AUDub 11,160 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 WAPO and the AP have seemingly confirmed the story after the fact. Sources are anonymous insofar, of course. But one could hardly be surprised given his conduct with regard to Senator McCain and H.W. Bush, or the Khans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubiefifty 16,848 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 theatlantic.com Trump: Americans Who Died in War Are ‘Losers’ and ‘Suckers’ Jeffrey Goldberg 10-13 minutes The president has repeatedly disparaged the intelligence of service members, and asked that wounded veterans be kept out of military parades, multiple sources tell The Atlantic. September 3, 2020 Donald Trump greets families of the fallen at Arlington National Cemetery on Memorial Day 2017.Chip Somodevilla / Getty When President Donald Trump canceled a visit to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery near Paris in 2018, he blamed rain for the last-minute decision, saying that “the helicopter couldn’t fly” and that the Secret Service wouldn’t drive him there. Neither claim was true. Trump rejected the idea of the visit because he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain, and because he did not believe it important to honor American war dead, according to four people with firsthand knowledge of the discussion that day. In a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the scheduled visit, Trump said, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed. From the April 2020 issue: The president is winning his war on American institutions Belleau Wood is a consequential battle in American history, and the ground on which it was fought is venerated by the Marine Corps. America and its allies stopped the German advance toward Paris there in the spring of 1918. But Trump, on that same trip, asked aides, “Who were the good guys in this war?” He also said that he didn’t understand why the United States would intervene on the side of the Allies. Trump’s understanding of concepts such as patriotism, service, and sacrifice has interested me since he expressed contempt for the war record of the late Senator John McCain, who spent more than five years as a prisoner of the North Vietnamese. “He’s not a war hero,” Trump said in 2015 while running for the Republican nomination for president. “I like people who weren’t captured.” Read: John McCain’s death brought out the worst in the Trump administration There was no precedent in American politics for the expression of this sort of contempt, but the performatively patriotic Trump did no damage to his candidacy by attacking McCain in this manner. Nor did he set his campaign back by attacking the parents of Humayun Khan, an Army captain who was killed in Iraq in 2004. Trump remained fixated on McCain, one of the few prominent Republicans to continue criticizing him after he won the nomination. When McCain died, in August 2018, Trump told his senior staff, according to three sources with direct knowledge of this event, “We’re not going to support that loser’s funeral,” and he became furious, according to witnesses, when he saw flags lowered to half-staff. “What the **** are we doing that for? Guy was a ******* loser,” the president told aides. Trump was not invited to McCain’s funeral. (These sources, and others quoted in this article, spoke on condition of anonymity. The White House did not return earlier calls for comment, but Alyssa Farah, a White House spokesperson, emailed me this statement shortly after this story was posted: “This report is false. President Trump holds the military in the highest regard. He’s demonstrated his commitment to them at every turn: delivering on his promise to give our troops a much needed pay raise, increasing military spending, signing critical veterans reforms, and supporting military spouses. This has no basis in fact.”) Eliot A. Cohen: America’s generals must stand up to Trump Trump’s understanding of heroism has not evolved since he became president. According to sources with knowledge of the president’s views, he seems to genuinely not understand why Americans treat former prisoners of war with respect. Nor does he understand why pilots who are shot down in combat are honored by the military. On at least two occasions since becoming president, according to three sources with direct knowledge of his views, Trump referred to former President George H. W. Bush as a “loser” for being shot down by the Japanese as a Navy pilot in World War II. (Bush escaped capture, but eight other men shot down during the same mission were caught, tortured, and executed by Japanese soldiers.) When lashing out at critics, Trump often reaches for illogical and corrosive insults, and members of the Bush family have publicly opposed him. But his cynicism about service and heroism extends even to the World War I dead buried outside Paris—people who were killed more than a quarter century before he was born. Trump finds the notion of military service difficult to understand, and the idea of volunteering to serve especially incomprehensible. (The president did not serve in the military; he received a medical deferment from the draft during the Vietnam War because of the alleged presence of bone spurs in his feet. In the 1990s, Trump said his efforts to avoid contracting sexually transmitted diseases constituted his “personal Vietnam.”) Amy J. Rutenberg: What Trump’s draft deferments reveal On Memorial Day 2017, Trump visited Arlington National Cemetery, a short drive from the White House. He was accompanied on this visit by John Kelly, who was then the secretary of homeland security, and who would, a short time later, be named the White House chief of staff. The two men were set to visit Section 60, the 14-acre area of the cemetery that is the burial ground for those killed in America’s most recent wars. Kelly’s son Robert is buried in Section 60. A first lieutenant in the Marine Corps, Robert Kelly was killed in 2010 in Afghanistan. He was 29. Trump was meant, on this visit, to join John Kelly in paying respects at his son’s grave, and to comfort the families of other fallen service members. But according to sources with knowledge of this visit, Trump, while standing by Robert Kelly’s grave, turned directly to his father and said, “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?” Kelly (who declined to comment for this story) initially believed, people close to him said, that Trump was making a ham-handed reference to the selflessness of America’s all-volunteer force. But later he came to realize that Trump simply does not understand non-transactional life choices. “He can’t fathom the idea of doing something for someone other than himself,” one of Kelly’s friends, a retired four-star general, told me. “He just thinks that anyone who does anything when there’s no direct personal gain to be had is a sucker. There’s no money in serving the nation.” Kelly’s friend went on to say, “Trump can’t imagine anyone else’s pain. That’s why he would say this to the father of a fallen marine on Memorial Day in the cemetery where he’s buried.” I’ve asked numerous general officers over the past year for their analysis of Trump’s seeming contempt for military service. They offer a number of explanations. Some of his cynicism is rooted in frustration, they say. Trump, unlike previous presidents, tends to believe that the military, like other departments of the federal government, is beholden only to him, and not the Constitution. Many senior officers have expressed worry about Trump’s understanding of the rules governing the use of the armed forces. This issue came to a head in early June, during demonstrations in Washington, D.C., in response to police killings of Black people. James Mattis, the retired Marine general and former secretary of defense, lambasted Trump at the time for ordering law-enforcement officers to forcibly clear protesters from Lafayette Square, and for using soldiers as props: “When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution,” Mattis wrote. “Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.” Read: James Mattis denounces President Trump, describes him as a threat to the Constitution Another explanation is more quotidian, and aligns with a broader understanding of Trump’s material-focused worldview. The president believes that nothing is worth doing without the promise of monetary payback, and that talented people who don’t pursue riches are “losers.” (According to eyewitnesses, after a White House briefing given by the then-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Joe Dunford, Trump turned to aides and said, “That guy is smart. Why did he join the military?”) Yet another, related, explanation concerns what appears to be Trump’s pathological fear of appearing to look like a “sucker” himself. His capacious definition of sucker includes those who lose their lives in service to their country, as well as those who are taken prisoner, or are wounded in battle. “He has a lot of fear,” one officer with firsthand knowledge of Trump’s views said. “He doesn’t see the heroism in fighting.” Several observers told me that Trump is deeply anxious about dying or being disfigured, and this worry manifests itself as disgust for those who have suffered. Trump recently claimed that he has received the bodies of slain service members “many, many” times, but in fact he has traveled to Dover Air Force Base, the transfer point for the remains of fallen service members, only four times since becoming president. In another incident, Trump falsely claimed that he had called “virtually all” of the families of service members who had died during his term, then began rush-shipping condolence letters when families said the president was not telling the truth. Read: Top military officers unload on Trump Trump has been, for the duration of his presidency, fixated on staging military parades, but only of a certain sort. In a 2018 White House planning meeting for such an event, Trump asked his staff not to include wounded veterans, on grounds that spectators would feel uncomfortable in the presence of amputees. “Nobody wants to see that,” he said. We want to hear what you think about this article. Submit a letter to the editor or write to letters@theatlantic.com. Jeffrey Goldberg is the editor in chief of The Atlantic and a recipient of the National Magazine Award for Reporting. He is the author of Prisoners: A Story of Friendship and Terror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubiefifty 16,848 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 i want to see the spin on this one! all these fierce patriots all riled up about the natty anthem will give trump a pass. imagine trump calling your kids losers when they stood up to do the right thing and giving their lives doing it. and of course trump cheated on the draft four times i believe? that meant someone else had to go in his place. come on righties i want to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,160 Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, aubiefifty said: i want to see the spin on this one! all these fierce patriots all riled up about the natty anthem will give trump a pass. imagine trump calling your kids losers when they stood up to do the right thing and giving their lives doing it. and of course trump cheated on the draft four times i believe? that meant someone else had to go in his place. come on righties i want to hear it. They'll likely dismiss it as fake news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubiefifty 16,848 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Just now, AUDub said: They'll likely dismiss it as fake news. i wish you had put this in smack. anyone that tries to spin this deserves some verbal smacking. when i forget which board i am in i could get time out easier ya see.................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,506 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 10 minutes ago, AUDub said: They'll likely dismiss it as fake news. Already doing it. Trump's people are denying it and that's all his supporters need to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubiefifty 16,848 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 ok serious question. when people know the man is a serial liar how the hell does he get people to buy into his bull? i just do not get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,160 Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 13 minutes ago, aubiefifty said: ok serious question. when people know the man is a serial liar how the hell does he get people to buy into his bull? i just do not get it. It's not about truth at this point. The people in power, they're tethered to this ship until he's out of office. The MAGAhats, his "base," are simply delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMan70 3,277 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 This is why. 'Most' people don't accept or react to unsourced articles from a media already discredited. Didn't we go through this for 3 years with one unsourced article after another claiming "Trump is a Russian spy" ? Come on people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,160 Posted September 4, 2020 Author Share Posted September 4, 2020 13 minutes ago, IronMan70 said: You are willing to accept charges made in unsourced articles and think the other side is delusional ? smh 1. Anonymous sources on their own are reason to be skeptical, but some of the most important news stories in history have been sourced anonymously. WaPo and Watergate? Boston Globe and the Catholic sex abuse scandal? 2. It's perfectly on brand for Trump, so I'm inclined to believe it. Knowing you, you'll move the goalposts the moment one of these officials is revealed publicly either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,506 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 19 minutes ago, IronMan70 said: This is why. 'Most' people don't accept or react to unsourced articles from a media already discredited. Didn't we go through this for 3 years with one unsourced article after another claiming "Trump is a Russian spy" ? Come on people. The problem with this line of argumentation is, the very same people who will try to discredit an article because it comes from a source they don't like, or that it uses unnamed sources (as if that hasn't been standard practice when the risk of retaliation is high) will turn right around and gobble up bull**** about Obama's birth certificate, or they'll give credence to Hillary and Pizzagate, or they'll believe randos on YouTube and Facebook making unscientific claims about COVID over documented scientific evidence and experts, or they'll buy into shadowy, secret missives from QAnon. Point being: It isn't about unnamed sources because if it was, they wouldn't buy into half the bull**** they do. The real brass tacks of the matter is that it says something they don't like and that attacks their guy. If the same level of sourcing was undermining Biden in some way, they'd have no trouble accepting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubiefifty 16,848 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 33 minutes ago, IronMan70 said: This is why. 'Most' people don't accept or react to unsourced articles from a media already discredited. Didn't we go through this for 3 years with one unsourced article after another claiming "Trump is a Russian spy" ? Come on people. are you saying all the whoppers trump has told is fake news? and i am pretty sure a few names were dropped because unlike you i read the article. at the freaking very least you owe it to those that gave their lives for our county and others the benefit of the doubt. to go research it yourself instead of allowing a peace of crap to diss soldiers who gave all. the sorry bastid was more worried about getting his hair wet than paying honest tribute. and he has done this before with mccain. so now what excuse ya got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdefromtx 3,159 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 I don’t know if it’s true or not. But it wouldn’t surprise me if it is true knowing trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,409 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 This is simply who he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 1 minute ago, wdefromtx said: I don’t know if it’s true or not. But it wouldn’t surprise me if it is true knowing trump. Yup. Like @AUDub said, it's on-brand. We know that he said the exact same thing about McCain. The story is so believable that there's not really much point in falsifying any of it. For any other POTUS, it would be a factory explosion. For this jackass, it's a cigarette butt tossed on the pyre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubiefifty 16,848 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, wdefromtx said: I don’t know if it’s true or not. But it wouldn’t surprise me if it is true knowing trump. wde unless they have changed the atlantic is highly respected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aubiefifty 16,848 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 i would love to meet trump in a boxing match. neither of us can box. we are both lard asses. we are both geezers. he would find a way to cheat. but that is my favorite fantasy right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,506 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 But Nancy got a haircut! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdefromtx 3,159 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 1 hour ago, McLoofus said: Yup. Like @AUDub said, it's on-brand. We know that he said the exact same thing about McCain. The story is so believable that there's not really much point in falsifying any of it. For any other POTUS, it would be a factory explosion. For this jackass, it's a cigarette butt tossed on the pyre. Yeah, he’s trash talk about everyone. Total disrespect about McCain. I liked McCain, for his service in the military and government, he knew when to compromise and lots of folks hated him for that. All the presidents each that had poor approval ratings in the past look a whole lot nicer these days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdefromtx 3,159 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 I got a thumbs up from ICHY! 2020 is a strange year!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, wdefromtx said: Yeah, he’s trash talk about everyone. Total disrespect about McCain. I liked McCain, for his service in the military and government, he knew when to compromise and lots of folks hated him for that. All the presidents each that had poor approval ratings in the past look a whole lot nicer these days! What I would do for a McCain or Kasich to come in and recalibrate the GOP. While I think Biden can do a good job and we absolutely must have him come in and stop the bleeding in government, trump's base is still going to be there and bloodthirsty in 4 years. There is no way a Dem will do anything but make them angrier. Yang could write every one of them a $10k check and they'd send it straight to whoever the new Steve Bannon is in exchange for a stupid red hat and a can of Goya frijoles. But I think a lot of Dems would be grateful- no matter how begrudgingly- for a Republican who didn't represent an existential crisis for our democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdefromtx 3,159 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, McLoofus said: What I would do for a McCain or Kasich to come in and recalibrate the GOP. While I think Biden can do a good job and we absolutely must have him come in and stop the bleeding in government, trump's base is still going to be there and bloodthirsty in 4 years. There is no way a Dem will do anything but make them angrier. Yang could write every one of them a $10k check and they'd send it straight to whoever the new Steve Bannon is in exchange for a stupid red hat and a can of Goya frijoles. But I think a lot of Dems would be grateful- no matter how begrudgingly- for a Republican who didn't represent an existential crisis for our democracy. Yeah, I still vividly remember a debate where Trump, Cruz, Christie, and others were going at each other and yelling and you had Kasich there calm and collected saying something like "If you look at my record and what we have tried to do....etc. etc.) I was like he's going to fallout because he isn't being a child screaming at each other. I miss when there where candidates on both sides one could get behind. One of my favorite Texas governors was Ann Richards. She was a dem, but a touch of republican as well. I describe her as me-maw with a shotgun. She helped kick-start the Texas economy in the early 90's and had prison reform where she was a proponent of substance abuse and mental health support. To help stop inmates from becoming repeat offenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,506 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Quote Here’s All the Corroboration for the Atlantic Story on Trump Attacking Troops https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/09/corroboration-atlantic-report-trump-troops-soldiers-losers-cemetary-amputees.html Not that it will make any difference to the People of the Lie. But for normals, this is useful information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialCircle 570 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 3 hours ago, AUDub said: They'll likely dismiss it as fake news. You are correct as I don't believe it unless I see proof. Sarah Huckabee Sanders says she was there and this is total BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,506 Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 Just now, SocialCircle said: You are correct as I don't believe it unless I see proof. Sarah Huckabee Sanders says she was there and this is total BS. Another sign it's probably true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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