Jerry Falwell Jr Finally Admits That His Christian Persona Was Always A Lie. LongTime Leader of The Evangelical Christian Right Says He Doesn't Even Believe In The Church or Organized Religion.

[DKW 86 7,440]

2 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

If, as is the popular view of some in society, gender is a social construct, then society can socially construct their own morality.  It’s not that far of a leap.

If society can claim suddenly 57 genders without any factual evidence, then they can and will create any morality to fit any situation. If facts are only facts until someone dismisses them, then something as squishy as morals are even more subject to random reassignment.

Edited February 7, 2022 by DKW 86

[CoffeeTiger 5,169]

31 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

If society can claim suddenly 57 genders without any factual evidence, then they can and will create any morality to fit any situation. If facts are only facts until someone dismisses them, then something as squishy and morals are even more subject to random reassignment.

 

But Religion/Christianity has never stopped someone from shifting morals to justify wrongdoing or persecution. 

 

War, persecution, torture, etc has all been committed throughout human history by people and societies that were vast majority Christian and identified very heavily with Religion. That never stopped them from coopting Religion or twisting words and meaning to justify whatever it was that they wanted to do at the time. 

 

Religion doesn't 'Make' people moral or good, and not being religious doesn't make a person bad or immoral. 

[DKW 86 7,440]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

But Religion/Christianity has never stopped someone from shifting morals to justify wrongdoing or persecution. 

War, persecution, torture, etc has all been committed throughout human history by people and societies that were vast majority Christian and identified very heavily with Religion. That never stopped them from coopting Religion or twisting words and meaning to justify whatever it was that they wanted to do at the time. 

Religion doesn't 'Make' people moral or good, and not being religious doesn't make a person bad or immoral. 

I detest Religion because it is everything you said.

[I_M4_AU 7,986]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

But Religion/Christianity has never stopped someone from shifting morals to justify wrongdoing or persecution. 

 

War, persecution, torture, etc has all been committed throughout human history by people and societies that were vast majority Christian and identified very heavily with Religion. That never stopped them from coopting Religion or twisting words and meaning to justify whatever it was that they wanted to do at the time. 

 

Religion doesn't 'Make' people moral or good, and not being religious doesn't make a person bad or immoral. 

This is why most governments are not theocratic.  There are a few middle eastern governments that are; Iran as an example.  You have a dislike for Christianity, but other religions have misinterpreted their teachings to their justification just like Christians.

Wars are fought to gain economic advantage in most cases IMO.  The motivation to get the masses to fight, in the past, have been religious (the Crusades as an example).  The Vietnam War and Korean War were to defeat communism, not necessarily religious beliefs.  Iran was WMD.  Afghanistan was harboring terrorists and 9-11.

Any further wars could very well be under the guise of human rights.  I think we have moved away from the religion as a motivation for the masses to take up arms.  JMO.

 

[Grumps 3,704]

6 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

I don't  agree with the idea that without Christianity then nobody would know what was good or bad, right or wrong, etc.  

 

Did anyone say that? I don't agree with the idea either.

[Grumps 3,704]

3 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

But Religion/Christianity has never stopped someone from shifting morals to justify wrongdoing or persecution. 

 

War, persecution, torture, etc has all been committed throughout human history by people and societies that were vast majority Christian and identified very heavily with Religion. That never stopped them from coopting Religion or twisting words and meaning to justify whatever it was that they wanted to do at the time. 

 

Religion doesn't 'Make' people moral or good, and not being religious doesn't make a person bad or immoral. 

I agree with almost every word of this. I don't know much about religions other than Christianity, but the purpose of Christianity has never been to stop people from shifting morals to justify wrongdoing or persecution.

So do you think that any moral law exists?

[PUB78 1,362]

On 2/2/2022 at 9:01 PM, jj3jordan said:

Agreed. Not major players.

Are you saying that Jerry Falwell and the Moral Majority were not a major force in America during the late 1970’s till the late 1980’s? If so, check your facts again.

[PUB78 1,362]

On 2/3/2022 at 12:33 AM, AU9377 said:

I know several preacher's kids that turned out just fine.  Their dads also happen to be great pastors. I know others that had problems due to their strict upbringing.  It all depends on the men that raised them.

Agree with you 100%. As a PK, I can tell you that the overwhelming number of PK were fine, kind , moral and well adjusted people. The few that weren’t was mainly due to the strictness of their raising, resulting in rebellion, or for attention since their parents were too busy with their ministry.

[AU9377 5,035]

7 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

 

But Religion/Christianity has never stopped someone from shifting morals to justify wrongdoing or persecution. 

 

War, persecution, torture, etc has all been committed throughout human history by people and societies that were vast majority Christian and identified very heavily with Religion. That never stopped them from coopting Religion or twisting words and meaning to justify whatever it was that they wanted to do at the time. 

 

Religion doesn't 'Make' people moral or good, and not being religious doesn't make a person bad or immoral. 

This is true.  However, I do believe that there are positive things that come from children being raised in some sort of organized religion.  People need an identity of sorts.  No jokes about sexual identity needed, that is not what I mean.

Children need a moral compass.  That doesn't mean that they should be taught to fear hell and damnation.  That means they need examples of compassion, forgiveness and doing for others.  An extended network of people is also beneficial.  Frankly, they need to understand how to sit in a sanctuary quietly and listen to someone speak without their phone being on. 

There are biblical stories passed down for centuries that teach lessons about being a good Samaritan, what faith is, David & Goliath, and on and on that they aren't getting from watching Pokeman.    There are now generations of young people growing up without having ever experienced small things like singing Christmas Carols or a youth group raising money by washing cars or selling donuts.

I know that this sounds trivial and some of it is. I just think it is important to remember that we cannot expect to have a community of adults that thrive like many before them have thrived if we aren't putting into them some of the same ingredients that we poured into the generations before them.

 

I can usually tell the difference between young kids that are routinely involved in family settings that include church attendance or community organized events

[pensacolatiger 313]

21 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

This will shock you, but a lot of Democrats and even progressives are religious too, they just don't make it the centerpiece of the political discourse and don't try to force their religion down the throat's of everyone else through laws that are based on their religious beliefs. 

I’m not so sure you can believe in God without recognizing the value of human life.  But modern day Democrats are Communists, and Communists have never regarded human life

[CoffeeTiger 5,169]

2 hours ago, pensacolatiger said:

I’m not so sure you can believe in God without recognizing the value of human life.  But modern day Democrats are Communists, and Communists have never regarded human life

That's not true at all. Of course you can 'believe' in God, but still reject the sanctity of life and choose to live in sin. Belief has nothing to do with your morals or 'goodness'.  People who believe in God but don't recognize the value of life generally either acknowledge they'll go to hell when they die and are at peace with it or they believe in their own little 'denomination' of Christianity or interpret parts of the Bible to justify their beliefs to themselves.  

 

Modern day democrats are not communist. That's just a fact. The vast majority of the Democratic party doesn't espouse or identify with any major tenants of Communism. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,169]

15 hours ago, Grumps said:

I agree with almost every word of this. I don't know much about religions other than Christianity, but the purpose of Christianity has never been to stop people from shifting morals to justify wrongdoing or persecution.

So do you think that any moral law exists?

Yes, moral law is what the society at the time deems appropriate. 

It can be based on and influenced by many things, including but not limited to a Religion. 

Iam4au a page back was making the argument that Religion is the sole reason humans have morals at all. which I believe is false. 

[homersapien 11,440]

20 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

If, as is the popular view of some in society, gender is a social construct, then society can socially construct their own morality.  It’s not that far of a leap.

But gender is not a "social construct".  The biology is just more complicated that most people assume.

Ironically, morality - on the other hand - largely is a social construct.

[DKW 86 7,440]

4 hours ago, pensacolatiger said:

I’m not so sure you can believe in God without recognizing the value of human life.  But modern day Democrats are Communists, and Communists have never regarded human life

[AU9377 5,035]

5 hours ago, pensacolatiger said:

I’m not so sure you can believe in God without recognizing the value of human life.  But modern day Democrats are Communists, and Communists have never regarded human life

I refuse to believe that you are truly ignorant enough to believe that statement is true.

[pensacolatiger 313]

I refuse to believe that someone that claims to be a Christian would be ok with murder.  We can do this all day

[homersapien 11,440]

3 hours ago, AU9377 said:

I refuse to believe that you are truly ignorant enough to believe that statement is true.

When people tell you who they are, believe them.

[Grumps 3,704]

22 hours ago, AU9377 said:

This is true.  However, I do believe that there are positive things that come from children being raised in some sort of organized religion.  People need an identity of sorts.  No jokes about sexual identity needed, that is not what I mean.

Children need a moral compass.  That doesn't mean that they should be taught to fear hell and damnation.  That means they need examples of compassion, forgiveness and doing for others.  An extended network of people is also beneficial.  Frankly, they need to understand how to sit in a sanctuary quietly and listen to someone speak without their phone being on. 

There are biblical stories passed down for centuries that teach lessons about being a good Samaritan, what faith is, David & Goliath, and on and on that they aren't getting from watching Pokeman.    There are now generations of young people growing up without having ever experienced small things like singing Christmas Carols or a youth group raising money by washing cars or selling donuts.

I know that this sounds trivial and some of it is. I just think it is important to remember that we cannot expect to have a community of adults that thrive like many before them have thrived if we aren't putting into them some of the same ingredients that we poured into the generations before them.

 

I can usually tell the difference between young kids that are routinely involved in family settings that include church attendance or community organized events

I agree with you that there are good things that can come from church-going, if God didn't exist. Just don't think that ANYTHING you said above has anything to do with the purpose of going to Church since God does exist.

[Grumps 3,704]

11 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Yes, moral law is what the society at the time deems appropriate. 

It can be based on and influenced by many things, including but not limited to a Religion. 

Iam4au a page back was making the argument that Religion is the sole reason humans have morals at all. which I believe is false. 

So you don't think that there are any absolute moral laws, just whatever society says is moral? Interesting. I guess that makes sense if the whole purpose of humanity is self-gratification.

[AUFAN78 3,926]

7 hours ago, homersapien said:

When people tell you who they are, believe them.

How many years you been doing this? Trust me, we believe you.

[AUFAN78 3,926]

15 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

The vast majority of the Democratic party doesn't espouse or identify with any major tenants of Communism. 

Won't say vast, but weaponizing the FBI, NSA and even the Capital Police for politics sounds a lot like China or Russia. I'll go some with many turning a blind eye. Work for you?

[AU9377 5,035]

4 hours ago, Grumps said:

I agree with you that there are good things that can come from church-going, if God didn't exist. Just don't think that ANYTHING you said above has anything to do with the purpose of going to Church since God does exist.

At no point did I say that. 

[AU9377 5,035]

5 hours ago, Grumps said:

So you don't think that there are any absolute moral laws, just whatever society says is moral? Interesting. I guess that makes sense if the whole purpose of humanity is self-gratification.

You don't think Christianity has evolved to more closely align with society over the past 500 years?

[pensacolatiger 313]

16 hours ago, homersapien said:

When people tell you who they are, believe them.

My name is homer, I don’t feel nice about myself so I passive aggressively snap at others.  

[homersapien 11,440]

2 hours ago, pensacolatiger said:

My name is homer, I don’t feel nice about myself so I passive aggressively snap at others.  

 

I actually accept that you think "all Democrats are Communists", and you characterize that as a "passive aggressive snap"? 

(I also accept you don't see the irony in this.  )