'Fixing' intelligence

[Tiger Al 0]

By now, all members of the Commission on the Intelligence Capabilities of the United States Regarding Weapons of Mass Destruction ought to have fallen on their swords.

Why?

Here is the way the commissioners began their report made to President Bush just a month before the London Sunday Times published the so-called Downing Street Memo.

On the brink of war, and in front of the whole world, the United States government asserted that Saddam Hussein had reconstituted his nuclear weapons program, had biological weapons and mobile biological weapon production facilities, and had stockpiled and was producing chemical weapons.

All of this was based on the assessments of the U.S. intelligence community.

And not one bit of it could be confirmed when the war was over.

What was contained in the Downing Street Memo that should cause Commission members to fall on their swords?

Well, central to the memo was the report Richard Dearlove – director of the British equivalent of our CIA – made of his just-completed talks with then-CIA Director George Tenet and then-National Security Adviser Condi Rice.

Dearlove reported that "military action was now seen as inevitable. Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

Intelligence was being "fixed"? Now, admittedly, the Commission's report was about U.S. intelligence capabilities.

And the Commission did note that all of these ridiculous charges about Saddam's "reconstitution" of his WMD capabilities – known to have been completely destroyed under U.N. supervision by 1997– were based upon "assessments of the U.S. intelligence community."

But shouldn't the Commission have at least mentioned – if not lamented – the inexplicable failure of our intelligence community to even take note of – much less accept – the reports provided them by the International Atomic Energy Agency, especially in the months leading up to the pre-emptive attack on Iraq to "disarm" Saddam Hussein?

In his final report before being forced to withdraw from Iraq at the end of 1998 by President Clinton, Director General Mohamed ElBaradei had reported:

"The verification activities have revealed no indications that Iraq had achieved its program objective of producing nuclear weapons or that Iraq had produced more than a few grams of weapon-usable nuclear material or had clandestinely acquired such material.

Furthermore, there are no indications that there remains in Iraq any physical capability for the production of weapon-usable nuclear material of any practical significance.

But even more significantly, ElBaradei reported:

There were no indications of significant discrepancies between the technically coherent picture that had evolved of Iraq's clandestine nuclear weapons program and the information contained in Iraq's "Full, Final and Complete Declaration."

In other words, as of late 1998, the Iraqis were telling the truth!

Nevertheless, in 2002 Bush claimed to have "slam-dunk" intelligence that Saddam had not only reconstituted his nuke programs, but would have nukes to give terrorists within a year or less.

So ElBaradei and his IAEA inspectors went back in and conducted a total of 218 inspections at 141 sites, including 21 sites designated by Bush that the IAEA had never inspected before.

Result? On March 7, 2003, ElBaradei told the Security Council:

"After three months of intrusive inspections, we have to date found no evidence or plausible indication of the revival of a nuclear weapon program in Iraq."

Twelve days later Bush invaded Iraq.

There is no evidence that Bush-Cheney-Rice paid any attention whatsoever at any time to the null results obtained in Iraq by the U.N.'s intrusive go-anywhere see-anything inspectors.

On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence that Bush et al. disputed their results and attempted to influence – "fix" is the word Dearlove used – their conclusions.

They even "bugged" ElBaradei and Hans Blix, chairman of the U.N. Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission, hoping to learn something they could use to "influence" them. 

So, shouldn't the Commission have at least mentioned the fact that U.N. inspectors refuted every one of the specific charges made by Bush-Cheney-Rice-Powell, supposedly based upon U.S. intelligence assessments?

The "yellowcake" from Niger? Forgeries.

The "aluminum" tubes? Rockets.

The mobile "bio-warfare" lab? Hydrogen for weather balloons.

All Bush-Cheney-Rice-Powell charges refuted publicly, with "expert" support.

Nevertheless, the Commission concluded there was no evidence that Bush-Cheney had "fixed" U.S. intelligence so as to provide a justification to wage war on Iraq.

But what is inexplicable is the Commission's failure to note the well-documented attempts by Bush-Cheney to intimidate ElBaradei and Hans Blix and to "fix" the findings of their U.N. inspectors.

LINK

[DKW 86 7,440]

Everyone in the world thought the same thing. Bad intelligence from the previous administration here and abroad was common.

Anyone remember the famous "Yellow Cake" evidece that came from Mr. Richard Dearlove?

Blair asserted it was true for months and months afterwards.

[Tiger Al 0]

Everyone in the world thought the same thing. Bad intelligence from the previous administration here and abroad was common.

Anyone remember the famous "Yellow Cake" evidece that came from Mr. Richard Dearlove?

Blair asserted it was true for months and months afterwards.

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Three months worth of UNMOVIC prior to invasion proved intelligence wrong. We chose to invade anyway.

[DKW 86 7,440]

And 17 totally ignored UN resolutions lead many to believe that Saddam was doing all in his power to hide those weapons. remember, the inspectors were never given free access to anything during those 9 or so years and were actually thrown out of the country a time or two as well.

[Tiger Al 0]

And 17 totally ignored UN resolutions lead many to believe that Saddam was doing all in his power to hide those weapons. remember, the inspectors were never given free access to anything during those 9 or so years and were actually thrown out of the country a time or two as well.

164632[/snapback]

The UN had been successful in disarming Iraq. Many involved in that process said as much before the war. Their characters were assasinated and their voices were squelched. Remember, you're either with US (Bush, et al) or you're with the terrorists.

UNSCOM wasn't kicked out of Iraq. Clinton had them withdrawn before Operation Desert Fox in 1998. You are correct, however, in that inspectors were denied access to some presidential palaces. For three months prior to our invasion, UNMOVIC was given unconditional and unrestricted access throughout Iraq. No WMD. We knew that before we attacked Iraq to rid it of WMD. David, face it...you were duped and you willingly continue to give your consent for more of the same.

[DKW 86 7,440]

And 17 totally ignored UN resolutions lead many to believe that Saddam was doing all in his power to hide those weapons. remember, the inspectors were never given free access to anything during those 9 or so years and were actually thrown out of the country a time or two as well.

164632[/snapback]

The UN had been successful in disarming Iraq. Many involved in that process said as much before the war. Their characters were assasinated and their voices were squelched. Remember, you're either with US (Bush, et al) or you're with the terrorists.

UNSCOM wasn't kicked out of Iraq. Clinton had them withdrawn before Operation Desert Fox in 1998. You are correct, however, in that inspectors were denied access to some presidential palaces. For three months prior to our invasion, UNMOVIC was given unconditional and unrestricted access throughout Iraq. No WMD. We knew that before we attacked Iraq to rid it of WMD. David, face it...you were duped and you willingly continue to give your consent for more of the same.

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Again you are wrong Al. I want the troops home now. I just cannot abide about lying about our troops and the rest of the Liberal hogwash. The entire world thought Saddam had WMDs.

[Tiger Al 0]

And 17 totally ignored UN resolutions lead many to believe that Saddam was doing all in his power to hide those weapons. remember, the inspectors were never given free access to anything during those 9 or so years and were actually thrown out of the country a time or two as well.

164632[/snapback]

The UN had been successful in disarming Iraq. Many involved in that process said as much before the war. Their characters were assasinated and their voices were squelched. Remember, you're either with US (Bush, et al) or you're with the terrorists.

UNSCOM wasn't kicked out of Iraq. Clinton had them withdrawn before Operation Desert Fox in 1998. You are correct, however, in that inspectors were denied access to some presidential palaces. For three months prior to our invasion, UNMOVIC was given unconditional and unrestricted access throughout Iraq. No WMD. We knew that before we attacked Iraq to rid it of WMD. David, face it...you were duped and you willingly continue to give your consent for more of the same.

164641[/snapback]

Again you are wrong Al. I want the trops home now. I just cannot abide about lying about our troops and the rest of the Liberal hogwash.

Everybody's lying. That's the GOP excuse for everything, Dave.

The entire worlsd thought Saddam had WMDs.

No, David, the entire world DIDN'T think that. Maybe everyone in YOUR world thought so.

[DKW 86 7,440]

John Kerry did, so did Edwards, Leiberman, Clinton, etc.

[Tiger Al 0]

John Kerry did, so did Edwards, Leiberman, Clinton, etc.

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They were relying on intel from 1998 when they (Kerry, Edwards, Lieberman) voted to authorize based on Bush's word to give UNMOVIC the opportunity to determine if WMD existed and use the military only as a last resort. UNMOVIC, under the direction of the same intel that they used, found nothing. No chemicals, no nukes, no bio-labs, nothing. Sooner or later this will sink in. We KNEW the intel Bush was using was wrong BEFORE we invaded. We KNEW that UNSCOM had effectively disarmed Iraq BEFORE we invaded. To claim 'bad intelligence' after the fact is simply dishonest and, yet, you keep gulping it down like a drunk at 'last call.' Bush didn't live up to his word by using military force only as a last resort as he said he would.

Clinton had the same 1998 intel but didn't have benefit of a UNMOVIC 'search warrant.' He didn't start a war of choice. Bush did.

[AURaptor 1,126]

He didn't start a war of choice. Bush did.

Guess that's what makes Bush a real leader and Clinton nothing more than an empty shell.

[DKW 86 7,440]

John Kerry did, so did Edwards, Leiberman, Clinton, etc.

164671[/snapback]

They were relying on intel from 1998 when they (Kerry, Edwards, Lieberman) voted to authorize based on Bush's word to give UNMOVIC the opportunity to determine if WMD existed and use the military only as a last resort. UNMOVIC, under the direction of the same intel that they used, found nothing. No chemicals, no nukes, no bio-labs, nothing. Sooner or later this will sink in. We KNEW the intel Bush was using was wrong BEFORE we invaded. We KNEW that UNSCOM had effectively disarmed Iraq BEFORE we invaded. To claim 'bad intelligence' after the fact is simply dishonest and, yet, you keep gulping it down like a drunk at 'last call.' Bush didn't live up to his word by using military force only as a last resort as he said he would.

Clinton had the same 1998 intel but didn't have benefit of a UNMOVIC 'search warrant.' He didn't start a war of choice. Bush did.

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Well then why did all those listed vote for authorization in 2002-2003?

Look I understand none were found. I also remember that Clinton in 2001 warned the Bush Administration about Iraqi WMD in the transtition papers.

[Tiger Al 0]

John Kerry did, so did Edwards, Leiberman, Clinton, etc.

164671[/snapback]

They were relying on intel from 1998 when they (Kerry, Edwards, Lieberman) voted to authorize based on Bush's word to give UNMOVIC the opportunity to determine if WMD existed and use the military only as a last resort. UNMOVIC, under the direction of the same intel that they used, found nothing. No chemicals, no nukes, no bio-labs, nothing. Sooner or later this will sink in. We KNEW the intel Bush was using was wrong BEFORE we invaded. We KNEW that UNSCOM had effectively disarmed Iraq BEFORE we invaded. To claim 'bad intelligence' after the fact is simply dishonest and, yet, you keep gulping it down like a drunk at 'last call.' Bush didn't live up to his word by using military force only as a last resort as he said he would.

Clinton had the same 1998 intel but didn't have benefit of a UNMOVIC 'search warrant.' He didn't start a war of choice. Bush did.

164682[/snapback]

Well then why did all those listed vote for authorization in 2002-2003?

Look I understand none were found. I also remember that Clinton in 2001 warned the Bush Administration about Iraqi WMD in the transtition papers.

164687[/snapback]

Dave, read real slow...BASED ON INTELLIGENCE FROM 1998. It makes no difference what Clinton thought in 2001. In Dec. 2002-Mar. 2003, UNMOVIC disproved all of our assumptions about WMD.

What you keep saying is like me telling you 50 places in the Appalachians where you can find gold mines based on a map I found from 5 years ago. We're set to go mining but, before, I send a team of people to the Appalachians with my map and site after site is the same: NO GOLD. Instead of altering my plan, I take off armed with my map and when, 3 years and 1700 dead crewman later, I say, "Oops! The map was wrong!" And then, I have my supporters run down a list of quotes from people saying that there's gold in them hills, but, they're saying that 5 years ago or more based on my map, not on the teams report who went in earlier.

Now, the Downing Street Memo comes out and shows that Bush was 'fixing' the intelligence and the facts around his policy. In other words, he wanted to invade Iraq and only presented the facts that supported his policy. Forget that there were other facts and intelligence to consider that rebuffed his assertions. His mind was made up before UNMOVIC ever disproved the intel.

If our aim was disarmament, as he said, why would he pull UNMOVIC out of Iraq when they were finding Iraq to be disarmed?

[DKW 86 7,440]

And hindsight is always 20-20. The inspectors that said just before we went in, there werent any WMDs, were the ones saying they were there, or that we could not verify them for years before.

See my post on the DSM. Seems no one has an original copy of the memo...The copiesused were typed on an old conventional typewriter, and then the xeroxed copies were then burned. WHY would anyone do that after Rathergate?

There are now many out there loudly wondering if these docs are true, fakes, or another Karl Rove setup.

Stay Tuned......

[Tiger Al 0]

And hindsight is always 20-20. The inspectors that said just before we went in, there werent any WMDs, were the ones saying they were there, or that we could not verify them for years before.

See my post on the DSM. Seems no one has an original copy of the memo...The copiesused were typed on an old conventional typewriter, and then the xeroxed copies were then burned. WHY would anyone do that after Rathergate?

There are now many out there loudly wondering if these docs are true, fakes, or another Karl Rove setup.

Stay Tuned......

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David, I'm seriously not trying to insult you here, but, are you really this dense? We're not talking about hindsight.

DSM...ahh, someone's lying, huh? It's been over a month since its release and NEITHER Bush nor Blair has denied their authenticity. Two British officials have confirmed them. Yeah, somebody's lying, alright. Where's the link to this 'debunking?' Oh, you can't find it now? If it's Drudge, don't bother.

[DKW 86 7,440]

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=17622

Get it yourself Einstein.

[Tiger Al 0]

http://www.aunation.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=17622

Get it yourself Einstein.

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Those aren't the Downing Street Memo, mastermind.

As for them, we'll see how it turns out.