Trump: Americans who died in war are 'losers' and 'suckers'

[McLoofus 35,182]

9 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Trumpism will wreck the GOP for far longer than four more years if you let it.  Could be a decade.  Could be generational.

It's not just a political party at stake here, but otherwise, this. 

[TitanTiger 20,506]

11 minutes ago, johnnyAU said:

I do not share your fear. I have faith that 8 years of Trump, and 2 consecutive elections with crap choices on both sides will bring forth some necessary reflections and real change to both parties. The democrats moving farther and farther left to appease the progressive base will hopefully at some point have a rebound effect as well.  

I can't make people see it.  I can only warn them about it.  

[TitanTiger 20,506]

9 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

It's not just a political party at stake here, but otherwise, this. 

I agree with you.  The implications reach further than the boundaries of the GOP or evangelicalism.  Just trying to appeal to naked self-interest here.

[McLoofus 35,182]

I should be used to this toxic cocktail of crazy and stupid but now, but it's still so bracing to see it actually typed out on the screen. Like... people who have votes really think this way. 

[johnnyAU 3,636]

The country will survive either, but neither is a good choice. The continued rise of the progressive influence of the democratic party is potentially more damaging than 4 years of Trump. 

[homersapien 11,410]

14 hours ago, ToraGirl said:

IT'S THE PLATFORM.

"It's the platform."

It's the platform. 

Worldview usually drives the platform preference, but there are exceptions. Fixate upon Biden/Trump if you must, but it's. the. platform...and that's been the issue all along.  Each of us knows it, no matter the side, the article posted or dissed, and the lipstick-pig wars that define it all. 

Polls should mobilize all people who care to cast their lone vote...but if you think people are honest about their views when asked or if polls themselves are as reliable as some wish they were...Kansas, nevermind Arizona, oceanfront is calling. 

I am not sure what you are trying to say, but it you want to discuss the Democratic platform, then by all means let's do so. 

Let's compare platforms issue by issue.  Oh wait........ Trump doesn't really have a platform does he?  

[Leftfield 2,625]

1 hour ago, Mikey said:

I see Biden/Harris as suicide. America, as we know it, may well not recover from four years of the policies they propose.

Even if you’re right, and for the record I don’t agree, the irony here is that the Republican Party has rolled out the red carpet for this to happen. I’m an Independent but would most closely identify as Libertarian. Usually I vote Republican because I feel it’s easier to keep the government out of bedrooms than it is wallets, but I didn’t trust Trump at all four years ago (I voted Libertarian), even though I understood that many in the US felt like they hadn’t had a voice in a long time and thought Trump could give them that voice again. I will freely admit, however, that I had no idea what to expect of him once in office. I hoped it would prove out that the person we had always known to that point was simply a well-crafted persona designed to hype his own brand for commercial purposes, and once he was making decisions for the country he might turn out to be a surprisingly good leader.

As we all know now, the opposite happened. He proved to be the person we’d always known, and with the validation of being elected his ego ran unchecked and all his characteristics were amplified. It did not take long to realize that he would be even worse than many feared, yet instead of distancing from him, the vast majority of Republicans, especially in Congress, continued to defend and go to bat for him (most still do). Had the majority of Republican leaders had the courage to speak out against Trump when it was warranted, instead of toeing the line at any cost, the damage could have been limited. As it stands, Republicans will almost certainly, and in my opinion deservedly, lose control of Congress, and it will take a long time for much of the population to get the taste of the current Republican Party out of their mouths. Losing control of Congress makes everything you’re afraid of easier for Democrats to obtain.

The most stark example of how much the Republican Party has sold its soul to this man is Mitt Romney. Trump has overtly been pushing the limits and abusing his power from the day he stepped in office, but when it came time to vote on whether there should even be an investigation into that abuse, a single Republican voted yes, and he was almost universally eaten alive by his own party for it. Laughably, many Republicans were saying Romney is only out for himself and voted that way because it would benefit his political career.

[homersapien 11,410]

7 hours ago, johnnyAU said:

If the cancer would be gone after 4 more years, I might not choose chemotherapy.  The GOP can recover from the Trump era.  Can the Democrats prevent themselves from being completely absorbed from within by the progressives, or is a third party eventually inevitable?  The edges are stretching the center thin on both sides. Can the center regain any resemblance of its former self? That would require compromise and setting aside partisanship, which has been looking more formidable over the past dozen years or so.

I disagree.

I have seen more democratic institutions and mores violated in the last 3.5 years than the last 50.  Just look at what's happened in the DOJ alone in the last year or so.

It will be very difficult for us to recover form the damage already done.  (One of the threats is the Democrats will gladly adapt to the corruption when it suits them instead of trying to roll it back to where it was.)

Another 4 years of this sort of corruption will change the angle of our history.

[Leftfield 2,625]

5 minutes ago, homersapien said:

It will be very difficult for us to recover form the damage already done.  (One of the threats is the Democrats will gladly adapt to the corruption when it suits them instead of trying to roll it back to where it was.)

This is a huge point that most overlook. Power creep happens in every administration and it's one reason the Federal government has become so bloated. Trump's abuses and forays into territories that past Presidents left untouched accelerated this. It doesn't matter who is in control, someone in the future will use this as precedent and push even further. This is just from one term in office. If he gets a second, he will push even harder and further.

Every once-in-a-while you hear about Trump mentioning a third term. His supporters play this off as a joke, but I absolutely believe he thinks he can get away with it. The only time Trump "jokes" it involves insulting someone else.

[homersapien 11,410]

On 9/10/2020 at 4:27 PM, Leftfield said:

This is a huge point that most overlook. Power creep happens in every administration and it's one reason the Federal government has become so bloated. Trump's abuses and forays into territories that past Presidents left untouched accelerated this. It doesn't matter who is in control, someone in the future will use this as precedent and push even further. This is just from one term in office. If he gets a second, he will push even harder and further.

Every once-in-a-while you hear about Trump mentioning a third term. His supporters play this off as a joke, but I absolutely believe he thinks he can get away with it. The only time Trump "jokes" it involves insulting someone else.

  (out of likes)

That's why I mentioned the DOJ in particular.  The pre-existing culture was that the Dept of Justice, while a part of the administration, is supposed to be non-partisan.  The AG's job is to represent the American people, not the POTUS.

Now I acknowledge this hasn't always been strictly the case - Kennedy appointed his brother and Nixon appointed a political crony - but the Trump administration, along with Barr have clearly the upended the traditional culture of non-partisanship, which is critically important to our democracy. 

Similar things are happening with the DHS/intelligence community which is just as bad. 

Another four years of this sort of "evolution" and we will have an emperor or authoritarian for life.  Especially if the Rethugs keep control of the Senate.

[ToraGirl 5,498]

10 hours ago, johnnyAU said:

If the cancer would be gone after 4 more years, I might not choose chemotherapy.  The GOP can recover from the Trump era.  Can the Democrats prevent themselves from being completely absorbed from within by the progressives, or is a third party eventually inevitable?  The edges are stretching the center thin on both sides. Can the center regain any resemblance of its former self? That would require compromise and setting aside partisanship, which has been looking more formidable over the past dozen years or so.

And there's still the platform to deal with.  The main characters are the sideshow.  When the freedoms aren't there to defend, it won't matter who is or isn't trying to defend them. We have the advantage of watching HOW many world empires fall throughout history?  We each have a lot of  personal soul-searching to do no matter the worldview. 

[ToraGirl 5,498]

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

This is a huge point that most overlook. Power creep happens in every administration and it's one reason the Federal government has become so bloated. Trump's abuses and forays into territories that past Presidents left untouched accelerated this. It doesn't matter who is in control, someone in the future will use this as precedent and push even further. This is just from one term in office. If he gets a second, he will push even harder and further.

Every once-in-a-while you hear about Trump mentioning a third term. His supporters play this off as a joke, but I absolutely believe he thinks he can get away with it. The only time Trump "jokes" it involves insulting someone else.

Same thing said about Obama.  If we keep the Constitution protected, this won't be a problem.  How both sides can play it against each other was an honest discussion @bigbirdtried to pose a few weeks ago, but some wouldn't have it.  Platform>characters (and there are plenty of those to go around), and most of both threads are about the subset.

We always hope four years down the road the ones we've "recycled" will be replaced with new options.  I'm not a party-liner, but I won't deny the hope I saw at the RNC from some up-and-comers.  Sure they'll be dissed by anyone who doesn't share their worldview...but if those who have the opposite platform preference feel the same hope from what they saw at the DNC, then all should be as well with the future as one can hope at this point...right?  Got hope?

[Leftfield 2,625]

1 hour ago, ToraGirl said:

Same thing said about Obama.  If we keep the Constitution protected, this won't be a problem.  How both sides can play it against each other was an honest discussion @bigbirdtried to pose a few weeks ago, but some wouldn't have it.  Platform>characters (and there are plenty of those to go around), and most of both threads are about the subset.

We always hope four years down the road the ones we've "recycled" will be replaced with new options.  I'm not a party-liner, but I won't deny the hope I saw at the RNC from some up-and-comers.  Sure they'll be dissed by anyone who doesn't share their worldview...but if those who have the opposite platform preference feel the same hope from what they saw at the DNC, then all should be as well with the future as one can hope at this point...right?  Got hope?

Platform may usually, pardon the expression, trump character, but this is the rare case where I don't believe that holds true. Certainly there have been presidents who felt they were above the law and did shady things behind the scenes, but this one overtly scoffs at the limits of his power and bullies, intimidates, and threatens anyone in his way to get what he wants, rule of law be damned. 

Do I have hope? With these two political parties, not much, but I choose to think things will somehow get better. You and I just disagree on the path that gets us there. I agree with @TitanTiger and his cancer analogy in this case. In my opinion Trump presents more of an existential threat to our Republic than the Democrats do. 

[DKW 86 7,437]

On 9/10/2020 at 7:53 AM, Mikey said:

removed until Mikey backs up his claims and stops expecting others to do it for him. - TT

 

 

On 9/10/2020 at 8:00 AM, TitanTiger said:

Trump is suicide.  America might survive. The GOP and conservatism, if they continue to allow Trumpism to infect it, won't.

 

We already have that.  And thus far even when given the chance to curtail abortions in any meaningful way, even Trump's SCOTUS picks have failed to do a damn thing about it.

Keep believing Lucy's gonna let you kick that football, Charlie Brown.  Let me know if the ground starts feeling any softer after repeatedly landing on your back trying.

 

No we won't.

 

Some will have some tax increases.  Most will not.  The real important question though is not "will taxes go up" but rather "what will we do with those revenues?"  If we reduce the deficit or perhaps get back in the black on the budget again, perhaps find a way to get all Americans covered by basic health care, or other things of that nature, then perhaps that's a good ROI.

 

No we won't.  But then again we won't have a dummy lying that he's building a wall and going to make Mexico pay for it while actually only adding about 5 miles of new border fencing.  So there's that.

 

I'll admit that's a downside to the chemo.

Mikey pretty much but the pandering stuff was just BS.

Titan, you get a 95 from the judges. 

The thing that will elect another like Trump is that his supporters dont really like HIM. They hate the elites. They are Tea Party 2.0 If Biden was really wise, he would make amends with those that the DNC has cut off, the Middle Class. Offer them a seat at the table. he would win in a rout. Now the DNC Elites would spontaneously combust, but that is just a side benefit...lol

 

[TitanTiger 20,506]

3 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I suppose you would like links. Sadly, I'm not going to spend a couple of hours scouring every TV show from the Democrat convention onward. These statements have been in the public realm for many weeks now.

Here's the thing.  You don't get to make definitive claims then tell others to do your homework.  If you don't have the time to back concrete accusations of fact up, then don't respond.

[Mikey 16,670]

14 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Here's the thing.  You don't get to make definitive claims then tell others to do your homework.  If you don't have the time to back concrete accusations of fact up, then don't respond.

Very well. I assumed a certain level of knowledge of current events. Since we all know what the first three letters of ASSumed are, I shall attempt to refrain from making such assumptions in the future.

 

[McLoofus 35,182]

Interesting take from the guy who whined like a petulant toddler because E wouldn't google recruiting info for him.

 

[TitanTiger 20,506]

28 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Very well. I assumed a certain level of knowledge of current events. Since we all know what the first three letters of ASSumed are, I shall attempt to refrain from making such assumptions in the future.

You can take snide shots all you want, but it's one of the most basic tenets of debate and argumentation that if you make a positive claim about something or someone, then it is on YOU to back that up.  If everyone has the same understanding as you and they take your word for it, great.  But if not, you don't get to be smug and tell them to go find documentation for YOUR argument.

That goes double in this particular forum.  It's not my fault you prefer laziness.

[DKW 86 7,437]

2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

Here's the thing.  You don't get to make definitive claims then tell others to do your homework.  If you don't have the time to back concrete accusations of fact up, then don't respond.

Wow...homey aint gonna like that one...

[AUFAN78 3,926]

6 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

Wow...homey aint gonna like that one...

Definitely not a two way street. Well done sir.