SocialCircle 570 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 34 minutes ago, creed said: New data may result in new preventions, but past communications should be just that, in the past. Stay informed in the now. Yours and other peoples lives may depend on it. I do. The point is there are mixed messages being sent. Your last post from the WHO isn't the same thing as Fauci is currently recommending by the way and that link actually proves my point even more. After 6 months of a global pandemic the WHO continues to change their stance on mask wearing. Now they say health care providers and those over 60 and with underlying medical conditions should wear them, so they aren't saying everyone should wear one by a long stretch . They also now qualify the type of mask those people should wear and it doesn't fit the description of the most commonly worn mask I see people wear around here at all. I still haven't said where I stand on the issue of wearing masks so I don't need a lecture about saving lives from you. I'm fine with anyone who wants to wear a mask as long as it is not Jerry Nadler trying to virtue signal by putting one on for what looks to be the first time in his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialCircle 570 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 1 hour ago, McLoofus said: Very telling that scientists allowing their opinions to change as new information becomes available is viewed as a bad thing by some. And don't act like Fauci or anyone else was ever pounding their fist and demanding that people not wear a mask. Early on there was a legitimate concern about PPE shortages and that was what drove the conversation. There was also a learning curve for how to wear a mask. We're past that now. Get your heads out of your asses. You're embarrassing yourselves and you're endangering the people around you. Except the WHO disagrees with you if you are under 60 and healthy and not a health care provider. Your attitude is very arrogant on this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdefromtx 3,159 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 2 hours ago, SocialCircle said: Except the WHO disagrees with you if you are under 60 and healthy and not a health care provider. Your attitude is very arrogant on this issue. Correct here............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savorytiger 182 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 56 minutes ago, SocialCircle said: Except the WHO disagrees with you if you are under 60 and healthy and not a health care provider. Your attitude is very arrogant on this issue. If you're citing the article, it says people over 60 should wear medical grade masks in conditions where they cannot socially distance, and everyone else should wear a three-layer fabric mask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialCircle 570 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, savorytiger said: If you're citing the article, it says people over 60 should wear medical grade masks in conditions where they cannot socially distance, and everyone else should wear a three-layer fabric mask. and everyone else should wear a three-later mask ..... where they cannot socially distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Ahh. So Fauci's "mixed messaging" (not really an accurate description) is problematic but the WHO's isn't. And the WHO is supposed to be believed even though Trump was a superhero for "banning" (he didn't) travel from China when the WHO said there was no need. So full of s***. The WHO is currently in line with prevailing opinion and common sense. Wear your masks. You have no legitimate reason not to. Hubris, insecurity, selfishness and dumb ass politics are not legitimate reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialCircle 570 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 On 6/16/2020 at 3:57 PM, McLoofus said: Ahh. So Fauci's "mixed messaging" (not really an accurate description) is problematic but the WHO's isn't. And the WHO is supposed to be believed even though Trump was a superhero for "banning" (he didn't) travel from China when the WHO said there was no need. So full of s***. The WHO is currently in line with prevailing opinion and common sense. Wear your masks. You have no legitimate reason not to. Hubris, insecurity, selfishness and dumb ass politics are not legitimate reasons. Thanks for making my point. Both Fauci and the WHO have been all over the place on the wearing of masks as well on several other things as it relates to this virus. I have rarely seen "experts" change their minds on so many very important matters than these have as it relates to this virus. I'm fine with everyone wearing a mask....except Jerry Nadler. I think for him the risk of injuring himself by putting on a mask is greater than the benefit he might get by wearing one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,396 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 On 6/16/2020 at 8:36 AM, I_M4_AU said: The people that say the experts have been consistent in their message are only hearing what they want to hear. The experts have been all over the place. It’s up to the individual to do what is best for themselves. That's not true. Fauci - and the WHO - did not recommend masks initially but have changed their recommendations as more information became available. I am not sure what else they "reversed" themselves on, perhaps you can remind us since you claim they have been "all over the place". If you are really concerned about false and misleading information, I suggest you focus your concern on our political "leadership" - the Trump administration and their allies. That misinformation is ongoing. There is absolutely no excuse for an individual to ignore current CDC and/or WHO recommendations based on their inconsistency. Doing so is the real indication of being selective in what you "want to hear". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialCircle 570 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 2 hours ago, homersapien said: That's not true. Fauci - and the WHO - did not recommend masks initially but have changed their recommendations as more information became available. I am not sure what else they "reversed" themselves on, perhaps you can remind us since you claim they have been "all over the place". If you are really concerned about false and misleading information, I suggest you focus your concern on our political "leadership" - the Trump administration and their allies. That misinformation is ongoing. There is absolutely no excuse for an individual to ignore current CDC and/or WHO recommendations based on their inconsistency. Doing so is the real indication of being selective in what you "want to hear". There is absolutely no excuse for "experts" to send out mixed signals so often. Here is a recent one related to the spread of the virus by asymptomatic people. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/08/asymptomatic-coronavirus-patients-arent-spreading-new-infections-who-says.html How many different experts have said how many different things about this drug as a possible effective treatment for this virus? The public has heard it is dangerous and then the experts retracted that study. The public has been told it is effective and the public has been told it isn't effective. https://nypost.com/2020/04/02/hydroxychloroquine-most-effective-coronavirus-treatment-poll/ https://time.com/5847664/who-hydroxychloroquine-covid-19/ https://www.independentsentinel.com/french-doctor-conducts-a-second-successful-study-of-drug-to-treat-covid-19-patients/ https://www.fort-russ.com/2020/04/dr-fauci-lied-hydroxychloroquine-rated-most-effective-therapy-by-doctors-for-coronavirus-in-global-survey-of-6k-doctors-in-30-countries/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creed 1,642 Posted June 19, 2020 Author Share Posted June 19, 2020 2 hours ago, SocialCircle said: There is absolutely no excuse for "experts" to send out mixed signals so often. Here is a recent one related to the spread of the virus by asymptomatic people. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/08/asymptomatic-coronavirus-patients-arent-spreading-new-infections-who-says.html How many different experts have said how many different things about this drug as a possible effective treatment for this virus? The public has heard it is dangerous and then the experts retracted that study. The public has been told it is effective and the public has been told it isn't effective. https://nypost.com/2020/04/02/hydroxychloroquine-most-effective-coronavirus-treatment-poll/ https://time.com/5847664/who-hydroxychloroquine-covid-19/ https://www.independentsentinel.com/french-doctor-conducts-a-second-successful-study-of-drug-to-treat-covid-19-patients/ https://www.fort-russ.com/2020/04/dr-fauci-lied-hydroxychloroquine-rated-most-effective-therapy-by-doctors-for-coronavirus-in-global-survey-of-6k-doctors-in-30-countries/ So it sounds like you're confused because of the various messages and undecided on how to protect yourself. Maybe, this has caused you to waffle on developing a plan for protecting yourself and others. Or possibly your plan is to keep doing what you're doing and hope for the best. Good luck and stay safe my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savorytiger 182 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 3 hours ago, SocialCircle said: There is absolutely no excuse for "experts" to send out mixed signals so often. Here is a recent one related to the spread of the virus by asymptomatic people. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/08/asymptomatic-coronavirus-patients-arent-spreading-new-infections-who-says.html How many different experts have said how many different things about this drug as a possible effective treatment for this virus? The public has heard it is dangerous and then the experts retracted that study. The public has been told it is effective and the public has been told it isn't effective. https://nypost.com/2020/04/02/hydroxychloroquine-most-effective-coronavirus-treatment-poll/ https://time.com/5847664/who-hydroxychloroquine-covid-19/ https://www.independentsentinel.com/french-doctor-conducts-a-second-successful-study-of-drug-to-treat-covid-19-patients/ https://www.fort-russ.com/2020/04/dr-fauci-lied-hydroxychloroquine-rated-most-effective-therapy-by-doctors-for-coronavirus-in-global-survey-of-6k-doctors-in-30-countries/ Uh, in case some people here get mislead, here's some updated links on hydroxychroroquine: https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/17/who-drops-hydroxychloroquine-covid-19-clinical-trial/ https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/hydroxychloroquine-oral-tablet https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/15/fda-revokes-hydroxychloroquine/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialCircle 570 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 2 hours ago, savorytiger said: Uh, in case some people here get mislead, here's some updated links on hydroxychroroquine: https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/17/who-drops-hydroxychloroquine-covid-19-clinical-trial/ https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/hydroxychloroquine-oral-tablet https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/15/fda-revokes-hydroxychloroquine/ I have actually spoken at length to friends who are doctors and who have treated multiple COVID-19 patients with the hydroxychloroquine regiment with very successful results. These are people I’ve known for years and in one instance have known since middle school. Based on speaking to doctors I know I will go to one of them and elect this course of treatment for this virus should they recommend it in my case which I am sure they would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialCircle 570 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 3 hours ago, creed said: So it sounds like you're confused because of the various messages and undecided on how to protect yourself. Maybe, this has caused you to waffle on developing a plan for protecting yourself and others. Or possibly your plan is to keep doing what you're doing and hope for the best. Good luck and stay safe my friend. I’ve never said I was confused. I have said the so called experts are all over the board as it relates to this virus. I believe many experts are confused and I believe others have an agenda (and agendas go both ways). I mean I think the WHO first said you couldn’t have human to human transmission of this virus. How do you know what I am doing or not doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_M4_AU 7,885 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 8 hours ago, homersapien said: Fauci - and the WHO - did not recommend masks initially but have changed their recommendations Fauci didn’t recommend the masks initially because he was afraid people would have a run on masks and there would be a shortage for medical professionals. So, why weren't we told to wear masks in the beginning? "Well, the reason for that is that we were concerned the public health community, and many people were saying this, were concerned that it was at a time when personal protective equipment, including the N95 masks and the surgical masks, were in very short supply. And we wanted to make sure that the people namely, the health care workers, who were brave enough to put themselves in a harm way, to take care of people who you know were infected with the coronavirus and the danger of them getting infected." https://www.thestreet.com/video/dr-fauci-masks-changing-directive-coronavirus Yes, sound medical advise from a science professional, it had nothing to do with getting more available information. How embarrassing. I’m not really concerned at all, I have a good understanding of how to keep and stay healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savorytiger 182 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, SocialCircle said: I have actually spoken at length to friends who are doctors and who have treated multiple COVID-19 patients with the hydroxychloroquine regiment with very successful results. These are people I’ve known for years and in one instance have known since middle school. Based on speaking to doctors I know I will go to one of them and elect this course of treatment for this virus should they recommend it in my case which I am sure they would. If your friends did a large scale study about the usage of the drug on their patients, then I'd love to read it. From what I've seen, the result of using hydroxychloroquine either has a neutral or slightly negative effect on patients recovering from COVID. If my own doctor recommends it to me, I'd trust them, but for now I'd go with results from drug trials over anecdotal second hand evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialCircle 570 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 7 hours ago, savorytiger said: If your friends did a large scale study about the usage of the drug on their patients, then I'd love to read it. From what I've seen, the result of using hydroxychloroquine either has a neutral or slightly negative effect on patients recovering from COVID. If my own doctor recommends it to me, I'd trust them, but for now I'd go with results from drug trials over anecdotal second hand evidence. And I respect how you believe you should or shouldn’t be treated should you catch this virus. I believe it should be your decision. After all who am I to question it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 It's interesting that most people have processed all the available information and have no problem understanding that we are to wear masks, we are to wash our hands, we are to social distance, and that the sum total of research on hydroxychloroquine is that it is not an effective COVID-19 treatment, but there remain many who fixate on the rare and mostly outdated exceptions. And yes, as we have been presented with a completely unprecedented pandemic event, findings and the reporting of them have changed some. I'm not sure what some of you expect Fauci and the other experts- not "experts", but experts- to have said when asked these questions other than "Our research has shown..." followed by what their research of a completely unprecedented virus has shown. And yes, I annoyingly repeated and italicized completely unprecedented because some of you seem to have forgotten or never understood that. That is why research, findings and recommendations have changed. Not sure how you expect anyone to have the answers or what you expect them to say when those answers are demanded anyway. It's clear that some are looking for the exceptions that confirm their existing worldview and choosing to believe that instead of what the scientific community that has done the research suggests. Sadly, it's nothing new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialCircle 570 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 2 hours ago, McLoofus said: It's interesting that most people have processed all the available information and have no problem understanding that we are to wear masks, we are to wash our hands, we are to social distance, and that the sum total of research on hydroxychloroquine is that it is not an effective COVID-19 treatment, but there remain many who fixate on the rare and mostly outdated exceptions. And yes, as we have been presented with a completely unprecedented pandemic event, findings and the reporting of them have changed some. I'm not sure what some of you expect Fauci and the other experts- not "experts", but experts- to have said when asked these questions other than "Our research has shown..." followed by what their research of a completely unprecedented virus has shown. And yes, I annoyingly repeated and italicized completely unprecedented because some of you seem to have forgotten or never understood that. That is why research, findings and recommendations have changed. Not sure how you expect anyone to have the answers or what you expect them to say when those answers are demanded anyway. It's clear that some are looking for the exceptions that confirm their existing worldview and choosing to believe that instead of what the scientific community that has done the research suggests. Sadly, it's nothing new. https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/05/20/five-people-who-say-hydroxychloroquine-saved-their-life-n2569069 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/08/fact-check-did-michigan-dem-credit-trump-her-covid-19-recovery/2967210001/ And Democrats try to turn this into a political issue: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dems-censure-michigan-lawmaker-hydroxychloroquine The research on hydroxychloroquine is not yet complete as it relates to it's effectiveness as part of a treatment for COVID-19. There are plenty of doctors who have treated their COVID-19 patients effectively with this regiment and so it is not rare and unique at all. I do agree there are plenty of experts who also say it has not yet been proven to be an effective treatment for COVID-19. It is also interesting to note a study was released saying it was actually a dangerous treatment for this virus, but that study has since been retracted. People like you seem to be arrogant enough to think they know what is best for everybody. The people in the first link I posted and several doctors I know and have spoken at length to and many, many other people and experts disagree with you as it relates to this drug and many also agree with you. I believe people should do their own research and talk to doctors they trust and make the best decision for themselves. Who said we shouldn't wash our hands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,396 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 ‘It really does feel like the U.S. has given up’: Experts in other nations alarmed by U.S. numbers By Rick Noack June 19, 2020 at 10:38 a.m. EDT As coronavirus cases surge in states across the South and West of the United States, health experts in countries with falling case numbers are watching with a growing sense of alarm and disbelief, with many wondering why virus-stricken U.S. states continue to reopen and why the advice of scientists is often ignored. “It really does feel like the U.S. has given up,” said Siouxsie Wiles, an infectious-diseases specialist at the University of Auckland in New Zealand — a country that has confirmed only three new cases over the last three weeks and where citizens have now largely returned to their pre-coronavirus routines. “I can’t imagine what it must be like having to go to work knowing it’s unsafe,” Wiles said of the U.S.-wide economic reopening. “It’s hard to see how this ends. There are just going to be more and more people infected, and more and more deaths. It’s heartbreaking.” China’s actions over the past week stand in stark contrast to those of the United States. In the wake of a new cluster of more than 150 new cases that emerged in Beijing, authorities sealed off neighborhoods, launched a mass testing campaign and imposed travel restrictions. Meanwhile, President Trump maintains that the United States will not shut down a second time, although a surge in cases has convinced governors in some states, including Arizona, to walk back their opposition to mandatory face coverings in public. Commentators and experts in Europe, where cases have continued to decline, voiced concerns over the state of the U.S. response. A headline on the website of Germany’s public broadcaster read: “Has the U.S. given up its fight against coronavirus?” Switzerland’s conservative Neue Zürcher Zeitung newspaper concluded, “U.S. increasingly accepts rising covid-19 numbers.” “The only thing one can say with certainty: There’s nothing surprising about this development,” a journalist wrote in the paper, referring to crowded U.S. beaches and pools during Memorial Day weekend in May. Some European health experts fear that the rising U.S. caseloads are rooted in a White House response that has at times deviated from the conclusions of leading scientists. “Many scientists appeared to have reached an adequate assessment of the situation early on [in the United States], but this didn’t translate into a political action plan,” said Thomas Gerlinger, a professor of health sciences at the University of Bielefeld in Germany. For instance, it took a long time for the United States to ramp up testing capacity. Whereas the U.S. response to the crisis has at times appeared disconnected from American scientists’ publicly available findings, U.S. researchers’ conclusions informed the actions of foreign governments. “A large portion of [Germany’s] measures that proved effective was based on studies by leading U.S. research institutes,” said Karl Lauterbach, a Harvard-educated epidemiologist who is a member of the German parliament for the Social Democrats, who are part of the coalition government. Lauterbach advised the German parliament and the government during the pandemic. Despite its far older population, Germany has confirmed fewer than 9,000 coronavirus-linked deaths, compared to almost 120,000 in the United States. (Germany has about one-fourth of the United States’ population.) Lauterbach cited in particular the work of Marc Lipsitch, a professor of epidemiology at Harvard University, whose research with colleagues recently suggested that forms of social distancing may have to remain in place into 2022. Lipsitch’s work, Lauterbach said, helped him to convince German Vice Chancellor Olaf Scholz that the pandemic will be “the new normal” for the time being, and it impacted German officials’ thinking on how long their strategy should be in place. Regarding the effectiveness of face masks, Lauterbach added, “we almost entirely relied on U.S. studies.” Germany was among the first major European countries to make face masks mandatory on public transport and in supermarkets. Lipsitch said Thursday that he was not previously aware of the impact of his research on German decision-making, but added that he has spoken to representatives of several other foreign governments in recent weeks, including Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and officials or advisers from Canada, New Zealand and South Korea. Even though Lipsitch cautioned it was impossible for him to say how or if his conversations influenced foreign governments’ thinking, he credited the overall European response as “science-based and a sincere effort to find out what experts in the field believe is a range of possible scenarios and consequences of decisions.” Lipsitch said he presented some of his research to a White House group in the early stages of the U.S. outbreak but said the Trump administration’s response to the pandemic did not reflect his conclusions. “I think they have cherry-picked models that at each point looked the most rosy, and fundamentally not engaged with the magnitude of the problem,” he said. The White House has defended its approach as science-based. After a study by Imperial College London predicted 510,000 deaths in Britain and 2.2 million in the United States if the pandemic remained fully uncontrolled, for instance, the Trump administration indicated that it was taking the research into account. “If we didn’t act quickly and smartly, we would have had, in my opinion and in the opinion of others, anywhere from 10 to 20 and maybe even 25 times the number of deaths,” Trump said two months later, But European researchers dispute that the U.S. government’s reliance on scientists to inform decision-making comes anywhere near the degree to which many European policymakers have relied on researchers. After consulting U.S. research and German studies, for instance, German leaders agreed to make reopening dependent on case numbers, meaning restrictions snap back or reopening gets put on hold if the case numbers in a given region exceed a certain threshold. Meanwhile, several U.S. states have reopened despite rising case numbers. “I don’t understand that logic,” said Reinhard Busse, a health management professor a the Technical University of Berlin. Lauterbach said that while most Germans disapproved of Trump before the pandemic, even his staunchest critics in Germany were surprised by how even respected U.S. institutions including the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) struggled to respond to the crisis. The CDC, for instance, initially botched the rollout of test kits in the early stages of the outbreak. “Like many other aspects of our country, the CDC’s ability to function well is being severely handicapped by the interference coming from the White House,” said Harvard epidemiologist Lipsitch. “All of us in public health very much hope that this is not a permanent condition of the CDC.” Some observers fear the damage will be difficult to reverse. “I’ve always thought of the CDC as a reliable and trusted source of information," said Wiles, the New Zealand specialist. “Not anymore.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/06/19/countries-keeping-coronavirus-bay-experts-watch-us-case-numbers-with-alarm/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialCircle 570 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Based on the current data I would advise those at risk should they catch this virus to proceed with extreme caution and all others to go about their business as they so desire. I don’t think the number of cases is very relevant as many cases are asymptomatic and as cases will increase as more and more get testing and things open back up. If hospitalizations start to spike enough to overwhelm our healthcare system in places, then I would advise the local officials to slow things down until hospitalizations start decreasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,396 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 2 hours ago, SocialCircle said: Based on the current data I would advise those at risk should they catch this virus to proceed with extreme caution and all others to go about their business as they so desire. I don’t think the number of cases is very relevant as many cases are asymptomatic and as cases will increase as more and more get testing and things open back up. If hospitalizations start to spike enough to overwhelm our healthcare system in places, then I would advise the local officials to slow things down until hospitalizations start decreasing. That would sound a lot better if you could you tell me where I can purchase a N95 grade mask. We still have shortages in PPE. "N95 masks are no longer available to the public on Amazon. Instead, they're saved for exclusive use by hospital and government agencies. You can find cloth masks on Amazon, which are an alternative for everyday use by the public." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdefromtx 3,159 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, homersapien said: That would sound a lot better if you could you tell me where I can purchase a N95 grade mask. We still have shortages in PPE. Kroger near my house had some yesterday. But they were still half stocked with TP. Go figure!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialCircle 570 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 39 minutes ago, homersapien said: That would sound a lot better if you could you tell me where I can purchase a N95 grade mask. We still have shortages in PPE. "N95 masks are no longer available to the public on Amazon. Instead, they're saved for exclusive use by hospital and government agencies. You can find cloth masks on Amazon, which are an alternative for everyday use by the public." Nobody is forcing you to go anywhere you are uncomfortable going. Shelter in place if you believe the risk is too great for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,396 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 12 minutes ago, SocialCircle said: Nobody is forcing you to go anywhere you are uncomfortable going. Shelter in place if you believe the risk is too great for you. No one is completely self sufficient. I do practice isolation - for which my situation is well-suited - but I'd like to have an N95 mask to go to the grocery store (for example). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialCircle 570 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 1 hour ago, homersapien said: No one is completely self sufficient. I do practice isolation - for which my situation is well-suited - but I'd like to have an N95 mask to go to the grocery store (for example). Send me your address and I’ll send one to you. Or we can close down everything because you don’t have an N95 mask. It is a right you know to have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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