2,000 yards. But he was also extremely productive as a sophomore- which Worm is- carrying the ball 237 times at 6.2 per. In total, he carried the ball 815 times in college for 4,979 yards. For a P5 team. 

 

Thank you for making this point. I was just about to but glad I don't have to.

Sproles or Noel Devine are the comps for me. Pretty sure they both keep Tuberville up at night to this day

[Linayus 676]

I personally think Shivers has more natural ability at the position, despite his size, than Boobie does. Boobie has the size and athleticism but is still learning the role, especially at the college level.

Gus likes to keep the same guys on the field while we're driving and if a RB is struggling to get decent pass blocking, he's not going to be used as often. That seems to be the case for both KMart and Shivers these days but with the expanded HB/TE roles (TE roles!!!) we should see them more and more.

I think if Shivers learns to get his shoulders turned up field a little quicker, he will start busting some huge runs for us.

[McLoofus 35,182]

5 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Thank you for making this point. I was just about to but glad I don't have to.

Sproles or Noel Devine are the comps for me. Pretty sure they both keep Tuberville up at night to this day

Tempting to throw McCluster in there but he was a slightly different kind of guy. He was actually small and not just short. Still managed 181 carries and 44 catches his senior year. Got drafted in the 2nd round. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Tempting to throw McCluster in there but he was a slightly different kind of guy. He was actually small and not just short. Still managed 181 carries and 44 catches his senior year. Got drafted in the 2nd round. 

He was a badass during his last season at Ole Miss. I don't think Shivers has the wiggle that DMC had, but I don't think it's a poor comparison by any stretch. 

I'm not going to say that he has been improperly utilized, just that he has probably been underutilized. Maybe that's the same thing I don't know. I'm with the posters that would like to see him get more successive touches, as opposed to one here and one there. 

There are definitely a couple big runs by Boobie that I'm confident Shivers or KMart could have taken to the house. 

[Tiger 8,833]

7 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Tempting to throw McCluster in there but he was a slightly different kind of guy. He was actually small and not just short. Still managed 181 carries and 44 catches his senior year. Got drafted in the 2nd round. 

Oh yeah he was good. At least we didn't lose to him while he ran all over us lol

[AUApostle 7,663]

15 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Thank you for making this point. I was just about to but glad I don't have to.

Sproles or Noel Devine are the comps for me. Pretty sure they both keep Tuberville up at night to this day

I think James Mungro running the counter trap still keeps Tuberville and Lovett up late at night.

[McLoofus 35,182]

6 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

He was a badass during his last season at Ole Miss. I don't think Shivers has the wiggle that DMC had, but I don't think it's a poor comparison by any stretch. 

I'm not going to say that he has been improperly utilized, just that he has probably been underutilized. Maybe that's the same thing I don't know. I'm with the posters that would like to see him get more successive touches, as opposed to one here and one there. 

There are definitely a couple big runs by Boobie that I'm confident Shivers or KMart could have taken to the house. 

Good catch, and I don't have a problem with the runs he's getting. I do think that he's getting too few opportunities, and I would like to see him get more opportunities to run a full series. 

The one thing that might get me to dial it back is the pass blocking. It's a legit concern if the other guys are that much better at it. I just honestly don't know. I hear that Malik Miller is our best pass blocker but that isn't keeping him on the field or anyone else off it. 

[AU64 10,122]

1 hour ago, steeleagle said:

A little bit of both.

Over hyped b/c some on here think he is better than Boobie, but I haven't found out where he excels better other than he MIGHT run faster.  I also don't see him as an every down back. He doesnt have the ability to be elusive. His body type allows him to be quicker on straight away speed, but he seems to go down easier than i expected. His size also makes it hard for him to block those large DEs and blitzing LBs, i have seen on tape.

Under utilized in I think he can be a better used back in the run game. But it looks like he is one of those that gets better w more reps which is not getting. 

probably…..we have a handful of running backs and split type receivers and JMO but not sure where he fits in the pecking order.....but with only a certain number of offensive plays a game, I can't see him getting his hands on the ball more than a half dozen times in a game....so if you utilize him more....who do you utilize less?  

[Barnacle 9,064]

1 minute ago, McLoofus said:

Good catch, and I don't have a problem with the runs he's getting. I do think that he's getting too few opportunities, and I would like to see him get more opportunities to run a full series. 

The one thing that might get me to dial it back is the pass blocking. It's a legit concern if the other guys are that much better at it. I just honestly don't know. I hear that Malik Miller is our best pass blocker but that isn't keeping him on the field or anyone else off it. 

Yeah I think you're probably right. I mean Gus clearly has Shivers as a part of the game plan each week. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

But it is frustrating when our line is blocking well and Boobie, even though he's capable of picking up a smooth 15-20, he's not a home run guy by any stretch. You think to yourself - Shaun would have taken that all the way. But those plays only around a few times a game and you have to get a lot of touches to see them.

I think our run game is in good shape though. I really do. Running against A&M was a big deal. And I think Gus is recognizing the versatility we have back there. 

And I'll say this too: I don't have a problem with playing the hot hand. It's just a question of what's the catalyst - is it Boobie or is it the line? Because if it's the line that's hot, that's when our speed guys need to be getting touches by the boat load.

[McLoofus 35,182]

3 minutes ago, AU64 said:

probably…..we have a handful of running backs and split type receivers and JMO but not sure where he fits in the pecking order.....but with only a certain number of offensive plays a game, I can't see him getting his hands on the ball more than a half dozen times in a game....so if you utilize him more....who do you utilize less?  

That's very easy. Boobee has the 2nd-most carries in the league but is only getting the 9th-best production per carry. 

There are PLENTY of carries to go around, just like have been every year. 

[Mikey 16,777]

 

 

 

Shivers - Over-hyped or improperly utilized?

 

None of the above.

4 minutes ago, AU64 said:

so if you utilize him more....who do you utilize less?  

This is the question that the "so-and-so should play more" posters always seem to ignore. When player A goes in, someone has to come out.

[McLoofus 35,182]

2 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

Yeah I think you're probably right. I mean Gus clearly has Shivers as a part of the game plan each week. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

But it is frustrating when our line is blocking well and Boobie, even though he's capable of picking up a smooth 15-20, he's not a home run guy by any stretch. You think to yourself - Shaun would have taken that all the way. But those plays only around a few times a game and you have to get a lot of touches to see them.

I think our run game is in good shape though. I really do. Running against A&M was a big deal. And I think Gus is recognizing the versatility we have back there. 

And I'll say this too: I don't have a problem with playing the hot hand. It's just a question of what's the catalyst - is it Boobie or is it the line? Because if it's the line that's hot, that's when our speed guys need to be getting touches by the boat load.

Agreed. 

I was very encouraged that we saw a very game- and opponent-specific rushing attack the other day. Haven't seen our offense look so different from one week to the next in years. Especially not in week 4. So there's hope  yet that we see usage vary from week to week as opposed to Boobee being guaranteed 24 carries compared to 5 combined for all the other RBs. 

Really looking forward to seeing how tomorrow goes down. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

6 minutes ago, AU64 said:

probably…..we have a handful of running backs and split type receivers and JMO but not sure where he fits in the pecking order.....but with only a certain number of offensive plays a game, I can't see him getting his hands on the ball more than a half dozen times in a game....so if you utilize him more....who do you utilize less?  

It would have to be Boobie. 

I like Boobie for a lot of reasons and I'm not unhappy that Gus has made him the primary back in this offense. I still believe he is our best inside runner, and that's why he's getting the bulk of the carries.

That said, Shivers is, IMO, a home run threat any time he touches the ball, and for that reason I'd like to see him touch the ball more.