Is Auburn football facing a talent issue?

[aubiefifty 17,313]

 

[gr82b4au 5,568]

Is Auburn football facing a talent issue?

Yes

[im4aual 489]

Yes

[woodford 3,682]

[aubiefifty 17,313]

i wish you guys were more clear in your answers.................lol

[Mikey 16,779]

Not as much as people want to think. Talent-wise, we don't equal UAT, UGA or recently, A&M. Nobody else does either. Throughout Auburn's history, we've never consistently out-recruited those people, plus Florida and Tennessee. Yet, our head to head records are very close to 50/50. Auburn's way of winning has been to be fairly close in recruiting and work harder with what we have.

"There are enough players out there for everybody. What you do with 'em after you get 'em is more important than who you get."~~~ Pat Dye

[Newbomb 193]

Perhaps this is a discussion for the recruiting board but with the recent decline of the Florida Schools... Miami, FSU and UF why haven't we been able to make more inroads into these fertile recruiting areas?

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

8 minutes ago, Newbomb said:

Perhaps this is a discussion for the recruiting board but with the recent decline of the Florida Schools... Miami, FSU and UF why haven't we been able to make more inroads into these fertile recruiting areas?

Its not that simple.  Today's record doesn't always equal recruiting rankings.

UF has had back-to-back top 10 classes.  FSU finished higher in recruiting than us from 2017 -2019.

I use the Texas example.  Had three straight top 10 finishes from 2018 - 2020, including back to back #3 classes.  They haven't won a damn thing to justify getting that kind of talent, but they do.

We also haven't been developing and sending many guys to the pros.  That hurts.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Brad_ATX

[Sizzle 3,926]

We’re struggling with OL talent

[SRBautigerfan 1,040]

I don't think we're that far off in certain spots.  It's just that there's a lack of quality depth and a lack of play makers on the team.  If we had just one playmaker at WR this offense would be a lot more effective just by adding one guy.  

[CoffeeTiger 5,291]

9 minutes ago, Mikey said:

Not as much as people want to think. Talent-wise, we don't equal UAT, UGA or recently, A&M. Nobody else does either. Throughout Auburn's history, we've never consistently out-recruited those people, plus Florida and Tennessee. Yet, our head to head records are very close to 50/50. Auburn's way of winning has been to be fairly close in recruiting and work harder with what we have.

"There are enough players out there for everybody. What you do with 'em after you get 'em is more important than who you get."~~~ Pat Dye

History shows that you have to be elite in recruiting to win national championships.

In the last 20 years the following schools have won national titles:

Alabama- X6

Clemson X2

LSU X2

Florida X2

Ohio State X2

Auburn X1

Florida St X1

Miami X1

USC X1 (vacated)

Oklahoma X1

Texas X1

That's 11 different teams in 20 years. How many of those national champions weren't elite recruiters constantly taking in top 10 classes at the time they won? 

I agree, you can make the argument that Auburn is probably the only member of this group that wasn't a top recruiter and actually DID win by doing more with less, but at the same time we all know that Cam Newton was the #1 reason we didn't have 2-3 losses that season, and he kind of fell into our lap out of Jr College cause nobody really knew what kind of talent he really was. 

Reality is that yes, you can have 'good' seasons with mediocre recruiting because most teams in the nation are mediocre recruiters, but to win Championships you have be near the top of the recruiting rankings consistently.  

Averagely coached amazing talent will beat amazingly coached average talent in most cases. 

 

 

[bigbird 60,597]

37 minutes ago, Mikey said:

There are enough players out there for everybody. What you do with 'em after you get 'em is more important than who you get."~~~ Pat Dye

Agreed.

 

What we have isn't a talent issue, it's a development problem. The development deficit for CBH to fix is a lot larger at specific groups than many wanted to admit the past few years. 

 

Why are we suffering at WR? Because the last 3 years we only used 3-4 receivers. Zero depth built.

Why are we suffering on the OL? Because we failed to secure any tackles and have zero depth to create any competition.

Why is the QB position behind? Because there has been zero depth there to create competition to push each other. When there was, Gus chose tFr Bo over Malik Willis. Wrong and bad choice.

[McLoofus 35,182]

15 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Averagely coached amazing talent will beat amazingly coached average talent in most cases. 

That's just Mikey doing his thing. What he's really saying is that Gus Malzahn recruited just fine and if Harsin doesn't win with these players, it's a Harsin problem.

Oh, and everything Pat Dye ever said is still the gospel 30 years later. 

[SRBautigerfan 1,040]

As far as NFL talent, according to Ourlads.com current active SEC players in the NFL are as follows...

1.  UA- 71

2.  LSU- 58

3.  UGA and UF- 48

4.  A&M-  35

5.  USC- 34

6.  Auburn- 31

7.  UT- 30

8.  MSU- 28

9.  Mizzou- 24

10. Ole Miss- 23

11.  Ark- 22

12.  UK- 20

13.  Vandy- 18

Also, when those other two join the SEC...

Texas-  36

Oklahoma-  41

We would be pushed down to the middle of the league.

Edited November 10, 2021 by SRBautigerfan

[steeleagle 2,945]

24 minutes ago, SRBautigerfan said:

As far as NFL talent, according to Ourlads.com current active SEC players in the NFL are as follows...

1.  UA- 71

2.  LSU- 58

3.  UGA and UF- 48

4.  A&M-  35

5.  USC- 34

6.  Auburn- 31

7.  UT- 30

8.  MSU- 28

9.  Mizzou- 24

10. Ole Miss- 23

11.  Ark- 22

12.  UK- 20

13.  Vandy- 18

 

I'm surprised Ga is at only 48, but its possible that Smart's recruiting is just now taking off and getting players to the pros.

We SHOULD be in the range of GA's or FLa's, but as you can see we are at least 15 players behind. And it's only going to go down I think for the next couple years bc of what Gus left Harsin.

Harsin can build that up with development to some degree, but he HAS to start getting top 10-15 recruiting classes starting  with 2023 to maintain or elevate our team with elite players who go on to play in the NFL.

[SRBautigerfan 1,040]

2 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

I'm surprised Ga is at only 48, but its possible that Smart's recruiting is just now taking off and getting players to the pros.

We SHOULD be in the range of GA's or FLa's, but as you can see we are at least 15 players behind. And it's only going to go down I think for the next couple years bc of what Gus left Harsin.

Harsin can build that up with development to some degree, but he HAS to start getting top 10-15 recruiting classes starting  with 2023 to maintain or elevate our team with elite players who go on to play in the NFL.

Adding TX and OK to the mix won't make it any easier on Auburn.  When do they join?

[steeleagle 2,945]

45 minutes ago, bigbird said:

Agreed.

 

What we have isn't a talent issue, it's a development problem. The development deficit for CBH to fix is a lot larger at specific groups than many wanted to admit the past few years. 

 

Why are we suffering at WR? Because the last 3 years we only used 3-4 receivers. Zero depth built.

Why are we suffering on the OL? Because we failed to secure any tackles and have zero depth to create any competition.

Why is the QB position behind? Because there has been zero depth there to create competition to push each other. When there was, Gus chose tFr Bo over Malik Willis. Wrong and bad choice.

Its actually both, depending on the position group you are talking about.

There definitely is not enough talent in the OL, and it is showing when we go up against the better conference teams, and even when we played Penn St.

There is some talent at WR, but I agree this is more of a development issue, so I hope that with Harsin here, next year is the year that I hope guys like Kobe and JJohnson and Capers, maybe Malcom Johnson start to being better WRs.

Except for Jackson(who is not that gifted but plays fairly tough at WR), the rest are young and coming back, so there will be some depth if we get some of the WRs we really want and have committed AND I can see taking over some of our current starters, if they can enroll early and get a head start on Harsin's offense.

[IronMan70 3,277]

43 minutes ago, gr82b4au said:

Is Auburn football facing a talent issue?

Yes

38 minutes ago, im4aual said:

Yes

What they said.

 

[steeleagle 2,945]

2 minutes ago, SRBautigerfan said:

Adding TX and OK to the mix won't make it any easier on Auburn.  When do they join?

If they honor their Big 12 conference contracts, then it would be 2025 before they join.

Now if they break their contract and pay the penalty which is fairly high, then can join as early as 2022. 

I can see maybe at the earliest 2023 if they can get the scheduling taken care of, I think.

[woodford 3,682]

1 hour ago, bigbird said:

Agreed.

 

What we have isn't a talent issue, it's a development problem. The development deficit for CBH to fix is a lot larger at specific groups than many wanted to admit the past few years. 

 

Why are we suffering at WR? Because the last 3 years we only used 3-4 receivers. Zero depth built.

Why are we suffering on the OL? Because we failed to secure any tackles and have zero depth to create any competition.

Why is the QB position behind? Because there has been zero depth there to create competition to push each other. When there was, Gus chose tFr Bo over Malik Willis. Wrong and bad choice.

Agreed. We lack certain types of talent but we aren’t depleted as many people think. My meme was mainly a joke. It’s definitely a development issue. That’s why I’m not too terribly worried about next year. A couple tweaks + new talent should make us more competitive. 
 

That being said, we need to at least have a top 15 class. 

[IronMan70 3,277]

Just now, steeleagle said:

If they honor their Big 12 conference contracts, then it would be 2025 before they join.

Now if they break their contract and pay the penalty which is fairly high, then can join as early as 2022. 

I can see maybe at the earliest 2023 if they can get the scheduling taken care of, I think.

Since it is inevitable, it might even be in the interest of the B12 to move things along, renegotiate the exit fees, and get their 4 new members into the conference. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

7 minutes ago, IronMan70 said:

Since it is inevitable, it might even be in the interest of the B12 to move things along, renegotiate the exit fees, and get their 4 new members into the conference. 

The expectation around Austin is 2023

[autiger88 3,777]

[bigbird 60,597]

9 minutes ago, autiger88 said:

Hilarious movie.

[W.E.D 11,070]

1 hour ago, steeleagle said:

Its actually both, depending on the position group you are talking about.

There definitely is not enough talent in the OL, and it is showing when we go up against the better conference teams, and even when we played Penn St.

There is some talent at WR, but I agree this is more of a development issue, so I hope that with Harsin here, next year is the year that I hope guys like Kobe and JJohnson and Capers, maybe Malcom Johnson start to being better WRs.

Except for Jackson(who is not that gifted but plays fairly tough at WR), the rest are young and coming back, so there will be some depth if we get some of the WRs we really want and have committed AND I can see taking over some of our current starters, if they can enroll early and get a head start on Harsin's offense.

Agree.  I think it's both.  We have near zero talent in the OL room.  Maybe 1 or 2 guys at best out of the group.  Not sure any amount of Development is going to help there.

WR is a good example of the other side, where I think we have some talent that is either young or hasn't been developed.  

We have to fix both sides of the equation.  We need talent, need to develop it...and more importantly stop letting it walk out the door.  I'd have to imagine we've lost more highly ranked players than any other team