homersapien 11,373 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 The last debate is the final straw Opinion by Jennifer Rubin Oct. 22, 2020 The good news is that we likely will never be forced to endure another debate featuring President Trump. The better news is that even before the Thursday night event, Trump sabotaged himself by pre-releasing an interview for “60 Minutes” with CBS News’s Lesley Stahl in which he declared flatly that he hoped the Supreme Court would invalidate the Affordable Care Act. "I hope that they end it. It’ll be so good if they end it,” Trump said. This is what they call in soccer an “own goal.” Former vice president Joe Biden could not have asked for more going into a debate. But as a bonus, Trump not only displayed his whiny, thin-skinned demeanor, but he also let on that he has no replacement health-care plan for Obamacare. Nothing that occurred during Thursday night’s debate increases the chances we will have to endure four more years of the unhinged, know-nothing narcissistic president. Voters who made it through the 90-minute event saw a sharper, more fact-filled Biden than they have seen in previous performances. Meanwhile, the meandering, mean-spirited president was forced to resort to a flood of lies. First, Trump appeared subdued at the onset. Deprived of the opportunity to interrupt by the mute button, he rambled and repeated self-congratulations during his time allotments. He insisted he could raise as much money as Biden has (claiming incorrectly that Biden’s had received the bulk of his money from Wall Street), but chose not to. Trump is plainly sensitive that he was clobbered in the money race. He has never learned what matters to voters. When Biden argued that we should talk about real issues affecting American families, Trump mocked him. Rarely has a politician showed such contempt for voters. Never has a president bragged that a dictator liked him more than his predecessor. Trump’s reticence was short-lived as he embarked on long-winded and often incoherent riffs filled with ludicrous accusations. Second, Trump still has not come up with a realistic plan to fight covid-19. He has yet to develop any sense of compassion, and he remains unable to take responsibility for the crisis. “I take full responsibility," he said during the debate, before adding: “It’s not my fault that [the virus] came here.” Most galling, he insisted we are “learning to live with” the pandemic. Biden pounced to reiterate that more than 220,000 Americans have died from the disease. Once more, Trump was illogical and nonsensical: “We have the best testing in the world by far — that’s why we have so many cases!" Third, Trump was so intent on spinning strange and convoluted conspiracy theories that it is doubtful anyone outside the loony-tunes world of right-wing media understood what he was talking about. (At one point, Trump said something about Biden selling pillows and sheets.) All Biden had to do was smile and suppress a laugh. He also effectively brought up Trump’s refusal to release his taxes, taunting him to make them public. Fourth, Biden was strongest on health care, reminding us that Trump has no plan and has never had one. He reiterated his support for a public option, not for Medicare-for-all. His best line may have been: "Ten million people now have pre-existing conditions because of the president’s handling of covid. What are they going to do?” As Trump insisted Biden wanted to destroy private health insurance, Biden responded, "He’s a very confused guy. He thinks he’s running against someone else. He’s running against me, Joe Biden.” Fifth, Biden made hay of his focus on working- and middle-class Americans, pointing out that Trump’s measure of success is the stock market. "Where I come from in Scranton and Claymont, the people don’t live off the stock market,” Biden said. His emphatic support for a $15 minimum wage was likely a winner in critical swing states. When Trump started trashing “Democrat cities,” Biden shot back that he would be the president for all of Americans. Sixth, Trump’s utter lack of decency came when he insisted conditions for kids at the border were just swell. ("They are so well taken care of. They are in facilities that were so clean,” Trump said.) Biden emotionally hit back, “Separating children from their parents violates every value we hold as a nation.” Asked about Black parents who have to have the “talk” with children about encounters with the police that can turn fatal, Biden gave an empathetic answer acknowledging institutional racism; Trump hilariously claimed to have done more for African Americans than any other president since Abraham Lincoln. Finally, on climate change, Biden made his case on job growth and green energy as Trump insisted windmills “kills all the birds.” He added this mumbo jumbo: “And the fumes coming up, if you are a believer in carbon emission, the fumes coming up to make these massive windmills is more than anything we’re talking about with natural gas, which is very clean.” It was one more reminder Trump is stunningly ignorant. Biden had the final words of the debate, making a heartfelt pitch for decency and character. If Americans decide that is the defining issue, the election will not be close. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/10/22/last-debate-is-final-straw/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,482 Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 6 hours ago, homersapien said: Have you ever had speak for 90 minutes at a time? I once had to manage a day long seminar which including several sessions presented by me. My vocal cords were aching toward the end. And it's difficult to maintain your mental focus. (And this was with frequent breaks.) Anyway, I noticed several stumbles by Biden but his performance totally dispelled any doubts I have about his ability to do the job mentally and physically. I agree about Trump. It was extremely disjointed and very revealing about his personality. He is not fit for the office. I never thought this about Obama, Romney, McCain, or even GW Bush who wasn't exactly known for riveting oratory. And I'm not saying anything I saw from Biden was disqualifying. Just an observation. Neither are very good at this format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McLoofus 35,182 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 1 hour ago, TitanTiger said: I never thought this about Obama, Romney, McCain, or even GW Bush who wasn't exactly known for riveting oratory. And I'm not saying anything I saw from Biden was disqualifying. Just an observation. Neither are very good at this format. I agree. It's honestly painful to listen to Biden speak at a podium. It's a real problem in terms of campaigning and would be a major problem against a more formidable opponent. Hopefully it doesn't turn off too many undecideds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialCircle 570 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 10 hours ago, Brad_ATX said: Kind of thought it was a stalemate, which fundamentally is a win for Biden since he's up in the polls. Trump needed something big to go in his direction tonight and I didn't see it. And yes, moderator was great, but I also think the muting of the mics for the first part of each section set the right tone. I think you will look back after the election and see that you are wrong here. I think history will show Biden saying what he did about the oil industry will cost him this election as it will swing PA to Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ATX 13,654 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, SocialCircle said: I think you will look back after the election and see that you are wrong here. I think history will show Biden saying what he did about the oil industry will cost him this election as it will swing PA to Trump. $20 says I'm right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,876 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 8 minutes ago, SocialCircle said: I think you will look back after the election and see that you are wrong here. I think history will show Biden saying what he did about the oil industry will cost him this election as it will swing PA to Trump. I agree with this guy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,876 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 The oil comment may minimize Biden’s already slim chances in Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,482 Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 49 minutes ago, TexasTiger said: The oil comment may minimize Biden’s already slim chances in Texas. I have never felt like Biden was going to win Texas. But the fact that he's made it close has forced Trump to spend a lot of money there on ads in a place he should be able to effectively ignore, giving him that money to use elsewhere (such as FL, MI, PA, and WI). So even without winning it, Biden has sapped the Trump campaign of much needed energy and resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ATX 13,654 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, TitanTiger said: I have never felt like Biden was going to win Texas. But the fact that he's made it close has forced Trump to spend a lot of money there on ads in a place he should be able to effectively ignore, giving him that money to use elsewhere (such as FL, MI, PA, and WI). So even without winning it, Biden has sapped the Trump campaign of much needed energy and resources. This. Forcing the Trump campaign to even spend a dime here is a win for Biden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,482 Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 Just now, Brad_ATX said: This. Forcing the Trump campaign to even spend a dime here is a win for Biden. They showed a graphic on ad spending over the last few weeks and Texas was the number one ad spend for Trump. Something like $8.3 million. The next closest one was like $2-3 million less (and was Florida I think). But I'm sure that a campaign running a $20M deficit to their opponent in campaign money sure would like to have redistributed $8.3M to places like PA or FL instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,876 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 26 minutes ago, TitanTiger said: I have never felt like Biden was going to win Texas. But the fact that he's made it close has forced Trump to spend a lot of money there on ads in a place he should be able to effectively ignore, giving him that money to use elsewhere (such as FL, MI, PA, and WI). So even without winning it, Biden has sapped the Trump campaign of much needed energy and resources. The biggest sap on campaign was graft and grift from within. Started raising money from day one. Had no primary opponent. Raised what was then a record amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUDub 11,148 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 2 hours ago, TexasTiger said: I agree with this guy: I actually listen to his podcast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 12,876 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, AUDub said: I actually listen to his podcast. I often find him annoying. But he’s a generally rational, center right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArgoEagle 1,788 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 11 hours ago, DKW 86 said: And you get a time out from Twitter, Facebook, and the Cool Kids Club...lmao... Then my life is now over. Goodbye cruel world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SocialCircle 570 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Brad_ATX said: $20 says I'm right I’m not a betting man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,482 Posted October 23, 2020 Author Share Posted October 23, 2020 12 minutes ago, SocialCircle said: I’m not a betting man. Which explains why you freely take so many flyers on which states you think Trump will steal in the waning moments. It's a lot easier to make such daring predictions with no skin in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ATX 13,654 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 29 minutes ago, SocialCircle said: I’m not a betting man. Too bad. I like easy money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,373 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 4 hours ago, SocialCircle said: I think you will look back after the election and see that you are wrong here. I think history will show Biden saying what he did about the oil industry will cost him this election as it will swing PA to Trump. Yeah, how stupid of him to tell the American people the actual truth about the need to start transitioning to renewable energy. As I have said several times, if Trump wins, we deserve him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homersapien 11,373 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 How politically damaging were Biden’s comments about closing down the oil industry? Biden said at the debate he would transition away from oil, then later clarified that he would stop giving federal subsidies to the industry. Amber Phillips Oct. 23, 2020 Before the debate, President Trump said his advisers urged him to interrupt less and let Joe Biden talk more, the better to let the Democratic nominee slip up. Toward the end of the debate, Trump may have gotten what he wanted — a Biden comment about closing down the oil industry that probably won’t play well in states up for grabs this November, such as Texas and Pennsylvania. But there’s also evidence that Trump is the candidate on the defensive when it comes to public opinion and climate change. Here’s what happened: Trump: “Would you close down the oil industry?” Biden: “Yes. I would transition.” Trump: “That is a big statement.” Biden: “That is a big statement.” Trump: “Why would you do that?” Biden: “Because the oil industry pollutes, significantly. … Because it has to be replaced by renewable energy over time, over time. And I’d stop giving to the oil industry, I’d stop giving them federal subsidies.” Trump: “Basically, what he is saying is he’s going to destroy the oil industry. Will you remember that, Texas? Will you remember that, Pennsylvania, Oklahoma?” Biden: “He takes everything out of context. But the point is, we have to move toward a net zero emissions. The first place to do that by the year 2035 is in energy production. By 2050: Totally.” Biden’s “yes” answer to closing down the oil industry was potentially serious enough for him to try to clarify his remarks to reporters later at the airport. He said he would stop giving money to the oil industry, rather than close it down entirely: “We’re not going to get rid of fossil fuels. We’re going to get rid of subsidies for fossil fuels.” The above statement might still be used as an attack by Trump, who could distort it to claim Biden is open to finding ways to shutter one of the most powerful industries in America. But Trump doesn’t have to try to work with just Biden’s second statement; Biden initially answered in the affirmative when asked if he would close the oil industry, even if he tried to clarify it later and stress that none of his changes would happen right away. Biden's fracking comments could cost him Pennsylvania voters The problem for Biden is that he is running against someone ready and willing to pounce on any perceived mistake — see Hillary Clinton’s emails — and amplify them as loudly as possible, even if or when it gets away from the facts. It calls to mind how, at a Democratic presidential debate, Biden said “no new fracking.” It might be a popular thing to say in a Democratic primary, but not in a general election, where fracking is a significant employer in states such as Pennsylvania, Ohio and Texas. His campaign clarified immediately afterward that he wants no new fracking permits on public lands, a position that would let most fracking continue. “I am not banning fracking,” Biden felt the need to say in Pittsburgh months later, in September. Joe Biden's 'I'm not banning fracking' defense, explained To this day — even at this final debate — Trump seizes on that one line from that one March debate to inaccurately describe Biden’s position. “He was against fracking, he said it,” Trump claimed Thursday night. Now Trump may have something stronger to work with. Still, Biden saying he would close down the oil industry in a national presidential debate may not be the gold nugget Trump is looking for. As The Washington Post’s climate team reports, fossil fuels that Biden wants to stop giving federal subsidies to are a major contributor of climate change. Americans’ anxieties about climate change are high. Wildfires, hurricanes, floods, derechos in Iowa are all giving more attention to scientists’ warnings that in about a decade, without action, the planet will be irreversibly, catastrophically damaged. A 2019 Washington Post and Kaiser Family Foundation poll found that two-thirds of Americans say Trump is doing too little on climate change, and about half said action is urgently needed in the next decade. That’s consistent with what Biden regularly says. (“Global warming is an existential threat to humanity,” he said Thursday. “We have a moral obligation to deal with it. And we’re told by all the leading scientists in the world we don’t have much time.”) Americans’ climate concerns have continued throughout the pandemic. An October Pew Research Center survey found that 68 percent of voters said climate change is a very or somewhat important factor in their decision on whom to vote for. On climate change, perhaps even more so than any other campaign issue, the contrast between Biden and Trump is stark. Biden has put together a climate plan to transition America to clean energy by 2050. Trump has been one of the most anti-climate-change presidents ever, describing it as a “hoax” and pulling out of a major international agreement to lower emissions. Some Republican strategists have been worrying in recent years that their party could lose voters if they don’t turn around on this issue quickly. But both candidates are insulated somewhat by partisanship. That Pew survey found climate change ranks as very important for 68 percent of Biden voters. It ranks last in importance for most Trump voters. To the extent Trump bashes Biden on his oil comments, he may just be speaking to his own supporters already. And the same goes for Biden as he talks about dealing with climate change. Biden’s comments could reverberate below him, though. Two vulnerable House Democrats in oil-producing states, Kendra Horn in Oklahoma and Xochitl Torres Small in New Mexico, immediately distanced themselves from Biden on this. Here’s one of the places Biden and I disagree. We must stand up for our oil and gas industry. We need an all-of-the-above energy approach that’s consumer friendly, values energy independence, and protects OK jobs. I'll keep fighting for that in Congress. https://t.co/9fIaZ8pyY1 — Kendra Horn (@HornForCongress) October 23, 2020 I disagree with VP Biden's statement tonight. Energy is part of the backbone of New Mexico’s economy. We need to work together to promote responsible energy production and stop climate change, not demonize a single industry. 1/2 — Xochitl Torres Small (@XochforCongress) October 23, 2020 Biden handed Trump an opening in Thursday’s debates to raise doubts about the Democrat in swing states, especially Pennsylvania, which strategists on both sides see as the potential tipping-point state this November. As Democrats learned in 2016, margins matter. But public opinion is also on Biden’s side on the larger question of dealing aggressively with climate change. And then there’s the fact that no issue — not even the economy — has been able to rise above the coronavirus pandemic and Trump’s handling of it. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/10/23/how-politically-damaging-were-bidens-comments-about-closing-down-oil-industry/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,424 Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 2 hours ago, ArgoEagle said: Then my life is now over. Goodbye cruel world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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